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  #26  
Unread 11-29-2019, 04:09 AM
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Re: The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac

How long do you figure thinking intelligent people have existed?

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  #27  
Unread 11-29-2019, 04:12 AM
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Re: The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac

I believe we are in Aquarius, that it is seen on the horizon in the East at spring equinox is not surprising to me. I see the Uranian influences.
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  #28  
Unread 11-29-2019, 06:14 AM
Kiril stoychev Kiril stoychev is offline
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Re: The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac

no, i didn't read this book

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Have you read Thomas H Burgoyne by chance?

His theories are very interesting.

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  #29  
Unread 11-29-2019, 01:55 PM
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Re: The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac

What a strange answer, it must be a weird translation from Bulgarian. I did not say you were anything.
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  #30  
Unread 11-29-2019, 01:58 PM
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Re: The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac

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What a strange answer, it must be a weird translation from Bulgarian.
I did not say you were anything.
ours is an international forum and language issues are common
such as for example thinking translations are weird from other languages
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  #31  
Unread 11-29-2019, 03:38 PM
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Re: The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac and Aquarian Age

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Originally Posted by Kiril stoychev View Post
I share in this forum one of my studies on the origin of the zodiac:

The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac:

http://astrohoroscope.info/stoycheff/?p=367


Summary: Historical development of the concept of zodiac signs. Why is there a 8-9 day difference between the start of the season and the beginning of the month in today’s calendar? Which comes first – the constellations, zodiac signs, or the calendar? Where did zodiac signs come from?

We also have the question whether the names of the constellations attributed to the meaning of the signs, or is there another mechanism that explains why each sign has its specific characterizations?

Another question that needs answers is whether the meaning (the characteristic) of a sign, for example Aries, is somehow related to the zodiacal constellations, to the sidereal or to the tropical zodiac.


When did the Age of Aquarius begin, if we use the method of observing the stars with the naked eye, as the Sumerians and Babylonians did?
I notice that moderators have transferred your thread to our MUNDANE ASTRLOGY board

we often request a sidereal board, but so far received negative response
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  #32  
Unread 11-29-2019, 04:04 PM
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Re: The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac and Aquarian Age

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I notice that moderators have transferred your thread to our MUNDANE ASTRLOGY board

we often request a sidereal board, but so far received negative response
now it is in advertising, weird that we don't have a sidereal board.
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  #33  
Unread 11-29-2019, 08:55 PM
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Re: A new perspective on the exaltation and The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac an

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Originally Posted by Kiril stoychev View Post
Summary: Historical development of the concept of zodiac signs. Why is there a 8-9 day difference between the start of the season and the beginning of the month in todays calendar? Which comes first the constellations, zodiac signs, or the calendar? Where did zodiac signs come from?
Hi Kiril stoychev,

I don't see where it is relevant.

Most calendar systems are artificial. Although we used the Gregorian Calendar, we still celebrated New Years on the first day of Spring until about 3 centuries ago.

Ancient civilizations used a natural calendar with New Year falling on the day of the vernal equinox. Each month was 30 days. There were 12 months, so 360 days.

At the end of the 360 days was a giant festival over what I call the 5 "nether days" although very infrequently there were 4 or 6 nether days.

The fact that we now have an artificial calendar system superimposed on an artificial time-keeping system doesn't have any bearing on anything.

So, the 8-9 day difference means nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril stoychev View Post
The main point in my article is that the names and meanings given to the zodiacal constellations are derived from the 12 months of the ancient Sumerian calendar. In other words, the zodiac has a tropical (related to the turning points of the Sun) origin.
That is not what happened. Not even close.

Sumerian Signs & Constellations (English transliteration):

sim.mach = fishes (Pisces)
ku.mal = field dweller (Aries)
gu.an.na = heavenly bull (Taurus)
mash.tab.ba = twins (Gemini)
dub = pincers (Cancer)
ab.sin = her father was Sin [the Moon god] (Virgo)
zi.ba.an.na = heavenly fate (Libra)
gir.tab = that which claws (Scorpio)
pa.bil = defender (Sagittarius)
suchur,mash = goat-fish (Capricorn)
gu = lord of the waters (Aquarius)

Sumerian Months (English transliteration with Akkadian () and Hebrew [] for comparison):

bara.za.nar = throne of the sanctuary (Nisanu) [Nisan]
gu.si.su = the horned oxen marched forth (Ayaru) [Yiar]
sig.ga = the bricks are set in molds (Simanu) [Sivan]
shu.nu.mun = to pour grain (Dumuzu) [Tamuz]*
ne.ne.gar = time of ghosts (Abu) (Av)
kin.i.nan.na = work of Inanna (Ululu) [Elul]**
du.ku = sacred mound festival (Tashritu) [Tishri]
apin.du.a = plow is let go (Araxshamnu) [Marxeshvan]
gan.gan.e = when clouds come (Kislimu) [Kisev]
ku.su = to lie [down] and spread (Tabetu) [Tevet]
ziz.a = flood emmer [wheat] crop (Shabatu) [Shvat]
she.kin.ku = harvest festival Enlil (Adaru) [Adar]


*Dumuzu and Tamuz are Sumerian god Dumuzi

** Ululu/Elul = "daughter of El" El = Enlil and Enlil's daughter was Inanna

The Hebrews used a 6 month calendar of 2 months each until the Babylonian Captivity at which time they adopted the 6,000 year Nippurian Calendar (ending in 2240 CE) and the 12 month scheme.

You might want to rethink your claim that constellations and signs are derived from months.

There is no relationship between the signs and the months, unless you think Leo is about ghosts.

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We also have the question whether the names of the constellations attributed to the meaning of the signs, or is there another mechanism that explains why each sign has its specific characterizations?
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Originally Posted by Kiril stoychev View Post
Another question that needs answers is whether the meaning (the characteristic) of a sign, for example Aries, is somehow related to the zodiacal constellations, to the sidereal or to the tropical zodiac.
Why do you insist on complicating everything?

Constellations Signs

Signs Constellations

Constellations have no meaning. Constellations are irrelevant. Constellations play no role in astrology.

The constellations were created as a mnemonic and symbolic device to aid in memory. The shapes are the things people knew or loved. Take the Twins (Gemini). That's Shamash and Sin, the Sun and Moon god who were beloved by the people and who were sons of Enlil. Sin's daughter (whose real name escapes me) was minor goddess of agriculture and beloved by the people. The he-goat (Capricorn) is probably Enki or his son Ningishiddza and the archer (Sagittarius) is probably Ninurta/El Shaddai. Everything else is what people saw every day and were familiar with.

What do you do in Iraq circa 9,500 BCE? You farm 24/7 all year round.

Maybe that's not how it is where you are, but that's how it is in Iraq.

How do you know when to do what?

Can't use Sun. Can't use Moon. But you can use the stars.

When you see this star rising (in December) that's when you start clearing and prepping your fields so when the next start rises (in January) you plant your onions.

When you see this star rising (in March) that's when you harvest your onions.

When you see this star rising (in October) that's when you start clearing and prepping your fields so that when the next star rises in (November) you plant beans and flax (which is used for clothing and rope and other things).

When you see this star rising (in February) that's when you harvest your beans and another star rising (in May) tells you to harvest the flax.

When you see this star rising (in August) that's when you clear, prep and plant chickpeas (garbanzo beans).

Much, much later when you see a star rising (in June) you harvest those chickpeas.

When you see a star rising (in April) you plant sesame and when you see another star rising (in September) you harvest your sesame.

The same for millet and different types of wheat, like emmer.

And for the record, that's all taken from a clay tablet found at Sippar. Those are some of the actual crops and when they planted/harvested them.

If you have herds, the rising stars tell you when to move to other pastures/grazing lands, when to put the boy animals with the girl animals to make baby animals and when to slaughter, because you don't slaughter pigs, cows, goats or sheep at the same time for very logical reasons.

After at time, it will be painfully obvious that the stars have moved and are no longer useful as guides.

What do to?

Create a calendar. To create an accurate calendar, you need a constant for a fixed Time Point Zero and what's the one constant that everyone is absolutely certain?

The Sun moving from the south point to rise on the equator on the spring equinox. That's your Time-Point Zero. That never changes. If it ever should change, then it's because Earth or Sun (or both) are destroyed or the solar system has been completely disrupted, in which case it won't matter since we'll all be dead.

Since Earth is a sphere and the numbers 360 and 12 were sacred numbers (because we all have 12 digits on our hands) it's a simple matter of:

360 degrees / 12 = 30 degrees/days

The sign of Aries, no, not the constellation, the sign of Aries was fixed at Time-Point Zero.

Why Aries?

Because they were in the Age of Aries? No. The calendar and signs were devised before the Age of Taurus.

Thema Mundi. Aries is the start point. Why?

Because the numbers 6, 12 and 360 are sacred numbers.

6 * 12 * 360 = 25,920

6 * 12 = 72

25,920 / 360 = 72

72 is the number of years it takes Earth to retard 1 degree. That's precession.

25,920 / 12 = 2,160 years which is an "astrological age."

The number 3,600 is a sacred number, too.

Ever read Genesis 6?

The King Joke Vision says "Man's days were 120 years."

The morons who wrote the King Joke Vision and think they know god (but don't) and think they're connected to god (but aren't) couldn't translate anything to save their lives.

The root "shnh" (shaneh) is an archaic Semitic root stemming from the Sumerian sar (shar in English transliteration) which is a great year, or age, of 3,600 years.

So, it actually reads, "Man's days were 120 ages" not years.

120 * 3,600 = 432,000 years.

Thus, "Man's days were 432,000 years."

That's hardly shocking and it's not like we haven't seen it before.

In Nordic myth on the Day of Ragnorook 800 warriors will exit from each of the 540 doors of Valhalla:

800 * 540 = 432,000

In Germanic myth, Woddan's walled palace has 800 gates and 540 warriors exit those gates.

800 * 540 = 432,000

There are four yugas: Satya Yuga (4,000 sacred years), Treta Yuga (3,000 sacred years), Dwapar Yuga 2,000 sacred years), and Kali Yuga where we are now is 1,000 sacred years.

An Indian sacred year is 432,000 years.

In the Sumerian pre-Deluge King List you can clearly see it:

Aloros 36,000 years
Alaparos 10,800 years
Amelon 46,800 years
Ammenon 43,200 years
Amegalaros 64,800 years
Daonos 36,000 years
Euedorachos 64,800 years
Amempsinos 36,000 years
Otiartes 28,800 years
Xisouthros 64,800 years

Add those up and you get 432,000 years. And then the Deluge happens.

The Sumerians and others believed Earth was 4,320,000,000 (4.32 Billion) years old. Science says 4.5 Billion, but who's counting?

Run precession back to 4.32 Billion years and you get Aries, which is why Aries is first on the Thema Mundi and why Aries is Time-Point Zero on the tropical zodiac.

I just don't see why people make things so difficult.

Yes, I understand that the Greeks really cloud the issue and confuse people because the Greek word for sign is the same word for constellation, but if you look at the context, you can usually tell when they mean "sign" and when they mean "constellation."

The meaning of the signs, not the constellations, the signs is derived from their relationship to Sun and the seasons based on the Thema Mundi using Aries as Time-Point Zero based on the belief that Earth is 4.32 Billion years old.
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  #34  
Unread 11-29-2019, 09:08 PM
AJ Astrology AJ Astrology is offline
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Re: The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac and Aquarian Age

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now it is in advertising, weird that we don't have a sidereal board.
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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
I notice that moderators have transferred your thread to our MUNDANE ASTRLOGY board

we often request a sidereal board, but so far received negative response
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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
we need a sidereal board
Babylonian is nevertheless traditional
Hi Opal and JUPITERASC,

Yes, we need a Fail Board.

23,892 charts. Tropical works. Sidereal doesn't work.

You'd have to read 401 sidereal charts in the hopes of getting even one chart remotely close to being right.

How much more proof do you want?

I guess some people just have to fail before they learn.

You do realize that sidereal relies on a fixed star for Time-Point Zero, yeah? And you realize nobody has a clue what fixed star the Babylonians actually used, yeah?

That's why there's like a dozen different ayanamsas, because nobody has a clue. They think they do, but they don't.

When you all figure out which fixed star the Babylonians actually used for Time-Point Zero, let us know. And maybe you all won't fail so badly.
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  #35  
Unread 11-29-2019, 09:23 PM
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Re: The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac and Aquarian Age

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now it is in advertising, weird that we don't have a sidereal board.
so much sidereal discussion on our boards
and no western sidereal boards
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  #36  
Unread 11-29-2019, 09:26 PM
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Re: The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac and Aquarian Age

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Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post


Hi Opal and JUPITERASC,

Yes, we need a Fail Board.
for your comments - for example the following

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post


23,892 charts. Tropical works. Sidereal doesn't work.

You'd have to read 401 sidereal charts in the hopes of getting even one chart remotely close to being right.

How much more proof do you want?

I guess some people just have to fail before they learn.

You do realize that sidereal relies on a fixed star for Time-Point Zero, yeah? And you realize nobody has a clue what fixed star the Babylonians actually used, yeah?

That's why there's like a dozen different ayanamsas, because nobody has a clue. They think they do, but they don't.

When you all figure out which fixed star the Babylonians actually used for Time-Point Zero, let us know. And maybe you all won't fail so badly.
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  #37  
Unread 11-29-2019, 09:43 PM
Kiril stoychev Kiril stoychev is offline
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Re: A new perspective on the exaltation and The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac an

Hi AJ Astrology,
Thanks for the comprehensive post on the topic.
In many places it overlaps with what I claim.

The tropical zodiac works, not because someone created it, but because the life on earth is directly related to the energy (light and heat) we receive from the Sun.

The tropical zodiac (as well as the calendar) is a reflection of reality and time. We measure time thanks to the sun and the moon. The calendar shows the amount of time and the tropical zodiac its quality.


Thema Mundi is not a real chart, but a study chart, according to Firmicus Maternus

Last edited by Kiril stoychev; 11-29-2019 at 09:49 PM.
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  #38  
Unread 11-29-2019, 10:26 PM
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Re: The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac and Aquarian Age

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Hi Opal and JUPITERASC,

Yes, we need a Fail Board.

23,892 charts. Tropical works. Sidereal doesn't work.

You'd have to read 401 sidereal charts in the hopes of getting even one chart remotely close to being right.

How much more proof do you want?

I guess some people just have to fail before they learn.

You do realize that sidereal relies on a fixed star for Time-Point Zero, yeah? And you realize nobody has a clue what fixed star the Babylonians actually used, yeah?

That's why there's like a dozen different ayanamsas, because nobody has a clue. They think they do, but they don't.

When you all figure out which fixed star the Babylonians actually used for Time-Point Zero, let us know. And maybe you all won't fail so badly.
You start every post, that I have seen, to everyone in every thread, with an insult. It must be because of your insecurities in life.

I have no idea what you write. I read your insult to whoever you have chosen to respond to, and read no further. It is handy. I don't even need ignore.
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  #39  
Unread 11-29-2019, 10:44 PM
Kiril stoychev Kiril stoychev is offline
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Re: A new perspective on the exaltation and The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac an

Sumerian's translation and even spelling of the months is not quite accurate. The first month is "BARA2-ZA3-GAR". Translation according to the leading Russian sumerologist Dr. Emelianov is "Renewal of throne of the sanctuary = intronization, a coronation, crowning ceremony"
----------------



If you want to learn more about this topic, you should read his book, unfortunately only in Russian:
Emelianov, Vladimir. Nippur calendar and the early history of the zodiac. St. Petersburg Oriental Studies. 1999.







Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post


Sumerian Months (English transliteration with Akkadian () and Hebrew [] for comparison):

bara.za.nar = throne of the sanctuary (Nisanu) [Nisan]
gu.si.su = the horned oxen marched forth (Ayaru) [Yiar]
sig.ga = the bricks are set in molds (Simanu) [Sivan]
shu.nu.mun = to pour grain (Dumuzu) [Tamuz]*
ne.ne.gar = time of ghosts (Abu) (Av)
kin.i.nan.na = work of Inanna (Ululu) [Elul]**
du.ku = sacred mound festival (Tashritu) [Tishri]
apin.du.a = plow is let go (Araxshamnu) [Marxeshvan]
gan.gan.e = when clouds come (Kislimu) [Kisev]
ku.su = to lie [down] and spread (Tabetu) [Tevet]
ziz.a = flood emmer [wheat] crop (Shabatu) [Shvat]
she.kin.ku = harvest festival Enlil (Adaru) [Adar]
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  #40  
Unread 11-29-2019, 11:55 PM
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Re: A new perspective on the exaltation and The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac an

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the idea of there being "Astrological Ages" is not considered a traditional topic
Hi JUIPITERASC,

That much is true. Ages are a modern astrology concept. It has no place in traditional astrology because nobody ever cared about the ages.

They did have huge festivals when they changed from Gemini to Taurus and Taurus to Aries.


Sun rises in Aquarius in:

2499 (Fagen)
2207 (Deluce/Lahiri)
2602 (Raman)
2511 (Krishnamurti)
2779 (Ushanashi)
2201 (Djwhal Khul)
2601 (Sundara Rajan)
2702 (Sri Yuktessar)
2222 (Ely)
2500 (Takra)

Maybe you all can figure which one of those very fine sidereal systems is the real one.

Kinda reminds me of modern astrology. We can argue what Pluto actually does and then when we get tired of doing that, we can argue about whether Pluto is really a planet. And then when get tired of arguing about whether Pluto is planet, we can go back and argue about what Pluto really does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril stoychev View Post
About the Ages: They are not related to what we can calculate, but to what we can see with the naked eye
Hi Kiril stoychev,

The rising of Sun on the vernal equinox is what marked the change.

I'll explain that......

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When the Sphinx was created, he looked East to the constellation of Leo. As you are showing.
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Originally Posted by Kiril stoychev View Post
When exactly Sphinx was created?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opal View Post
I would say in one of the ages of Leo. I cannot determine which one.
....there's a clay tablet that lists the ages from Pisces to Taurus with commentary for all except Taurus, presumably because the tablet was written during the age of Taurus.

The tablet is broken so it's not possible to read the comments for Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn and Sagittarius, and only part of Scorpio, but there is commentary for Libra, Virgo, Leo, Cancer and Gemini.

The comment for Leo is that a sphinx was built in Egypt to mark the Deluge. Since they were usually in pairs, I'd guess there might have been a second sphinx on the Saudi Peninsula across the Red Sea, or maybe even in India.

What does that have to do with ages?

The Sumerian story of the Deluge is that Nergal has an observatory in his domain in southern Africa and sees something in the heavens. It never says what exactly he saw, but a reasonable guess is an asteroid or comet. He calls his father Enki and brother Ningishiddza to confirm it. They send for Marduk who comes down and says, yeah I see what you're seeing.

The four of them go to Enlil and tell him this thing is going to happen and wipe out most humans. Enlil calls an emergency council of the gods, tells them what's going to happen and then makes them swear an oath of secrecy to not tell any humans of the pending disaster.

According to the Sumerians, Enki and his half-sister Ninhursag and son Ningishiddza create humans and Enki loves humans.

Enki wanted to give humans knowledge, but Enlil and two of his sons Ninurta/El Shaddai and Adad say no, but Enki does it anyway and makes Enlil mad. The Hebrews perverted that story into a morality play, but the serpent in the Garden of Eden is Enki, who like his son Ningishiddza was a "serpent god" and their symbol was two snakes entwined on a pole, the caduceus the symbol for the medical profession today.

Enki finds a way to tell his faithful servant Ziursurda without violating his oath of secrecy how to build a certain ship and the name of a man who can navigate the ship.

The Deluge lasts 3-5 days and the gods, where ever they were watching it all were horrified and started crying. When it's over, the gods are walking around and Enlil sees smoke from a camp-fire. He knows Enki tricked him again, but he isn't mad, he's actually happy. Enlil finds Ziusurda and entourage and promises that nothing like this will ever happen again, a rainbow appears in the sky and Enlil says that's a symbol of our promise to you.

Now, fast forward a few ages to the end of the age of Taurus.

Previously, the gods had divided duties on Earth by drawing lots. An drew the short straw and got the heavens, Enlil got Eurasia and Enki got Africa, plus Enlil was in charge of Earth....

...until the age of Aries. When Aries came, Enki was supposed to take over and rule Earth, but he had no desire to rule so he gave the honor to his son Marduk.

Marduk is at his brother Nergal's observatory in southern Africa, then goes to the council of gods and says, hey, we're in Aries. I'm supposed to be ruling now.

The gods say, no, we're still in the age of Taurus. Marduk says, no, when the Deluge happened, it did something to Earth to mess up the skies. We're supposed be in Aries. The gods say, we don't care what happened, you can start ruling just as soon as Sun rises in Aries.

Marduk gets mad and declares war on the gods (except his father Enki who decided to sit it out).

Marduk's first-born son is Nabu, like King Nebuchadnezzar which means something like blessed of Nabu or beloved of Nabu or something like that. Nabu is commanding Marduk's armies, who happen to be located in the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Ninurta/El Shaddai, one of Enlil's sons and Nergal a son of Enki destroy Sodom and Gomorrah in an attempt to destroy Marduk's armies. That's another story the Hebrews turned into just another morality play. They are successful, but it doesn't matter because Marduk ends up winning the war anyway.

If you're wondering what Marduk was talking about, there are impact sites in Canada and the US dated to 12,000 years ago during the age of Leo.

The friction in Earth's atmosphere will cause smaller asteroids and comets to oblate, which is a fancy way of saying "deform." Pieces break off and those impact sites suggest that's exactly what happened.

You can imagine an asteroid or comet landing in the south Pacific Ocean. It would generate a tsunami. It might even melt or partially melt one of the ice sheets on Antarctica and make it worse.

The tsunami, or the asteroid impact, or both could retard the rotational speed of Earth. Not by much. Maybe one-one hundredth of a second (0.01).

That's not a lot. We'd never notice that.

But over a long period of time, say 10,000 years, that 0.01 second turns into 36,500" of arc which is 608' of arc which is 10 degrees of arc.

You can see why Marduk might be very angry if he thought things were off-kilter by a few degrees of arc.


Anyway, they marked ages by sunrise on the equinox, and I think it's reasonably clear they were referring to constellations and not signs.
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Unread 11-30-2019, 12:42 AM
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Re: A new perspective on the exaltation and The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac an

A team of renowned scholars
has come together to go beyond the surface-level myths
artifacts, and mysteries
found in ancient texts and lost cities from around the world.
Journey to decipher the code scattered throughout ancient civilizations.


The Instructions of Enki - Ancient Sumerian Records Wide Open
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibd4Q5K1aqw&t=29s


Most Sumerian literature is preserved indirectly, via Assyrian or Babylonian copies.
The Sumerians invented one of the first writing systems,
developing Sumerian cuneiform writing out of earlier proto-writing systems
by about the 30th century BC.
The earliest literary texts appear from about the 27th century BC.
New Sumerian Tablets of Creation Documentary 2018 Original Texts Exposed Bare
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykVwsJaHqik

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post
Hi JUIPITERASC,

That much is true. Ages are a modern astrology concept. It has no place in traditional astrology because nobody ever cared about the ages.

They did have huge festivals when they changed from Gemini to Taurus and Taurus to Aries.


Sun rises in Aquarius in:

2499 (Fagen)
2207 (Deluce/Lahiri)
2602 (Raman)
2511 (Krishnamurti)
2779 (Ushanashi)
2201 (Djwhal Khul)
2601 (Sundara Rajan)
2702 (Sri Yuktessar)
2222 (Ely)
2500 (Takra)

Maybe you all can figure which one of those very fine sidereal systems is the real one.

Kinda reminds me of modern astrology. We can argue what Pluto actually does and then when we get tired of doing that, we can argue about whether Pluto is really a planet. And then when get tired of arguing about whether Pluto is planet, we can go back and argue about what Pluto really does.


Hi Kiril stoychev,
The rising of Sun on the vernal equinox is what marked the change.
I'll explain that......


....there's a clay tablet that lists the ages from Pisces to Taurus with commentary for all except Taurus, presumably because the tablet was written during the age of Taurus.

The tablet is broken so it's not possible to read the comments for Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn and Sagittarius, and only part of Scorpio, but there is commentary for Libra, Virgo, Leo, Cancer and Gemini.

The comment for Leo is that a sphinx was built in Egypt to mark the Deluge. Since they were usually in pairs, I'd guess there might have been a second sphinx on the Saudi Peninsula across the Red Sea, or maybe even in India.

What does that have to do with ages?

The Sumerian story of the Deluge is that Nergal has an observatory in his domain in southern Africa and sees something in the heavens. It never says what exactly he saw, but a reasonable guess is an asteroid or comet. He calls his father Enki and brother Ningishiddza to confirm it. They send for Marduk who comes down and says, yeah I see what you're seeing.

The four of them go to Enlil and tell him this thing is going to happen and wipe out most humans. Enlil calls an emergency council of the gods, tells them what's going to happen and then makes them swear an oath of secrecy to not tell any humans of the pending disaster.

According to the Sumerians, Enki and his half-sister Ninhursag and son Ningishiddza create humans and Enki loves humans.

Enki wanted to give humans knowledge, but Enlil and two of his sons Ninurta/El Shaddai and Adad say no, but Enki does it anyway and makes Enlil mad. The Hebrews perverted that story into a morality play, but the serpent in the Garden of Eden is Enki, who like his son Ningishiddza was a "serpent god" and their symbol was two snakes entwined on a pole, the caduceus the symbol for the medical profession today.

Enki finds a way to tell his faithful servant Ziursurda without violating his oath of secrecy how to build a certain ship and the name of a man who can navigate the ship.

The Deluge lasts 3-5 days and the gods, where ever they were watching it all were horrified and started crying. When it's over, the gods are walking around and Enlil sees smoke from a camp-fire. He knows Enki tricked him again, but he isn't mad, he's actually happy. Enlil finds Ziusurda and entourage and promises that nothing like this will ever happen again, a rainbow appears in the sky and Enlil says that's a symbol of our promise to you.

Now, fast forward a few ages to the end of the age of Taurus.

Previously, the gods had divided duties on Earth by drawing lots. An drew the short straw and got the heavens, Enlil got Eurasia and Enki got Africa, plus Enlil was in charge of Earth....

...until the age of Aries. When Aries came, Enki was supposed to take over and rule Earth, but he had no desire to rule so he gave the honor to his son Marduk.

Marduk is at his brother Nergal's observatory in southern Africa, then goes to the council of gods and says, hey, we're in Aries. I'm supposed to be ruling now.

The gods say, no, we're still in the age of Taurus. Marduk says, no, when the Deluge happened, it did something to Earth to mess up the skies. We're supposed be in Aries. The gods say, we don't care what happened, you can start ruling just as soon as Sun rises in Aries.

Marduk gets mad and declares war on the gods (except his father Enki who decided to sit it out).

Marduk's first-born son is Nabu, like King Nebuchadnezzar which means something like blessed of Nabu or beloved of Nabu or something like that. Nabu is commanding Marduk's armies, who happen to be located in the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Ninurta/El Shaddai, one of Enlil's sons and Nergal a son of Enki destroy Sodom and Gomorrah in an attempt to destroy Marduk's armies. That's another story the Hebrews turned into just another morality play. They are successful, but it doesn't matter because Marduk ends up winning the war anyway.

If you're wondering what Marduk was talking about, there are impact sites in Canada and the US dated to 12,000 years ago during the age of Leo.

The friction in Earth's atmosphere will cause smaller asteroids and comets to oblate, which is a fancy way of saying "deform." Pieces break off and those impact sites suggest that's exactly what happened.

You can imagine an asteroid or comet landing in the south Pacific Ocean. It would generate a tsunami. It might even melt or partially melt one of the ice sheets on Antarctica and make it worse.

The tsunami, or the asteroid impact, or both could retard the rotational speed of Earth. Not by much. Maybe one-one hundredth of a second (0.01).

That's not a lot. We'd never notice that.

But over a long period of time, say 10,000 years, that 0.01 second turns into 36,500" of arc which is 608' of arc which is 10 degrees of arc.

You can see why Marduk might be very angry if he thought things were off-kilter by a few degrees of arc.


Anyway, they marked ages by sunrise on the equinox, and I think it's reasonably clear they were referring to constellations and not signs.
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Unread 11-30-2019, 02:53 PM
Kiril stoychev Kiril stoychev is offline
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Re: A new perspective on the exaltation and The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac an

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post
Hi JUIPITERASC,

That much is true. Ages are a modern astrology concept. It has no place in traditional astrology because nobody ever cared about the ages.

The figure Christ himself bears many of the temperaments and personality traits of a Pisces,[30] and is thus considered an archetype of the Piscean.[31] Moreover, the twelve apostles were called the "fishers of men," early Christians called themselves "little fishes," and a code word for Jesus was the Greek word for fish, "Ikhthus."[29]



FROM Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisces_(astrology)
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Unread 11-30-2019, 03:02 PM
Kiril stoychev Kiril stoychev is offline
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Re: A new perspective on the exaltation and The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac an

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post

The rising of Sun on the vernal equinox is what marked the change.

This is somewhat true, but not quite.
I explained this in my report, if you didn't pay attention, please read it

When the sun rises in the spring, you cannot see in which constellation it is and use it as a marker.

You can see which zodiacal constellation is visible at East 1 hour before sunrise.

The ancient Sumerians were observing what was seen, not the invisible. Particular attention was paid to the heliacal sunrises of stars and planets.

Last edited by Kiril stoychev; 11-30-2019 at 03:37 PM.
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Post Re: The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opal View Post
Yes, but the traditional board restricts discussion. I agree, we need a sidereal board.
After almost 8 years of posting in the AW forum, finally someone has to point out a need to expand the board before the 2020's arrive. The so-called Age of Aquarius (it didn't start in 2000-01, nor 2012, 1989, 1979 and 1968-69). And the thread title: A new perspective on the exaltation and The prototype of the Babylonian Zodiac and Aq...uarius? Is this a tropical or sidereal age? The combination of Aquarius and Capricorn is a Saturnian one about science, humanism, egalitarianism and most of all, an increased interest in astrology. Uranus is the modern ruler of Aquarius, but Saturn remains its big co-ruler.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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