will Stephen and I work in the same show this year?

One of my students is on her own for nearly a year now. The young man she has been with left her last summer.
She is a very good dancer, specificly in Tap Dance, and got offered a job in a show in the Westend. It would be a great step in her career and i didn't understand why she still hesitated to sign the contract.
Now she told me she expects from rumors her former boyfriend to be in the cast as well - he finished his education last year, moved to another city. She heard he was with a new girl, and now doesn't want to run into the new couple. she was scared it could hurt her too much.
I don't want my student to back up from this chance.
she asked me to put a chart for her.

She is Mercury, in 10th, in his own regency. Strong.
The boy is Jupiter in 11th, ruled by Sun.
Moon is in the 5th, ruled by Saturn, exile, weak.
There is an applying sextile between Mercury and Jupiter.
By dignities Mercury receives Jupiter in different ways.
Jupiter does not receive Mercury nor Moon.
I would say they will work in the same show. The aspect will perfect in 4,6 units, - using months this would be the time when rehearsals would start.
Would you say the dignities show that my student will regret to sign the contract? In a way that she is still vulnerable and will run into troubles?


There is a second chart, - she herself thought after we had talked about it all and came up with a clear question "Will i end up being intimate with him again?"
I put this chart as well in here, - it might be interesting how the charts relate.

Now she is Venus (slightly an early ASC) again in 10th house, freshly moved into Cancer, so ruled by the Moon.
He is Mars in exile, in the 9th, in Taurus, ruled by her, Venus. weak.
Moon is in 4th house, exile, ruled by Saturn. weak.
There is an applying trine between Mars and Moon, in 3,5 units, - if this would be months it could be the time of the musical pre studies for the show.
There is mutual dignity between Mars/Moon and also between Mars/Venus.
I think 10th house for Venus shows, that she will do this job.
Mars is shortly before changing signs, - he moves into Gemini.
South node and Uranus in the 7th, so i think, even if they would come together again it won't last.

I'd love to hear your thoughts about this.

oleanna said:

She is Mercury, in 10th, in his own regency. Strong.
The boy is Jupiter in 11th, ruled by Sun.
Moon is in the 5th, ruled by Saturn, exile, weak.
There is an applying sextile between Mercury and Jupiter.
By dignities Mercury receives Jupiter in different ways.
Jupiter does not receive Mercury nor Moon.
I would say they will work in the same show. The aspect will perfect in 4,6 units, - using months this would be the time when rehearsals would start.
Would you say the dignities show that my student will regret to sign the contract? In a way that she is still vulnerable and will run into troubles?



I'd love to hear your thoughts about this.

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Because I've been seeing Mercury and Jupiter as significators in a number of recent charts, I can tell you that while there is an applying aspect between them, it does not perfect before Mercury goes retrograde on May 19th.
So this looks to me like a no answer to the question of their working together in the same show.

The reception between them indicates that he/Jupiter does not receive her well, she being in the sign of his detriment. So this suggests that the new relationship he is in is perhaps solidified, or that simply he has no further interest in the querent.

Moon as her co-sig lacks dignity, in its detriment, and, as indicator of unfolding of the matter, applies to an aspect with malefic Mars in its detriment.

I am not seeing a favorable going forward in this matter.

Please do keep us posted and I am wishing well to all involved.

oleanna said:

There is a second chart, - she herself thought after we had talked about it all and came up with a clear question "Will i end up being intimate with him again?"
I put this chart as well in here, - it might be interesting how the charts relate.

Now she is Venus (slightly an early ASC) again in 10th house, freshly moved into Cancer, so ruled by the Moon.
He is Mars in exile, in the 9th, in Taurus, ruled by her, Venus. weak.
Moon is in 4th house, exile, ruled by Saturn. weak.
There is an applying trine between Mars and Moon, in 3,5 units, - if this would be months it could be the time of the musical pre studies for the show.
There is mutual dignity between Mars/Moon and also between Mars/Venus.
I think 10th house for Venus shows, that she will do this job.
Mars is shortly before changing signs, - he moves into Gemini.
South node and Uranus in the 7th, so i think, even if they would come together again it won't last.

I'd love to hear your thoughts about this.

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The delineation of the first chart illustrates the adverse reception between them, from him towards her. It is reiterated more strongly in the second chart as she/Venus is in the sign of his/Mars fall, while Mars is also in its detriment. Lots of negative indicators from him towards her. So we come to the question of which I take to be "Will we have sex again?"

The two primary significators, Venus and Mars, are not able to see/regard each other, since they are in adjacent signs. So not only is there no aspect, but also, they really cannot see the other's point of view or presence clearly.

It is hard to ignore the applying trine from her co-sig, extremely debilitated Moon in Cap, to extremely debilitated Mars in Taurus. And also that these two negative significators are bound together by adverse, exaggerated mutual reception. So I can see yes to the question. But the background circumstances are so very unappealing and I think quite detrimental. I would urge her strongly to not have this kind of involvement with him as it looks to me that it would hurt her to her very core.

Thank you so much for your time and thoughts! -
I feel a little confused, - although i get most of what you describe and see some of your points, - but somehow it seems as if i define the dignities diffrently. - i f.e. thought Mars in Taurus would mean he's still interested in her, - so i wouldn't come to the statement he doesn't see her.
Do i have a complete wrong understanding of dignities?
This might easily be given, since i started only a year ago to have an interest in horary, and although i took a workshop, i still feel as if i'm lacking a lot of knowledge - one reason why i am in this forum and try to learn more...

I have to admit, your answer makes me a bit frustrated since i see the chance to really be successful for my student with the offered job. And it's not just "some kind of work" it's a well known director, a famous theatre, good money and high reputation. I hate to think that her private trouble will be in the way....

oleanna said:

Thank you so much for your time and thoughts!

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You are quite welcome, and please know that my heart is with you as I appreciate your aspirations as teacher of dance for a student. So I hope I have not been disrespectful of that in any way.

oleanna said:

I feel a little confused, - although i get most of what you describe and see some of your points, - but somehow it seems as if i define the dignities diffrently. -

i f.e. thought Mars in Taurus would mean he's still interested in her, - so i wouldn't come to the statement he doesn't see her.

Do i have a complete wrong understanding of dignities?

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Let me take your last comment first: "Do i have a complete wrong understanding of dignities?"
[Just so we can keep the vocabulary clear, we are speaking of reception now, rather than dignities.] There has been another recent discussion on the contrasting ways to interpret reception, so, no, I would not say you have a complete wrong understanding of reception.
The way I have used it here [delineating his Mars in Taurus not receiving well her significator in the sign of Mars' fall] is the most common traditional interpretation. And carrying this most common traditional delineation further, she/Venus still receives him well, since he/Mars is in the sign she rules. This all derives strictly from the most common interpretation of traditional astrology on reception. And it really seems to fit the circumstances pretty well..?

" i f.e. thought Mars in Taurus would mean he's still interested in her, - so i wouldn't come to the statement he doesn't see her."

Inner experience of relationship is subtle and multi-faceted. His "not regarding or seeing her" derives from the aspectual relationship between the significators. It is information about the question in addition to that provided to us by the reception. Signs that are side-by-side not only do not aspect each other, as described in traditional astrology literature, but also do not see or regard each other. I think this is relevant to this circumstance, not only for him being unable to see her as she truly is, but also her inability to see him clearly because of the breakup and who knows what else.

Two planets could have positive reception, be motivated towards each other and still be unable to see each other clearly because if this aspectual relationship between the significators. I do not see someone being interested but unable to see the object of interest clearly as being contradictory or paradoxical, but really rather common, just part of the human condition And perhaps it is amplified here in this case because of the breakup, her not wanting to see the new girlfriend, his not wanting to deal with any of that either.

And actually the content of the second question reveals to you the continuing vulnerability that your student still experiences in relation to this man.

I really hope I am wrong here for the professional reasons you point out [I have been wrong many times before!]. I, too, hope this dancer can rise to the occasion. She's a star, dignified Mercury at top of the first chart and Venus elevated at the top of the other chart. But she is also Moon in its detriment in both charts. Right now, neither of the charts are favorable to me. I do hope others may offer their interpretations. And please let me know if you have other questions or comments about mine.

PS I would add that there is another "no" answer to the first question. That would be that she performs and he does not....

IleneK said:

You are quite welcome, and please know that my heart is with you as I appreciate your aspirations as teacher of dance for a student. So I hope I have not been disrespectful of that in any way.

..............


She's a star, dignified Mercury at top of the first chart and Venus elevated at the top of the other chart. But she is also Moon in its detriment in both charts. Right now, neither of the charts are favorable to me. I do hope others may offer their interpretations. And please let me know if you have other questions or comments about mine.

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Oh no, you haven't been disrespectful, - i rather would say you spend understanding, care and comfort. Thanks for that! -
Teaching these kids and helping them to finally make a living out of something that in most cases only last for 15, 20 years, is a strange thing in itself.
Then, sometimes, they become more than just students, and this young woman is very special and i would love to see her reaching out for the aims she deserves.
- somehow you met my intuition with your last lines. I sense how she is sort of "split". On one side the star, even a sort of leader (she appears very strong and independant) - and then the moon-side, weak, vulnerable and sort of broken.
As it is in the arts, i believe we need both sides to be so specificly talented and creative as she is, - but of course, when it comes to normal life failure fills the picture.
Since i know the young man and have seen them together for a while i wouldn't be surprised if he still would be in her "ban", missing her spirits.
So the idea that Mars ruled by Venus would show him being still wanting her, was not unnatural for me.
And it even made sense for me that she wouldn't see him nor he would see her, - since i think he would keep himself unseen for reasons of pride and shame, - while she wouldn't get closer for not to see the truth about him.
I have to add that i don't get the impression she's still loving this man. It's more that she doesn't want to see his banal side.
She had a tough last year going through a real growing, and sort of defends her time with him as something that has been worth the pain. He has a charming way and she's very serious and i think she is scared that his way could win her back, like in a game, while she is not really able to play such games...
I saw some of my students struggle so much with love and life that they finally missed the chances in their profession, - and believe me, there aren't too much great offers... some careers are over before they even started.
I hope so or so, all will develop to the best - and i will update as soon as i know what happens. -
And I'd be also interested if there are different interpretations! -- i understand that i have a lot to learn!
Thank you deeply!

Is there any additional comment on the two charts?


The audition for the boys will be next week, so beginning of June we should know if the ex boyfriend is as well chosen to be in the cast...
I will of course update this.

Thanks to all.

Just a short update on my thread:
The boy has been chosen to be part of the cast in the same dance show as my student. But he refused taking the job. He cancelled last week.
We don't know why, and my student has mixed feelings about it, although it seems as if she is more happy than sad about it.
Maybe a relief, to know she can work and focus just on that, not disturbed by any "romantic nonsense" as she herself called it yesterday.

Dear Ilenek, thanks a lot for your help with this all! It gave me deeper insight in my student's problems!

Thank you so much for this update. I am very glad that your student may have this opportunity to perform.