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Modern Astrology For discussions on Modern Astrology only. (Note: Typically, modern astrology is defined as using techniques developed around the late 1800s by Theosophists. Specifically it relies on psychological, evolutionary, karmic, and non-western interpretation approaches and includes Neptune, Uranus and Pluto, and non-Ptolemaic aspects. The focus is more on psychological chart interpretation instead of prediction.)


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  #1  
Unread 02-18-2019, 03:21 AM
The19thLaw The19thLaw is offline
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Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

I looked up signs where Pluto is considered to be exalted and it seems like Aries, Pisces and Leo came up a lot, astrologers cannot agree.

What I do notice is that Aries is exalted in the sun and Pisces exalted in Venus, Leo seems to have no exaltation at all in astrology for some reason. I am not even sure if it is domiciled in any planets.

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Unread 02-18-2019, 03:13 PM
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Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

There really is no debate on what the traditional dignities are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_dignity

When these were determined, the outer planets weren't used yet, so there has been some debate about Uranus and more about Neptune and Pluto and whether they fit into the scheme.
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Unread 02-18-2019, 04:39 PM
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Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

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Originally Posted by Witchyone View Post
There really is no debate on what the traditional dignities are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_dignity

When these were determined, the outer planets weren't used yet, so there has been some debate about Uranus and more about Neptune and Pluto and whether they fit into the scheme.
But we are talking pluto here though.....
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Unread 02-18-2019, 05:09 PM
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Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

The essential dignities: exaltation, domicile, debilitation, and fall come from traditional astrology, which doesn't use Pluto. Some modern astrologers use the dignities or something like them, but it's not a standardized part of modern astrology so there is variance in how they're assigned. Modern astrology is generally less prescriptive and fatalistic than traditional or Vedic, so you don't often see concepts like a planet being in fall.

Here's a discussion on the topic if you wanna get in the weeds.
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...ad.php?t=68194
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Unread 02-19-2019, 04:39 AM
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Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

I don't think assigning exaltations to the modern planets is a good idea. These planets do not fit into the table of essential dignities. And then what actually would you do with an exaltation in modern astrology? As a sign ruler, a modern outerplanet can have utility when looking at house cusps. But knowing that Pluto is exalted in Aries (or whatever) does exactly what? We can consider how a planet operates in a given sign without needing to assign it particular strength (exaltation) or weakness (fall.)

During the lifetimes of most people today, Pluto has been in the signs of Leo through Capricorn. Neptune has moved from Virgo or Libra to Pisces. So most people will not experience a hypothetical exaltation beyond their life span.
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Unread 03-17-2019, 09:16 PM
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Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

I think it is worth a discussion at least.
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Unread 03-18-2019, 05:29 AM
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Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

So what would you actually do with exaltations in modern astrology? What uses would you make of them?
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Unread 03-18-2019, 09:08 PM
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Post Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

I go by the dignities: (traditional or modern in some cases) ruler comes first and foremost, co-ruler (5 of our signs already have them from Scorpio-Pisces said some astrologers), and influence (a form of exaltation planets) - I added dwarf planets Eris and Sedna, and planetoids Ceres and Chiron onto the list.

Aries: Mars, Pluto, Sun.
Taurus: Venus, Ceres, Mercury.
Gemini: Mercury, Eris, Venus.
Cancer: Moon, Ceres, Sun.
Leo: Sun, Moon, Mars.
Virgo: Mercury, Ceres, Jupiter.
Libra: Venus, Eris, Saturn.
Scorpio: Pluto, Mars, Uranus.
Sagittarius: Jupiter, Neptune, Chiron.
Capricorn: Saturn, Uranus, Pluto.
Aquarius: Uranus, Saturn, Eris.
Pisces: Neptune, Jupiter, Sedna.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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Unread 03-19-2019, 01:35 AM
The19thLaw The19thLaw is offline
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Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

Wasn't Capricorn technically exalted in Mars?

What is the relation between Leo and Mars?
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Unread 03-19-2019, 04:33 AM
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Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

Check out the domiciles and exaltations in this table:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html

Planets are exalted in signs, not the other way around.
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Unread 03-19-2019, 06:07 AM
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Smile Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

Rulers are of stronger Chart-influence, and better express their innate natures in some Signs than in others. I refer to "Exalted" as a type of rulership , and have Pluto as Exaltation-ruler of Gemini, Domicile-ruler of Scorpio, and Beneficial-ruler of Aries. Different types of rulerships, rather than Domicled as the only meaning of Sign-rulership.
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Unread 03-19-2019, 06:31 AM
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Post Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The19thLaw View Post
Wasn't Capricorn technically exalted in Mars?

What is the relation between Leo and Mars?
According to astrologers, Mars in Leo placements can make one powerful and hot-tempered, similar to traits associated with Mars and it's ruler sign Aries (and traditionally, Scorpio). US President Donald Trump has a prominent Mars in Leo conjunct his Ascendant combined with Gemini sun and sagittarius Moon.

Now, the parazodiacs, which aren't real signs, but their effects on natal charts and horoscopes are detected in astrology. What are their planetary or solar system celestial body rulers?

Cetus (between pisces and Aries): Neptune and Sedna (Piscean), and Pallas (transgender identities, the last sign and first sign of the zodiac year meets).
Orion (Taurus and Gemini): Lilith, Chiron, and True Node (astrological usage).
Sextans (Cancer and Leo): Moon and Juno (parental signs ruled by them), and sedna (a sea creature Cancer the crab, and dramatic Leo, sign of celebrity and entertainment). I would view constellation Sextans as a "dragon's egg".
Ophiuchus (scorpio and Sagittarius): Chiron (wound healer), Lilith (a Scorpio trait relating to death) and Vesta (it's thought to rule Scorpio in some way).
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!

Last edited by CapAquaPis; 03-20-2019 at 12:27 AM.
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Unread 03-19-2019, 06:37 AM
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Smile Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

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Originally Posted by The19thLaw View Post
Wasn't Capricorn technically exalted in Mars?

What is the relation between Leo and Mars?
I have Mars Domicile-ruler of Aries, and the Sun Domicile-ruler of Leo, identical to the Traditional assignments. Un-Traditionally, I have Mars in Leo providing "catalytic" ability, meaning able to cause changes in whatever field it's applied.
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Unread 03-20-2019, 12:17 AM
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Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

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Originally Posted by The19thLaw View Post
Wasn't Capricorn technically exalted in Mars?

What is the relation between Leo and Mars?
Its found on the Ptolemaic list posted by Waybread (link) Mars exalted in Capricorn ...I suppose the 28th degree means, it is most at it's exaltation here.
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Unread 03-20-2019, 01:45 AM
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Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

Right, although today, we mostly just go by sign.

My real question is, as a modern astrologer, suppose someone declares an exaltation for a modern planet. What exactly does that mean? How would that influence a chart reading?

In traditional western and horary astrology, an exaltation means something about planetary strength.
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Unread 03-20-2019, 05:20 AM
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Smile Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Right, although today, we mostly just go by sign.

My real question is, as a modern astrologer, suppose someone declares an exaltation for a modern planet. What exactly does that mean? How would that influence a chart reading?

In traditional western and horary astrology, an exaltation means something about planetary strength.
Intuitively, Mars in Taurus, which is Traditionally in its Detriment, seems quite strong. Perhaps there's more to the opposite of Domiciled and Exalted than just a lessening of strength. Might have something to do with lower quality of expression.

Last edited by david starling; 03-24-2019 at 07:04 PM.
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Unread 03-24-2019, 05:46 PM
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Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The19thLaw View Post

I looked up signs where Pluto is considered to be exalted
and it seems like Aries, Pisces
and Leo came up a lot, astrologers cannot agree.
What I do notice is that Aries is exalted in the sun
SUN is exalted in ARIES

Quote:
Originally Posted by The19thLaw View Post


and Pisces exalted in Venus,
VENUS is exalted in PISCES

Quote:
Originally Posted by The19thLaw View Post


Leo seems to have no exaltation at all in astrology for some reason.
I am not even sure if it is domiciled in any planets.
on the contrary

SUN is DOMICILED in LEO
i.e.

LEO is the HOME aka DOMICILE of the SUN
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Unread 03-25-2019, 10:23 PM
The19thLaw The19thLaw is offline
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Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

Sun is domiciled in Leo but nothing is really exalted in the sign.
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Unread 03-25-2019, 10:50 PM
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Smile Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The19thLaw View Post
Sun is domiciled in Leo but nothing is really exalted in the sign.
In 12/12, Saturn is Exalted in Leo. But Traditionally, you're right. The signs Leo, Scorpio, and Aquarius lack an Exalted placement in Ptolemy's table of Dignities and Debilities, for example. Same with Vedic--no Exaltation in Leo. Has to do with rulership patterns. There are 7 Domicled rulers for all 12 Signs (7/12). Standard Modern uses a 10/12 system that lacks a coherent pattern of Dignities and Debilities, although I saw one opinion that Neptune is Exalted in Leo, based on intuition. Another was Pluto.
Without a pattern, the 3 Outermosts have to be assigned Exaltations based on intuition. In the 12/12 pattern, in which the Asc and Age-indicator are accorded rulership status along with the 3 Outermosts, Pluto is Exalted in Gemini.

Last edited by david starling; 03-25-2019 at 11:06 PM.
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Unread 03-27-2019, 12:51 AM
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Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

Isn't Saturn in detriment with Leo?
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Unread 03-27-2019, 04:13 AM
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Smile Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

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Originally Posted by The19thLaw View Post
Isn't Saturn in detriment with Leo?
Traditionally, yes. In my 12/12 pattern, no.
Ptolemy had Saturn in Detriment in both Signs in which the Luminaries are Domicled, even though only one, , is opposite Saturn's Domicle, Capricorn. Saturn in is also in Detriment using 12/12, but not Saturn in Leo. Different pattern from 7/12.
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Unread 03-27-2019, 08:39 PM
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Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

Ptolemy never mentions detriment.
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Unread 03-27-2019, 09:04 PM
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Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Traditionally, yes..
Ptolemy had Saturn in Detriment in both Signs in which the Luminaries are Domicled,

even though only one, , is opposite Saturn's Domicle, Capricorn
.
BUT
because you are a modernist astrologer
you have not read Ptolemy
and so the above is misinformation with reference to Ptolemy

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Ptolemy never mentions detriment.
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Last edited by JUPITERASC; 03-27-2019 at 09:06 PM.
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Unread 03-27-2019, 09:08 PM
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Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

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Originally Posted by The19thLaw View Post


Sun is domiciled in Leo
but nothing is really exalted in the sign.
Quite
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Unread 03-27-2019, 09:32 PM
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Smile Re: Debate about exaltation of Pluto: Aries, Pisces or Leo?

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Ptolemy never mentions detriment.
Someone at Skyscript got it wrong then. You should tell them.
www.skyscript.co.uk/dig2.html
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