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Degree Symbols Discuss your experiences with all symbol systems based on astrological degrees in the chart (i.e., Sabian Symbols, Kozminsky Symbols, etc.): the symbols for the transiting Sun and Moon and the events of your life, the symbols of your natal chart...


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Unread 02-28-2018, 10:54 PM
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The secrets of the zodiac degrees

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Unread 03-02-2018, 04:41 AM
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

In oldtime astrology (Greek times) each degree had what is called a "monomoiria" connection, either with a planet or with a zodiacal sign; also, up to Renaissance times, each degree could be classified as either "bright", "dark" or "mixed" in quality, in addition to the "celestial topography" of each degree (which I have reproduced in my "Elevated & Pitted Degrees" thread here on AW)
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Unread 03-02-2018, 10:11 AM
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

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In oldtime astrology (Greek times) each degree had what is called a "monomoiria" connection, either with a planet or with a zodiacal sign; also, up to Renaissance times, each degree could be classified as either "bright", "dark" or "mixed" in quality, in addition to the "celestial topography" of each degree (which I have reproduced in my "Elevated & Pitted Degrees" thread here on AW)
I use your elevated/pitted degree in all my charts, and they work very well. Im also aware of the degrees Azimene/Anaretic...

I was just never aware of these zodiacal degrees up until now, so im now incorporating these too, as i find these ones even more fascinating.
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Unread 03-08-2018, 08:37 PM
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

This is stretching the orientation of the subject of this particular sub-forum quite a bit.
This is not specifically about degree symbols but rather association of particular degrees with House placement in relation to Signs as they are oriented to the Tropical Zodiac.

I, personally, have no faith in Signs as they are oriented to the Tropical Zodiac.
I only use the Tropical Zodiac as to when and where what specific Sabian Symbol is to be consulted.

The Signs are in effect only as they are found to presently be in the Sidereal... imho, course.
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Unread 03-08-2018, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
This is stretching the orientation of the subject of this particular sub-forum quite a bit.
This is not specifically about degree symbols but rather association of particular degrees with House placement in relation to Signs as they are oriented to the Tropical Zodiac.

I, personally, have no faith in Signs as they are oriented to the Tropical Zodiac.
I only use the Tropical Zodiac as to when and where what specific Sabian Symbol is to be consulted.

The Signs are in effect only as they are found to presently be in the Sidereal... imho, course.
I agree with you. My sidereal chart speaks much more to me I'd say according to it I'm a mercurial Scorpio, it's at a critical degree was the fist planet to rise in my life is angular and Conj. The AC loosely. It's in Scorpio .06 away from being exactly sextile to mars, parallel to the sun and the leader of a Concentration of energy in Scorpio. My tropical zodiac my Mercury is debilitated bc of the sun and weak bc it's in the 12th house sag.
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

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Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
This is stretching the orientation of the subject of this particular sub-forum quite a bit.
This is not specifically about degree symbols but rather association of particular degrees with House placement in relation to Signs as they are oriented to the Tropical Zodiac.

I, personally, have no faith in Signs as they are oriented to the Tropical Zodiac.
I only use the Tropical Zodiac as to when and where what specific Sabian Symbol is to be consulted.

The Signs are in effect only as they are found to presently be in the Sidereal... imho, course.
I tend to agree with your general position about sidereal. May I ask then, why you use the tropical zodiac when consulting the Sabian Symbols?
Thank you.
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Unread 03-09-2018, 02:10 PM
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

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I tend to agree with your general position about sidereal. May I ask then, why you use the tropical zodiac when consulting the Sabian Symbols?
Thank you.
I only use the Tropical Zodiac for the reason that they are permanently affixed to the Spring Equinox and thus correspond exactly to the degrees of the Tropical Zodiac as Dane Rudhyar and Marc Edmond Jones have them listed as.
The Spring Equinox will always correspond with Aries 01* of the Tropical Zodiac as will the Vernal Equinox correspond with Libra 01*, the Summer Solstice with Cancer 01* and the Winter Solstice with Capricorn 01*.
Of course these coordinates are relevant to the Northern Hemisphere. If you are in the Southern Hemisphere the Fall Equinox corresponds with Aries 01* and so on.
Thus these precepts obviously do not emanate from the constellations. My theory is that they emanate from our own Sun.
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Unread 03-10-2018, 08:49 PM
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

I should have added to my post above that I have a second theory that they are administered by the angelic.
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Unread 10-10-2018, 12:33 PM
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

Interesting, do you suppose then that the tropical and sidereal degree for each point and planet degree will be saying the same thing albeit in a different language?
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Unread 10-23-2018, 11:07 AM
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

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Interesting, do you suppose then that the tropical and sidereal degree for each point and planet degree will be saying the same thing albeit in a different language?
There's only one set of degree symbols to my knowledge and those are the Sabian Symbols which aren't of the degrees but rather in attendance, or one might say, attendant to the degrees, the 360 that make up the earths' orbit around our Sun, they just happen to correspond with the Tropical Zodiac.
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Unread 01-23-2019, 08:08 AM
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

Chrysalis, have you ever looked at the book "Degrees of the Zodiac" by Esther V. Leinbach?
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Unread 01-23-2019, 02:14 PM
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

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There's only one set of degree symbols to my knowledge and those are the Sabian Symbols which aren't of the degrees but rather in attendance, or one might say, attendant to the degrees, the 360 that make up the earths' orbit around our Sun, they just happen to correspond with the Tropical Zodiac.
Pierce, out of curiosity, have you ever used Inside Degrees by Ellias Lonsdale?

Here's a link: https://aquaorfire.net/astrology/ins...e_degrees.html

To date, I found his descriptions to resonate the most with me on a touching, emotional, and instinctive level, when all the other ones somehow falls short in some ways. I just don't vibe with the others.

Perhaps we all respond to different vibrations? There is an opinion that different degrees symbols and descriptions are simply sides and facets to the same puzzle, and one ought to consider more than one, for a comprehensive effect. To date, I am aware of at least 4 sets of symbols, and I think consulting perhaps 2 would be wise.
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Unread 01-24-2019, 03:07 AM
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

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Pierce, out of curiosity, have you ever used Inside Degrees by Ellias Lonsdale?

Here's a link: https://aquaorfire.net/astrology/ins...e_degrees.html

To date, I found his descriptions to resonate the most with me on a touching, emotional, and instinctive level, when all the other ones somehow falls short in some ways. I just don't vibe with the others.

Perhaps we all respond to different vibrations? There is an opinion that different degrees symbols and descriptions are simply sides and facets to the same puzzle, and one ought to consider more than one, for a comprehensive effect. To date, I am aware of at least 4 sets of symbols, and I think consulting perhaps 2 would be wise.
I'll tell you what. You take those those descriptions and apply them to that chart I contend is the natal chart of Jesus/Yeshu'a of Nazareth and see for your self if anything "clicks". If you do come back to this thread, or start another, and give a presentation. If convincing I will look into them>

I've too much on my plate to spend the time in what, I do suspect, to be yet another fruitless endeavor.

There's a very good reason that I titled my book "A Template For The Time" as for the reason it is a "Template", a template of truth and understanding by which to learn and understand what true astrological knowledge is and what techniques are valid. I sometimes describe it as the "Rosetta Stone" of Astrology.

Sometime, not too long ago, Robert Hand began promoting a very obscure set of degree symbols from an equally obscure astrologer of the early 19th century. I only learned of this as for the reason they are in turn being promoted by astrodienst.com and that I constantly use astrodienst to cast charts. I find that rather "funny" in that He and Deborah Houlding recently took, so called, living authority on the Sabian Symbols, astrologer Lynda Hill, to lunch during an astrologers convention. Lynda wrote "gushingly" of the event and obviously was given no reason to believe that Robert wasn't in support of her "field of expertise" and most likely was given every reason to believe that He was...along with Deborah, whom is certainly no fan of the Sabian Symbols or their use...not to what I experienced during the brief time I was a member of Skyscript. I was shooed off, as I was allowed one thread, and one thread only, that had any mention of the Sabian Symbols. All subsequent threads I did initiate were deleted by Deborah with the explanation given for as; "You already posted that".

That set of obscure symbols Robert is championing are pure hogwash. I wouldn't trust that man to give me the correct time of day and far much less as to give me anything, He claims is correct, with astrology.
As astrodienst has made a very concerted effort to dis-rail my present endeavors ...moving the position of Pluto numerous times prior to their using a different program from which they base their computer ephemeris upon...and yet deny doing so prior to that "upgrade", even though I have a number of charts, in my files, made from the same data of time and place that were cast at astrodienst, between the time of my initial discovery on Nov. 7, 2004 and when they claim is the date the ephemeris was "updated" , that certainly prove otherwise it should be easy enough to figure out why Robert is involved in promoting such hogwash.

If the Sabian Symbols aren't working for you I can only say, "stick with it", you should eventually see that they are applicable and interpreted correctly, but only if you stick with Rudhyar's book, "An Astrological Mandala".

I'll await some demonstration by you before I pass any judgement on the list you have proposed and only then after I have further investigated myself if I find you presentation convincing enough to do so.

I always provide such a demonstration as to when I make any such claims I fully expect any other astrologer to do just the same.

E L & L
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Unread 01-24-2019, 03:29 AM
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Question Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

In Gemwdepth's link to the zodiac degrees, the signs are not in chronological order, it is arranged in a particular way to show Taurus is first, Scorpio is last.

1. Taurus, 2. Virgo, 3. Sagittarius, 4. Pisces, 5. Leo, 6. Aquarius, 7. Aries, 8. Libra, 9. Capricorn, 10. Cancer, 11. Gemini and 12. Scorpio. (No Ophiuchus).

Taurus 01(April 21-22) is the beginning, Scorpio 30 (November 21-22) is the ending. And Aquarius and Aries are in the middle of this oblong year listing.

I'm reminded of the path of 'Oumuamua, the first known interstellar object to cross our solar system followed a backward path (not quite on the ecliptic) from Sagittarius (closer to Scorpio) to Aries (closer to Pisces). It is thought to be the peak of prosperity in the world (2017 AD) starting and ending in Jupiter-ruled signs Sagittarius and Pisces (the sign between Aquarius and Aries). I guess in Leo and Taurus is the highest peak of this economic or financial prosperity, started in 2010 when 'Oumuamua "came in" and ends in 2024 as it "leaves out".
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Unread 01-24-2019, 03:47 AM
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

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I'll await some demonstration by you before I pass any judgement on the list you have proposed and only then after I have further investigated myself if I find you presentation convincing enough to do so.
Hi Pierce, I believe that is fair. I haven't looked too in-depth or am familiar with your Jesus/Yeshu'a of Nazareth thread, or life work so far. Hence for the recent two conversations or posts today, I wasn't quite following you. Plus it also seems you are way ahead of me, probably decades, in personal, astrological research. So I need to go study your thread and your particular astrological niche, and then tie it back to the conversation here. Noted.

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Unread 01-24-2019, 05:43 AM
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

What else to add is Aquarius (esp the star Sadalmelik, or Alpha Aquarii) lies on the celestial equator (0' 19"S, also 22' 05" Hours- close to 10pm I'll call it) and so does Leo. The start of astrological ages is 29* Leo (or is it 01* Leo having to do with its' brightest star Regulus or Alpha Leonis right on the ecliptic) and 29* Aquarius is the midpoint of ages in the 21st century AD (12,000 years ago is the beginning of world historic time). And the 9th sign Capricorn is when our modern New Years day is (January 1st) adjacent to or southeast of Aquarius.
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Unread 01-24-2019, 06:43 AM
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

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What else to add is Aquarius (esp the star Sadalmelik, or Alpha Aquarii) lies on the celestial equator (0' 19"S, also 22' 05" Hours- close to 10pm I'll call it) and so does Leo. The start of astrological ages is 29* Leo (or is it 01* Leo having to do with its' brightest star Regulus or Alpha Leonis right on the ecliptic) and 29* Aquarius is the midpoint of ages in the 21st century AD (12,000 years ago is the beginning of world historic time). And the 9th sign Capricorn is when our modern New Years day is (January 1st) adjacent to or southeast of Aquarius.
Are you sure that you are referring to the 29th degree of Aquarius and not the 30th? Just a curiosity is all as many confuse anything it the 30th degree of any sign as to being in the 29th.

In addition, I've an old thread that is titled... well, I forget the exact title..but it is titled as to something about the Mutual Validation of the Sabian Symbols and in which I bring up author Rabbi Dobin's book "Kabbalistic Astrology" ...you might find it of interest as to what you've brought up here?

I'll get back to this thread, hopefully in the next 48 hours, and provide a link.
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Unread 01-24-2019, 06:55 AM
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

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Hi Pierce, I believe that is fair. I haven't looked too in-depth or am familiar with your Jesus/Yeshu'a of Nazareth thread, or life work so far. Hence for the recent two conversations or posts today, I wasn't quite following you. Plus it also seems you are way ahead of me, probably decades, in personal, astrological research. So I need to go study your thread and your particular astrological niche, and then tie it back to the conversation here. Noted.



I actually have the physical book Inside Degrees nby Ellias Lonsdale, in storage. I donít recall if the book was laid out the same way, I'll have to check. When I first saw the website, I originally thought the layout was an anomaly.

But now that you bring it up, I vaguely remember now according to certain traditions (a long, long time ago), Taurus was considered to be the first sign of the Zodiac, not Aries. It may have been something Peto mentioned.
I'm now suspicious that these "principles" you've brought up are not, per se, degree symbolism.

Symbolism is open to interpretation. "Principles" are usually stated to be a fact. There is a difference and I am compelled to remind all that this sub-forum is dedicated to degree "symbolism".

I'll have to check them out,anyways, and get back to you on this matter.

I regret having to implied that I would require you to use the "Jesus natal chart" to provide an example. I should have caught myself at what I had written as that implies you must accept that as being the actual birth chart.

I should have written that I would like to see a demonstration using any chart of a well known personality, historic or otherwise. But that I'll let go as I'm going to have to check these out for myself now...as for the reason I stated above.

In admiration of your honoring traditional scientific methods of inquiry, theory, demonstration, proof. This study, this "science" of astrology, surely would benefit from more participants like yourself. ptv
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Unread 01-24-2019, 07:29 AM
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

Okay, that didn't take long.
Imho Elias doesn't know ****.

First off, he gives high praise to Marc Jones original set of Sabian Symbols and gives not mention that Rudhyar "busted" Jones for changing a number of them to fit Marc's personal agenda.

Then He accuses both Rudhyar and Jones of being inadequate to have interpreted them as for some sort of mental blockage.
Really now?
Rudhyar was "The Man" to do it and so did. His extensive studies of Jung, Vedic philosophy, Zen Buddhism, etc. etc. seemingly being disregarded by Elias. If he wasn't then how could he ever come to suspect that Jones had changed some of them?

Then Elias will have the reader believe He was in contact with "beings of light" that provided him with assistance.

I can pretty much say with complete confidence that Rudhyar was guided by Saint Germain, as definitely was Edgar Cayce, as definitely was Rudolf Steiner, as I believe I have been myself at least all the signs I have seen point to that.

Elias states that "the Sabian Symbols would have never gotten him there, to the center of the mystery" That's a pity, or a pitiful excuse for writing a book in the hopes He will profit from it...imho.

Finally, I checked out a number of degrees in which I know for a fact are spot on as to the description provided by Rudhyar's description in his book on the Sabian Symbols, "An Astrological Mandala" ...they are so far off, not remotely the same or even related, that it actually made me ill after reading a number of them.

NO SALE, HERE.
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Unread 01-24-2019, 04:04 PM
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

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Okay, that didn't take long.
Imho Elias doesn't know ****.
Your posts are funny. Reminds me of couple other posters who regularly crack me up here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
First off, he gives high praise to Marc Jones original set of Sabian Symbols and gives not mention that Rudhyar "busted" Jones for changing a number of them to fit Marc's personal agenda.
That's interesting. Can you share or perhaps PM me on how you found "Rudhyar busted Jones for changing things to fit Marc's personal agenda"?


Quote:
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Elias states that "the Sabian Symbols would have never gotten him there, to the center of the mystery" That's a pity, or a pitiful excuse for writing a book in the hopes He will profit from it...imho.
The book is very niche and not on the same level as modern astro cookbooks, which makes the most money. When you are getting into degrees and asteroids, its a tiny, tiny percentage of people who will actually buy. So I don't think a book like that would be worth the time to publish, if one's only purpose is to make money.

Quote:
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Finally, I checked out a number of degrees in which I know for a fact are spot on as to the description provided by Rudhyar's description in his book on the Sabian Symbols, "An Astrological Mandala" ...they are so far off, not remotely the same or even related, that it actually made me ill after reading a number of them.

NO SALE, HERE.
Ok. I'll take your word for it. I am probably still going to use that guide, and relate it back to the charts you are hypothesizing and researching, for exploration purpose.

So far, that one still vibe with me the most, but then I've only used it for couple of natal charts, very few degrees. It's making me wonder and suspect now if all or most degree symbolism compilations, have been altered in some areas, to fit agendas.
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Unread 01-24-2019, 05:28 PM
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

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Are you sure that you are referring to the 29th degree of Aquarius and not the 30th? Just a curiosity is all as many confuse anything it the 30th degree of any sign as to being in the 29th.

In addition, I've an old thread that is titled... well, I forget the exact title..but it is titled as to something about the Mutual Validation of the Sabian Symbols and in which I bring up author Rabbi Dobin's book "Kabbalistic Astrology" ...you might find it of interest as to what you've brought up here?

I'll get back to this thread, hopefully in the next 48 hours, and provide a link.
I just say the cusps of Cancer-Leo and Leo-Virgo, and Capricorn-Aquarius and Aquarius-Pisces, to make it simple for those not highly familiar in astrology.

I wanna make a point on Cancer/Aquarius people (sun and moon combos) are among the nicest, most humanitarian and selfless people I ever known. Virgo/ Aquarius people may be similar, then again it has to do with a strong feminine sun or moon combined with a masculine yet genderfluid one. They are opposite of many Aries/Scorpio people most prone to hostilities, tempers and negative characteristic traits (I know it's a generalization, don't blindly take astrology in this case). In between Cancer and Virgo is Leo, Aquarius' opposite...not sure what a Leo/Aquarius person is like in moral and ethical character and principle.
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Unread 01-24-2019, 06:24 PM
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

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I just say the cusps of Cancer-Leo and Leo-Virgo, and Capricorn-Aquarius and Aquarius-Pisces, to make it simple for those not highly familiar in astrology.

I wanna make a point on Cancer/Aquarius people (sun and moon combos) are among the nicest, most humanitarian and selfless people I ever known. Virgo/ Aquarius people may be similar, then again it has to do with a strong feminine sun or moon combined with a masculine yet genderfluid one. They are opposite of many Aries/Scorpio people most prone to hostilities, tempers and negative characteristic traits (I know it's a generalization, don't blindly take astrology in this case). In between Cancer and Virgo is Leo, Aquarius' opposite...not sure what a Leo/Aquarius person is like in moral and ethical character and principle.
You do all astrologers...and this is an astrologer's forum,,, a great dis-service by using such nomenclature.
The proper enumeration of the degrees is stated in a sticky at the beginning of this forum.
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Unread 01-24-2019, 06:58 PM
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

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Your posts are funny. Reminds me of couple other posters who regularly crack me up here.



That's interesting. Can you share or perhaps PM me on how you found "Rudhyar busted Jones for changing things to fit Marc's personal agenda"?




The book is very niche and not on the same level as modern astro cookbooks, which makes the most money. When you are getting into degrees and asteroids, its a tiny, tiny percentage of people who will actually buy. So I don't think a book like that would be worth the time to publish, if one's only purpose is to make money.



Ok. I'll take your word for it. I am probably still going to use that guide, and relate it back to the charts you are hypothesizing and researching, for exploration purpose.

So far, that one still vibe with me the most, but then I've only used it for couple of natal charts, very few degrees. It's making me wonder and suspect now if all or most degree symbolism compilations, have been altered in some areas, to fit agendas.
Rudhyar wrote about his discovery of how Marc changed some of the symbols and for what reason and how He proved it in his book "An Astrological Mandala"
I've written of this in a number of threads, it might take me hours or the better part of a day to find which threads.

I suppose I might have to create a thread entirely about that.
If you'll be patient I'll try to get the text posted here but with the 100 word limitation for using published text at this forum I don't know if I'll be allowed to.

Rudhyar stated in that book that He perceived that something was amiss with the Sabian Symbols which were given to him to study by Jones... as Dane was taking a correspondence course in Astrology due to the urging and encouragement of Annie Besant [Annie was the head honcho of the Theosophists of the West Coast of the USA located in Los Angeles.] While studying the Sabian Symbols Dane was able to perceive that they represented a process of transformation, one step to the next, but that there were a number of them that didn't fit in.
Obviously Marc never even realized that or He wouldn't have changed them.
When Dane found out that Elsie Wheeler, the clairvoyant whom had re-ascertained the symbols, was alive and living in San Diego Dane drove a car down to San Diego from L.A. and made a call upon Elsie.

He introduced himself and asked Elsie if she could remember what she "saw" as to some of the particular degrees of the Zodiac? Elsie replied she could do better than that as she still had the 360 cards upon which Marc had written down the description of what she saw at the time and she let Dane examine them.

Marc was busted,

In the 1940's Dane starts writing for one of the popular monthly astrology magazines and at the rate of three or four symbols a year publishes Elsie's original symbols with His analysis and interpretations.

What this amounted to is that Marc realized He was going to be exposed and after four years of these publications they stopped.

At the rate of three or four symbols a year it would of taken Dane 90 to 120 years to have all the symbols published... so why did He even bother to start?
The answer can only be to pressure Marc. Marc gave Dane his permission to write a book on the Sabian Symbols and also his blessing, i.e. permission, to change or alter, any that Dane saw fit to. and if and when you get a copy of the book Dane wrote you will find that Dane provides the original description of any symbol Dane did alter and explains why. He did a magnificent job of it too as there are a few I would have never recognized as for what they truly represent, the very 30th Degree of Aquarius that CapAquaPis brought up in a post above being one of the foremost and so very important.

About three or four years after Dane ceased publication in that magazine Marc publishes his book on the Sabians and that was in, I think, 1952.

Dane, however, took another 30 years before his book went to publication.

Just as Lao Tzu is reputed to have said that He wished He could live to be 200 years old so as to have more time to study the I Ching before He wrote his treatise I would likely have to assume that Dane felt the same way about the Sabian Symbols.

I assume that the set Marc published in the 1950's are the corrected set and not those He was issuing in his corespondent courses.
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

A further word about Elias. I noticed He used the term "pierces-the-veil".

Now, gee, why would He have done that?

Ask the Church Lady... Dana Carvey. if you know what I'm talking about?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_mePjkQW_c

He obviously has, or had, the intent of claiming to be the reincarnated Parsival as prophesied by Rudolf Steiner and written about and published in English by Trevor Ravenscroft.

I suppose I might as well let the cat out of the bag here.

I recently learned that Trevor Ravenscroft has a son that continues on with a cause in honor of his father and I have written to him and am awaiting a response.
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Re: The secrets of the zodiac degrees

Pierce

I just want to ask you one question. How did you explained astrology is real to the human on Earth [logicaly]?
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