Commitment and Freedom?

lazarusx · Jul 28, 2011

So i was hoping someone here could help interpret this issue i've recently become aware of in myself.

I think i have a fear of committing myself to virtually anything, whether it's a friendship, relationship, career or work. I'm militantly independent and the moment i feel my sense of freedom is been challenged i will walk the other way; i prefer to work casual jobs because i have the option of been able to leave at the drop of a hat, i save the majority of money i earn because through my eyes it allows for greater access to personal freedom such as traveling. Friends come and go for me.. i value them while they last but when there gone, there gone.. relationships is where it seems to get a bit tricky; when im in them.. i feel like i have no freedom over my life and i panic. I have a feeling this is because when i was a child growing up my mother was extremely controlling of everything in my life, and it took me until my late teenage years to regain control.

So now whenever i feel that my personal freedom is been threatened; imagined or real, i will walk away. It wasn't until i wrote this post that i realized how high i had the walls up within myself, i spent so many years under the control of someone else that i refuse to ever let anyone in, out of fear that the same process will happen again.

At least that's how I've come to understand this, and it's obviously shaped my entire lifestyle for better or worse..

This sounds specific to the conjunction of my Mars/Venus square Pluto, power struggles and been controlled, maybe Sun oppostion Uranus and Mars inconjunct Saturn?

EDIT: I noticed the opposition between Jupiter and Uranus is only 1 degree away from my Moon, i'm assuming as part of the conjunction the moon's energies would also be effected by this opposition with Uranus, which would have a considerable effect on relationships with people, feeling torn between wanting to be free and wanting to be intimate?

Lin · Jul 30, 2011

First, Scott, I assume you no longer live home, right? You live on your own? If you don't, there's no point really going on.....as you are still in a dynamic with your original family and no matter what happens, your dynamic with them comes first. - unfortunately.

Assuming you have gotten away from your original family, the next thing I want to say is - you are only 22. For you to be "looking" for commitment now would be out of sync with the modern world of our "moment in time."

Next, both your Mars and Venus (conj. in Leo) are square Pluto. This is harder than the oppositions, as the squares represent issues between YOU and YOU - not you and someone else.

You are your own friend, so to speak, so you don't "crave" others....your Leo takes care of most of your needs. However, being content with this state of affairs will not last.

If you agree that Jupiter opposes Uranus, you also need to include the moon and Mercury in that opposition.

The Sun oppositions are all about keeping your identity safe.
When you mature a bit, and you see that you have an identity and are safe from being 'taken over' by someone else, you will test the waters of relationship.

However: Marriage, for you, is a problem. Your experience is that someone else can "own" you, and you are never going to let that happen....consciously. However, since we do tend to repeat our childhoods, it will happen. You just need to not get married until you find someone you trust and KNOW thoroughly.

I'll let you know if I see anything more after I redraw your chart in the form I use.
LIN

cirrus1 · Jul 31, 2011

sillysillysilly

bittermoon · Jul 31, 2011

I suspect the Sun-Uranus opposition to be the major player here. I myself have the square and I too am horribly afraid somebody is going to limit my freedom. Coupled with a Venus-Pluto square (Venus conjunct IC and Pluto in 7th, no less) it makes me a commitment phobic. Good on you that you realise these issues at such a young age. I myself only realised them very recently (and I just turned 40).

My friends don't come and go though. I have a lot of 'acquaintances', mainly because I travel a lot and tend to meet a lot of people that way, but only a few friends, which I've had for 10, 20 and a few of them even more years. The friends I have, I sometimes have no contact with for months, but time never matters. They are the same as me in that regards and know the bond will never be broken. People who need to constantly get together and call you every day etc.... brrrr... drives me nuts and makes me want to run away.

As for relationships of the intimate kind, we look at the 7th house. Yours is in freedom loving Sag, which adds another layer to your freedom loving nature. It's interesting that the ruler of the 7th, resides in your first house. This could be an indication that your partner will actually help you to get some more insight into your own self and your behaviour.

I noticed you use whole signs, and personally I use Placidus (still researching what works best for me though) but in Placidus, I believe you'll have Uranus also in your 7th house. You might want to research this also.

Ruka_5 · Jul 31, 2011

Or maybe it's just youth.

Most guys your age, are commitment-phobes, it's perfectly natural in all honesty.

Inconjunct · Jul 31, 2011

Ruka_5 said:
Or maybe it's just youth.

Most guys your age, are commitment-phobes, it's perfectly natural in all honesty.

Yes, an excellent point! Sometimes, I think people rush prematurely to look to their charts to "explain" behaviour that might just be a transient feature of age or circumstance, not a settled characteristic. At 22, this young man is "not fully cooked" as Judge Judy would say :lol:

bittermoon · Jul 31, 2011

Sure, might have to do with 'youth' but really, with a chart like that isn't it obvious that OP values his freedom? Of course, it will be part of his journey learning to 'deal' with it but it's quite likely he will always need a lot of freedom. And there's nothing wrong with that. The tricky part is how to unite this need with healthy relationships.

lazarusx · Jul 31, 2011

Lin said:
Next, both your Mars and Venus (conj. in Leo) are square Pluto. This is harder than the oppositions, as the squares represent issues between YOU and YOU - not you and someone else.

You are your own friend, so to speak, so you don't "crave" others....your Leo takes care of most of your needs. However, being content with this state of affairs will not last.

I'll let you know if I see anything more after I redraw your chart in the form I use.
LIN

This resonates a lot with me, i seem to go through a cycle whereby i'm comfortable been on my own doing my own thing for long periods of time but eventually i'll feel as though i'm missing out on something, so i will seek out others.. only to realize i wasn't missing anything. I'm not sure if i've become slowly jaded by this cycle but the more it occurs the more i distance myself.. and just pursue my own interests.

bittermoon said:
My friends don't come and go though. I have a lot of 'acquaintances', mainly because I travel a lot and tend to meet a lot of people that way, but only a few friends, which I've had for 10, 20 and a few of them even more years. The friends I have, I sometimes have no contact with for months, but time never matters. They are the same as me in that regards and know the bond will never be broken. People who need to constantly get together and call you every day etc.... brrrr... drives me nuts and makes me want to run away.

Yeah, i suppose i would say i only have one or two genuine friends.. people who i could not see for years but we would both get along as if it was yesterday, funnily enough these friends are similar to myself in that they enjoy there own time and freedom. But most people i meet or befriend tend to come and go because either i need to much of my own time and the bond disappears or they can't stand not catching up every weekend.

bittermoon said:
As for relationships of the intimate kind, we look at the 7th house. Yours is in freedom loving Sag, which adds another layer to your freedom loving nature. It's interesting that the ruler of the 7th, resides in your first house. This could be an indication that your partner will actually help you to get some more insight into your own self and your behavior.

Ahh, thankyou for that.. i didn't connect the two.

bittermoon said:
I noticed you use whole signs, and personally I use Placidus (still researching what works best for me though) but in Placidus, I believe you'll have Uranus also in your 7th house. You might want to research this also.

Yeah, i'm still unsure of what works best for me too.. and it's made me unsure of Uranus's actual house position.. it's moves between the 7th and the 8th on various house systems.. but if it is infact in the 7th house Sagittarius opposing my Sun, then this unquenchable thirst for freedom makes alot of sense hehe.

Inconjunct said:
Yes, an excellent point! Sometimes, I think people rush prematurely to look to their charts to "explain" behaviour that might just be a transient feature of age or circumstance, not a settled characteristic. At 22, this young man is "not fully cooked" as Judge Judy would say

It very well could be, i think it would be silly for me to discount that fact. But i think it's coupled with something more underlying.. i suppose only time will tell.

Thankyou everyone for taking the time to reply, i really appreciate it. :sideways:

Ruka_5 · Aug 3, 2011

bittermoon said:
Sure, might have to do with 'youth' but really, with a chart like that isn't it obvious that OP values his freedom? Of course, it will be part of his journey learning to 'deal' with it but it's quite likely he will always need a lot of freedom. And there's nothing wrong with that. The tricky part is how to unite this need with healthy relationships.

I'd agree if he had the indicators in his chart, but I took a quick glance and didn't really see anything that would indicate commitmentphobia or a strong need for independence. Uranus isn't angular...

bittermoon · Aug 3, 2011

Ruka_5 said:
I'd agree if he had the indicators in his chart, but I took a quick glance and didn't really see anything that would indicate commitmentphobia or a strong need for independence. Uranus isn't angular...

I never look at just one factor in a chart. I'm a Cancer Sun and if i just looked at that you'd think I'd be into cooking and rearing kids. Quite the contrary. I am not into either at all.

In my opinion, having an angular Uranus does not necessarily mean one is a commitment phobe.

LovelyMissAries · Aug 11, 2011

I respectfully disagree with the slight scoffing that a 22 year old could be looking for commitment. I think it's jumping the gate placing stereotypes on someone we don't know when it's quite possible. While the definition of commitment has certainly changed throughout the decades, I wouldn't simply chalk it up to his age.

Now, what I noticed first is Mars square Pluto. That's like having two Generals battling each other. Both planets rule Scorpio, Mars being co-ruled by Aries. You refuse to be told what to do and/or how to do it. You might be (well, probably are) threatened by strong personalities which kind of explains your casual job theory (imo, of course, not saying I'm right.) You might feel equal to your boss there instead of underneath someone's thumb.

I also wonder about Sun opposition Neptune. I'm still learning but I wonder if that would create the illusion you're being deceived or your attempts at expression are being thwarted when they really aren't?

Then I also see your Moon in Gemini. Yes, the moon deals with emotions BUT it is in Gemini. You're a bit detached and analyze your emotions instead of feeling them which I would see as an explanation for the status of your friendships, relationships, etc. You're simply not one who holds grudges and your emotions change daily. Very mercurial person coupled with that Cancer sun.

virgo18 · Aug 11, 2011

I feel that the ruler of the 7th house in hard aspect to Uranus, is similar to Venus in hard aspect to Uranus.

Your 1st house ruler in the 1st will enter in the issue about commitment... it will turn you more self centered... I mean not to able to share your life from day to night with someone in specific.

The moon in gemini conjunct mercury in the 1st in a man's chart, make him very versatile, bored easily, and not too able to imagine he's life with just one person.

Your Venus in Leo in the 3rd conjunct Mars will make you the same. You don't like women who try to pin you down. You need someone who allows you much space. But that square to Pluto makes me think that sometimes you will have strong desires to be in love or in a relationship that will be at odd with your general nature.

astrologer50 · Aug 12, 2011

lazarusx said:
So i was hoping someone here could help interpret this issue i've recently become aware of in myself.

I think i have a fear of committing myself to virtually anything, whether it's a friendship, relationship, career or work. I'm militantly independent and the moment i feel my sense of freedom is been challenged i will walk the other way; i prefer to work casual jobs because i have the option of been able to leave at the drop of a hat, i save the majority of money i earn because through my eyes it allows for greater access to personal freedom such as traveling. Friends come and go for me.. i value them while they last but when there gone, there gone.. relationships is where it seems to get a bit tricky; when im in them.. i feel like i have no freedom over my life and i panic. I have a feeling this is because when i was a child growing up my mother was extremely controlling of everything in my life, and it took me until my late teenage years to regain control.[ I feel this is down to gemini needing lots of variety, changes, and very short attention span]

So now whenever i feel that my personal freedom is been threatened; imagined or real, i will walk away. It wasn't until i wrote this post that i realized how high i had the walls up within myself, i spent so many years under the control of someone else[sun opp saturn] that i refuse to ever let anyone in, out of fear that the same process will happen again.

At least that's how I've come to understand this, and it's obviously shaped my entire lifestyle for better or worse..

This sounds specific to the conjunction of my Mars/Venus square Pluto, power struggles and been controlled, maybe Sun oppostion Uranus and Mars inconjunct Saturn? [this quincux suggests you may suffer in relationships and not know why. also a frustration of actions (mars) held back by saturn, authority figures]

EDIT: I noticed the opposition between Jupiter and Uranus is only 1 degree away from my Moon, i'm assuming as part of the conjunction the moon's energies would also be effected by this opposition with Uranus, which would have a considerable effect on relationships with people, feeling torn between wanting to be free and wanting to be intimate?

Firstly, your is a see-saw chart, swinging from the safe end to venture to the other to explore. Gemini Asc quite often have tough time in childhood, having a stellium planets in gemini, increases the restlessness, procrastination and indecisiveness and not wanting to make decisions.

Your sun is heavily challenged by uranus, saturn, neptune. the *MAIN* issue I see is saturn uranus conj. This suggests wanting to break free and have freedom and independence(Uranus) but saturn wants status quo. When Saturn and Uranus fall in the same sign or house we get caught in a cleft stick, wanting to make changes but fearing to let go of the old.

Now Saturn conj Neptune is prone to depression. Mars conj venus in leo want trophies on their arms, but mars is quincunx saturn which shows suffering in relationships and not understanding why.

Mars square pluto should really do sports or martial arts as it can attract and give out violence.

now ruler of mc pisces/neptune is placed in 8th house of joint resources, whether partner, employer or state.

Ruler of the Tenth House in the Eighth House
Your main profession or your attitude towards it can go through a complete change. Your feelings about authority figures or even about being in a position of authority yourself will change. Your career may be related to some kind of research, other people's resources, or even the metaphysical realm.
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/houserulerships.htm#hr10

sun opp saturn shows lack of rapport with father. there has been an interested thread recently on this..
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33836&highlight=opposition+saturn
sun opp uranus shows impatience and rebellious streak
sun opp neptune shows sensitivity and psychic abilities in 8th

astrologer50 · Aug 12, 2011

these past 12-18months transiting saturn has been squaring your stellium in from 5th house of romance to 8th house of other people's money. So wherever saturn is, is where we lack confidence and have to work harder to compensate.
T Pluto has already met uranus and had issues to do with control (pluto) and freedom (uranus) and in 2/3years will conjunct natal saturn, which is structured hard work and transformation, whether you like it or not..

currently T Uranus has/is trining your natal venus, so socialsing and finances should be ok

Still thinking · Sep 2, 2011

Indian Astrology

you have jupiter,moon and mercury in 1st house. This gives lot of interest in studies. specially related to arts like dancing.

you have ketu in 4th house which shows relationship with mother may be not nice.

At first impression people may like a lot but your actions,way of doing task and bad behavior may disappoint them.

your way of working is very confusing to people.some also call you idiot or mad for your work.

Flowergirl · Sep 2, 2011

Perhaps it's your Asc inconjunct Uranus You just really value your freedom.

lazarusx · Sep 2, 2011

Wow so many replies, thank-you all so much for your time and input. I appreciate any insight i can get.

LovelyMissAries said:
Now, what I noticed first is Mars square Pluto. That's like having two Generals battling each other. Both planets rule Scorpio, Mars being co-ruled by Aries. You refuse to be told what to do and/or how to do it. You might be (well, probably are) threatened by strong personalities which kind of explains your casual job theory (imo, of course, not saying I'm right.) You might feel equal to your boss there instead of underneath someone's thumb.

That's an interesting perspective! I hadn't looked at it from that angle, I suppose i feel i have more power by remaining in a casual position because i'm not strictly under anyone's command, i'm never in a position to be controlled or threatened.

LovelyMissAries said:
Then I also see your Moon in Gemini. Yes, the moon deals with emotions BUT it is in Gemini. You're a bit detached and analyze your emotions instead of feeling them which I would see as an explanation for the status of your friendships, relationships, etc. You're simply not one who holds grudges and your emotions change daily. Very mercurial person coupled with that Cancer sun.

Yeah your not wrong there, i can go from been outgoing to a complete hermit and i think it confuses alot of people i know, some have taken it personally in the past.

astrologer50 said:
Your sun is heavily challenged by uranus, saturn, neptune. the *MAIN* issue I see is saturn uranus conj. This suggests wanting to break free and have freedom and independence(Uranus) but saturn wants status quo. When Saturn and Uranus fall in the same sign or house we get caught in a cleft stick, wanting to make changes but fearing to let go of the old.

Is there any resolution, this seems to be the fundamental issue that is frequently recurring throughout my life.. it seems to have lead to a place of stagnation, now that coupled with the indecision of my Gemini stellium makes it incredibly hard to make any change at all.

astrologer50 said:
sun opp saturn shows lack of rapport with father. there has been an interested thread recently on this..

Yeah, im really quite amazed at the consistent accuracy of this aspects nature in other peoples chart's who also have it. Almost everyone i know with this aspect has had issues with their father whether it's through absence or general lack of support. My father's an extremely independent/active person, didn't marry or have me until he was 42 and has spent most of his life working away from home, he is characteristically very saturn, a workaholic, served in the army and SAS, a hard man but quite passive.. so a bond never really developed between myself and him.

Still thinking said:
you have ketu in 4th house which shows relationship with mother may be not nice.

Yeah, the relationship between my mother an I hit its critical mass when i was younger and i left home for a couple of years, i recently moved back and have been working on trying to mend it. I think we're both learning to accept each others differences and views.

Ruka_5 · Sep 3, 2011

Flowergirl said:
Perhaps it's your Asc inconjunct Uranus You just really value your freedom.

This was the type of thing I thought to look for and didn't notice. If it isn't the age factor (which I still think is more likely because to be perfectly frank most people the OP's age aren't looking to settle down just yet), then it's gotta be that inconjunct because nothing else in this chart indicates that sort of thing.

astrologer50 · Sep 3, 2011

virgo18 said:
I feel that the ruler of the 7th house in hard aspect to Uranus, is similar to Venus in hard aspect to Uranus.[ like where? Saggi/jupiter doesn't make an aspect to uranus]

Your 1st house ruler in the 1st will enter in the issue about commitment... it will turn you more self centered... I mean not to able to share your life from day to night with someone in specific.[ actually, ruler of asc/mercury is conj ruler of desc/jupiter, which is excellent news]

The moon in gemini conjunct mercury in the 1st in a man's chart, make him very versatile, bored easily, and not too able to imagine he's life with just one person. [all that gemini/stellium will feel much like this, restless, procrastinating and indecisive and gemini's are *notorious* for sitting on the fence over issues to. Moon is conj Jupiter which has 'great capaicty' for going OTT on emotion (moon) and expansive socialising opportunist Jupiter]

Your Venus in Leo in the 3rd conjunct Mars will make you the same. You don't like women who try to pin you down. You need someone who allows you much space. But that square to Pluto makes me think that sometimes you will have strong desires to be in love or in a relationship that will be at odd with your general nature.

In two years time, prog sun will be conj natal venus, excellent for new romance :biggrin:

have you notice over last 12months that you have become more firey, wanting more attention, adds leo traits to your personality?

Originally Posted by astrologer50
Your sun is heavily challenged by uranus, saturn, neptune. the *MAIN* issue I see is saturn uranus conj. This suggests wanting to break free and have freedom and independence(Uranus) but saturn wants status quo. When Saturn and Uranus fall in the same sign or house we get caught in a cleft stick, wanting to make changes but fearing to let go of the old.

Is there any resolution, this seems to be the fundamental issue that is frequently recurring throughout my life.. it seems to have lead to a place of stagnation, now that coupled with the indecision of my Gemini stellium makes it incredibly hard to make any change at all

Unfortuneatly, no these three planets really don't get along and it will be hard to integrate all their energies into coherence.

sun opp neptune (which I have) can espec in teenage years create a sort of identity crisis and no clear self image/ego. remember these *aspects* are just facets of your personality, which is ever evolving inanyevent. Then at other times, your sun opp saturn may kick in and say caution, reserve, hard work. then other times sun opp uranus says, hey I want some excitement, freedom, independence

having a stellium in gemini in first house is all about you, you and you and putting yourself first and foremost. your POF is conj moon,mercury and these to planets will bring you your greatest happiness and success. To communications (mercury) and emotions(moon) are to be used to positive effect bringing lots of bits of information to lots of different people

transiting uranus is now trining natal venus which is excellent news for new friendships and romance

Saggi ruling 7th could suggest a foreigner relationship, someone who is broadminded, and loves freedom and independence as much as you do

astrologer50 · Sep 3, 2011

I uploaded your chart in Equal house with progressions and transits. I notice now your progressed Asc is conjunct natal jupiter, which gives jupiter( and it's aspects) an outlet for expressions...

Quite often I have found gemini Asc (like pisces Asc) have had a hard childhood, feeling bit like a square peg in round hole family wise.I call them the *why children* driving parents and family mad by asking questions incessantly. Why does this do that, what happens if.....I'm sure it can be draining for parents having to explain and talk all the time

Commitment and Freedom?

Well-known member

Attachments

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

Banned

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Banned

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Banned

Banned

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Banned

Banned

Banned