The 'Guiding' or 'Scout' Planet

I have a question about "The Planet of Oriental Appearance" aka "Guiding Planet" aka "Scout Planet". I read Zane Stein saying that.....

"All of these terms refer to the first planet to rise right before the Sun."

Because I have a tendency to make things much more difficult than they really are (Mercury Rx natally) how do I figure out which planet rose before my Sun? Natally I have =

Mercury 17 Sag 7 rx
Sun 1 Cap 2
Juno 3 Cap6
Chiron 4 Cap 25

Is it Mercury? Thanks for any help with this everyone. And could you also give an example using your, or anothers, chart to show how this is done?

Lapis,

I have red Zane Stein also.
Your Scout Planet is mercury

Mine would be cheiron.
He involves all the planets and sees cheiron as a planet too.Else it would be mercury for me too.

A question for me too,according to an astrological rapport,my practical director would be mercury.What does that mean and where can i find some information about it on the net?

Well, I know without a doubt that mine's the moon, since I'm a Balsamic child born on day 28 of the moon's cycle

I admit though that the Sun was very close to being in a different position in my stellium, but I checked my natal chart and the moon would still be considered the first astrological body rising before the Sun.

This is a very interesting discussion...what is the significance of one's scouter planet, anyway?

Aquarian Maverick

At another forum (bob marks) AquariusMoon left some great links to info about this subject. I'll add those links here.

www.khaldea.com/planets/oriental_intro.shtml

And because Mercury is often the "Guide" planet due to it never getting too far from the sun, I'll add this link about Mercury.

www.khaldea.com/planets/merc_type.shtml

I learned from this that my "Guiding" planet Mercury, which is retrograde natally, is "Promethian - Retrograde". More things to learn!

johan,

You've probably already read this but I'll add a link just in case.

www.zanestein.com/chiron_a.htm

Thanks for the article, Lapis! I don't have Mercury as my guiding planet, but it was a still a very interesting read...I have an Epimethean-Direct Mercury, by the way

I was a bit surprised at the naming of these phases although, technically speaking, it should make a lot of sense. I know that Prometheus means forethought and Epimetheus means afterthought...but from what I've read of Greek mythology, the nature of the Epimethean phases seems to correspond more with Prometheus, who always deliberated the consequences of his actions, than with Epimetheus, who tended to act on impulse alone.

Though perhaps it is typical of a person with an Epimethean-Direct Mercury to think in such a matter...

If your Mercury type is Epimethean-Direct, you probably have a practical, objective and analytical mind leading you to act on the basis of facts and past experience rather than on hunches and gut-feelings. Your well-organized mental faculties enable you to manage people and run things. But in doing so, you may need to keep an open mind and avoid rigid thought patterns.

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Aquarian Maverick

This is interesting.

I have Gemini ASC so Mercury is ruler of my chart. But my guiding planet turned out to be Jupiter which happens to be the ruler of the DSC. I don't know how to interpret this but it must mean something. Both Mercury and Jupiter are both directly and finally disposited by my Leo Sun. Head rush! Head rush! Too much info all of a sudden!

Lapis,

Yes,i knew the site of Zane Stein thanks to this forum.But in the other links you provided i had the answer to my question Practical director is the guiding planet.It is the term this astrologer Meyer uses.

Meyer uses the nine planets possible for guidingplanet and stein also uses cheiron with it.

Lapis said

I learned from this that my "Guiding" planet Mercury, which is retrograde natally, is "Promethian - Retrograde". More things to learn!

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My new theory regarding retrograde planets is that the retrograde motion represents lack of some sort that would cause one to focus on addressing that lack in a dramatic way. For instance, in Lapis's case, retrograde Mercury could give one a sense of a lack of information - so much so that one might demand that information from whatever sources are available - traditional or non-traditional such as in a psychic manner.

Given the position is in Sag and very close to the MC could cast this into a spiritualist role of psychic reader.

I personally have Uranus retrograde in Leo in the 6th house which is expressed as an early feeling of a lack of freedom to my myself in the workplace. This is still going on but I've made great strides in creating a freer workplace for myself in that I've been able to work from home 10 of the last 11 years.

I also have Pluto retrograde in Virgo in the 7th house which would account for a feeling of powerlessness in relationships especially in dealing with the drier Virgo aspects one would expect: being prim and proper, clean, detailed, restricted.yada yada yada. This has played itself out by me learning how to own my own power without taking someone else's and getting more comfortable in my own skin.

Back to topic, I have Saturn as my oriental planet - direct conjunct the MC in Sag which encourages me to become some kind of spiritual authority or a good lawyer (which I might need if I abuse the power of the former).

I find it interesting to see how these planetary anomalies - oriental, retrograde and others continue to deepen one's picture of the subject at hand.

Kite

Hey Kite, I have retrograde Uranus and Pluto, too! Maybe you can teach me how you learned to deal with these energies

I find it interesting to see how these planetary anomalies - oriental, retrograde and others continue to deepen one's picture of the subject at hand.

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Yes indeed!

Aquarian Maverick

P.S. Sorry to get off topic again, but what's an oriental planet? Is it simply another name for a guiding planet?

AM said:

P.S. Sorry to get off topic again, but what's an oriental planet? Is it simply another name for a guiding planet?

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Yes - the same thing. BTW you only have Pluto retrograde not Uranus from what I can see.

Your Pluto is retrograde in Scorpio and either in 9 or 10 depending on the house system so I am going to say 9 for your challenges and 10 for resolution. I would expect Pluto 9 in Scorpio would give you a sense of powerlessness in dealing with the instituitional educational system as it exists today in it's controlling obsessive focus on turning out materialistic trivia experts who want to play house (your yod from 2 and 4 focused on Pluto in 9).

I see you as being the maverick that can shake up the education system to create an alternative paradigm like Steiner with the Waldorf schools that would focus on developing a much more expanded education that can enrich vs. brainwash. This would be the 10th house resolution I would see. But this is dependent on you overcoming such yourself which I believe you are already doing through your own self-directed educational experience.

I would encourage you to do some research in this area..Waldorf and other education mavericks such as Alfred North Whitehead.

Kite

Yes - the same thing. BTW you only have Pluto retrograde not Uranus from what I can see.

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I always forget to mention that my natal Uranus is actually stationary about to go retrograde...sorry for the confusion.

As I posted on the Your Astrology Weekly Screen Name Forum, I find it fascinating that my ruling planet Uranus is located in the house of Aquarius (the eleventh house) no matter which house system I use. Not only this, but I have read that the influence of a planet on one's chart is intensified if that planet is stationary! Aquarian Maverick, indeed :mrgreen:

I would encourage you to do some research in this area..Waldorf and other education mavericks such as Alfred North Whitehead.

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Thanks for the suggestion! I'll check it out.

Aquarian Maverick

I have a question about "The Planet of Oriental Appearance" aka "Guiding Planet" aka "Scout Planet". I read Zane Stein saying that.....

"All of these terms refer to the first planet to rise right before the Sun."

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If I'm interpreting this correctly - my Scout planet is Neptune in Scorpio. How could that be interpreted?

Thanks!

I stumbled upon this thread again, and realized I never received a reply to my post a few months ago. I guess what I'm really wanting to know is what does an "oriental" or "scout" planet do - what does it signify? how does it work?

Also, I would still like to know if I did mine properly. My chart is attached, if anyone would like to verify if I've properly identified my scout planet.

Hi Freedomlover

I think I looked at this a while ago, I posted something on it. But it was a looong time ago. I think it was the planet that is closest behind the Sun. Mine was Mars. It's the first planet ahead of the Sun in a clockwise direction. I have never found it to be significant in astrology interpretation but it is a factor you can look at and see if it works.

I think your guiding planet is Neptune.

Hi Freedomlover

I think I looked at this a while ago, I posted something on it. But it was a looong time ago. I think it was the planet that is closest behind the Sun. Mine was Mars. It's the first planet ahead of the Sun in a clockwise direction. I have never found it to be significant in astrology interpretation but it is a factor you can look at and see if it works.

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I think your guiding planet is Neptune.

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Thanks, Shining Ray. I was wondering if I'd looked at it right. I got Neptune, too. So, you don't know what they're good for, either? Is there something they are "supposed" to be good for? I don't know what to look at in terms of even checking to see if it works, because I don't know what they're supposed to signify.

Anybody have any experience with these?

freedomlover said:

...Anybody have any experience with these?

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Imagine your Sun is General Custer on the day of the Battle of the Little Bighorn........He sends out (well-aspected) Scout Neptune, who reports back to him "uneasy feelings about the terrain ahead".......whilst my (afflicted) Scout Neptune would be shouting "let's get up that thar hill, boys!"

So, the scout planet colours the way the sun views events.......using reliable intuition in your case and jumping to erroneous conclusions in mine.

EJ

Imagine your Sun is General Custer on the day of the Battle of the Little Bighorn........He sends out (well-aspected) Scout Neptune, who reports back to him "uneasy feelings about the terrain ahead".......whilst my (afflicted) Scout Neptune would be shouting "let's get up that thar hill, boys!"

So, the scout planet colours the way the sun views events.......using reliable intuition in your case and jumping to erroneous conclusions in mine.

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You are so good at explaining things, EJ! Although I have jumped to alot of erroneous conclusions before I developed any sense of reliable intuition. I'm still sifting through some previous erroneous conclusions. I'd say your Scout Neptune is entirely more trustworthy than you give him credit for!

Hello

This is a link for a website on guiding planets.

http://http://www.khaldea.com/planets/oriental_intro.shtml


My guiding planet is Uranus, that explains it all for me

"Uranus Guiding Planet

You are the sort of person who wants to revolutionize — or at least update and improve — whatever you touch. If you also possess insight and communication skills, you have the makings of a successful innovator. For you, it might not even matter much what you are innovating, discovering or revolutionizing, as long as you are effecting change! You may best meet problems or difficulties by seeking ingenious new solutions.
You have a knack for drawing criticism from conservative people who resent change, who like things just the way they are. That goes with the territory, but at times it might be productive to"................

"As Guiding Planet, Uranus lets you know what needs to be shaken up; what’s out-moded and in the way, especially in the social and political sphere. More than most others, Uranus Guiding Planet people are often dissatisfied with themselves, their place in the world, and with general conditions. This is because Uranus lets them know in some definite yet unexplained way that things could be better, yet it doesn’t necessarily give much insight into how to manage things "after the revolution." ..............................

"The natal horoscope of Beat writer and author of Dharma Bums and On the Road, Jack Kerouac, features Uranus Oriental, rising eleven degrees before a Piscean Sun. Uranus is near the Descendant and opposite the Moon, which is near the Ascendant, and squares from both planets to Mars at the nadir complete a well-defined T-Square formation.
As mentioned earlier, the Guiding Planet doesn’t tell the whole story, and one needs to tune into the chart as a whole and how the Oriental Planet fits into the whole picture. Regardless of how great and wonderful our potential"

[mod edit - overly long quote reduced]

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In ancient times, these "scout" planets were referred to as "Spear-bearers of the SUN'; older material regarding this subject are in Valens and, to a certain extent, in Paulus Alexandrianus (see, for example, Greenbaum's "Late Classical Astrology)
I personally have never investigated this concept in a practical sense.