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  #501  
Unread 05-18-2020, 10:46 PM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Well, Gene Ray appears to be a tropicalist working with the same old, retrograde, sidereal Ages as nearly everyone else. He has a different sidereal Age-length by about 6 less years than usual for some reason, and is using Regulus to locate the sidereal Signs, which gives a much earlier start to the Ages than the standard range of Ayanamsas used by actual siderealists.

His Age-indicator is the standard one for the sidereal Zodiac, the Vernal Point. Terry MacKinnell, on the other hand, has a verydifferent Ayanamsa than Gene's, which would give about a 700 years-later start to the sidereal Age of Aquarius than Gene's 2012, if Terry was using the VP itself as the sidereal Age-indicator. Instead, Terry is moving 15 degrees ahead of the VP, and therefore ends up with the sidereal Aquarian Age beginning about 550 years before Gene's start-year of 2012. And, about 1000 years before the start-year of the other siderealists.

I added my eternal "admiration" for all 3 of you in my last post and the reasons why.

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  #502  
Unread 05-18-2020, 10:49 PM
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Its been a few years now, he use to be on astro.com forum too after the Astrologer's Forum (his own site), but he closed it years ago I think....


He may have passed on for all I know....like I said it's been awhile. I just recalled how stuck he was on that chart and had it located in Gabon? I think....the Asc. was Regulus?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabon


Ref:
He and I use to "butt heads" on his original forum he started, because he ONLY allowed (I have his chart btw, he's Leo-Regulas ASC )

the EQUAL House charts to be seen or posted
usually. I liked Placidius and still do. He hated that. (eye roll here)



A very "fixed thinker" But I liked him enough, except for that little bonus. Regulus Rising, Virgo Sun must be why.
Speaking out of school here.... But even so, I admire people who put that much time and effort into one subject like the Age of Aquarius, (you, him & even Terry McK (Oz) None of you apparently have my Gemini Rising (in Sidereal), scattered ness to contend with.
Not sure if you're using both tropical and sidereal charts for yourself? Is "Leomoon" tropical or sidereal, for example?
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Unread 05-18-2020, 10:55 PM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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Not sure if you're using both tropical and sidereal charts for yourself? Is "Leomoon" tropical or sidereal, for example?


I identify well with both, very well....and always recalled EC (Cayce) saying both charts count, as one is showing us our "in between stages" when the soul moves on and incorporates (much like LOKA explained by certain Vedic astrologer mainly Brahmin per Raman)
incorporated the "energies" that last lifetime afforded them via their own cause and effect. The "effect part" I guess, is Loka, in the in between stages and can be seen by the sidereal Sun-Moon & Ascendant.


Loka is a Sanskrit term meaning "world" or "a particular division of the universe.". The most frequent division of the universe in Hinduism is the tri-loka: Earth, heaven and atmosphere.
What is Loka? - Definition from Yogapedia

www.yogapedia.com/definition/5578/loka





Moon in Leo is widely conj. "Regulus" 2nd house, so means, in Virgo Sidereal chart.


So both charts are important.


I use my Tropical Cancer Rising ordinarily, as that is how others will see and experience me. Cancer Rising in the 21st degree, (a self-undoing) degree btw.
I wear my heart on my sleeve - and get into trouble a lot doing so......


My dear husband (a Libra Sun-Scorpio ASC in the Tropical manner) use to say, "If we are cut do we not bleed?"....That explains well, - I BLEED emotions a lot.


But I also WRITE and TALK a lot, per Gemini Rising. Thats why I write books in order to have an outlet for emotions too.

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  #504  
Unread 05-18-2020, 11:14 PM
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Smile Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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I identify well with both, very well....and always recalled EC (Cayce) saying both charts count, as one is showing us our "in between stages" when the soul moves on and incorporates (much like LOKA explained by certain Vedic astrologer mainly Brahmin per Raman)
incorporated the "energies" that last lifetime afforded them via their own cause and effect. The "effect part" I guess, is Loka, in the in between stages and can be seen by the sidereal Sun-Moon & Ascendant.


Loka is a Sanskrit term meaning "world" or "a particular division of the universe.". The most frequent division of the universe in Hinduism is the tri-loka: Earth, heaven and atmosphere.
What is Loka? - Definition from Yogapedia

www.yogapedia.com/definition/5578/loka





Moon in Leo is widely conj. "Regulus" 2nd house, so means, in Virgo Sidereal chart.


So both charts are important.


I use my Tropical Cancer Rising ordinarily, as that is how others will see and experience me. Cancer Rising in the 21st degree, (a self-undoing) degree btw.
I wear my heart on my sleeve - and get into trouble a lot doing so......


My dear husband (a Libra Sun-Scorpio ASC in the Tropical manner) use to say, "If we are cut do we not bleed?"....That explains well, - I BLEED emotions a lot.


But I also WRITE and TALK a lot, per Gemini Rising. Thats why I write books in order to have an outlet for emotions too.
I'm impressed that you write books!

Wouldn't sidereal Virgo be tropical Libra? But, Vedic is different when it comes to the Moon. For example, I have Moon in mid tropical Aquarius, which would be Cap in Western siderealism. But, in Vedic, it stays in Aqua.

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Unread 05-18-2020, 11:51 PM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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Let me know please, if Gene Ray's thesis is along the same lines as your own?



https://astropost.blogspot.com/2008/...-gene-ray.html
I don't know GeneRay, unless it is the guy that also went by Ray and getting banned with semi regularity.

I will do some reading and come back.
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Unread 05-19-2020, 12:03 AM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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I don't know GeneRay, unless it is the guy that also went by Ray and getting banned with semi regularity.

I will do some reading and come back.



No Opal, he was widely respected by most...if not all. Not controversial like me!


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  #507  
Unread 05-19-2020, 12:08 AM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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No Opal, he was widely respected by most...if not all. Not controversial like me!


I will read your link after supper, talk soon.
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Unread 05-19-2020, 12:24 AM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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ref:
I'm impressed that you write books!
Wouldn't sidereal Virgo be tropical Libra? But, Vedic is different when it comes to the Moon. For example, I have Moon in mid tropical Aquarius, which would be Cap in Western siderealism. But, in Vedic, it stays in Aqua.
It all started as a way and means to channel the excess emotional energy I was having. Like a rolling stone, down a hill I suppose from there. That doesn't mean they are all "quality" either. Some are primary astrology, others like "Regulus & the Generals", a study I had worked on for some time, always having been interested in Civil War history & movies of the Civil War (like upcoming "Grant" on the History Channel will be) Very likely, I lived back then.This was back when even Darkstar (Jamie) hadn't yet started his Fixed Star blog which has certainly grown quite a bit, and he thought it was a good idea when I explained my idea of Regulus and leadership, so I continued it into a book of accumulated charts on Generals.


This was also before Bernadette Brady decided that perhaps she'd write about the fixed stars in relation to using them in conjunctions and oppositions....back then she only promoted Parans.
So a lot has changed since then.


My most pent-up emotions were put into a biography about my daughter and her death about 3-4 yrs after she passed.



I enjoyed very much writing my Essenes book ("Edgar Cayce on Biblical Reincarnations and the Essenes"- quite a mouthful! (the research that went into it,etc) and since about Edgar Cayce and his info, not everyone's cup o'tea (not at all a scholarly book) I'm currently done (did it 5 years ago), but reincarnated my book for Terrorism, as I didn't see another out there since I put it aside 4-5 yrs ago on Astrology & Terrorism ...A LOT more had to be added since then. I hope my editor, (husband) is up to the task, he complains constantly about my writing, and "disorganization". ....But then again, he did on the Essenes and others too. We actually have exactly opposite charts AND our Sun' squares each other's.



I've since slowed down quite a bit. I used up my energy I suppose, in between forum posts.


Vedic Sidereal Chart is here:


You were correct David, (good eye) - I was thinking in the reverse again.- IF it were a Virgo Moon, I'd NEVER have so many errors from sloppy writing. NEVER!

Actually Moon stays in Leo at 02°
This was during my 1st replacement knee surgery (another will be done in 2 days this Wed.) Keep me in your good thoughts....guys!
SN will be over my 6th house BML & Mercury (trop) for the new chart operation on other knee. "going back"



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Unread 05-19-2020, 12:30 AM
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Smile Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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Wouldn't sidereal Virgo be tropical Libra? But, Vedic is different when it comes to the Moon. For example, I have Moon in mid tropical Aquarius, which would be Cap in Western siderealism. But, in Vedic, it stays in Aqua.



It all started as a way and means to channel the excess emotional energy I was having. Like a rolling stone, down a hill I suppose from there. That doesn't mean they are all "quality" either. Some are primary astrology, others like "Regulus & the Generals", a study I had worked on for some time, always having been interested in Civil War history & movies of the Civil War (like upcoming "Grant" on the History Channel will be) Very likely, I lived back then.This was back when even Darkstar (Jamie) hadn't yet started his Fixed Star blog which has certainly grown quite a bit, and he thought it was a good idea when I explained my idea of Regulus and leadership, so I continued it into a book of accumulated charts on Generals.


This was also before Bernadette Brady decided that perhaps she'd write about the fixed stars in relation to using them in conjunctions and oppositions....back then she only promoted Parans.
So a lot has changed since then.


My most emotions were put into a biography about my daughter and her death about 3-4 yrs after she passed.



I enjoyed very much writing my Essenes book ("Edgar Cayce on Biblical Reincarnations and the Essenes"- quite a mouthful! (the research that went into it,etc) and since about Edgar Cayce and his info, not everyone's cup o'tea (not at all a scholarly book) I'm currently done (did it 5 years ago), but reincarnated my book for Terrorism, as I didn't see another out there since I put it aside 4-5 yrs ago on Astrology & Terrorism ...A LOT more had to be added since then. I hope my editor, (husband) is up to the task, he complains constantly about my writing, and "disorganization". ....But then again, he did on the Essenes and others too. We actually have exactly opposite charts AND our Sun' squares each other's.



I've since slowed down quite a bit. I used up my energy I suppose, in between forum posts.


Vedic Sidereal Chart is here:


You were correct David, (good eye) - I was thinking in the reverse again.-

Actually Moon stays in Leo at 02°
This was during my 1st replacement knee surgery (another will be done in 2 days this Wed.) Keep me in your good thoughts....guys!
SN will be over my 6th house BML & Mercury (trop) for the new chart operation on other knee. "going back"


You'll be jumping rope and playing soccer again in no time!
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Unread 05-19-2020, 12:33 AM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

You'll be jumping rope and playing soccer again in no time!





Ha Ha Ha, haven't had that much fun since grade school! I know I can't bend at all now. Need a back operation says my doctor, but that "ain't gonna happen" No way, no how!


This should help, perhaps even straightening up could help the 70 plus year scoliosis.


http://www.internationalastrologers....ical_aries.htm
From anatomical medical degrees for ALL signs:

For my Sun & Mars (17:55- 19°Capricorn) 6th -

(sometimes, it may be your Mars or even Mercury)
Capricorn 17
Left Knotty Protruberance


Capricorn 18
Right Ligament Knee


Capricorn 19
Left Ligament Knee


and yes, I even have the "left knotty protruberance" lol - I asked the surgeon about it and he said, "its just water on the knee making the adjustment for lack of ?) "

Last edited by leomoon; 05-19-2020 at 12:39 AM. Reason: add link
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Unread 05-19-2020, 02:47 AM
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Leomoon, your Fagan-Bradley chart is a good illustration of how the sidereal Sign locations really matter, regarding the sidereal Ages....Using Aldebaran to center sidereal Taurus moves a tropical placement 25 degrees back, sidereally. So, with a tropical placement at 27 degrees Leo, it moves back to 2 degrees Leo. Most of the Ayanamsas move it back less, in the 23 to 24 degree range.

Now, consider what the Ayanamsas do when it comes to the start-year of the Age of Aquarius:

With the Fagan-Bradley chart for example, the VP (the Sun's position at the beginning of Spring in the Northern hemisphere), which is the standard Age-indicator for the sidereal Ages, won't ingress sidereal Aquarius until 2376.

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Unread 05-19-2020, 02:56 AM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

Its probably a F-B only by chance, not by design from me...very likely. Using the Sidereal not as a Vedic chart but western sidereal prompted it I suppose at the time if anything at all...


From this link:
https://www.astro.com/astrology/in_ayanamsha_e.htm
* Fagan/Bradley Ayanamsha

Quote:
Originally called the "Hypsomatic ayanamsha" by the Irish American astrologer Cyril Fagan (1896-1970), it was introduced in a book titled Zodiacs Old and New in 1950. Fagan placed the fixed star Spica at 29° Virgo based on his research into the origins of the exaltation degrees (hypsomata). The American astrologer Donald A. Bradley (1925-1974, aka Garth Allen) corrected the position of this star to about 29°06 Virgo in 1957 after he investigated hundreds of Sidereal lunar and solar ingresses into the cardinal signs that preceded major mundane events such as volcanic eruptions and mining disasters. With this ayanamsha, which he dubbed the "Synetic" vernal point or SVP, the important stars Aldebaran and Antares are located at almost exactly 15° Taurus and Scorpio respectively.
The Fagan/Bradley zodiac is very close to the zodiac that was used by Babylonian astrologers in the Hellenistic period. Statistical examinations of astronomical cuneiform tablets by Peter Huber in 1958 have provided an ayanamsha that differs by less than an arc minute from the Fagan/Bradley ayanamsha. However, according to a more recent investigation by John P. Britton (2010), the difference could still amount to several arc minutes.
note: The mentioning of Antares and Aldebaran in the tropical are: Antares (Anti-Ares) 09Sagittarius and Aldebaran is 09Gemini (cj. my N.N. 11th hs.)

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Unread 05-19-2020, 03:48 AM
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I identify well with both, very well....and always recalled EC (Cayce) saying both charts count, as one is showing us our "in between stages" when the soul moves on and incorporates (much like LOKA explained by certain Vedic astrologer mainly Brahmin per Raman)
incorporated the "energies" that last lifetime afforded them via their own cause and effect. The "effect part" I guess, is Loka, in the in between stages and can be seen by the sidereal Sun-Moon & Ascendant.


Loka is a Sanskrit term meaning "world" or "a particular division of the universe.". The most frequent division of the universe in Hinduism is the tri-loka: Earth, heaven and atmosphere.
What is Loka? - Definition from Yogapedia

www.yogapedia.com/definition/5578/loka





Moon in Leo is widely conj. "Regulus" 2nd house, so means, in Virgo Sidereal chart.


So both charts are important.


I use my Tropical Cancer Rising ordinarily, as that is how others will see and experience me. Cancer Rising in the 21st degree, (a self-undoing) degree btw.
I wear my heart on my sleeve - and get into trouble a lot doing so......


My dear husband (a Libra Sun-Scorpio ASC in the Tropical manner) use to say, "If we are cut do we not bleed?"....That explains well, - I BLEED emotions a lot.


But I also WRITE and TALK a lot, per Gemini Rising. Thats why I write books in order to have an outlet for emotions too.
Hey, do I remind you of your husband at all? Libra Sun/Scorpio rising

I have said that.
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Unread 05-19-2020, 03:53 AM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

Interesting, Gene Ray has the Age of Pisces entering well before.

I am used to all numbers of precession adding up to 9 though.
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Unread 05-19-2020, 04:11 AM
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Now, consider a sidereal Aquarian Age start-year deliberately chosen by a tropical astrologer, who believes the sidereal Zodiac is for "Ages only". The tropicalist usually chooses based on an event that appears to suggest the beginning of the sidereal Age of Pisces, and has an Aquarian Age start-year to match, which looks good--2012, for example, the Mayan Calendar date for the point of Winter Solstice to enter the constellation now known as Scorpio. Gene Ray chose 2012, which turns the sidereal Zodiac about 7 degrees compared to Fagan-Bradley. This affects all the placements. So, in your chart, that would move your Moon solidly into sidereal Cancer, at about 25 degrees.

For Gene, the only thing that mattered was an Aquarian Age start-year that suited his opinion--never mind the changes to the sidereal positions of Sun, Moon, Ascendant, Planets, Nodes, and Houses.

This is because Gene had the tropical Zodiac for reading Charts, on the one hand, and the sidereal for choosing the start-year of the Aquarian Age, on the other. That's been standard practice for tropical astrologers for the last 100+ years, since the Aquarian Age concept was first introduced into sidereal astrology.

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Unread 05-19-2020, 04:25 AM
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Hmm....a good name for the way tropicalists choose the start-year of the sidereal Age of Aquarius could be, "Rectification of the Sidereal Ages".
This accounts for the myriad start-dates chosen by hundreds of tropical astrologers.
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Unread 05-19-2020, 04:53 AM
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Hmm....a good name for the way tropicalists choose the start-year of the sidereal Age of Aquarius could be, "Rectification of the Sidereal Ages".
This accounts for the myriad start-dates chosen by hundreds of tropical astrologers.
😄😄😄 I love it! Thanks for the smile!
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Unread 05-19-2020, 04:56 AM
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Now, consider a sidereal Aquarian Age start-year deliberately chosen by a tropical astrologer, who believes the sidereal Zodiac is for "Ages only". The tropicalist usually chooses based on an event that appears to suggest the beginning of the sidereal Age of Pisces, and has an Aquarian Age start-year to match, which looks good--2012, for example, the Mayan Calendar date for the point of Winter Solstice to enter the constellation now known as Scorpio. Gene Ray chose 2012, which turns the sidereal Zodiac about 7 degrees compared to Fagan-Bradley. This affects all the placements. So, in your chart, that would move your Moon solidly into sidereal Cancer, at about 25 degrees.

For Gene, the only thing that mattered was an Aquarian Age start-year that suited his opinion--never mind the changes to the sidereal positions of Sun, Moon, Ascendant, Planets, Nodes, and Houses.

This is because Gene had the tropical Zodiac for reading Charts, on the one hand, and the sidereal for choosing the start-year of the Aquarian Age, on the other. That's been standard practice for tropical astrologers for the last 100+ years, since the Aquarian Age concept was first introduced into sidereal astrology.
Tropical, what would you pick for an age indicator, solstice or equinox, which one and why?

Sidereal I usually see winter solstice.
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Unread 05-19-2020, 06:10 AM
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Tropical, what would you pick for an age indicator, solstice or equinox, which one and why?

Sidereal I usually see winter solstice.
Winter solstice point (0 degrees tropical Capricorn) is approaching sidereal Scorpio, at the same time the Spring Equinox point (0 degrees tropical Aries) is approaching sidereal Aquarius.

The Solstice and Equinox points are unavailable for transiting the tropical Zodiac, since they locate its Sign divisions themselves.

For these tropical Ages, I'm using a constructed Age-interval, or "Age-window", of 30 degrees, the exact length of a constructed tropical Sign-division, centered on the center-line of the Earth's elliptical orbit. It progresses in and out of convergence with one tropical Sign at a time, due to Earth's wobble, which causes what is known as "Precession of the Perihelion". The Age-window's leading point in the direction of motion is the "Age-indicator", and when convergence is complete with one Sign, the Age-indicator ingresses the next Sign and signals the beginning of the next Age.

Astronomers refer to this transit relative to the Seasons as "Precession of the Perihelion", measured each year at the time that the Earth is closest to the Sun, even though Progression of the Perihelion is a better description, since it's direct-motion.

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Unread 05-19-2020, 01:52 PM
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In 2149, the steadily Direct "Mean-setting" (average-location) of the Age-Window, at 1+ minute of arc per year, will finally coincide with tropical Capricorn. The 1750 year Convergent Age of tropical Capricorn will end, and the Convergent Age of tropical Aquarius will begin. This will be when Uranian rulership becomes dominant, and conditions commensurate with the Aquarian Age will rapidly develop.

The True-setting (actual yearly position) of the Age-window, which randomly fluctuates +/- nearly 2 degrees from one year to the next, will first ingress tropical Aquarius in 2047.

In 2033, the steadily Direct Mean-setting of the Age-window will have reached 28 degrees tropical Capricorn. And, that same year, the fluctuating True-setting will be less than half a degree away from Convergence. So, a new Age-degree generation of children will be born starting in the year 2033.

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Smile Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

The 30 degree Age-window is necessary for a full understanding of each Age, and the sidereal Ages require it also.

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Unread 05-19-2020, 02:32 PM
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Smile Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

For anyone unfamiliar with the phenomena of "True" and "Mean" settings, both the Lunar Nodes and Black Lilith have them as well.
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

Opal: I always remind him, he has the "evil degree" of Scorpio Rising, (per Charubel), lol.
17-18° (I'd add 19th too), as they were described as the "most cursed degree of the most accursed sign".




Bottom line however, is not so bad. It simply means, a block of "black & white" nothing grey ...and quite honestly, he is like that. Its either one way or another it seems...Also has Moon in the last deg. of Cancer, which helps, because that's my Tropical Rising sign. When its the Moon however, it behaves a whole lot differently in that the Moon in Cancer simply cannot get out of its depth if depressed without a lot of effort and time for the feelings to subside. (very sad to see) ...I think you have Capricorn Moon!


from my Fixed Stars Kindle:
18-19° Scorpio- Serpentinis
Quote:
Charubel the esoteric astrologer called it, “the most cursed degree of the most accursed sign” in his writings on the critical degrees saying “no good may come from this”. What I have found is that it tends to incline an individual towards black and white thinking. Their focus and perspective are harmed because of it, unless they have other things in their chart to enlarge their scope of understanding yet even then it may take effort to overcome. Another mention of it is in volume 2 by March & McEvers towards the end of the book, “North Scale – brilliant mind, the accursed degree 18 Scorpio 59.”
Charubel aka John Thomas of Wales, circa 1826, had his Ascendant in Scorpio 13° and was very sensitive towards the sign’s degrees. He was born at 7 A.M. with his Sun at 16° Scorpio, conjunct the Ascendant.

Last edited by leomoon; 05-19-2020 at 08:02 PM.
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Smile Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

For me, the cool thing about "Scorpio Rising" is, I include the Egyptian Phoenix as a significant version of the 8th Sign. So, that would be the Phoenix arising, reborn, from the ashes.
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Smile Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

The Phoenix is at the height of wisdom and knowledge when it accepts its fate, and willingly dies in fire, knowing it will be reborn after giving up its former life. When it arises reborn, it remembers nothing. It's starting over, primal and wild, and eager to experience whatever its new life has to offer.
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