Aspects work in both directions

Hello---
I notice that in synastry or composite readings, the aspect is often read in on direction only---for example, his Saturn squaring my Moon, or the composite Venus oppose Neptune.
Yet I think it's important to look at both directions of any aspect. For example, his Sat square my Moon, but also my Moon square his Saturn. So he has a teaching, limiting, serious, cold effect on my emotions, and also my emotions and nurturance/mothering has a challenging, straining effect on his ambition and sense of responsibility.
Composite Neptune oppose Venus --- lack of reality, deception blocks romance and affection, but also the creativity and romantic aspect of the relationship is not in synch with the dreams and spiritual side of the relationship. Is it that some people focus mostly on the outer planet's effect on the inner planet?
Any thoughts?

Melisa

Hi
I notice that in a natal chart, people often focus on only one direction of the aspect (i.e. Mars square Neptune = the person's actions and sexuality are dreamy, passive and unrealistic).. The focus is in one direction (the effect of the outer planet on the inner planet). Doesn't the aspect work both ways? Doesn't the person's spirituality and dreaminess (neptune) get a sense of tension/challenge---square from their sexuality/aggressiveness (Mars)?
Do people look in both directions?

Thanks
Melisa

The way to do synastry is this:

Take a chart blank (or a large printout copy of your birth chart) and draw in your planets. Then draw the other person's planets on the outside of the circle (at the appropriate points). When you read it you will say, "His Pluto ____my ____. HIs Neptune _____ my ____....etc.

Then you take a copy of HIS chart and put YOUR planets on the outside. And you do the same thing...MY Pluto _____his Venus....or whatever.

YOu go through EACH planet to each planet. Some won't make aspects, others will. Write them down.
Aspects from Heavy planets to personal planets obviously are more widely affected.

But as important are the house cusp rulers in this mix. For instance, if the ruler of your 7th house is poorly aspected from his Uranus, Neptune, Saturn...etc....that's not lucky.
Same with if the ruler of your 5th is opposed or squared by Pluto or Neptune...

OR.....very important: where the planets of the other person fall BY HOUSE in the chart of the other person. So if 5 of his planets fall in your 7th and 8th houses it means one thing. If they fall in the 11th or 12th house, for instance, it means something else.

This is a language of symbols. Each position, each aspect, each sign means something. When all is delineated you get a LOT of information.

BUT THE FIRST RULE OF COMPATIBILITY IS THIS: In order for a functional relationship to occur, each of the parties must be able to BE a functional partner.
If one or the other is NOT marriage material, no aspects from the other person will MAKE them into one.
LIN

Lin said:

The way to do synastry is this:

Take a chart blank (or a large printout copy of your birth chart) and draw in your planets. Then draw the other person's planets on the outside of the circle (at the appropriate points). When you read it you will say, "His Pluto ____my ____. HIs Neptune _____ my ____....etc.

Then you take a copy of HIS chart and put YOUR planets on the outside. And you do the same thing...MY Pluto _____his Venus....or whatever.

YOu go through EACH planet to each planet. Some won't make aspects, others will. Write them down.
Aspects from Heavy planets to personal planets obviously are more widely affected.

But as important are the house cusp rulers in this mix. For instance, if the ruler of your 7th house is poorly aspected from his Uranus, Neptune, Saturn...etc....that's not lucky.
Same with if the ruler of your 5th is opposed or squared by Pluto or Neptune...

OR.....very important: where the planets of the other person fall BY HOUSE in the chart of the other person. So if 5 of his planets fall in your 7th and 8th houses it means one thing. If they fall in the 11th or 12th house, for instance, it means something else.

This is a language of symbols. Each position, each aspect, each sign means something. When all is delineated you get a LOT of information.

BUT THE FIRST RULE OF COMPATIBILITY IS THIS: In order for a functional relationship to occur, each of the parties must be able to BE a functional partner.
If one or the other is NOT marriage material, no aspects from the other person will MAKE them into one.
LIN

Click to expand...

Whether a marriage occurs is due to planets in the 7th house of both or either one of the partners and other planets aspecting that 7th house. Composite charts are much better to see what the dynamics of THE relationship are. For family relations where there are children involved then the 4th house needs to be looked at. THat would show influences regardless of whether the couple is actually legally married or not.

A synastry chart is studied to determine the compatibility factors (or lack of) between the individual planets of each subject.

A composite is an additional chart used to gauge the "tone" or "issues" of the "partnership" at any given time during the time the 2 are together ....as you said...either married or not.

They both help judge the relationship, but the synastry can determine if there's enough compatibility to create a real and functional partnership. All the positives and negatives can be seen through this study.

And there is one more way to work on dealing with this issue of relationship: one can place the planets of person A on the composite chart to see if the planets of that individual support or undermine any particular "area" in the life of the partnership.

And then it can be done with person B....place his/her planets on the composite to see if there is undue pressure - or - possibly great support in any particular area of that chart.

They are lengthy but very useful tools....synastry study and composite analysis.
LIN

melisa said:

Hello---
I notice that in synastry or composite readings, the aspect is often read in on direction only---for example, his Saturn squaring my Moon, or the composite Venus oppose Neptune.
Yet I think it's important to look at both directions of any aspect. For example, his Sat square my Moon, but also my Moon square his Saturn. So he has a teaching, limiting, serious, cold effect on my emotions, and also my emotions and nurturance/mothering has a challenging, straining effect on his ambition and sense of responsibility.
Composite Neptune oppose Venus --- lack of reality, deception blocks romance and affection, but also the creativity and romantic aspect of the relationship is not in synch with the dreams and spiritual side of the relationship. Is it that some people focus mostly on the outer planet's effect on the inner planet?
Any thoughts?


Melisa

Click to expand...

I think that people say "Saturn Square Moon" instead of "Moon Square Saturn" because Saturn is the slower planet.

Claire wrote
Whether a marriage occurs is due to planets in the 7th house of both or either one of the partners and other planets aspecting that 7th house. Composite charts are much better to see what the dynamics of THE relationship are.

----Interesting. Most recent partner has Sun in my 7th, and we each have Mars conjunct the other's 7th---sounds pretty strong.

---Composite charts---do you have a sense of what the 7th in a composite means? Is it about the couples' relationship with the outside world, or with each other?

Thank u
Melisa

Krewster wrote
For synastry, as you implied a Moon 90 Sat dynamic will make even the Sat-bearing person feel more Saturnian than normal because the Moon-bearing person’s behavior wakes up his/her Sat imparting a heavier feeling. Is that extendable beyond Sat...?...(e.g., if my Uran lies 90 from another’s Merc, I will inevitably try to change his/her thinking style but haven't noticed feeling more Uranian in so doing).
Seems like it becomes vaguer and vaguer (from the heavy planet person's view) to self-label as feeling more Neptunian or Plutonian because of the influence of a counterparty's personal planet.

-----I see, but I'm not sure why it would be vaguer---- I feel a Moon square Saturn in synastry would definitely affect each of us---his Sat would be awakened, as you wrote, but he would also be lending a Saturn touch to me in the area of my emotions. And my Moon emotions and nurturance would be awakened, and I would be touching him with a bit of Moon essence, which he would feel on his end....this would feel different than if his Saturn squares my Mars---my anger would be aroused and restricted, and I would be activating his Saturn with a bit of flame-throwing and activity! He'd "feel" Saturn and Mars (Sat from him, Mars from me).
In natals too, I am unclear on why, with a Mars-Neptune opposition, it would mean my Mars is clouded over and softened by the Neptune, but it wouldn't work both ways, and have my "Neptune" (dreams, restful activities, artistic creativie abilities) activated by my Mars?

Thanks
Melisa

Perhaps what works for you at the moment in astro-self-labelling is more valid than what a majority of us believe but can’t prove...

Mars oppose Neptune = the person's actions and sexuality are affected by Neptune---dreamy, passive and unrealistic . Doesn't the aspect work both ways? Doesn't the person's spirituality and dreaminess (neptune) get a sense of balance or opposition from their sexuality/aggressiveness (Mars)? In practical terms, they might be an atheist, or angry at religion (So Neptune affects Mars, but Mars also affects Neptune)--another example can be that the person is loud, vocal and actively involved (Mars) in protesting (oppose) organized religion or substance abuse (Neptune).

Krewster wrote
the Moon person is not woken up but rather depressed – because when trying to express need, the other guy’s Sat is woken up to squash the need, with the Sat person slightly resenting that his Sat was woken up and trying to quash the behavior that woke it up). If you’ve not done it yet, then go find someone with Sat within 1.5-ish degrees of an oppo or square to your Moon or vice versa and then let’s talk again...

=====I have located a person with Saturn square my Moon-----as you wrote, I was wrong, the Moon person (me) is not woken up but depressed (or limited) by the Sat person's need to squash the need---yet in return, I feel that my moon has a softening and nurturing effect (and he resents this, as you wrote) on his sense of duty and work issues---so the aspect works both ways for us. We also have his Sat squaring my Mars, and again I feel the apsect works both ways----He limits and cools off my actions andurges: my activity and anger upset him in the areas of work and duty, and the tension from my Mars triggers him to cool off and isolate.
We also have a further out aspect---his Venus oppose my Pluto----and there is a mutual sense of passion and obsession---his Venus affection for me touches my psychological and obsessive features, and those in turn influence his feelings of romance and affection....so I feel the Pluto, and also "lend" the Pluto flavor to his Venus. If we had Pluto oppose Mercury, or Pluto oppose something else, I feel the pluto energy would be exchanged with that planet (not in just one direction, with the outer planet giving energy, but also receiving energy from the other person's inner planet)

Melisa

I don't think these methods are mutualy exclusive.

But....I have to say...if I had to choose only ONE method it would be synastry.

However, I feel more confident If I do both. Symbols tend to repeat when something is 'true.' If Venus, let's say, is debilitated in one or both natals, it will probably be problematic in the composite. The one confirms the other .
LIN

Thank you Lin
Any reason you prefer synastry? I feel that the inner planets (Venus) affect outer planets (Saturn) in synastry as well as in composite....as well as the outer ones Saturn influencing the inner planets (venus).
I'm told that the composite tells us about the relationship itself, whereas the synastry is more about the give and take mutual energy between the people.

Thanks
Melisa

I prefer synastry FIRST....but if the couple are actually in a relationship (seeing each other exclusively - more or less) I also do the composite.

I believe VERY strongly that the outer planets are VITAL in judging synastry. I never like Saturn square or conjunct moon....not in natals or synastry or composite. It speaks of restricting emotions or causing the more emotional person to "over compensate." It's definitely a 'red flag.'
And there are many red flags in synastry. Sometimes these take a few months to become "issues" ....sometimes a year or more. But all "compatibility time bombs (see Barbara DeANgelis book, "Are you the one for me?") will eventually explode.
These explosions are not caused by personal planets.

Personal planet issues are often things one can compromise about....or cooperate with...it's the Pluto square Venus', or the Uranus opp. Moon or Venus.....or Neptune conjunct Venus or Saturn....or the T-squares or grand crosses formed by the synastry. these are big red flags.

Naturally there has to be some compatibility with the inner planets....of course...that has a lot to do with chemistry and comfort; but....looking at a chart with lots of nice aspects between inner planets and ignoring the heavy influences which represent deep "issues" within one or the other partners psyches is dangerous.

And statistics back this up. Many people after a couple of years find that the big, hidden or ignored issues are now present ....and it's like this person is a stranger or has morphed into someone else. When really these "time bombs" were present all along...just not immediate and visible in day to day activity.
LIN

Julian said:

I think that people say "Saturn Square Moon" instead of "Moon Square Saturn" because Saturn is the slower planet.

Click to expand...

It is true that the bigger or slower planet has the power when dealing with a personal planet like the Moon. The Saturn person is the one dictating the situation there. Same with say Pluto opposing Venus, the Pluto person is the one doing the manipulating, the controlling or disappearing etc.

melisa said:

Claire wrote
Whether a marriage occurs is due to planets in the 7th house of both or either one of the partners and other planets aspecting that 7th house. Composite charts are much better to see what the dynamics of THE relationship are.

----Interesting. Most recent partner has Sun in my 7th, and we each have Mars conjunct the other's 7th---sounds pretty strong.

---Composite charts---do you have a sense of what the 7th in a composite means? Is it about the couples' relationship with the outside world, or with each other?

Thank u
Melisa

Click to expand...

Composite 7th house and natal 7th house is about one to one relationships in general. It can be a business partnership or a marriage but usually involving committed legal contracts. 7th house deals with counselling, mediation, negotiation and striving for compromise and equal exchange. It also deals with our long term best friend and hopefully that is what our marriage partner also is.

. So it would deal also with divorce, separations, setttlements and lower legal courts proceedings as opposed to the Supreme court of the 9th house for instance.

The composite chart is the blending of two person's energies and the aspects are tighter than with a natal chart. I would not do anymore than 3 degrees for any aspect. Typically there are fewer aspects to look at and the composite will show the dynamics and reason for being together. It is also how others perceive you in that relationship in general.

Hi
Thanks Claire19---who wrote
It is true that the bigger or slower planet has the power when dealing with a personal planet like the Moon. The Saturn person is the one dictating the situation there. Same with say Pluto opposing Venus, the Pluto person is the one doing the manipulating, the controlling or disappearing etc.
-----Yes, that is true, but isn't it also true that the Moon person has an "influence" on the Sat person...the Sat person may have more power, but I think that if there is a synastry or composite (we had both) square between them:
-----The Saturn person restricts, delays and inhibits the Moon person's emotions. And also keeps things slow and honest. In return though, the Moon person would cause some emotional tension within the Sat person, and the nurturance and mothering (m00n) would cause tension (square) the other person's family obligations, committment, and work (Saturn)? In other words, they each feel the mutual square?
Re: your reply re 7th house in composites, it sounds like the 7th house is a showcase for seeing how the couple interacts with each other in the partnership and legal aspects you described...so it's not an indication of how they interact with the outside world as a couple, it's how they interact with each other? I was always confused about that one.
Thank you
Melisa

Claire,
If you understand how tiny and moon is and how vulnerable....and you realize how powerul and intimidating Saturn is...
OR taking any heavy planet and squaring or opposing it to a 'personal planet' in synastry you will see for yourself that the heavier the planet the more 'weight' (figuratively) it has in that particular synastry pattern.

GRANTED: there may be extenuating circumstances: for instance, if the moon, let's say, is in a grand trine or makes a couple of sextiles to OTHER heavy planets it might take on some more power. But I have to say that in most synastry studies the more heavy planets negatively impact personal ones the more power the owner of the heavy planets has. In most synastries you will see one or the other person has more of some type of power. Sometimes it's finacial, sometimes emotional, sometimes professional....there are different types of 'power.'

It is always better to actually SEE an example rather than to speculate.
There are some good books on synastry.
I learned from 'doing' them for decades. But that doesn't mean you can't learn this from books (and your OWN research, of course.)
LIN