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  #1  
Unread 04-06-2018, 06:08 PM
MoonBucket MoonBucket is offline
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Two T-squares and a microphone

"Two T-squares and a microphone"

Actually, it's two T-squares, a Yod (maybe a Yod Kite), and luckily some trines and sextiles.

I have completely rewritten this post to reframe it (originally I had wondered about the transit of the recent Mars-Saturn conjunction) just to get a general idea of what other people see as the major features, challenges, and opportunities of this chart. [I tried to change the subject line, too, but that didn't work.]

Is that a bucket pattern with the Moon as the handle, or is there such a thing as a Hammock or Hang-glider pattern with Chiron and the Moon?

Thanks in advance for any insights you might offer.

MB
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Last edited by MoonBucket; 04-09-2018 at 02:58 AM.
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  #2  
Unread 04-09-2018, 12:41 PM
l1lp l1lp is offline
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Re: Mars-Saturn Conjunction of 2 Apr 2018

Hello MoonBucket!
In the light of what we were talking about in the other thread i can try to have a look at you chart/try to understand your sat return (there also was a theme for this where you posted)

I think with Capricorn in first house and Saturn on Asc it might be about self worth, father, authority or your place is society, career, goals.
Capricorn is associated with tenth house, career, with men and the father. Maybe issues to do with relationship to authority your place in society, or you may have a strained or distant relationship with your father. Or, your dad could have been very stern and authoritative, making it difficult for you to express yourself.

You have Chiron in second house:
Your Chiron is in Aquarius - maybe your inner wound make you feel like an outsider and that you don't belong in certain group or community, it makes you feel isolated or distant/disassociated from others
Chiron represents the primal wound, the urge to become whole and heal the self, Second house is associated with Taurus - Taurus represents the physical body and security. With Chiron in second house of Taurus the wound is to your sense of self-worth and body. As we were looking in other theme - your Chiron is opposed Uranus in the 8 house and Uranus is then squaring your Mars in 10th house of Authority/Career (again)
Uranus in 8th house is square Mars in 10th house (again) conjunct Sun (father figure) all this in Scorpio (8th house again) square Chiron in 2nd house - that gives us this trigger pattern. 2-8-10-8-2 loop.

So I think your Saturn return might trigger this pattern as well? Thats why you mentioned the Mars-Saturn transit was significant. Im sorry I am absolute newb in astrology I hope it's in any way helpful.

also your moon is square Pluto in 8 house (its called Hades moon I think) that gives you this sense of intensity but also ability to overcome many things. Maybe try to look up Nessus and Dejanira or Child asteroids in your chart and see where they fit in this story if we are talking about childhood traumas?

Last edited by l1lp; 04-09-2018 at 12:43 PM.
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  #3  
Unread 04-09-2018, 02:43 PM
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Re: Mars-Saturn Conjunction of 2 Apr 2018

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Originally Posted by l1lp View Post
Hello MoonBucket!
In the light of what we were talking about in the other thread i can try to have a look at you chart/try to understand your sat return (there also was a theme for this where you posted)

I think with Capricorn in first house and Saturn on Asc it might be about self worth, father, authority or your place is society, career, goals.
Capricorn is associated with tenth house, career, with men and the father. Maybe issues to do with relationship to authority your place in society, or you may have a strained or distant relationship with your father. Or, your dad could have been very stern and authoritative, making it difficult for you to express yourself.

You have Chiron in second house:
Your Chiron is in Aquarius - maybe your inner wound make you feel like an outsider and that you don't belong in certain group or community, it makes you feel isolated or distant/disassociated from others
Chiron represents the primal wound, the urge to become whole and heal the self, Second house is associated with Taurus - Taurus represents the physical body and security. With Chiron in second house of Taurus the wound is to your sense of self-worth and body. As we were looking in other theme - your Chiron is opposed Uranus in the 8 house and Uranus is then squaring your Mars in 10th house of Authority/Career (again)
Uranus in 8th house is square Mars in 10th house (again) conjunct Sun (father figure) all this in Scorpio (8th house again) square Chiron in 2nd house - that gives us this trigger pattern. 2-8-10-8-2 loop.

So I think your Saturn return might trigger this pattern as well? Thats why you mentioned the Mars-Saturn transit was significant. Im sorry I am absolute newb in astrology I hope it's in any way helpful.

also your moon is square Pluto in 8 house (its called Hades moon I think) that gives you this sense of intensity but also ability to overcome many things. Maybe try to look up Nessus and Dejanira or Child asteroids in your chart and see where they fit in this story if we are talking about childhood traumas?
l1lp, thank you very much for having a look.

Originally I thought the Mars-Saturn conjuction was just lighting up that network of planets on the 7th/8th/9th degrees but now I see that it is probably also bridging that network with the natal Saturn in Capricorn and that T-square with Sun-Mars in Scorpio at the focus and Chiron-Uranus on the long axis. So the Mars-Saturn could be helping with integration (my 2nd Saturn return was on 27 Jan 2018).

Father was a little distant and was away a lot for work. I sometimes doubted his sincerity but he did try to be encouraging and appreciative of my accomplishments. I think he did as well as he could. He wasn't very authoritative or demanding, though. No expectations re: a career for me, for instance.

However, I was born in the late 1950s and turned out to be gay, so learned to keep that to myself for self-protection based on cues from society. I was fine with being a guy who liked guys, but obviously lots of others were not ready for that or were even hostile to the idea. I hid it from my family until I was ready to move out on my own. Not cool to be a teen in the late 70s who didn't feel free to develop naturally in the romantic and sexual areas. (Lucky in a way, though, because AIDS came up soon after. Maybe if I had been sexually active at the time I would have died young.)

I definitely have self-identified as an outsider, not just from being gay in America at the time. We moved around a few times when I was young, so I was often the new kid in school. Also, when I was a teen I left the faith of my family because I felt that church was just about making people feel bad about themselves and about control (in general, not specifically about sex). So I was a religious outsider in my family, and regretted whatever hurt it caused my parents, but it was the honest thing for me to do.

I do have body issues, mainly to do with hairy shoulders and back, but maybe also fear of being beaten up by other guys. "Men" used to seem aggressive and threatening to me. Even among younger guys I rarely felt like "one of the guys" and actually would feel pain in my heart when seeing guy friends (not lovers) going around together, because that kind of relationship was something I lacked but wanted.

Also, just when I had moved out on my own, ready to meet guys and have sex, to finally live my life, AIDS came along in the early 80s. I think this might be echoed in the Chiron-Uranus-Sun-Mars T-square. I gather that Sun-Mars conjunct can indicate determination to be oneself despite social pressure or templates, and that Mars-Uranus often indicates gay or other alternative sexualities. Plus, Pluto in the 8th house of trauma or how one deals with trauma for a little Sex and Death flavor.

Meanwhile, decades of drinking and internet addiction have left my house so neglected and cluttered that I would be embarrassed to have someone over (even for repairs!) even though I feel more comfortable in the world now and am still optimistic otherwise about meeting someone (or several).

I have accumulated a lot of stuff over the years (not quite hoarding, but also not recycling or discarding the unused) -- maybe that is also indicated by 2nd house Chiron.

I retired from work recently, so have time to gradually deal with the overwhelming and embarrassing mess of my house, but it will be a long-term project. Probably my best bet would be to meet another Oscar Madison (slob) like me or someone who lives mostly in their head (like me) who wouldn't mind the mess (joking). Luckily my cat doesn't seem to mind.

Well, thank you for your post. I appreciate your insights, and actually wrote more than I expected to, because what you mentioned seems to tie some things together. Thanks also for mentioning the Hades Moon -- I'll have to look that up.

Much thanks and best wishes,
MB

Last edited by MoonBucket; 04-09-2018 at 02:57 PM.
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  #4  
Unread 04-09-2018, 02:51 PM
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Re: Mars-Saturn Conjunction of 2 Apr 2018

Amazing, I think it ties well with the pattern we mentioned, I have to have a deeper look and see if theres anything else I can notice or add and come back to this - thanks for writing the post up its very interesting!
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  #5  
Unread 04-10-2018, 06:04 PM
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Re: Mars-Saturn Conjunction of 2 Apr 2018

Hello again,
I'll try to analyse the information you gave and connect it to the chart, I hope it will be useful in any way as I mentioned I'm just learning myself.

As I mentioned, since Chiron is in your second house, and second house is ruled by Taurus by default it points to your something physical like body or sexuality, in your Natal chart Chiton is actually in Aquarius and its in Opposition to Uranus (ruler of Aquarius) in 8th house (Sex/Sexuality). Aquarius/Uranus is rebellious, rebellious planet Uranus seeks freedom in the matters of any house it is located in. With Uranus in the 8th house, the you will seek freedom through sexuality.
Since it's in opposition in Chiron, It suggest that you "inner wound" is about not being able to express yourself freely about your sexuality. Pluto in 8th is not taking part in the opposition but its very sexy/intense/secret placement transformation through sex e.t.c Its very powerful and u can use this energy for good.

Since 2th house is also material possesions, Chiron being there might indicate the situation with cluttered house. Like accumulation of stuff (material possessions) is linked to your inner wound. I think house situation will slowly resolve when you attend to your Chiron problems. Sometimes this happens because we are not ready/scared on subconscious level of getting close to people, inviting them to our house, so this manifest in the outside clutter that sort of prevents us from actually building closer relationships from with the outside world, inviting it in - this subconscious isolation ties well with Aquarius. I think its well described by Chiron/Aquarius/2nd House/Taurus formula overall. taurus also intercepts your 4th house (Home) and is in your 5th house (Family, Relationships, Fun, Creativity e.t.c) so I might suggest your inner wound Chiron also affects these areas, and they will improve once you improve your inner wound.

Uranus in 8th house, Pluto in 8th house, Hades Moon, Neptune in Scorpio - these are good placements for a very intense and deep intuition, interest in occult hidden stuff, maybe prophetic dreams.I find it being a very cool placement for art/creativity as well.

Your North node is in Libra - meaning your past is connected to Aries sign, you might have some Aries traits, like being individualistic, driven, active, you might act very impulsively sometimes without thinking. It might be connected to you trying to establish yourself as an individual. These are the traits you might already have so its better for you to try and learn more from Libra sign now - this will bring you good luck. Being more soft and diplomatic, trying to connect to people, be interested in them, ask them about their interest e.t.c. There might be this theme in your life, that when you try to actively express you individuality, talk about yourself, or try to make people understand you - it just doesn't work, you get ignored or misunderstood. But as soon as you start talking about someone else, ask them how they are, be interested in other people ask them their opinion, talk about their problems or happiness - you suddenly become centre of attention, and people start adoring you and be interested in you, everyone wants to hear your advice or opinion. Basically if you try to concentrate on Libra traits and learn more from this sign - it will bring you good luck and success more than being like Aries/expressing Aries traits.

I think that when Saturn entered Sagittarius in 2016 and triggered your Jupiter and Mercury in 11 house, you might have started to expand or think about expanding your social circle, maybe you started getting out of your shell so to speak. Then when it entered your 12th house you might have sort of isolated yourself to think about these new ideas more, it might explain your interest in astrology as well, like you are spending some time on your own to understand what you want and how to go on about it. From your post I can see you have a good and positive outlook on your life and moving in the right direction. I think that your Saturn Return that happened in January triggered this desire to transform yourself and come out of your shell. Its like your personality transformation ad liberation maybe?

My Saturn is in last degree of Sagittarius, so it was in December 2017. Iv been trying to understand my Saturn return as well so iv been studying transits and events from the past and from my friends charts (all around Sat returns etc). It usually triggers events almost on exact dates of falling onto Natal Chart points. Events that are connected to your sat return themes.

Since nothing been going on for me I analysed the transits and I think its due to Saturn going retrograde soon in April and going back and forth in the first degrees of Capricorn. We will probably experience some real change closer to end of this year, Jupiter will enter Sagittarius at that time as well, it will trigger your Jupiter and Mercury soon. and probably some changes in social life you planned will start happening. Your Saturn conjunction Saturn in 4' will happen again in mid July and also in October this year, so you might look out for these dates as well, they might I've you clues - after that it will start mowing forward and hopefully life will start moving forward as well

Last edited by l1lp; 04-10-2018 at 06:09 PM.
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  #6  
Unread 04-10-2018, 06:40 PM
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Re: Mars-Saturn Conjunction of 2 Apr 2018

l1lp, thank you for taking the time! I don't have any specific comments at the moment but I do appreciate the insights you have provided.
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  #7  
Unread 04-11-2018, 03:40 AM
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Re: Mars-Saturn Conjunction of 2 Apr 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by l1lp
Since 2th house is also material possesions, Chiron being there might indicate the situation with cluttered house. Like accumulation of stuff (material possessions) is linked to your inner wound. I think house situation will slowly resolve when you attend to your Chiron problems. Sometimes this happens because we are not ready/scared on subconscious level of getting close to people, inviting them to our house, so this manifest in the outside clutter that sort of prevents us from actually building closer relationships from with the outside world, inviting it in - this subconscious isolation ties well with Aquarius. I think its well described by Chiron/Aquarius/2nd House/Taurus formula overall. taurus also intercepts your 4th house (Home) and is in your 5th house (Family, Relationships, Fun, Creativity e.t.c) so I might suggest your inner wound Chiron also affects these areas, and they will improve once you improve your inner wound.
Hmm, there might be something to that. I had been looking at it the other way around -- i.e., the clutter and "Mister Havisham" state of affairs in my house just happened over the years, and the consequence is that I would be embarrassed to have people over -- but maybe I am letting it remain that way for some reason. I have had three months off work now but haven't really done much to improve the situation. I seem to have some conflict between wanting to expand my social network and having people over versus wanting to remain a hermit -- maybe these early months without so much human contact (from work) are a time for reflection. Maybe I don't want to be "contaminated" by the influence of others yet, even though it would probably be a good thing. Possibly related to that stubborn assertion of self indicated in the chart.

Quote:
Uranus in 8th house, Pluto in 8th house, Hades Moon, Neptune in Scorpio - these are good placements for a very intense and deep intuition, interest in occult hidden stuff, maybe prophetic dreams.I find it being a very cool placement for art/creativity as well.
Completely valid, given my knowledge of myself. No prophetic dreams, although I have good dream recall, which was something I developed as a kid. Intuitive but not very psychic. In my early 30s I did notice an increase in synchronicities when I was working on creative projects -- which tipped me off to things being connected funny behind the scenes. In fact it kind of spooked me.

Quote:
Your North node is in Libra - meaning your past is connected to Aries sign, you might have some Aries traits, like being individualistic, driven, active, you might act very impulsively sometimes without thinking. It might be connected to you trying to establish yourself as an individual. These are the traits you might already have so its better for you to try and learn more from Libra sign now - this will bring you good luck. Being more soft and diplomatic, trying to connect to people, be interested in them, ask them about their interest e.t.c. There might be this theme in your life, that when you try to actively express you individuality, talk about yourself, or try to make people understand you - it just doesn't work, you get ignored or misunderstood. But as soon as you start talking about someone else, ask them how they are, be interested in other people ask them their opinion, talk about their problems or happiness - you suddenly become centre of attention, and people start adoring you and be interested in you, everyone wants to hear your advice or opinion. Basically if you try to concentrate on Libra traits and learn more from this sign - it will bring you good luck and success more than being like Aries/expressing Aries traits.
Thanks for the advice! For a long time I was very introverted and common social skills were low, such as greeting people, asking how they're doing, etc. (I did eventually get better in that area.) On the other hand, people sometimes open up to me and start confiding their personal business without any prompting from me (that I'm aware of). They must perceive me as a good listener. That movement along the nodal axis from Aries to Libra seems valid in my case.

Quote:
I think that when Saturn entered Sagittarius in 2016 and triggered your Jupiter and Mercury in 11 house, you might have started to expand or think about expanding your social circle, maybe you started getting out of your shell so to speak. Then when it entered your 12th house you might have sort of isolated yourself to think about these new ideas more, it might explain your interest in astrology as well, like you are spending some time on your own to understand what you want and how to go on about it.
Makes sense to me. I really appreciate your taking the time to write.
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Unread 04-11-2018, 03:50 AM
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Re: Two T-squares and a microphone

I have redacted my reply because the user who posted the thread stated he felt: over discussed.

Last edited by Renee35; 04-11-2018 at 02:16 PM. Reason: The user said he felt "over discussed"
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Unread 04-11-2018, 04:30 AM
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Re: Mars-Saturn Conjunction of 2 Apr 2018

Hi, Renee

I enjoyed reading your juicy and informative post. I'll have to read up on that sex you speak of. I think I'm plain vanilla in my tastes, though.

I think of myself primarily as an artist, but that was not what I did to support myself. Also, my artistic output has been meager so far, but in a few different areas. Scattered interests and not driven or motivated as some artists are.

Fear of STDs yes -- but I think that was common-sense self-preservation. I did fall for someone once who was actually into me as well, but he turned out to be dying of AIDS and he was afraid of infecting me. Weeks after we met he went home to his parents. That encounter was good for both of us, though. His parents and brother even thanked me!

I appreciate your taking the time to write -- some novel ideas to consider.

Thank you and best wishes,
MB
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Unread 04-11-2018, 04:47 AM
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Re: Mars-Saturn Conjunction of 2 Apr 2018

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Originally Posted by MoonBucket View Post
Hi, Renee

I enjoyed reading your juicy and informative post. I'll have to read up on that sex you speak of. I think I'm plain vanilla in my tastes, though.

I think of myself primarily as an artist, but that was not what I did to support myself. Also, my artistic output has been meager so far, but in a few different areas. Scattered interests and not driven or motivated as some artists are.

Fear of STDs yes -- but I think that was common-sense self-preservation. I did fall for someone once who was actually into me as well, but he turned out to be dying of AIDS and he was afraid of infecting me. Weeks after we met he went home to his parents. That encounter was good for both of us, though. His parents and brother even thanked me!

I appreciate your taking the time to write -- some novel ideas to consider.

Thank you and best wishes,
MB
PS Your DC in Cancer is much like a man with Lilith there - it does indicate you end up with someone who loves their family, who cares for others, who is warm, affectionate, very moody around full and new moons, but loyal to their core - also psychic, even if they say it's God and not them. You won't end up alone, it'll be with one of the many people that already want you that you feel a pull towards because of their compassion, lunacy, and devotion.

Nighty-night
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Unread 04-11-2018, 12:13 PM
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Re: Two T-squares and a microphone

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Originally Posted by Renee35 View Post
__________,
TBH, I'm not sure how to fill in some of the blanks. Language, please!

Quote:
I've never heard tale of using Chiron to figure out the shape formation of the chart
Yeah, that was silly of me. Back to bucket formation.

Quote:
Using the whole house system (the eldest and what Nostradamus would use)
A few people here seem to prefer equal-house over Placidus -- I'm starting to look into that. House systems are on my list.

Quote:
Your Sun is in the late degrees of Scorpio, like Aquarius that means your were a little ____ at times in youth
???

Quote:
Shocked you weren't sexual during the 80's
I didn't say that, but I should mention that you seem much more interested in discussing my sex life than I am.

Quote:
The Gem moon means you like a splash of _____ too!
Lime juice?

[...]

I don't disagree with most of what you wrote about my parents, but they are not up for discussion. In fact, I'm starting to feel a little over-discussed myself.

But I do understand this was all with good intentions and through your own personal lens.

Quote:
PS Your DC in Cancer is much like a man with Lilith there - it does indicate you end up with someone who loves their family, who cares for others, who is warm, affectionate, very moody around full and new moons, but loyal to their core
Sounds kind of suffocating to me.

Quote:
- also psychic, even if they say it's God and not them.
Funny you should say that, because it's in line with my beliefs re: God as mediator of psychic events.

Quote:
You won't end up alone, it'll be with one of the many people that already want you that you feel a pull towards because of their compassion, lunacy, and devotion.
Time will tell. Not sure I want the responsibility of having someone who is devoted to me, though.

NOTE to anyone else who might comment: I'm not interested in predictions (which I am just discovering, now that some have been made).
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Unread 04-11-2018, 02:14 PM
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Re: Two T-squares and a microphone

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBucket View Post
TBH, I'm not sure how to fill in some of the blanks. Language, please!



Yeah, that was silly of me. Back to bucket formation.



A few people here seem to prefer equal-house over Placidus -- I'm starting to look into that. House systems are on my list.



???



I didn't say that, but I should mention that you seem much more interested in discussing my sex life than I am.



Lime juice?

[...]

I don't disagree with most of what you wrote about my parents, but they are not up for discussion. In fact, I'm starting to feel a little over-discussed myself.

But I do understand this was all with good intentions and through your own personal lens.



Sounds kind of suffocating to me.



Funny you should say that, because it's in line with my beliefs re: God as mediator of psychic events.



Time will tell. Not sure I want the responsibility of having someone who is devoted to me, though.

NOTE to anyone else who might comment: I'm not interested in predictions (which I am just discovering, now that some have been made).
I'll delete my post then! I thought based on the PM you sent me and the response from another to this thread that you were interested in all.

Have a great day
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Unread 04-11-2018, 02:47 PM
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Re: Two T-squares and a microphone

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Originally Posted by Renee35 View Post
I'll delete my post then! I thought based on the PM you sent me and the response from another to this thread that you were interested in all.

Have a great day
Not necessary, but probably for the best. I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong ideas about me based on all that pornographic speculation.

A good day to you as well.
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