Ghost Synastry: Me and my Dad

So in a string of very mysterious and tragic events, my dad died before he ever even got a chance to see or know me. But being born with a 12th house Sun, I've had some weird experiences and lately, something tells me that he's still active in my life.

I just found out his birthday for the first time and did a rough synastry chart as I don't know his birth time yet. I have predicted a Virgo rising as it seems to fit the personality descriptions my mom gave of him.

IMMEEEEEEDIATELY impressive conjunctions stand out and It's such a surreal feeling that I'm having trouble interpreting. I'd like a little insight from you guys. What do these synastry contacts mean if he is not around to play them out?

Or do these interactions still happen, but at another plane of reality?

Thank You so much, this is a very special post for me.

A lot of the orbs are bang on.

I'm particularly interested in his vesta almost exactly opposite my ascendant. And His venus exactly conjunct my north node

The synastry would be best interpreted as the ripple effects his life's actions will have on your life. Though he is dead, when he was alive his actions created ripples, which will continually affect your life, as yours will to others.

So some of the things the aspects imply is that the Uranus/Pluto conjunction to your Sun/Mercury is, that his death will have an impact on your self overall and the way you think of yourself. As your Mercury is combust this will be a particularly intense influence. You will probably dwell on speculation of what he thought of you. His death may affect you throughout your life in multiple and unexpected ways. You may end up being quite consumed with knowing who he was as a living person. As the influence falls in your 12th, yes there may be some potential for contact.

Everything you said sounds pretty accurate. I've found other interesting things in our charts.

His sun and moon midpoint is exactly on my moon

My Ascendant Midheaven midpoint is exactly on his Sun.

This is very eerie to me as I never even had a chance to meet this man, don't even know much about his life and Yet the synastry implies that we have important influences on each other

SO WEIRD!

Jupit3r, I find those Astrodienst bi-wheels very hard to read. Would you be willing to post the two charts separately and then to add a midpoint composite chart? (You can also do this at Astrodienst-- and BTW, their charts are much easier to read than the other sites'. Also it is helpful to see the degrees on the planets, which the bi-wheel doesn't give.)

Did Dad have sun square Neptune?

I do get the feeling that whatever the reason was for your father dying young, it would be helpful if you could share what it is. Most things astrological are ruled by a particular sign, house, or planet; so knowing what we are dealing with in real life helps us to know what to look at in the horoscope.

Judging from what I can read off the bi-wheel, your dad was a pretty intense person, with that Pluto, Uranus, and Mars retrograde in his first house. Dutch astrologer Karen Hamaker-Zondag suggests that one's own 12th house indicates what Mom was experiencing at the time of a child's birth. I don't think this is always correct (my daughter also has a 12th house Virgo sun-Mercury and she was a very welcome and untroubled addition to the family.) However, it may be true in some cases, and it would appear, if we follow KH-Z's thesis, that Mom keenly felt the absence of your father when you were born, as the sun is one indicator of the husband/male partner in a woman's chart.

Have you talked to her at length about your dad? Are you in touch with your paternal grandparents? They should have some real information for you that would be helpful.

@waybread I don't have a birth time for Dad yet. I'm in the process of getting it now; I just used Virgo as a guessed ascendant based on descriptions of him.

The history behind my biological dad it's quite an intense story...

He was involved in the drug dealing and from what I heard he had got involved in some business that went bad and was murdered... Ill spare you the details because it was done in a cold and very malicious way.

It's v e r y interesting that you bring that up about my mothers state around my birth...

Because I have comfort of anonymity (and for the sake of amazing astrology) I can be honest with you about my birth past.

I was conceived by another man outside of my moms relationship with my "Dad". That man, who is my biological Dad, died when I was 6 months years old... in the scenario I described at the top of the post.

My mom told me that my Dad wasnt my biological father when i was 11. Then light bulb went off because I always knew I looked different than him. It didn't change our relationship though. They had been separated for as long as I can remember but I still look at him as my real dad.

So being that I have this crazy origin story, I find it SUPER interesting that the planets during his day of birth makes such potent aspects with my chart.

I think one of the most chilling aspects I saw was his venus conjunct my north node.

I found this description
"When your Venus is conjunct your partner’s North Node, or vice-versa, an instant attraction is indicated. The desire to impress or inspire one another is strong, due to the fact that the couple feels they are “going somewhere” together.

Many astrologers, like Celeste Teal, insist that when this aspect is present in synastry, the individuals are setting the stage for a future meeting, and that the likelihood of a real relationship forming in this lifetime is unlikely. In my personal experience, I’ve found this to be true. Perhaps barriers to love exist between the two of them, which deny the formation of a love relationship. Perhaps the Node person doesn’t feel “ready” to embrace the qualities the Venus person represents because it makes them feel out of their comfort zone. However, if there are other strong aspects (especially to either person’s Nodes), the likelihood of forming a lasting relationship in this lifetime is increased."

Crazy!

Hi Jupit3r-- Wow!

One thing I wouldn't recommend is using a false birth time if you don't have the accurate one, because it can throw the house cusps way off. I don't know about you, but my eyes tend to read the cusps as real, even if my brain knows they're not. It's better to learn to read a chart without houses. Astrodienst gives you a noon default birth time anyway, so just realize that the moon could move 6 degrees either way.

There are some chart rectification methods, mostly based upon timing of events, but you would have to learn a lot more about your fathers' lives to use them. The trouble is that similar behaviours can have more than one astrological cause.

Do you want to post your biological father's chart as well (if I have your story straight, he was the one who was murdered when you were a baby?) Plus a midpoint composite chart? You can do the midpoint chart at Astrodienst, as well. This would make it easier to look at your relationship.

BTW, is the Dad whom you believed to be your bio-father still in your life? I wasn't clear on that part.

Incidentally, your own chart looks decently robust, despite what I gather was a difficult start in life. I note that you have two yods, plus what would appear to be an ambivalent relationship with Mom. Understandably.

@Waybread Ahhh I don't have a birth time on my biological dad yet. All i know is his birthdate and place (2/10/65 Odgen, Utah) Hopefully ill have it within the next couple days. I just got a hold of his mother's number (my bio-grandmother) so I will be giving her a call to find his birth time!! That should be an interesting conversation! I'm pretty excited to see how his chart truly overlays mine.

And as for my Dad that I grew up with, yes he is still in my life. He married my step mom when I was 4 or 5 and lives in Atlanta. I'm actually going to visit them in 2 weeks. Interestingly though, both Dads are Aquarius Suns. My Mom is an Aries. With my Virgo sun that pretty much makes my life a Yod.

I'm glad you pointed the yods out. I often wonder what purpose the yods serve in my chart/life. According to Dane Ruhdyar the apex planet looks for relief between the midpoints of the leg planets (so 1st house Libra for moon, and 9th house Cancer for uranus?) I often try to solve the riddle my moon presents because I can feel that my relationship problems stem from my stressed moon in seventh house and I guess implicitly from my relationship with my mom.

We have a very Karmic-feeling relationship (as most parent-child bonds do) . Our midpoint composite chart has sun, mercury and venus exactly conjunct in the 8th house with a Scorpio ascendant. There's a lot of love there but it's a heavy feeling bond. Theres other interesting aspects in our synastry such as her BML conjunct my 10th house south node (leo), my Ascendant conjunct her Uranus 9th house (libra) and her Asteroid Karma conjunct my Descendant (Aries)

As of now I only have an exact birth time for my Mom. I'll post her natal and our composite as reference

p.s. thanks Waybread for taking so much time to respond to my posts..this has helped me to feel very welcomed and involved. Much appreciated!

I'm not sure how to attach multiple pictures in one post! It only gives me the option to upload one!

This is Moms Natal

Heres My bio-dads chart without house cusps

Thanks, Jupit3r-- Actually, it's a lot more interesting for me to interact with someone who is avidly learning astrology-- and reading (gasp, shock!) actual books on the subject! For so many astro-learners, if it's not on the Internet, they're not interested.

There's a lot here, but just to start with a few chart patterns....

A yod is basically two quincunxes jointed by a sextile. A quincunx on its own gives annoyance or uncertainty. There is an issue, but it doesn't demand resolution or some kind of manifestation the way a square would. The sextile helps to link the quincunxes together, in a way that generates some ease and delight (3-series) but with a desire to manifest (2-series.) I think a sextile suggests excitement. If a 4th planet opposes the apex planet, this strengthens the configuration.

With the baby boomers and beyond, everyone ended up with a Neptune-Pluto sextile, so we would view that as generational, not personal, unless personal planets are involved.

In your case, we get the moon as one apex planet; and Uranus (possibly Neptune) as the other one, with the IC involved. One reading of the moon is Mom. Uranus conjunct the IC would suggest to me some instability in your early home life. Neptune has a "now you see it, now you don't" quality to it: it may be that you did not feel grounded or secure as a child.

In traditional astrology, the IC and 4th house indicated Dad and the paternal inheritance. Mom (as Dad's wife, a 7th house matter) was then counted as 7 houses from the 4th, or the MC and 10th house. Modern astrologers often like to match up signs and houses, so they reversed the order, assigning the 4th house to Cancer >>>Moon>>>Mom; and the 10th house to Dad.

I suggest you simply look for the best fit. Either way, the 4th house and IC seem to relate to one's early childhood conditioning and ancestry.

The more I think about your chart and the kinds of questions you've been asking, the more I think you might wish to conduct a serious study of your family history (ruler of the 5th house of hobbies in the 4th house of ancestors, in heritage-oriented Capricorn.) This study should not only reveal some interesting information about your biological father, but you might wish to go back further in time. Fortunately there is so much data now on-line, notably at the Mormons' (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) family history archives.

If your grandparents are living, you might wish to start by interviewing them. Possibly your biological paternal grandparents are living. Do they know about you? A good reason to learn more about your bio-dad is that if he had any hereditary health conditions, it's best if you know about them.

Part of the reason why I say that you might enjoy family history is your 12th house sun. One way to learn about oneself is through a study of your roots. In the traditional "house of self-undoing," however, it is hard for the ego to develop a firm sense of identity in the 12th. The 12th seems to indicate things hidden from us, although possibly apparent to others.

I wonder if you are trying to trick or do an end-run around the identity issue by studying astrology. There is nothing wrong with that (at least, it's how I got into astrology) but with the sun in Virgo the 12th house, at some level the 12th house asks its solar natives to give up the effort, and to focus on being helpful (Virgo) to others.

Although the quest for a firm identity may ultimately prove illusory, you will learn an awful lot in the process. The journey is its own reward.

Hi again. Just a word about your bio-Dad's chart. He had Neptune square sun and Mercury. Not everyone with a Neptune square to the sun or other personal planet becomes a substance abuser, but these aspects seem to be common in the charts of people who are.

This is another placement (like sun in the 12th or Neptune in the first) where it is hard for the individual to develop a firm sense of self. The sun is one's core identity, yet Neptune keeps dissolving it. A well-navigated sun-Neptune can be the visionary, the mystic, or (actually) the scientist. If you think about it, scientists often have a vision of a reality beyond naively given facts, and this is what drives their research.

Sun-square-Neptune people who are not scientists may find this "dissolving" process to be very painful, and tend to self-medicate with alcohol or drugs. Liz Greene, in her book on Neptune, talks about sun-Neptune people longing to sacrifice the ego in order to merge with the divine. Well, this works for people with a deep religious faith; but for less spiritual people, getting high creates that sense of ego-sacrifice.

Then his sun-Neptune is involved in a T-square with Jupiter. Jupiter-Neptune can be the energy of, "If a little is good, a lot is better." Neither planet is particularly realistic.

Bio-Dad had a second T-square involving Pluto-Uranus, Moon, and Saturn. If we take the moon here to symbolize his emotions, his feelings must have been through the wringer. Often.

Mars seems to have been the least-troubled planet in his chart. It also made a quintile to the sun. Mars is both male sexuality and aggression in a man's chart. It may be that acting-out was the one way he was able to feel in control of his life.

Hopefully your study of astrology will lead you to some sort of compassion for the inner demons with which this man struggled and eventually succumbed.

It is interesting that moon-Pluto aspects seem to run in the family. These oftentimes relate to a family "skeleton in the closet."

Good luck with your astro-studies-- one book I highly recommend if you've not read it already is Steven Forrest, The Inner Sky.

Wow! I really appreciate this!

I never could Imagine what his life might be like until now. He was a drug dealer, but
I never suspected that he could have been a drug user too.

Another part to this story is I've developed a relationship with one of his sons that he had before he died. I got an accurate birth time on him and there are lot of fascinating connections. I got Into midpoints recently and noticed he had his
sun exactly conjunct my mars sq. venus midpoint...(most trouble-some aspect)
saturn/mars on my Moon Yod midpoint....
And his POF on my Uranus yod midpoint

I definitely will be giving a look into my family history. I called my bio-grandma the other day but she didn't answer. I figure she'll probably give me a call this week. I'm interested in how our synastry would be as well.

I think the fourth probably stands for my Dad because obviously this is a very unique (uranus) and mysterious (neptune) situation. Even though my Living Dad has been in my life , he has mostly lived in Atlanta and I've mostly stayed in LA. Not having a Dad has its restrictions (saturn in 4th), though I've had a grandfather (my living Dads father) who stepped up in my life. And from what I know, both of my fathers are very unique (uranus) people.

As far as the identity issues, as you said sun neptune aspects usually call for dissolving of the ego, and fortunately I was blessed with sun trine neptune in the 12th house. I very much lean
towards the spiritual scientist engineer mind state and I do use my fair share of the green stuff *wink wink* At the end of the day I realize that life is one on all levels and I try to dissolve in more positive ways with meditation, dream work or through music..

I've always wondered what my 12th house Sun/Merc in Virgo was all about.
@waybread you said you had a daughter with that placement right?
Is there anything about that everybody notices that she doesn't seem to realize?
Interestingly I've read that 12th house sun relates to disappearing fathers, that at least
applies to me and a few charts I've read.

I will do some research on moon pluto because it does seem that everyone's my immediate household has moon-pluto aspects when I think about it

ill definitely give that book a look !

Way to go on your astro-studies, Jupit3r. You're on a very strong trajectory.

I am not sure I could describe my daughter's 12th house Virgo Mercury-sun very well, because much of her chart is very different from yours. Also, we are on good terms and love each other very much, but she hasn't lived close by for some time, so I don't see her very often. No doubt her friends see a different side of her than I do!

I would say about the Virgo part, a lot of sensitivity. In some area of their lives, Virgos see things in microscopic detail that other people miss. You mentioned on another thread being a musician, for example, so it's possible that you will hear things in the music (flaws, wrong notes) that other people miss. I guess also a sense that she was trying to develop a strong ego, but it seemed like it wasn't going to happen. A sense of being overlooked, bypassed. This seems rather 12th house. However, I think now she has settled into her vocation in life (elementary school teaching) and there are other things that support this in her chart.

There is a school of thought that posits Saturn as the father in a night birth, and the sun as the father in a day birth. At least Saturn in the 12th supposedly does indicate a dad who was absent in some way: perhaps physically absent, or perhaps simply emotionally unavailable. I would think if the "father planet" in the 12th were well-aspected, probably this wouldn't be such a problem for the child.

Hey Waybread how's it going?

I was doing some studying and thinking about all that you said. I had to do some researching on T-Squares and I'm seeing that my Dad must have put himself under an insane amount of pressure to "be somebody".

I read up on sun squared neptune and sun squared jupiter and I began wondering about their midpoints. After calculating I found out that his sun Sq neptune midpoint is exactly conjunct uranus on my I.C. And the Sun sq Jupiter midpoint is conjunct the darkside of my ascendant about 2 degrees

It kind of gives me chills thinking about it because the midpoints give me a feeling that even though I never met him, he would have been somebody who genuinely appreciated who I am. Possibly more than anyone else. Maybe in a way I represent the things he wish he could be.

It gives me a feeling that he is living vicariously through me, which is especially Erie when you say that about someone who isn't alive anymore.

Thanks again waybread, you are truly appreciated

BTW I talked with my bio brother and he said that he found out that our dad was born in the early am ! That's as detailed a birth time I have now so maybe ill run some whole sign charts for that morning and see if anyone makes sense!

This is really neat and I'm afraid I don't really have much to contribute because you guys are talking way out of my realm, but keep us posted!! There is definitely a connection between you two, the astrology behind family relationships is always so interested.

Thanks for your feedback, Jupit3r!

Astrology can be uncanny. Even though I am a natural sceptic, I don't discount my personal experiences of astrology.

Hopefully you can meet family members who knew your bio-dad, and begin piecing together a picture of what he was like.