German Wings Crash - what happened?

Tessie

Banned
It must have been a very spontaneous decision....

No suicide note...?
Going to work during a strike.....?
Buying a new Audi for himself....?
Everyone remembering him as normal...? Except his ex?
I'd say his psychological profile is that of an internally erratic individual and it is seen best through the lens of his relationship and only supported further by medical evidence. Even if he did not aim to crash the plane he is guilty as sin for flying when deemed unfit to do so. He repeatedly broke the regulations.
 

Marinka

Well-known member
Thanks, Marinka. Is there anything in the chart to suggest adverse effects of medications co-pilot was taking?

There are possible (not confirmed, as I do not have past cases of his to use) aspects that lend to medications. His Neptune at 7 Capricorn has a trine from transiting Venus @ 8 Taurus and the Black Moon at 9 Virgo (making a grand trine) and a sextile from Neptune at 8 Pisces.

These aspects could indicate a move to medications to control some illness but it does not suggest adverse effects. On the contrary, it suggests that it was an easy move and a natural next step.
 

Freya39

Well-known member
In the copilot natal chart the fire element dominate while air element is missing. Moreover, 3 planets are part of Stellium (Mercur, Saturn and Sun). Symbolically, this aspect may have awakened his ambition in order to achieve his major obligations to society and to develop his goals. The drive may have been towards competition, philosophy, religions, travel and fighting for some cause.

It seems that this was the time, when he wanted to do everything in a big way; perhaps he wanted to demonstrate his real courage. Also, perhaps he struggled to break a way from restriction form.

Additionally, in the natal chart Stellium was in Jupiter sign Sagittarius, while in the Solar Arch chart Sellium is in Saturn’s sign, capricorn. This may suggest the switch of his natural uniqnese. He may bring to his mind new ideas about reality, which could have determined to change his life goal.

http://www.peregrineworld.com/blog/andreas-lubitz-natal-chart-interpretation/
 
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unique_astrology

Well-known member
The source for the December 28th date has made a correction and an apology.

Korrektur: Das Geburtsdatum war hier zunächst mit 28. Dezember 1987 angegeben. Richtig ist der 18. Dezember. Wir bitten den Fehler zu entschuldigen

From Google Translate: Correction: The date of birth was here initially stated, by 28 December 1987. Properly is 18 December. We apologize for the error.

From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Lubitz

References

http://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/panorama/Andreas-Lubitz-Wer-war-der-Co-Pilot-von-Flug-4U-9525-id33511832.html

^ Andreas Lubitz: Wer war der Co-Pilot von Flug 4U 9525? (Andreas Lubitz: Who was the Co-Pilot of Flight 4U 9525?), augsburger-allgemeine.de (in German), retrieved 30 March 2015. This source wrote originally '28 Dezember' but as of 30 March, it has changed the date to 18 December. It says "Lubitz stammt aus Montabaur in Rheinland-Pfalz und wurde laut Düsseldorfer Bezirksregierung am 18. Dezember 1987 geboren...." (Lubitz is from Montabaur, and according to the Düsseldorf district government was born on 18 December 1987)
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
UPDATE

On Sunday, it emerged that Lubitz may have been suffering from eyesight loss.

•Fatherhood: Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz was expecting a baby with his teacher girlfriend
before the air crash which killed him and 149 others, it has been claimed.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Reports suggest Lubitz may have been suffering from a detached retina
when he 'deliberately' crashed the Airbus A320 into the French Alps

There are also claims by the media that the pilot (i.e. the captain) suffered from depression
 

Tessie

Banned
There are possible (not confirmed, as I do not have past cases of his to use) aspects that lend to medications. His Neptune at 7 Capricorn has a trine from transiting Venus @ 8 Taurus and the Black Moon at 9 Virgo (making a grand trine) and a sextile from Neptune at 8 Pisces.

These aspects could indicate a move to medications to control some illness but it does not suggest adverse effects. On the contrary, it suggests that it was an easy move and a natural next step.

Thanks, Marinka. It may help be helpful if resident chart rectification specialist, member Kannon, chipped in to this thread in order to identify co-pilot's ascending degree.

Thinking today about co-pilot's motive to destroy a large number of people, one considers he may have targeted an inhabited area if that were his goal. However, as a learned pilot, he would have been aware of contingency procedures for potential terrorism which stood to hamper any such attempt coming in to an inhabited area or large city. He would have had not full control and not enough time to crash from such a great height in a locked cockpit. High mountains bought him time to operate within the time-lock.

From the various descriptions, controlling his ex-girlfriend, destroying critical medical evidence and placing himself and others in danger, repeatedly and secretively, suggests he was destructive from a high desire to control. He was reliant on maintaining control to such an extent that taking time off work, paid, was like death in his mind (according to colleagues), which is testament to a level of disturbance, independent of the crash. By this profile, it is likely he may not have told the whole truth to the psychiatrists. He wanted to control his pathology, which was pathological control, by being pathologically controlling.
 
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Marinka

Well-known member
Thinking today about co-pilot's motive to destroy a large number of people, one considers he may have targeted an inhabited area if that were his goal. However, as a learned pilot, he would have been aware of contingency procedures for potential terrorism which stood to hamper any such attempt coming in to an inhabited area or large city. He would have had not full control and not enough time to crash from such a great height in a locked cockpit. High mountains bought him time to operate within the time-lock.

From the various descriptions, controlling his ex-girlfriend, destroying critical medical evidence and placing himself and others in danger, repeatedly and secretively, suggests he was destructive from a high desire to control. He was reliant on maintaining control to such an extent that taking time off work, paid, was like death in his mind (according to colleagues), which is testament to a level of disturbance, independent of the crash. By this profile, it is likely he may not have told the whole truth to the psychiatrists. He wanted to control his pathology, which was pathological control, by being pathologically controlling.



The investigators are also finding it very hard to find a motive and maybe ... just maybe, this was not a planned act or even an act done by him .. rather just an accident.

Many of the interviews I have heard from fellow friends, neighbors, and co-workers paint this person admirably and not likely to do this act although, that is not a fact just their impression of the person. The media is bringing up what an ex-girlfriend said ... that's not usually a good reference as an "ex" anything has an axe to grind. There was also mention that the investigators had not even interviewed her and the assumption being that she probably couldn't add much or what she would say would be dubious.

A bit earlier the experts were on again and they picked up on the fact that there was no mention of the door alarm on the transcripts. They were at a loss as to why that did not happen and it meant that the pilot had not pressed in the code ... but, people forget codes in time of stress so that's not unusual but it could potentially mean that the co-pilot had not locked the door and it had gotten locked as the pilot exited the cockpit.

I looked at the chart of the co-pilot and the activation in the chart was to Chiron which I call the wounded warrior, this was telling me that he was going to be blamed for this but, I didn't see anything in the chart that was indicating he did it. Yes, he does have a Pluto/Mars conjunction but, it was not being activated from what I looked at so far in the chart.

Based on what I saw in the chart, I started to question what the media was saying (murdering the passengers) and I realized that it was full of holes. It doesn't matter how many times the media says it, they have to have facts to back it up and they don't have any that back up what they say.
 

SL123

Well-known member
Thinking today about co-pilot's motive to destroy a large number of people said:
This news story suggests that Andreas Lubitz intentionally crashed the plane in a familiar location that he loved… "One day I will do something that will change the whole system, and then all will know my name and remember it." Perhaps he killed the passengers only for the recognition that it would bring to his name.

Lubitz 'loved the Alps'

Killer co-pilot Andreas Lubitz was obsessed with the mountainous region where he is thought to have brought down a passenger jet.

According to a member of the gliding association where he learnt to fly, the young pilot frequently headed for the region when up in the sky.

Dieter Wagner, a member of Luftsportclub Westerwald, has told Le Parisien: "He was passionate about the Alps, even obsessed with them.’

"Andreas participated in courses in the Alpes-de-Haute-Provence with my niece, who was a good friend to him.

"I am sure he knew the area of the crash because he had flown over it in a glider."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/andreas-lubitz-germanwings-live-updates-5416257
 

Kalyxa

Well-known member
It is strange that on the audio recording no noise could be heard indicating that the access code to unlock the door had been entered.

Some of the conversation that is alleged to have taken place just before the pilot left to use the washroom does make it seem like Andreas was eager for him to leave the cockpit though. He encouraged the captain to use the washroom several times, and when he was asked to prepare for landing in Dusseldorf, Andreas responded using words like "hopefully" and "we'll see." It could be a coincidence. It just seems eerie in light of everything that happened though.

If this was indeed an accident, and something did manage to happen to him right after he was left alone in the cockpit, wouldn't some other noises be heard on the audio recording? A bang or thump, gasps or choking, etc. He could be heard breathing normally throughout the whole incident. I suppose he could have just passed out while reclining in his chair, it just seems so unlikely though considering that he was in such good shape.
 

Tessie

Banned
The investigators are also finding it very hard to find a motive and maybe ... just maybe, this was not a planned act or even an act done by him .. rather just an accident.

Many of the interviews I have heard from fellow friends, neighbors, and co-workers paint this person admirably and not likely to do this act although, that is not a fact just their impression of the person. The media is bringing up what an ex-girlfriend said ... that's not usually a good reference as an "ex" anything has an axe to grind. There was also mention that the investigators had not even interviewed her and the assumption being that she probably couldn't add much or what she would say would be dubious.

A bit earlier the experts were on again and they picked up on the fact that there was no mention of the door alarm on the transcripts. They were at a loss as to why that did not happen and it meant that the pilot had not pressed in the code ... but, people forget codes in time of stress so that's not unusual but it could potentially mean that the co-pilot had not locked the door and it had gotten locked as the pilot exited the cockpit.

I looked at the chart of the co-pilot and the activation in the chart was to Chiron which I call the wounded warrior, this was telling me that he was going to be blamed for this but, I didn't see anything in the chart that was indicating he did it. Yes, he does have a Pluto/Mars conjunction but, it was not being activated from what I looked at so far in the chart.

Based on what I saw in the chart, I started to question what the media was saying (murdering the passengers) and I realized that it was full of holes. It doesn't matter how many times the media says it, they have to have facts to back it up and they don't have any that back up what they say.

Sure. I agree, without the benefit of facts the industry often gleans from black box crash investigations any conclusion is unstable. Pieces of the puzzle are missing, which is to be expected at this stage. However, lines of evidence come from several sources.

* His personal life (i.e., pregnancy paired with relationship breakdown): Negative reports.
* His health (i.e., psychiatric judgement): Negative reports.
* His professional integrity (i.e., ripped up medical certificates): Negative reports.
* His friends and neighbours: Positive reports.

Of these four lines of evidence only one, friends and neighbours, is positive. I also think this one is the least reliable source of evidence within an investigation such as this because of the nature of these relationships. Intimate relationships are an intense merging of two people into one. This process inevitably reveals the problems in a person because they can no longer be concealed. Second, getting psychiatric help provides a similarly clear window because psychiatric help is sought under pressure and desperation when a person is out of control. The ripped up medical certificates hold the most weight because they are direct evidence of co-pilot's modus opernadi, selfish, controlling and disturbed. We know he was a coward, living a lie (death). That much seems fact.

Sources against this conclusion come from friends and neighbours. However, these are not intimate relationships and are therefore unlikely to reveal the intimate detail necessary for deciphering a motive, which is what this is about. If I was in a relationship with an abusive man, that would be enough info. for me. What his friends have to say about his other face with them would be completely irrelevant. Some characters are all round abusive. Some are abusive only behind closed doors. Imo, testimonies of his friends and neighbours are not in power to negate the testimony of his ex-girlfriend, a testimony which also happens to be supported by medical evidence and, as a piece of the puzzle, fits in neatly with his ripping up of medical certificates. The friends and neighbours testimony does not fit and it is not unreasonable to see why.

Astrology will show people have things going on under the surface which is not shown outside. In co-pilot's chart activations must be reliant on his ascendant given the nature of both the event, his relations to the public, and suspected reason for the event, a possible personality disorder. Does his chart speak of these aforementioned malicious events which we know are true, extreme stress, romantic break up, personal breakdown, expecting to become a father?

I admire with your diplomatic approach in suggesting alternatives. Please excuse my more fixed position. I do feel empathy for the co-pilot but whenever I try to get into his shoes I just can't accept his conviction to hide his condition, abuse his position of trust and power and place others in such danger. No doubt an important, possibly deciding, piece of evidence will come from the aviation services. At present, however, they have provided official support in neither direction. I can understand that among their priorities is the aim to treat the families involved, including the co-pilot, with the utmost dignity particularly at this early stage. It is what it is.
 

unique_astrology

Well-known member
I see that Astrodienst has found evidence to suggest Neuburg an der D, Germany or Bankok, Thailand as places where Lubitz might have been born.

Working with both localities I dismiss Bangkok. Neuburg has more difficult aspects than are to be found in Montabaur.

Changes For Andreas Lubitz

Because the progressed anlunars are worked backward from the date, time, and place of an event to find a time for a birth chart there are no changes to any charts for that location. When the place of birth changes, the only changes that occur are the angles of the birth chart at that locality and aspects to them.

In Andreas Lubitz' chart they are:

If the birth place was Montabaur - the MC was 173°53' (I think Montabaur can be discounted)

Square to MC (E Pt) 263°53'

Natal Mercury was on the E Pt at 262°11'
Natal Saturn was on the E Pt at 262°21'

If the birth place was Neuburg an der Donau - the MC was 177°14'

On the Asc

Natal Mars-Saturn midpoint rose at 176°49'
Natal Mars-Mercury midpoint rose at 177°54'
Natal Mars-Sun midpoint rose at 178°44'
Natal Mars-Uranus midpoint rose at 179°29'
Secondary progressed Mars at the time of the crash was on the Asc at 177°19'
Transit Saturn was on the Asc at 176°26'
 
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SL123

Well-known member
Lufthansa Knew Andreas Lubitz was receiving psychotherapy for severe depression and suicidal tendencies prior to becoming a pilot

"But he added that Lubitz underwent psychotherapy several years ago, before he became a pilot in 2013, "for a long period due to diagnosed suicidal tendencies".


Alps crash pilot had suicidal tendencies in past: prosecutors

31st March 2015


The co-pilot believed to have deliberately crashed a Germanwings plane into the French Alps was classified as suicidal "several years ago" but had appeared more stable of late, German prosecutors said.

[edited quote over 100 words against Forum rules - Moderator]

http://www.expatica.com/fr/news/cou...al-tendencies-in-past-prosecutors_468444.html

 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Reports in the German press suggest that Lubitz's unnamed partner had become pregnant by him in recent months

• Dusseldorf hospital confirms it treated Andreas Lubitz in February and March but not for depression

The Uniklinik hospital in Dusseldorf confirmed that it had treated Lubitz in recent weeks but said it was not for depression.
Meanwhile Bild German newspaper reported that
"Lubitz had a serious relationship crisis with his girlfriend before the disaster and the resulting heartbreak is thought to have led to this.
A former girlfriend of Andreas Lubitz, an air stewardess named as Maria W, 26,
claimed on Saturday that Lubitz feared his illness would prevent him fulfilling his lifelong ambition of becoming a long haul pilot.
She told the German newspaper Bild:
"He did it because he realised that because of his health problems his big dream of a job with Lufthansa;
a job as captain and as a long haul pilot was as good as impossible."

Investigators are working on the theory that Lubitz was motivated by the fear he could lose his pilot’s licence over his health.
But the focus has moved from issues with Lubitz’s eyesight to his mental health.
A source close to the investigation told Bild newspaper
that Lubitz had recently visited several different doctors about the same problem.
One theory being considered is that he was trying to avoid a psychiatric diagnosis.
Lubitz visted the University Hospital Düsseldorf three times between February and March 10 this year.
Sources also told the newspaper that Lubitz wanted a break from work
– but did not want to take sick leave for fear it could endanger his career.
The co-pilot was treated for suicidal tendencies several years ago,
and it is believed problems with his eyesight may have been psychosomatic in origin.



Carsten Spohr, CEO of Lufthansa, said the two pilots trained in Phoenix, Arizona
and that the co-pilot started in 2008 after waiting for eight months
"I find it hard to believe that Andreas, who dreamt of flying and of being a pilot, would deliberately fly his plane into a mountain and kill all those people.
"If that is true it also means that the results of all the psychological tests he would have had to take to be a pilot were wrong."
The 27-year-old's parents’ neighbours in the affluent suburb on the edge of Montabaur all spoke of a polite, if not particularly gregarious, man.


The chief executive of Lufthansa said there were no indications of abnormal behaviour in Lubitz
and that there is "no system in the world" that could have predicted and prevented his actions.
"He was 100 per cent fit to fly. There was no particular thing to note or to watch out for (in him)."
He said the psychological tests carried out on their pilots by a specialised German training centre were regarded as among the best in the world.
"The co-pilot qualified as a pilot in 2008. He first worked as a steward and then became a first officer (pilot) in 2013."
"He took a several months break for reasons I do not know. Then he had to do the test again."




879-14273792261299902621.svg
 

SL123

Well-known member
Reports: Video found in wreckage shows Germanwings flight's final seconds

By Pamela Brown, Frederik Pleitgen and Laura Smith-Spark, CNN
Updated 1912 GMT (0212 HKT) March 31, 2015

Dusseldorf, Germany (CNN)Video found in the wreckage on a French mountainside shows the nightmarish final seconds of Germanwings Flight 9525, reports said Tuesday.

[edited content over 100 words against Forum rules - Moderator]

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/31/europe/france-germanwings-plane-crash-main/
 
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wilsontc

Staff member
Back to astrology

All,

Please get back to astrology. While giving information from news items is useful, work on combining these news sources with astrological insights.

Back to astrology,

Tim
 
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