5TH house ruler!!!

Jupit3r said:

@may28gemini I inferred uranus before you explicitly named saturn. I usually use modern rulers.

Actually my gemini mars is at the end of 8th in placidus (which seems to be used as a default) and dead in the middle of the 8th by progression

9th in whole sign though, but I really only use that method for utility and wholistic perspective

I relate to both 8th house and 9th house descriptions so I assume I'm in a 8th house-9th house transitory period.

Would you still care to share how you experience 8th house mars?

Click to expand...

I don't use "modern rulers" and I never use placidus. I think that system is incorrect and I don't think there's such thing as a "transitory period."

You have a 9th house Mars, not 8th house. For starters, 8th house people are intense and you don't seem like that at all.

I've written a lot of posts in various threads about having an 8th house Mars, particularly 8th house Taurus Mars. I don't really want to write more of it in here.

This is interesting...

I'm just starting to get a real grasp on the difference between mars in a man and woman's charts

- So in my chart does mars in the 8th mean I bring about my own demise or transformation?

- Theoretically if I had venus in the 8th would that mean I bring about my wife's "venture thru hell"

I'm trying to intuit how mars in the 8th would work regarding finances...

Since Mars represents the males in your life, perhaps they are the ones who like variety?

Personally, with my mars sextile jupiter and mars sq. venus I maybe have the fantasy of variety in intimate relationships lol but I'm a Virgo with Venus in Virgo as well

But Jupiter in 10th manifest as variety in work and big goals in life.

----I think it's interesting you found someone else with a similar chart to yours who's having similar life issues. Sometimes as I watch the transits, I just imagine all the babies being born...while i just sit and look at the awesome birth charts a lot of kids will have (with a pinch of jealousy)

It's kind of like the planets are scanning souls into existence. Like the head of a printer, moving around to different positions using different color mixtures for single pixels in order to print some cohesive "bigger picture".

It says a lot about the related struggles of a generational peer group. Its as if combined they add a distinct color tone to the painting of existence; on a different part of the canvas and in artistic contrast from the rest of the souls living. It really shows everybody has some part to play in this earthly symphony

Ehhh I'm not sure I can agree that there is "no such thing" as transitory period because I perceive life as transitory in itself. Nothing is constant in my eyes except change itself. We all have our opinions tho..

Dane Ruhdyar wrote a great book called Astrological Aspects: A process oriented approach - he really shows how every force in the horoscope is moving. Flowing. Evolving. It is the natural rhythm and cadence of the Zodiac. From the Ying of Aries to the Yang Pieces. Experience teaches through time, which is transitory. For me it just paints a more vivid picture of "direction". We are always moving through the stream of the archetypical Zodiac Energies, Houses and Aspects. One comes after another.

As for how you perceive me, that's mostly my empty 1st house libra, I'm not sure how you could get a vivid picture of my 8th house on a forum.

You seem pretty intense though ! Packed first house... Wish I had one!

For sure, thats okay. I think I got the gist of it

Thanks

may28gemini said:

Waybread, you mentioned something about Jupiter-Mars wanting a lot of variety, but that's only a small part of it. Jupiter (expansion and optimism) in easy aspect to Mars (masculinity, physical ego, sexuality, a money planet) is more about someone who's confident and straightforward and generally has a healthy ego/sense of self which would make that person comfortable with commitments (because they are secure with themselves).

Click to expand...

Actually what I hope I said (or should have) is that where you see a trio of Mars, Venus, and Jupiter in aspect, the person may be more into "playing the field" or polyamory. Jupiter is often the planet of, "If a little is good, a lot is better."

Also, divorces or splitting-up of unmarried partners usually ends on a bad note. Even if it starts out amicably in a "let's be friends" mode, the divorce process itself has its own train-wreck sort of dynamic. (Ask me how I know.)

Although Mars is generally the "boy" planet; and Venus, the "girl" planet; of course, everyone's got both planets in the chart. In a woman's chart Mars is traditionally the kind of man she hopes to attract, but perhaps less so in 2013 when women serve in the military, box in the Olympics, and join the National Rifle Association. Effectively, as more women own their own Mars, they feel less of a need to project it onto an eligible male. In a man's chart, Venus is theoretically the kind of woman he hopes to attract, yet today we have the "metrosexual" male and the "sensitive guy": never mind the centuries of men engaged in Venus-ruled professions like the fine arts.

The picture is further complicated in the charts of gays and lesbians. If Venus isn't the dream girl in a gay man's chart; or Mars isn't Mr. Right in a lesbian's chart, then what do these planets represent to them?

More fundamentally, Venus is the principle of attraction, and Mars is the principle of active pursuit.

Also, just as individual people seem to find that one or another house system best resonates with their lives, I think individual astrologers find that one or another house system works better for them in their chart analyses.

I prefer Placidus unless it's a high-latitude birth or a crude birth time, because you often see intercepted signs in quadrant house-system charts, and I think these have real interpretive power; notably if the sun is in an intercepted sign. However, I think the whole signs system has merit if you don't have a totally accurate birth time (for example, Mom says, "You were born around 1:00 a.m.); and if you want an easy glimpse at so-called "natural" house cusp rulers.

Jupit3r said:

This is interesting...

I'm just starting to get a real grasp on the difference between mars in a man and woman's charts

- So in my chart does mars in the 8th mean I bring about my own demise or transformation?

NO!

- Theoretically if I had venus in the 8th would that mean I bring about my wife's "venture thru hell"

NO!

I'm trying to intuit how mars in the 8th would work regarding finances...

Think about shared income in a marriage. More generally if you purchase stocks, bonds,insurance, mutual funds, &ct. these are "shared resources." So are wills, life insurance, and inheritances: i. e., finances more closely related to death. The 2nd house would be your own bank account. The 8th would be funds you share in common with someone else, be it a spouse or share-holders.

Since Mars represents the males in your life, perhaps they are the ones who like variety?

Maybe, but in a man's chart, Mars is your own sense of masculinity and male sexuality. Most of the planets are encoded as masculine, except for the moon and Venus. Saturn would be an older man; the sun could be a king or ruler, Jupiter might be the philosopher, and so on.

Personally, with my mars sextile jupiter and mars sq. venus I maybe have the fantasy of variety in intimate relationships lol but I'm a Virgo with Venus in Virgo as well

Fair enough, but Virgo is nevertheless an earth sign. (Albeit a fastidious one.)

But Jupiter in 10th manifest as variety in work and big goals in life.

----I think it's interesting you found someone else with a similar chart to yours who's having similar life issues. Sometimes as I watch the transits, I just imagine all the babies being born...while i just sit and look at the awesome birth charts a lot of kids will have (with a pinch of jealousy)

It's kind of like the planets are scanning souls into existence. Like the head of a printer, moving around to different positions using different color mixtures for single pixels in order to print some cohesive "bigger picture".

Possibly souls choose the time, date, location, and personal circumstances most conducive to their soul's expansion of creativity and learning.

It says a lot about the related struggles of a generational peer group. Its as if combined they add a distinct color tone to the painting of existence; on a different part of the canvas and in artistic contrast from the rest of the souls living. It really shows everybody has some part to play in this earthly symphony

Click to expand...

Nicely put-- by a musician!

Jupit3r said:

Ehhh I'm not sure I can agree that there is "no such thing" as transitory period because I perceive life as transitory in itself. Nothing is constant in my eyes except change itself. We all have our opinions tho..

Dane Ruhdyar wrote a great book called Astrological Aspects: A process oriented approach - he really shows how every force in the horoscope is moving. Flowing. Evolving. It is the natural rhythm and cadence of the Zodiac. From the Ying of Aries to the Yang Pieces. Experience teaches through time, which is transitory. For me it just paints a more vivid picture of "direction". We are always moving through the stream of the archetypical Zodiac Energies, Houses and Aspects. One comes after another.

As for how you perceive me, that's mostly my empty 1st house libra, I'm not sure how you could get a vivid picture of my 8th house on a forum.

You seem pretty intense though ! Packed first house... Wish I had one!

For sure, thats okay. I think I got the gist of it

Thanks

Click to expand...

You can go by any method you choose and you can think you have an 8th house Mars if you want but in reality you don't. I don't care about what people say with their the new foofoo new agey mess that's watered down and killed what astrology is suppose to be. There are structures and boundaries and limits. If you are going to say that you have Mars in both 8th and 9th, well knock yourself out making stuff up. You don't exhibit any of the traits that are of the 8th house quality.

Why the heck would you want a packed first house? Empty 1st house have it a bit easier because as they say, you never get a second chance to make a good first impression. If someone has nice planets in their 1st house, it's all good (Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Jupiter). But if you have malefics in there, YIKES. I have 2 malefics and 1 benefic in my 1st... it's a royal pain. People either love me or hate me and it's strong feelings for me or against me. There's no in-between. I'd much rather NOT have that much action happening in my 1st.

As for my intensity, it's not due to my loaded 1st. Plenty of people have loaded 1st house but empty 8th and they're NOT intense at all. However there are those who have empty 1st but loaded 8th end up being very intense. My intensity is from the 8th, where my planet of action sits. The planets in my 1st and 8th are all in aspect so the world not only sees my 1st house planets, it also sees my 8th house planet.

8th house is the house of TRAUMA. It is also one of the karmic houses (water houses are karmic). People who have planets in the 8th house, esp. personal planets, and I mean truly do have planets in 8th (not in placidus or any new age system, but the traditional whole sign system) are intensive people but that's because we're also a wounded bunch. The reason why 8th house people have intensity as the trademark is because of all the sudden ups and downs, instabilities, lack of safety, danger, exposure to the dark side of human nature. Every 8th house person I've met (and including myself) had an abusive childhood and I've met a lot of people. All my friends have 8th house personal planets and they've reported that during their childhood they were hit often, neglected, molested, etc. I am not an exception to that.

Now, those with 8th house Mars often feel like they're living in a battlezone... and they have to soldier on, no matter what. They have a mistrust of others and often "react" to situations in an aggressive manner. Intuitive action, gut reactions, secretive, can be quite vicious. These aren't the kind of people who spare others feelings and tend to say things in the most blunt and black/white way. Seething and vengeful feelings are strong. Sexuality is heavily intense. NO one gets sexually involved with someone that has 8th Mars and think that it's fun and games. It's serious business. This house gives off a Scorpio flavor to the Mars.

Look at other 8th house people like Mars Marilyn Monroe (Gemini Sun) and JFK (He is also a Gemini Sun with Libra rising and Taurus Mars). They lead pretty intensive lives (and died violently too...)

I honestly don't get why you're insisting that you have Mars in the 8th. Do you think having the planet of sex in the house of sex to be glamorous or something? 8th is more about losses and hardships and not about fun happy stuff. The fact that you don't know what 8th encompasses tells me you're not an 8th houser. I can spot that kind from miles away with their heavy energy and you're not one of them.

Wow....

You insist that I'm not an 8th house mars when you know nothing about my life to reference... Instead you could have asked me if I had any of those aforementioned experiences and you'd VERY QUICKLY realize we're more similar than you appraised. But obviously those things aren't easy to talk about... But now it's out there so whatever

Intensity has nothing to do with me being "easy-breezy" with you on a forum... I just like getting along with people. Intensity relates to deep feeling....but feeling is personal. By nature the 8th house is not a "public house" in the same way the fourth and the twelfth aren't public houses...8th house has to do with YOUR emotions, not what someone else perceives. Trauma is very personal and not something you put on display. The 1st house (Aries) is quincunx the 8th house (Scorpio) showing an unflowimg relationship between ones self presentation and image (1st house matters) and their trauma, crises and transformation experiences (8th house matters).

Bottom line is my experience relates to both... in my progressed chart my mars has been falling back in its house and now its smack in the middle of the 8th and I've been through the struggle to match ... and I do relate to the philosophers spirit of the 9th and fighting for beliefs. To me this is the advantage of looking at it through both whole sign and placidus. Whole sign alone doesn't tell the whole story of the traumatic mars experiences I've had.

What I'm trying to understand is what the 8th house mars represents in a male chart. What's the purpose?

I think you're overreaching and trying to find all sorts of methods to connect Mars to your 8th house by any method possible. Although why you do that is totally beyond me and that irritated me. But my fault, I shouldn't have bothered to answer this thread in the first place. I already give you a long and very descriptive sense of what Mars in 8th encompasses and you can think whatever you want.

Above all else you have a very interesting rhetoric.

Though, I will call you to notice how your own stubborn energy is being reflected in me and though me...

Seriously, thanks for your input

Jupit3r said:

I have mine conjunct the I.C. In Capricorn. What could this mean?

Where is it in your chart & how has it made itself known?

Click to expand...

Basic Delineation Rules sourced from 'Delineating Natal Chart' at http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48463

Omnisphericus said:

I rely on the Ben Dykes explanation in his book "Using Medieval Astrology".

Planet in a certain house has many topics in hand.

1. First, that planet will act always according to its Essential Nature. Malefic will act by impeding, Benefic will act by increasing the good.

2. The Planet will bring with it self the Agenda of the houses she rules.
If a planet is in 11th, and ruling 4th, we can say that the Parents (or Father particularly) are native's Friends.

When you see a planet in certain house you should ask the following 4 questions (by the planet ruling some other house):

a) Who is experiencing the affairs of the house?
b) Why the houses affairs are manifesting or what has led to them?
c) What sorts of things the house's affairs are responsible for?
d) What the house's affairs are like?


1st House
Planets in 1st house are giving their own tone to the whole character and being to the native's character and body shape.
Mercury will show intelligent person. Venus love for fun. Sun Glory. Jupiter Wisdom and Philosophy. Moon changeability. Saturn melancholy. Mars passions and furiousity when in best, anger and destruction when in worst.

The planets by ruling some other house also shows What Comes to the Native's Experience. Ruler of 2nd in 1st shows that Money comes to the Native. Ruler of 3rd in 1st shows that the native has authority over the kin and siblings, over parents and family (4th), over the children (5th), over the servants (6th), over the partner (7th), over the partner's financies (8th), over the journeys (9th), in work (10th), over the friends (11th), over the enemies (12th).
10th in 1st also shows that honors are bestowed to the native. 11th in 1st shows that native gains Acquisitions.

The Ruler of 1st in house is showing in which field the native will seek to fulfill his Primary Motivation:
Ruler of 1st in 2nd - Through Acquiring Wealth.
1st in 3rd - Through Reading, Short Journeys and Communication skills.
1st in 4th - In the home, or through Family. Through the relationship with the Father.
1st in 5th - Through Children; joyful entertainment and gambling (in worse).
1st in 6th - through aquaring professional skills (6th is related with 10th by triplicity), through being of Service.
1st in 7th - Through Partnership.
1st in 8th - going through the hardships of life.
1st in 9th - through long journeys and philosophy.
1st in 10th - through the career and work.
1st in 11th - through friendships and hopes and wishes. Through Groups.
1st in 12th - Through Self-Undoing.

The ruler of 1st in houses is also showing the physical body's health.
Ruler of 1st in 6th/8th and 12th can show poor health.
The ruler of 1st in Houses can also shows the nature of the Life of the Native.
Ruler of 1st in 8th shows that the native has difficult life. In 11th - Fortunate. In 5th - Happy. In 6th - he is servant. In 12th - Troubled life.
Ruler of 1st in houses also shows what the native enjoys.
Ruler of 1st in 9th indicates that the native enjoys journeys and philosophy, or religion. Ruler of 1st in 5th - the native enjoys being with kids or being a performer, being creative and etc. Ruler of 1st in 6th shows that the native enjoys to be of service and to apply its professional skills.
Ruler of 1st in houses also shows what the native encounters in life.
Ruler of 1st in 12th shows that the native encounters secret enemies, in 7th - opposition and obstruction. In 8th - early death (if there are no benefics around and the sign is of malefic type, i.e. the malefic is ruling it).

Click to expand...

Example delineation of 5th house for a person who experienced difficulty bearing a child

Omnisphericus said:

This is a chart of now 60 years old woman.
She lose 7 children while pregnancy period. Her 8th child was born and is at the moment healthy 30 years old man.
I will compare this child bearing problem with the Fridaria method later on, but lets first examine the natal chart alone.

To look at her children we need to look at the 5th house.
5th house cusp is falling in Cancer.
Domicile ruler is Moon in 1st in Pisces.
Exaltation ruler is Jupiter in 2nd in partile (to the degree) opposition with Mars in 8th. (afflicted exalted ruler).
Triplicity rulers:
Mars: in 8th in Domicile
Venus: in 6th, cadent and peregrine.
Moon: in 1st in Pisces.
Term:Jupiter
Decan: Moon
Almuten: Moon (5+3+1)

Are there any planets in 5th?
Yes, there is Sun, ruler of 6th and in square to Mars in 8th. (Afflicted Sun).
Sun is disposing Cauda Draconis/Mercury retrograde/Venus Peregrine.

Her Part of Children (ASC + JU - SA for Night, reversed for day births) is in 28LIBRA, so in 8th.

From all of this we can assume that only Moon is the positive light for her having children in her chart.

Now we need to see when will something of the things 'promised' in the chart happen.

She was born in 1952.
Lets see the Fridaria table for the years in question.

JUPITER :: August 8, 1972
Jupiter/Mars - April 26, 1974
Jupiter/Sun - January 12, 1976
Jupiter/Venus - September 29, 1977
Jupiter/Mercury - June 17, 1979
Jupiter/Moon - March 4, 1981
Jupiter/Saturn - November 20, 1982

She get married in 1972 under the Jupiter/Jupiter period. Jupiter is ruler of 1st and 10th in her chart.

She conceive her first child in 1974 under Jupiter/Mars period.
We know that in her chart Jupiter and Mars are in tide opposition on the 8/2 axis. They afflict the Sun in 5th by Square. Mars is the first triplicity ruler of the 5th. This suspect troubles and death of a child (Mars afflicting the 5th from 8th).
Lets continue with the subperiods, knowing that the whole period of Jupiter is not very promising (because of the afflicted Jupiter in the natal chart).
The following subperiod is Jupiter/Sun. We know that Sun is afflicted in 5th from 8th. This again brings death of a child.
Next subperiod is Jupiter/Venus. Venus is cadent/peregrine and disposed by Sun in 5th afflicted. Venus rules 8th.
Jupiter/Mercury is the next subperiod bringing again afflicted subperiod ruler. Mercury is decreased in strength by being retrograde/cadent in 6th/conjuncting the Cauda Draconis.
She conceive her first born child in 1981 under Jupiter/Moon sub-period.
The child was born in January 1982, still under Jupiter/Moon sub-period.
Moon is angular/non afflicted by Malefic casting negative aspect rays. Moon and Jupiter are in mutual reception (Moon recept Jupiter by exaltation).
Moon rules 5th by domicile and is Almuten of the 5th.

As we saw in this example, the children were promised in this chart by the Moon, but after several disappointments and deaths of children.

Her husband died 1993 under her North Node Fridaria.
Her North Node is in 12th in Aquarius. Ruler Saturn is in 7th. Her husband died from a hearth attack leaving behind him 3 small children. In her chart he is represented by Saturn in 7th, in Exaltation, but still Malefic.
The bad for this house comes from the ruler of the house: Mercury in 6th, cadent and retrograde, in conjunction with the Cauda Draconis.

Click to expand...

may28gemini said:

People who have planets in the 8th house, esp. personal planets, and I mean truly do have planets in 8th (not in placidus or any new age system, but the traditional whole sign system) are intensive people but that's because we're also a wounded bunch.

Click to expand...

Not that I'm an advocate of any one house system (I think it's a personal call), but...are you lumping Placidus with "new age" systems? It was developed in the 17th century