The Future Already Exists

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
There are only two days in the year when nothing can be done

One is called 'yesterday'


The other is called 'tomorrow'
:smile:

Dalai Lama
 

greybeard

Well-known member
Lucid said, " in the same way that we perhaps are evolving in an "evolution", he thinks that there already exists an "us" in the final form, and the point in time which we consider as "now", is just midway from our future, and that the future ultimately shapes us towards it, and influences how the past, or "now" looks like."

We can use astrology to "see" this.
Your birth chart shows what you are Now.
And it shows what you were at birth.
And it shows what you will be tomorrow and beyond.

And it is all the same birth chart.

Javier Solis, one of my favorite Mexican singers, says in one of his songs, "Siempre fui lo que soy." "I always was what I am."

We don't really change. What changes is our awareness of who and what we are, and the nature of the universe.

If we look at the quotation from Augustine, we see that past and future exist now...in the present...and that as the Dalai Lama says, there are only two days in the year when nothing can be done.
 

Lucid

Well-known member
We can use astrology to "see" this.
Your birth chart shows what you are Now.
And it shows what you were at birth.
And it shows what you will be tomorrow and beyond.

And it is all the same birth chart.



How can you see this in the chart? or do you mean, you can see it in transits?
 

greybeard

Well-known member
I mean your birth chart describes you....at any stage of life
So, you are what you were and what you will be.
At birth the chart is all potential, of course
And in middle age it's a work in progress
But you are still you, no matter the age
 

Lucid

Well-known member
I mean your birth chart describes you....at any stage of life
So, you are what you were and what you will be.
At birth the chart is all potential, of course
And in middle age it's a work in progress
But you are still you, no matter the age


I have a few more questions....
If time is an illusion, since we are what we will be/what we already were, and the only thing that changes is our perception, than why is our natal BIRTH chart counts as OURS? I mean, the birth chart is one point in the PAST time, so aren't we supposed to be constantly influenced by the planets as they move around? as opposed to the idea that only the outer planets are influencing on a generational level?
I've always wondered how do transits work. Say, how does a current pluto "remember"s that my natal sun was at this degree, and then would square it, after 10 years, and the general way in which it would function.


Secondly, feelings of deja-vu.... the feeling like I've already been here, seen it, done that - is that just a memory from the past strangely coinciding with the present, or the future accidentally slipping a bit of information into the present? how would that be expressed in a chart, if at all? would it have any connections to the north node in retrograde?
 

Blacknight

Well-known member
I think about this idea a lot... If you can't change the past and future inevitably becomes the past what makes you think the future can be changed? And if we exist in the present, how can we change something that hasn't even happened? It is what it is.

I think the greeks had it right on their philosophy of the fates. You can't change fate. You can't change destiny or the motions of the universe.

And if you go back to the the very beginning of the universe, you might say everything is a simple chain reaction. I mean really, what is the state of free will? I would say it only exists, if a realm outside of the universe exists. If an afterlife of spirits exist and they choose their lots in life then maybe I could see that there is a choice of will.
 

Lucid

Well-known member
I think about this idea a lot... If you can't change the past and future inevitably becomes the past what makes you think the future can be changed? And if we exist in the present, how can we change something that hasn't even happened? It is what it is.

I think the greeks had it right on their philosophy of the fates. You can't change fate. You can't change destiny or the motions of the universe.

And if you go back to the the very beginning of the universe, you might say everything is a simple chain reaction. I mean really, what is the state of free will? I would say it only exists, if a realm outside of the universe exists. If an afterlife of spirits exist and they choose their lots in life then maybe I could see that there is a choice of will.


In the article I posted he speaks about free will as something that concerns the past, not the future:

Your recent paper in Physics Today (co-authored with Jeff Tollaksen, also at Chapman, and Sandu Popescu of the University of Bristol) suggests that the universe might have a fully determined final state as well as a beginning state. Does that cause you to wrestle with the idea of free will?
A. I don't have any problem with that because free will means you are only freed from the past. You're not freed from the future. If somebody would know your future, but not tell you about it, and we would not use (the information) in any way, it's as if we waited till the future came.
If something comes back from the future, like this destiny state, to the present, but it is not available to to tell you what this future is, you're still free from the past. You can change your mind. If you change your mind, you change your fate, and it will be the new state.


It is somewhat similar to the idea that fate exists... and the actions and decisions we make using our free will is always bound to respond with our fate.... as the op said, everything that we were, are and will be is already shown in the chart.
 

Cap

Well-known member
If time is an illusion, since we are what we will be/what we already were, and the only thing that changes is our perception, than why is our natal BIRTH chart counts as OURS? I mean, the birth chart is one point in the PAST time, so aren't we supposed to be constantly influenced by the planets as they move around? as opposed to the idea that only the outer planets are influencing on a generational level?
I've always wondered how do transits work. Say, how does a current pluto "remember"s that my natal sun was at this degree, and then would square it, after 10 years, and the general way in which it would function.

There are several schools of thought on this but fundamental difference is:

a) Aristotelian-Ptolemaic view The planets CAUSE things to happen, they are causal agents. Therefore, astrology is virtually a branch of physics.

b) Stoic view The universe is governed and determined by all-permeating cosmic intelligence. Here planets are objects which SIGNIFY things, but not cause them.

Personally, option b is closer to my understanding of astrology.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
I have recognized myself as a Stoic for a long time now.

The planets are not causal. They are descriptive.

The configuration of the heavens at the Moment of Birth describes the State of the Cosmos at that Moment. We, each of us, are the Embodiment of that Moment, and therefore the configuration of the heavens describes us equally with the Moment, because we are of the nature of that moment.

We continually seek to separate ourselves from Nature, to put ourselves outside and above, in our arrogance, our infatuation with what we see as our Power (to control and direct our lives -- a delusion). For my part, I will do my best to ride the flow of the River, to stay within the current of my Destiny. I have fallen into angry rivers here in real life, and know how to survive; you don't fight the River.

And Lucid -- I wrote out and sent an answer to your questions about deja vu, "remembering" natal positions and all...but I sent it off as a PM and don't know to who. I don't have the desire to write it all over again.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I think about this idea a lot... If you can't change the past and future inevitably becomes the past what makes you think the future can be changed? And if we exist in the present, how can we change something that hasn't even happened? It is what it is
There's one way of changing the Past and the Future and that is NOW DURING THE PRESENT MOMENT

The Past is History
The Future is a Mystery
The Present is a Gift

The Present is the place from which to change Past and Future :smile:

The Future is always changing and never happens

I think the greeks had it right on their philosophy of the fates. You can't change fate. You can't change destiny or the motions of the universe.

And if you go back to the the very beginning of the universe, you might say everything is a simple chain reaction. I mean really, what is the state of free will? I would say it only exists, if a realm outside of the universe exists. If an afterlife of spirits exist and they choose their lots in life then maybe I could see that there is a choice of will.
"Through the round of many births I roamed

without reward,

without rest,

seeking the house-builder.

Painful is birth, again & again.

House-builder, you’re... seen!

You will not build a house again.

All your rafters broken,

the ridge pole destroyed,

gone to the Unformed,

the mind has come to the end of craving."- Dhammapada ~Buddha~



1469907_10152042727171154_195952724_n.jpg
Photo credit- Kevin Plumb
 

poyi

Premium Member
Fascinating scientific finding on how memories can be passed on through generation through the bloodline. The personality and past events are stored within genetic so as the principles of Sun, Moon and Ascendant as well as POF perhaps a lot more. The most important points are your Father, Mother, physical combination of these two to be born into another form as you the combined product.

Behaviour can be affected by events in previous generations which have been passed on through a form of genetic memory, animal studies suggest. Experiments showed that a traumatic event could affect the DNA in sperm and alter the brains and behaviour of subsequent generations.
To read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-25156510
 

greybeard

Well-known member
I look at the birth chart this way...and it is only my conception, which means it is a convenience to my thinking processes, a particular vantage point from which I choose to "see":

Carl Jung that "Anything born in a given moment is of the nature of that moment."
I would carry that a step further and say "Anything born in a given moment is that moment." I see us as manifestations of a Moment in spacetime (the emergence of Consciousness into our realm of reality), the manifestation having duration in spacetime just as the ripples in a pond "live on" beyond the moment a rock strikes the pond.

Regarding transits (and other predictive tools), the idea of duration speaks to that, in part. We must also understand that the transits are preordained (in time) from the moment of birth. The motions of the planets can be predicted for a very long time into the future, and if they depart from a known point of beginning (the birth chart), their "contacts" with sensitive points in that birth chart are foreordained...the Moment which we are fulfills its purpose and destiny just as the unfolding of a flower does.

This is another way of seeing that the future already exists (and our present is always nothing more than the past come to the present.) It's all One, from alpha to omega, from here to there. Earth is a little planet right in the Middle of Heaven. We never left Heaven, and have no need to return. We are there now, and forever, because All is One...it is Consciousness.

Over the years I have read the bible, the story of Jesus, a bit. And it has always seemed to me that Jesus spent an inordinate amount of time "making the blind to see." The message is, it seems to me, "Cast off your blindness, open your eyes and see the Truth. And the truth shall set you free."
 
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