She saw dead people-Pluto in 12th

Alright folks, George here. Just thought I'd write a bit about my late Grandmother, who had Pluto in 12th conjunct ascendant.

She saw spirits all her life-on one occasion seeing a terminally ill neighbour standing at her gate looking much better, and had a talk with her, only to be told she'd passed in the night. At work once she got into a lift and said hello to a man in there, only for the sound of rattling chains to be heard and he disappeared.

She was involved in a traumatic occurrence when she was younger-trapped under a steel bar whilst swimming.

I read somewhere that Pluto could symbolise the grandmother in the chart, and indeed, when I was born I looked so similar to my Grandmother my mum said 'Oh, it's my mum come to see me again.' I also have Pluto conjunct ascendant, a sort of reincarnation thing going on...

I'd just like to know if anyone else shares this placement and has any stories.

Regards,

George

I've seen ghosts dozens of times - heard them - been poked and hit by them. I've seen objects move, seen moving lights, and so on. My Pluto is nowhere near the ASC. There is probably some other placement in her chart - can you post it here?

Hello George, welcome to AstroWeekly.

I am a bit curious about your post (in part because I also have Pluto in 12th), but there are a few things it might be helpful to clarify:

What sign is your Grandmother's 12th and Pluto in? How about your 12th and Pluto?

What exactly are you curious about? Do you want to know if her Pluto was responsible for your Grandmother's ability? Because it is probably more complicated than the one placement.

If not, then are you wondering if you could inherit seeing spirits because you take after your Grandmother and have a similar placement (though not in the same sign, I'd bet, so that does make a difference)?

In any case, I would be willing to say that this isn't a Pluto in 12th thing (and not just because I can't do it! ). What's going on around her Neptune? And for that matter, Mercury?

In response to your last sentence, I don't yet know if there are any especially Plutonian things going on around me.
Maybe there are more people with this placement who feel like sharing?

I've noticed that where ever Pluto is, there lies the strongest House of the native. Yet a Pluto conjuncting AC isn't much about 12th any more..

I'll second the Neptune idea and ask you if you're sure about the time of birth, meaning the AC, George.

Welcome,

Lena

interesting thread. was her pluto sextile or trine neptune? what about pluto's aspects to chiron?

ashriia said:

interesting thread. was her pluto sextile or trine neptune? what about pluto's aspects to chiron?

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I seriously doubt Pluto could trine Neptune in her natal.
Nep~con~Pluto in 1880 and the only Ptolemaic aspect they formed ever sinse was sextile..
I could be wrong though.

Pluto in natal may not be particular important maybe transit . Also Pluto can be more interesting along with Uranus and Neptune. My boyfriend told me the other day midpoint of mercury/Uranus/Neptune are particularly interesting. Mercury=Uranus/Neptune is strongly associated with supernatural event. There are few more different combinations but the suspect would be Uranus and Neptune also and when to do with visual, auditory, physical experience of such paranormal activities would be these outer making contact as midpoint to the Luminaries, AC/DC, vertex axis perhaps, mercury, perhaps also Mars and Saturn to show harm and fear. I strongly believe midpoints have much more potent influences than oridinary natal aspects, and simple transit or progressions but when in the format of midpoints it will be highly specific as the mutiple planets focus together to manifest something together to show mutiple layers of impacts at highly personally level. But midpoints only are reliable when you have accurate birth time which is why not all having those aspects manifesting such event the same way.

Sorry if the post was a little vague and scattered-Mercury in 12th opposed by Jupiter.

Anyway guys, I'm embarrassed to admit that I got her chart wrong. Pluto isn't in the twelfth nor conjunct ascendant. However, she has a lot of Neptune in her chart:

*Neptune sextile Mercury
*Neptune square ascendant
*Neptune sextile Venus
*Neptune sextile Mars

Her birthchart:

11:45 am 28/09/1928

Erkelnez, Germany.

See you later,

George

Looking at that chart, Neptune is sextile Mercury to within a few minutes, with Mercury in the 12th. That would definitely do it. Also, Moon is likely in Pisces, which Neptune rules. Depending on the birth time, Moon could also be exactly trine Pluto, which also would do it.

Many people would share the same aspects of mercury and moon to those outer planets. Personally I would think more specific indicators would be needed to confirm this claim astrologically.

Hi george
When i first read your thread, my conclusion was that in addition to Pluto on the ascendant , she had to have the dragon axis on the ascendant. Seeing you correction about Plutos placement did not change my view which turned out to be correct .your grandmother had the nodal axis conjunct e ascendant axis. Within3 degrees. I think her time could be rectified as her abilities would place the dragon head on her descendant exactly.
The nodal axis on the ascendant axis is the single powerful indication of psychic ability and direct access to the astral plane. that her psychic abilities entailed see ing the dead etc. Pluto must definitely be aspected to the node/ac. here Pluto is semi square to the node. The connection to matters of death is reinforced by the exact square to nessus to Pluto and their midpoint being conjunct the nodal axis to a degree.
With Neptune square the ascendant and the node , she had another symbol that gives visions and psychic powers.

In addition it is clear that she had strong psychic abilities in any matters ,not just pertaining to death, as the sun is opposed to Uranus. This puts her on the astral plane. this aspect is associated with radical behavior that can be misunderstood by lesser endowed beings.
But that her major focus was seeing and communicating with being on the” otherside” is shows clearly by the mercury/Uranus midpoint being square to Pluto.

In summation, your grandmother was blessed by nearly all aspects of spiritual/psychic abilities.

rahu

Absolutely classic George

She has Pluto, ruler of the Ascendant, conjunct the Vertex in the 8th house and involved in a septile pattern with Mercury and Uranus.

Pluto also has a biquintile running to Saturn in the first.

See my articles on psychics here: http://aliceportman.com/category/psychics/

I know a number of psychics of various types and have done quite a bit of research in this area.

Seeing dead people is not all that uncommon, I have a few stories myself! However, I think your grandmother was a powerful psychic with considerable skills and not just in the clear seeing area.

Alice

5 degree orb for the vertex with an unconscious planet?

rahu

rahu said:

5 degree orb for the vertex with an unconscious planet?

rahu

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Its not just Pluto conjunct the Vertex, but the septile pattern and the biquintile aspect running off Pluto that gives this kind of talent.

If her time of birth is exact, her talents were activated by Solar Arc and Secondary Progression when she was five years old. As we aren't sure of the exact time of her birth and the angle moves at approximately a degree every four minutes, they could have been activated earlier if she was born a little later or a little later if she was born a little earlier.

Anything activated before the first Saturn square Saturn at approximately 7 years of age is imprinted directly into the psyche and becomes part of the karmic life cycle. http://aliceportman.com/saturn-transits-in-infancy/

This is why I use an orb of 6-7 degrees for hard aspects, depending upon when the first Saturn square Saturn occurs for each individual. Anything triggered after that is more likely to be processed by the conscious mind.

Alice

i've studied psychic phenomena for 40 years and have never seen a biquintile with saturn and pluto having anything to with these abilities. if anyhting this biquintile inhibits many type of sensitivities.
the septiles do have a broad impact of many things such as crearivity and spiritual pursuits, but the aspect is so commom i would expect many more people showing overt psychic abilities with this aspect.

whereas the node on the ascendant is correlated with psychic abilites about 90 % of the time.

rahu

Can someone cultivate psychic abilities without throughout their life, without having the gift from a young age?Or it is something you can only "inherit" astrologically?

oh yea
we are all psychic beings, we are all astral beings because the soul moves in and out of incarnation through these planes.

it is an old cliche but meditating and learning how to keep the mind still and quiet will bring these abilities out.

it seems that the laws of karma at play , since if a soul nat a particular time ,then these abilities are not latent but are manifest.
you must keep in mind tha we live in a materialistic culture that strives to keep the psychic/spiritual side blocked so that the spiritutal/psychic controls used by the powers that be ,can not be seen to combatted.

rahu

rahu said:

i've studied psychic phenomena for 40 years and have never seen a biquintile with saturn and pluto having anything to with these abilities. if anyhting this biquintile inhibits many type of sensitivities.
the septiles do have a broad impact of many things such as crearivity and spiritual pursuits, but the aspect is so commom i would expect many more people showing overt psychic abilities with this aspect.

whereas the node on the ascendant is correlated with psychic abilites about 90 % of the time.

rahu

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Oh dear rahu

[deleted non-astrological comments - Moderator]

It is the biquintile involving the Vertex axis or a planet conjunct the Vertex axis that provides one of the 'clair' type of skills. It doesn't matter what planets are involved. However, a biquintile between Pluto conjunct Vertex in the 8th house and Saturn seems very appropriate for being able to see dead people.

The septile aspects involving the Vertex axis or planets conjunct the Vertex axis gives considerable psychic skills, but these people tend to be modest and rarely go public unless a quintile or biquintile pattern is also present.

Septile patterns involving the Vertex axis are quite rare and most of the private psychics I have studied have this; the few that don't do have a close septile aspect to the one side of the Vertex axis.

As the septile aspect describes seeking after knowledge and/or wisdom and the Vertex axis is the doorway to other realities, the connection between the two seems to fit very well.

I know lots of people who have the Moon's Nodes straddling the Ascendant-Descendant axis and few of them are very psychic. Those who are usually have the Vertex axis emphasized in the way I have described above, so I don't know where you get the 90% figure you have mentioned. My own studies don't confirm that figure with the data on psychics in my private collection.

I have noticed that the nodal axis in close conjunction with a planet can give some intense experiences in life and some with this placement are very psychic, but they also have the Vertex activation I have mentioned.

Alice

TamaraL said:

Can someone cultivate psychic abilities without throughout their life, without having the gift from a young age?Or it is something you can only "inherit" astrologically?

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Everyone has the ability - but like musical ability or athletic ability, some are naturally better at it than others. But anyone can learn to play the piano, if they want.

According to the Egyptian philosophy/mythology, we normally only aware of 5 main senses when we actually have 360 senses.