Trump chart sidereal analysis

greybeard said:

Perhaps it would give a better fit yo describe Sun in 10th as "issues dealing with authority and public position" rather than "striving for political power". Trump was never directly involved in politics until he was about 70 years old. The presidency was simply the golden plum on the highest branch.

Trump sees himself as King by Divine Right and has dynastic aims.

Click to expand...

dr. farr said:

The Trump nativity would have been called
"An Imperial Horosocope"
by the court astrologers of the Roman emperors
(prior to the 4th century CE)

Click to expand...

greybeard said:

I don't think you fully understand the differences between tropical and sidereal.

Click to expand...

greybeard said:

So I'll make you a deal.

You satisfactorily explain to me the difference, and I will tell you why Ptolemy stole your signs.

Click to expand...

greybeard said:

You really don't understand.

Click to expand...

greybeard said:

Ptolemy, who lived in the 2nd century and was well versed in the science of his day, certainly knew of the southern hemisphere because Eratosthenes had shown the Earth to be spherical and had even correctly calculated its circumference over 4 centuries earlier.

Click to expand...

greybeard said:

How about the Mayan zodiac?

Click to expand...

greybeard said:

This means that Man has created the constellations according to his whim. The constellations do not exist in reality. If this is so, just what are you hanging your sidereal hat on?

Click to expand...

greybeard said:

Both zodiacs are equally valid. They provide two different perspectives.

Click to expand...

Shanti said:

Trump have in his 2nd house a stationary jupiter. Strong giving wealth.
He entered his jupiter period in november 2016 when he surprisingly became president.

Click to expand...

SunConjunctUranus said:

Shanti, I agree with this but I thought the Jupiter is detriment/fall in Virgo?
Jupiter 2L is virgo [mercury] and mercury in 11H must have correlation to businesses.

Click to expand...

We need VEDIC ANALYSIS PERSPECTIVE from Shanti

tsmall said:

With all the current interest in Hellenistic methods, how exactly

does one go about delineating a chart using Hellenistic astrology?

Click to expand...

petosiris said:

(Sidereal, Topocentric with dodecatemoria, nonagesimal MC)

Investigating the 71st year (70 years) of Donald Trump, variety of methods

I. Seven Ages of Man according to Ptolemy
Saturn - Late Old Age - Death
Jupiter - Early Old Age - 67
Mars - Late Adulthood - 55
Sun - Early Adulthood - 40
Venus - Youth - 21
Mercury - Childhood - 13
Moon - Infancy - 3

Donald Trump is the oldest president elected in US history. Saturn is of the sect, above the horizon, in the XI image of the Good Daimon, in its triplicity and bound and ruled by Mercury, who is in its domicile, Venus bound, triplicity and degree. Thus the method of Ptolemy gives good results for this nativity (which is more of an argument for taking into account age regardless).

Circumambulation of the Predominator according to the Old Astrologers
The Sun is Predominator. In the 71st year it is distributing to Saturn (which is operative and inclining towards beneficence) and is joining the hexagon ray of Jupiter. Thus it also gives good results for this nativity.

II. Winds according to the Old Astrologers
This nativity is wealth-producing and imperious, with power over life and death for the Sun, the Moon, the Preceding New Moon, Fortune, Daimon and Foundation are all angular, and furthermore the ruler of the Moon is angular and with Regulus which is rising, while the trigon rulers of the Lightbringer are angular after the 38th year, for that is the rising time of inoperative Venus, which is also trigon ruler of the II - wealth, IV - property, the Moon, X - rank and VIII - property.

He was wealthy from the beginning because of his father (Sun to Saturn) - IV, Virgo, Mercury and the Sun trine Jupiter. He inherited the property business of his father - X from Virgo, and right around the time of the 38th year, he completed the construction of the Trump Tower. In the following years he amassed wealth, signified by the rulers of II and VIII and the overall eminence and by the times.

He has 2 angular triplicity rulers, thus it also gives good results for this nativity.

III. 129 Years according to the Exaltation Method of Balbilus, the Days of the Moon and the Times of the Images
The Predominator is the main Releaser, as in the circumambulation. Every star allots its recurrence years. But if the stars should not be upon the degrees of their exaltations, it will be necessary to substract as many days as there are years, by image, as many months. Thus the Sun here allots 19 years - 19 months, Mercury allots 20 years - 60 months, Saturn allots 30 years - 120 months, Mars allots 15 years - 75 months and Jupiter - 12 years - 24 months. One can further divide each time into 129 parts as many times as necessary.
17.4166667 years - Sun
15 years - Mercury
20 years - Saturn
8.75 years - Mars
10 years - Jupiter
----------------------
71st - Jupiter and Mars - harmonious, like-ascending with reception, these two stars together grant power over life and death, operative and benefic period, thus it also gives good results for this nativity.

To find the third, seventh and fortieth day of the Moon, examine the II, IV and VII from the Moon. Now the fortieth day rules the later part of life, here in Taurus, exaltation, hexagon Venus and trine Jupiter. It is however square Mars, although inferior. Thus it gives mediocre results.

The VI, VII and VIII signify the time around old age. Thus it also gives mediocre results, for although the rulers are well placed and operative, the seventh is opposed by Mars, the malefic contrary to the sect (although ruled by good rulers, it is also contrary to horizon, gender, season and within two images of its depression - it is however much more productive than Venus, which is the worst star in the nativity).

IV. Recurrence Years and Rising Times, 9 years according to Zoroaster and Nechepso, 28 years according to Critodemus, Operative Years according to Vettius Valens

Only the sum of Gemini and Scorpio are operative. But those signs are unconfigured except through like-ascension, so basically nothing in particular is shown by this technique. Valens advises to divide each rising time in thirds or half and sum up them instead. I will skip those.

Find the Ruler of the Moon and allot 9 years for every sign ruler upwards. Mars rules 9 years, then Jupiter, then Saturn. Mercury rules until 72, thus this method provides good results.

According to Critodemus, find the ruler of the degree of the Moon and count upwards. The first degree is assigned to the domicile ruler, then the next 29 degrees (monomoiria) in the seven-zone, also called descending Chaldean order. Every star, beginning from the ruler of the Moon, allots this many years:
Saturn - 7
Jupiter - 6
Mars - 5
Sun - 4
Venus - 3
Mercury - 2
Moon - 1

After one cycle of 28 years is completed, we start from the star after the ruler. In this nativity we begin from Saturn, at the 57th year from Venus, thus Jupiter rules the 71st year. This method also gives good results for this nativity.

The 71st year is also not associated with any interval, however several numerical methods are as follows (using ordinal numbers)
Saturn is operative every four years for 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 = 30
Jupiter is operative every three years for 3 + 4 + 5 = 12
Mars is operative every four years for 4 + 5 + 6 = 15
Sun is operative every nine years for 9 + 10 = 19
Venus is operative every eight years for 8 = 8
Mercury is operative every two years for 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 = 20
Moon is operative every three years for 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 = 25

Thus:
Saturn - every 4, 30, 57
Jupiter - every 3, 12, 79
Mars - every 4, 15, 66
Sun - every 9, 19, 120
Venus - every 8, 82
Mercury - every 2, 20, 76
Moon - every 3, 25, 108

V. Profections
We investigate the eleventh profection cycle. He became exalted and king of kings in the 71st year, because the Sun and the Moon transmit to Jupiter, while the Hour-Marker transmits to Mercury and Saturn, the most well placed stars in the nativity. Venus also transmits to the Sun, Fortune, Daimon and MC to Jupiter, only the Mars transmission to Gemini is malefic.
Thus, this also provides good results.

According to the King (for monthly profection), count the distance from the Sun at the time to the Moon at the nativity and the same distance from the Hour-Marker. Virgo is the operative month with Mercury as ruler, thus it provides good results for this nativity.

VI. Revolutions - The solar revolution is not as good as expected - only Mars at an angle, Lot with Saturn. In the lunar revolution preceding the election, the angles are well and Jupiter is rising, with the Sun and Mercury in the post-ascension, which signifies the first days of the month. Thus they give ok results.

VII. Transits - Saturn is transiting the Moon and the angles along with Mercury, Jupiter and Venus are operative, and the latter is sending trine ray to the Ascendant. Thus they give ok results.

It would be interesting to see how the tropical chart fares with these methods.

Click to expand...

SunConjunctUranus said:

Shanti, I agree with this but I thought the Jupiter is detriment/fall in Virgo?
Jupiter 2L is virgo [mercury] and mercury in 11H must have correlation to businesses.

Click to expand...

Shanti said:

When it comes to stationary planets, I have come to agree with James Braha (vedic astrologe from west) that the stationary status somewhat overrides the other parameters, such as weakness by sign et.c. I don't remember exactly how he stated it or so..but the gist of it was that. Looking at the matter in many horoscopes seems to be true in my opinion. Trump's jupiter is just 3 hours from stationary !

https://www.stationaryplanets.com/

and yes mercury as ruler of trumps 2nd house placed in 11th in own domicile sidereally is key for his abundance as well imo.

Click to expand...

greybeard said:

[deleted political commentary without sidereal astrology backing it up - Moderator]

Click to expand...

SunConjunctUranus said:

Shanti, apologize me, I'm too late responding your post
because I need to learn more about stationary planet.
Thank you very much btw, your post were surely adding my astrological knowledge.
I doubt too when I read mr Trump's chart
and I'm yet to read the origin of exaltated and debilitated sign.

Click to expand...

some useful information on retrogradation from Konrad

Konrad said:

Personally I find Retrogradation to be an abnormality rather than a straight debility. Retrograde planets tend to be unusual in their manifestations I also find there is an element of delay in their significations or of the planet being unable to carry out its significations to the full.

These traits are much different in Horary than in natal work. I find my comments above more suited to natal work. I would follow the traditional descriptions of it being a straight debility in horary work; you don't want the querent or quesite being retrograde then. Interestingly, Abu Ma'shar and al-Qabisi in their introductory work talk of pushing nature/management/power which basically involves a planet applying to another and the effects of different siuations therein. There is another facet of this which is "returning". This is when a planet applies to another, the 2nd planet is afflcited someway (being under the beams or retrograde). The 1st is pushing nature/management/power to the 2nd but the 2nd can't carry the burden so returns it to the first planet. If the first planet is cadent or otherwise afflcited, it can't carry the burden and both planets and their significations are harmed. If it is angular and unafflcited, then it receives its original burden from the 2nd planet and can carry out the significations of the contact. I find this more relevant to horary as Horary is more immeiate and specific but I am open to using it in natal work, particularly in annual work such as Revolutions. I believe these techniques are Persian in origin (as opposed to Hellenistic or Arabic).

As for natal, if, for example, a significator of wealth was retrograde while having lordship in one of the various time-lord systems, we could expect the acquisition of wealth to be delayed or we could expect it to be received but taken away later. I find this last point many times in nativities. The planet can bring its signfications but lacks the power to solidify them and they are taken away or they dissipate.

Indian astrology sees retrograde planets as being very powerful in their significations.

Click to expand...

What do Jim Jones, OJ Simpson, and Ted Bundy all have in common? They were charismatic, charming, and had the ability to influence almost anyone. They also demonstrated specific characteristics associated with malignant narcissism.

Malignant narcissism is known as a mixture of narcissism and antisocial personality disorder. They lack empathy and often live in grandiose fantasies that compete with reality. If the fantasies are revealed as such, the afflicted person may become hostile with high levels of rage.

Malignant narcissism is not an individual diagnosis in the DSM, rather it is a subset of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. As well as having symptoms of a Narcissistic Personality Disorder, a person with malignant narcissism also displays paranoia.


Since the personality of a malignant narcissist cannot tolerate any criticism, paranoia is usually stemmed from being mocked. Often times they will inflict paranoia in others by preaching highly controlled ideologies. Usually these are at least some-what fabricated to tailor the needs of the narcissist. Religion and philosophy are two categories they often gravitate toward.

Pathological lying is another obvious trait of malignant narcissism. Ted Bundy lied about his killings to various professionals, but not to be considered innocent. For example, he told one psychologist that he started killing women in 1974, but later he said the killing started in 1969. At one point, Bundy said there were 35 victims in all, but in another setting he claimed over 100. The criminal investigation reports that Ted Bundy seemed to be lying to impress people rather than avoid jail. Many times he said the deaths of the women he killed were higher than the victims reported.

Pathological lying can be much more subtle than in Ted Bundy’s case. The term “gas lighting” is often used when someone denies another person’s reality to purposely manipulate them into feeling insane. This is another tactic frequently used in both malignant narcissists and general narcissists with NPD.

Perhaps the most terrifying symptom of malignant narcissism is the lack of empathy that is required to carry out behavior. OJ Simpson frequently called his wife fat while she was pregnant. This was explained with the charisma of someone who was just “joking around.” Looking closer, this was not an isolated incident. He frequently beat his wife as well as publicly humiliated her by having affairs. When his wife was murdered, he seemed uninterested in his children, focusing more on himself. It is hard to prove that someone does not have empathy especially if that person is highly charismatic.

Someone with a lack of empathy may demonstrate kind facial or body language while simultaneously hurting another person. Because of the contrast in what is being said vs. what is being done, many people can feel as if they are losing their mind.

The warning signs of involvement with someone who may be afflicted are as follows:

Success At Any Cost. A close inspection of past relationships may show a failure to treat people kindly for the promise of a grandiose, yet superficial success. Beware of flaunted expenses, especially if there are a lack of people to share in the enjoyment.

critiscism feels like an attack. They fight back much harder than what is doled out. Someone who uses violence frequently, demonstrates lack of impulse control and may also have multiple addictions.
Manipulation. Pitting people against one another for the ultimate goal of loyalty is often used by narcissists. In this case, loyalty often means isolation.

.

Click to expand...

Shanti said:

As said in above post Trump and ted bundy shares some issues in chart.
Leo ascendant and moon in scorpio with south node.
Read this....
https://psychcentral.com/blog/the-ties-between-crime-and-malignant-narcissism/
This describes Donald Trump quite good Imo.

Click to expand...

and Trump drinks water as well