Profections example: John McCain

dd78

Well-known member
Please correct me if I`m wrong with the following:

Mars onto Hour-Marker is bad, especially if unfavorably placed. It brings dangers, vicissitudes in livelihood, anxiety, disturbing crises, falls and injuries.


OK, so to translate it into contemporary English:

"Mars onto Hour-Marker" = natal Mars profected to natal AC

"especially if unfavorably placed" = if Mars is in an unfortunate house in natal chart, like 6th in case of McCain`s .


Mars onto Saturn causes terrible and disturbing year, lawsuits, abuse, penalties, breaches of faith, dangers, grief from family members, violent disruptive deeds, sudden dangers, enemies, illness, bandit attacks, profitless travel, injury and grief from servants. With ascending benefics, it causes minor troubles. The changeable and solid images are critical and make the results more certain. - https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=121677

"Mars onto Saturn" = Mars profected to the natal house where natal Saturn resides .
Does it work both ways, e.g. if natal Saturn profected to natal Mars, than the above delineation can be used?

Many of these interpretations give conflicting or confusing information without examples of how the technique works.



SO in general, this technique of profecting chart is very similar to the turning of chart and using of derived houses in Horary?

Interpretation is another thing, as given in the article:
https://www.scribd.com/document/398843647/Apotelesmatika?secret_password=vqQbwatGDZFMXQzydeqz

Am I right?


The 32nd year is more afflicting because Mars is activated also through the rising time of Cancer.


Can you explain it, please?
 
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tsmall

Premium Member
I find it helps me to write down, or type out, for me to fully understand, so here we go....

Okay so the day he was shot, Tr saturn was going through his SR 7th house (enemies), moon was maybe still moving from cancer to leo, but would have hit the 12th house cusp the same day he was shot. Benefics in the 12th saved him from actually dying, even though venus, one of his activated planets was in bad shape dignity wise, and rx, and 5 degrees from moving backwards into leo, which then would bring her out of fall, hence why he was held captive for 5 years.

Well done!

Now i can see where saturn is rx at 7 degrees Aries, but i can't see how saturn activated the shooting ? Im not even seeing an aspect from saturn to the 12th house cusp, its 2-3 degrees out, or is that enough for a trigger ?

Anything within 3* degrees does count. This is considered being "struck by a ray."
 

tsmall

Premium Member
I don`t see why this chart would point to any 7th hs significations like both divorce AND marriage :unsure:?

Mercury rules natal 7th. Look at where Mercury is and who he is with in the SR. :wink:

I would also point out that there is a heavy emphasis in the SR chart on the second (his second wife was uber rich) which is the natal 7th.

It's always handy to use an ephemeris, since we are considering not just what happens in SR charts, but also why transits to and from activated planets produce events. In April of 1980, the month John got divorced, T-Mars stationed at 25*Leo.
 
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tsmall

Premium Member
Welcome back, Sheriff!

Please don't delete this off-topic post. I'm reading the thread now..


Huh, now this is interesting. I remember reading somewhere, though it slips my mind, about certain planets "sleeping" so to speak in natal charts, though, an I'm not trying to cause a battle here, I think that source was Jyotish.

That may well be. I think of it more as a possible explanation as to how cadent planets are only operative at certain times.
 

tsmall

Premium Member
I used to focus only on the Lord of the Year like you do, but after time I adopted the more complex approach by Valens (which isn't his, but was used earlier by Critodemus and subsequently some Arabic astrologers).

Quite. But when first learning, one needs to understand how to crawl before one can run. But grasping the basics, and seeing them work in charts, students can branch out into more complex methods.
 

dd78

Well-known member
Mercury rules natal 7th. Look at where Mercury is and who he is with in the SR. :wink:

I would also point out that there is a heavy emphasis in the SR chart on the second (his second wife was uber rich) which is the natal 7th.

Oh, the fact that she was rich is critical :whistling:
Because it explains 8th hs profection with Mercury activated.
There are overlays 1st natal-8th sr. Or 2nd SR- 7th natal.



Venus is LOY, and she is combust and in fall. So did he marry her because he loved her? or did he love her money or social position? Or Was he prominent himself at that time ?

These questions are rethorical, only the condition of Venus as LOY is of real interest to me :wink:


I can`t see why a partile conjunction with out of sect Jupiter would make him rich?

Jupiter is his natal chart ruler and he is very strong in every possible way.
This guy is supposed to be successful in everything he does. All his SR charts are less important than this.

Why would I omit the condition of LOY and Eloy in THIS SR, respectively, and pay attention only to one activated planet, anyway?

It's always handy to use an ephemeris, since we are considering not just what happens in SR charts, but also why transits to and from activated planets produce events. In April of 1980, the month John got divorced, T-Mars stationed at 25*Leo.

OK, I`m using it, but it only makes things more complicated.

I apologize for asking so many questions, but I need to understand this method inside out, because according to it (in combination with SR) I get EVERY planet in my chart activated this year.

How do I separate the wheat from the chaff? The vision is blurred because of influences piling up. :andy:
 

tsmall

Premium Member
I can`t see why a partile conjunction with out of sect Jupiter would make him rich?

It didn't. It got him married.

Jupiter is his natal chart ruler and he is very strong in every possible way.
This guy is supposed to be successful in everything he does. All his SR charts are less important than this.

No they aren't. I have just give two examples so far.

Why would I omit the condition of LOY and Eloy in THIS SR, respectively, and pay attention only to one activated planet, anyway?

You wouldn't. Not if you were doing a full year reading. But in this case...because it's in the ASC.



OK, I`m using it, but it only makes things more complicated.

I apologize for asking so many questions, but I need to understand this method inside out, because according to it (in combination with SR) I get EVERY planet in my chart activated this year.

How do I separate the wheat from the chaff? The vision is blurred because of influences piling up. :andy:

I just had a very similar year. 1st house profection, everydamnbody in my chart activated. If you are really trying to figure it out, I would start a thread with your chart.
 

tsmall

Premium Member
In 2006 John turned 70. An 11th house year. Here's the chart.
 

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  • JM SR 2006.jpg
    JM SR 2006.jpg
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dd78

Well-known member
Before I proceed :
I don`t know what kind of impression I make. Written speech is really poor in
preserving vital information. It leaves way too much space for interpretation. Even if one uses emoticons extensively :pouty:

I need you to know, that I`m not trying to challenge you, I`m just trying to understand how it works, so I need a really detailed explanation.







It didn't. It got him married.


Obviously, marriage doesn`t just happen as a sudden / unexpected event. It`s a result of a longer and complicated process and is dependent on many variables. And it probably shows in charts of both involved individuals. ANd not just in one single SR.


WOuld you predict marriage for that year (1979) if he was lame and in an institution for vets?
And he/his family couldn`t afford to replace his torn out teeth ( so he couldn`t speak, eat and his face was disfigured) ?

I don`t think so.




Originally Posted by dd78
Jupiter is his natal chart ruler and he is very strong in every possible way.
This guy is supposed to be successful in everything he does. All his SR charts are less important than this.
No they aren't. I have just give two examples so far.


Well, I can see Jupiter (his natal chart ruler representing himself and his social position - MC) in 12th SR house of imprisonment. Jupiter also ruled his SR IC, so his home was a prison and it was known to many people ( supposedly - his natal MC alignes with SR IC). ANd his natal IC ruler, Mercury is combust = can`t do his job because he is under heavy influence of somebody else = Sun, 12th SR cusp ruler!
How spooky is this?

He didn`t die, sure. He lived in a prison. And this is what I meant by saying that his natal chart was more important than SR :)



"The natal chart is the root chart and is more important than any other".
I hear such statements on and on from different users on this forum. I can`t say if these are just their opinions or FACTS and rules to be followed.
I can agree with opinions or not. It`s subjective and my own decision.
I can`t, however, deny facts or break rules because, say, I don`t like them. Rules are set for reasons. And denying facts is simply silly and childish.

Now, that you`re saying that McCain`s SR charts actually are more important than his natal, e.g.:

At least this is what it seems you meant by:

No they aren't. I have just give two examples so far.

It makes me really confused!!!
What is the rule and what is an opinion, then?



I just had a very similar year. 1st house profection, everydamnbody in my chart activated. If you are really trying to figure it out, I would start a thread with your chart.

Yes, I actually posted my SR charts three times, but there were no answers and no help or whatsoever.

I mean, others asked me for charts and then suddenly stopped replying to the thread. Now, how rude is this ?!?

Or is there anything seriously wrong with me and I simply unknowingly repulse others even from behind two firewalls ? :sad:

The above is a rhetorical question.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Before I proceed :
I don`t know what kind of impression I make. Written speech is really poor in
preserving vital information. It leaves way too much space for interpretation. Even if one uses emoticons extensively :pouty:
I need you to know, that I`m not trying to challenge you, I`m just trying to understand how it works, so I need a really detailed explanation.
Obviously, marriage doesn`t just happen as a sudden / unexpected event. It`s a result of a longer and complicated process and is dependent on many variables. And it probably shows in charts of both involved individuals. ANd not just in one single SR.
WOuld you predict marriage for that year (1979) if he was lame and in an institution for vets?
And he/his family couldn`t afford to replace his torn out teeth ( so he couldn`t speak, eat and his face was disfigured) ?
I don`t think so.
Originally Posted by dd78
Jupiter is his natal chart ruler and he is very strong in every possible way.
This guy is supposed to be successful in everything he does. All his SR charts are less important than this.

Well, I can see Jupiter (his natal chart ruler representing himself and his social position - MC) in 12th SR house of imprisonment. Jupiter also ruled his SR IC, so his home was a prison and it was known to many people ( supposedly - his natal MC alignes with SR IC). ANd his natal IC ruler, Mercury is combust = can`t do his job because he is under heavy influence of somebody else = Sun, 12th SR cusp ruler!
How spooky is this?

He didn`t die, sure. He lived in a prison. And this is what I meant by saying that his natal chart was more important than SR :)

"The natal chart is the root chart and is more important than any other".
I hear such statements on and on from different users on this forum. I can`t say if these are just their opinions or FACTS and rules to be followed.
I can agree with opinions or not. It`s subjective and my own decision.
I can`t, however, deny facts or break rules because, say, I don`t like them. Rules are set for reasons. And denying facts is simply silly and childish.
Now, that you`re saying that McCain`s SR charts actually are more important than his natal, e.g.:
At least this is what it seems you meant by:
It makes me really confused!!!
What is the rule and what is an opinion, then?

Yes, I actually posted my SR charts three times, but there were no answers and no help or whatsoever.
I mean, others asked me for charts and then suddenly stopped replying to the thread. Now, how rude is this ?!?
Or is there anything seriously wrong with me and I simply unknowingly repulse others even from behind two firewalls ?
:sad:
The above is a rhetorical question.
if thread on which you posted your SR charts
is titled Solar return - health and finances :smile:
and is posted on Read My Chart board
then you received plenty of responses
and no one was rude to you
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115421
all charts are deleted from that thread
all that remains are responses to now deleted charts
 

dd78

Well-known member
if thread on which you posted your SR charts
is titled Solar return - health and finances :smile:
and is posted on Read My Chart board
then you received plenty of responses
and no one was rude to you
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115421



You`re right!
There were plenty of responses!
Given by myself :pinched:



all charts are deleted from that thread
all that remains are responses to now deleted charts

IMO, Asking to attach a chart and not replying anymore isn`t exactly what I would call a fair play. How would you call it? A faul play? I wouldn`t go that far myself. I would call it ignorance. And ignorance is always is rude.


Only one user was kind enough to actually give me a bit of information, which I appreciated and thanked for.
But it wasn`t exactly what I needed. All I needed and asked were simple one/two-sentence answers (like: "don`t try to sue your ex for child support due to you, because you will never win with him, so don`t waste your time and don`t add to your nervous tension. It`s not worth it").
And so I asked specifically about two things, because the condition of Mars (natal 8th ruler in SR 8th, Libra) in that SR and in profected chart was simply alarming to me. I was concerned enough not to ride my bike that summer. I love biking and I can only ride it in summer. It was a like a torture to me.

Sounds similar to John McCain`s 1967 story?

I was supposed to die in August 2018. I survived only to continue self-loathing, because there is no other reason for this.
Unfortunately, Jupiter is in my 12 natal hs, and I can`t see my own death anywhere near anytime soon.

But you know what?
My natal AC/DC axis is almost exactly conjunct that of John McCain`s , just flipped!
This is spooky! My natal 1st/10th ruler (Mercury) is also in Sag and conjunct an angle.


Mercury is also conjunct Jupiter in SR and both also rule natal and SR 2018 (current SR) angles.

ANd this is where similarities stop :pinched:

And John Mc Cain`s chart is of bigger than average interest to me, because of the above.

But this thread is not about me. I can attach my SR 2017 chart, if you want to take a look and compare it to that of John McCain`s ( SR 1967).


But I prefer to be asked directly, even if it seems too blunt and not diplomatic enough.


It doesn`t really matter to me anymore how that chart looked like. It`s over. My intuition was right. I still don`t have enough knowledge to make a reading, so I ask for help.
If I don`t get it within reasonable time (in case of a chart that is valid for a short time) , I simply decide not to compromise my privacy and let anybody peep into my natal chart.
Internet is not a friendly place.

I think moderators know it better than me.





I`m sorry if I sound aggressive, judgmental or whatever. It's not my intention. I can`t help it.


Tsmall, you can delete this post if you think it`s off topic. You decide as OP.
 
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