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Degree Symbols Discuss your experiences with all symbol systems based on astrological degrees in the chart (i.e., Sabian Symbols, Kozminsky Symbols, etc.): the symbols for the transiting Sun and Moon and the events of your life, the symbols of your natal chart...


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  #401  
Unread 08-30-2020, 12:49 AM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

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Originally Posted by CapAquaPis View Post
If Jesus Christ was born on March 27-29, 28 AD...he would been crucified on April 12-14, 60 AD in the age of 32 and 14 days. An Aries sun/Libra moon or in sidereal, Pisces sun/Virgo moon, but we're talking about nearly 2,000 years ago and he should been clearly an Aries with a Virgo element. Also he would have a Venus conjunct Saturn in Taurus, Mars in Scorpio, Jupiter conjunct Neptune in Capricorn, Uranus conjunct True Node in Cancer and Pluto in Sagittarius.
So, you are saying that you believe a man such as He would have to have these aspects you've mentioned, or are you basing this on what was in aspect at that date in 60 A.D.?

If you will refer to the chart I produced, it does have Sun and Uranus in Aries, and a Virgo Moon.

Most people seem to insist on believing that He would have Venus in Pisces, which is also wwhat the chart I produced has. Venus in Taurus would be in a Sign of its own rulership and then are you suggesting that you think Venus should be the final depositor of the natal chart of such a man?
Libra is the Asc. in my chart, Pluto in Libra As I am of the belief that the Planet that rules Sagittarius and Pisces was shattered and became the asteroids, well then, any planet found in either of those two signs is unable to deposit itself.

I cannot be dissuaded from that belief about those two Signs and the asteroids either. I spent many months studying the issue, my brother, whom is far more studied in the occult and esoteric lore and origins of the science of astrology also is of like mind. As He once told me, but couldn't remember the source so as to cite, he read that "Lucifer shattered that planet between Mars and Jupiter so as to confuse the psyche of mankind"
I don't buy into the theories of Stitchin, however. If I were to be asked to guess where my brother read that I would be, at the present, most likely to say that he possibly read it in "Hamlet's Mill" by Giorgio de Santillana. That is a book I tried to read many, many, years ago but much like the writings of Gurdjieff I found it preponderantly "thick" and difficult too read and mentally digest. As I have stated many times, my intelligence is in the realm of mathematics, physics, the physical sciences in general... I scored in the 98th percentiles when tested for aptitudes in those subjects while i was in school as a lad but my reading comprehension, vocabulary associated aptitudes and such were tested to be in the lower ranges of average. thus the reason despite my having what was tested to be an I.Q. around 134 when I was in school, I couldn't complete a college education and dropped out after only acquiring about a years worth of credits..and that was for three years of effort.

I read, but not a great deal compared to most people, I hate writing as for the reason I'm just not very good at it, [if one has difficulty in reading comprehension, then it stands to reason they aren't going to ever amount to much as a writer, either.] yet, here I am, apparently "chosen" for this task... as more than one clairvoyant has told me, and a couple of gurus... go figure?

I read what i find to be of real interest, so much so that I just have to read it out of extreme interest and desire. If something doesn't "ring true" to me at the onset, or soon after, I toss it aside.
Like my M.c. and Part of Fortune [which is conjunct with my M.C. in the 25th degree of Leo has for their Sabian Symbol {the M.C.'s Sabian Symbol being the "WHY" of one's natal chart axis, that is the "WHY" of the transformation given from the symbolism found for the Asc. to that of the symbolism found for the Desc., i.e. the "WHERE-TO" [or "WHOM-TO", as I sometimes use, for easier understanding for some people] and the M.C.'s Sabian Symbol being the "HOW" of the char axis' given transformation when interpreted as to ones spiritual evolution [ the former in regard to ones mundane affairs] and that the Part of Fortune symbolically gives the action, or societal role one must portray in accordance with their native culture, or the individual mental attitude one must always keep in mind [one of those three concepts as those are the three types of Sabian Symbols as to how hey are to be understood and employed] the 25th degree of Leo being that of the "EMOTIONAL/CUTURAL" variety of Sabian Symbol, as identified by Dane Rudhyar is given as thus by Dane [and when you read it keep in mind that it is the "HOW" of my transformational process, regarding my spiritual self, the "WHY" as to all mundane endavors in my life and also the Sabian for the Part of Fortune that I have...so it is that which when I do keep it as an Emotional/Cultural guide and do so stick to it as being what will produce the most fortuitous circumstances as an outcome to give the greatest aid in achieving that transformation, to achieve my destiny, to fulfill my dharma, "that" which some have sid I was chosen for and maybe you come to the same understanding I eventually did. that I had to avoid so many books, and schools of though, teachers on various subjects because ther are more false teachings, wrongful beliefs, corrupted truths out there awaiting to cloud ones mind and thinking that there are ready truths to be found...[there can only be one truth about anything...but and endless amount of lies. Which is kind of a description of the internet at present, isn't it? It is if you think about it, that is] [ibid.]

LEO 25°: A LARGE CAMEL IS SEEN CROSSING A VAST AND FORBIDDING DESERT.

KEYNOTE:

Self-sufficiency in the face of a long and exhausting adventure.


The camel here represents a living organism that is able to sustain itself independently of its environment at the start of a trying journey. (The original formulation of the symbol did not refer to 'a man on camel back'.) The organism carries within itself what is absolutely needed for survival. At the deeper human level of consciousness it is easy to see the value of self-reliance and self-sufficiency as one enters the occult Path leading to a more dynamic and more inclusive realm of existence.

The camel carries water within its body, and it is said that the dromedary is able to utilize the matter stored in its large protuberance as food. The suggestion here is that in order to be released from bondage to the 'old world' we should be completely self-contained emotionally; having absorbed the mental food which this old culture has given us, we are ready to face "the desert," nothingness, Sunya . . . until we reach the 'new world.' We need
TOTAL INDEPENDENCE from our surroundings and utter SELF-RELIANCE."


In the town I lived in from age ten until I graduated from high school, Tujunga, Calif. being on the Western Slope of the extent of the San Gabriel Mountain range where it stops and the San Fernando Valley lies below it some 2200 feet, the most prominent feature of the crest of that slope the town sits upon is the ridge leading up to Mt. Lukens behind the town, that ridge is called "Camelsback" ... coincidence, or perhaps just another "sign" put in place to give me reassurance if needed later in life...[as it wasn't unil 13 years after I had graduated from high school that I even lerned of the existence of the Sabian Symbols, much less what Sabians are significant to my own natal chart.

Even my spritual path has been one of self discovery and self suffieciency...as I didn't know it at the time but that path of discipleship began at age 15 when I first tried meditation and the use of Japa yoga, and after trying to find my true guru, my true yogic path for years, only to give up and remain true to my own practice and beliefs as what little technique of yogic practices I was given and worked for me and what beliefs I came to conclude were genuine, did I find out at age 50 that I had my guru all along... learning it from a book written by Swami Sivananda [whom I had had darshan with in a most vivd dream in 1975... a dream in symbolic demonstration that wasn't to be fully understood until the day came that the yogi, my friend I met in August of 1973, showed my that book by Swami Sivananda on Japa Yoga and I read that I am a most rare type of yogi given the rarest path I've ever heard of, my only guru is the bij, the Logos, AUM [or OM, however one prefers it be spelled in the English alphabet] not to be a renunciate, but to remain immersed in the societies of the temporal world, that such a yogi works through the chakras, that is masters them, in the reverse order form that which all other yogis master them. i.e. from the crown chakra to the base of the spine. That I have no satguru other than the bij, ...that is not Jesus/Yeshu'a, not Rama, not Buddha, not Mohammed, [I would add Khrishna here, but I've never been too sure if htat would be also correct as Krishna, as I understand it, was a manifestation into the flesh of the Christ spirit, itself... although I maybe wrong about that. It may have likely been a sould so advanced that it was already one with the Christ spirit when they were born...which makes more sense to me, but I don't wish to sep on any theological toes here, especially not those of the Hindu's and the practitioners of Vedic rites and such... whatever they believe is fine by me. So I suppose then I should add, not even Krishna, may I have as an archetype, a satguru, a "savior"... only the bij, the word of God, itself, is what I bow to and obey.
...which led me to the realization, that being so rare a being...possibly the only one presently alive even...as i have no knowledge of their being any other... that leaves me to be truely, and most correctly, taen o be of absolutely no bias towards or against any religion, true spiritual religion that is, in existence...and in all honesty, I haven't any. I have found truth in all that I studied, i.e. Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Hebrew, Christian, Manicheism, Bahai, Sikhism, Zen [I really dug the writings of Alan Watts when I was in my late teens and early 20's, then I discovered the writings of Ram Das and his book "Be Here Now"]...and the many sects found within most all of the afrementioned... some have their "kinks" and flaws, most all of them to some minor or greater extent...imho, that is... but all ultimately are sincre and are helpful in assisting one towards their goal of attain total spiritual evolution, transformation and then transfiguration...a being that is free of this imprefect reflection of the realm of perfection. That's what Yeshu'a did, He moved on upward and on ward...although as I presently understand it He is bound to this realm so as to assist all that may be in need of him as their archetype, their satgure, their savior... that statement of His, " I am the first and the last" becomes a lot more clear, totally understandable, when one takes into account what Edgar Cayce said as to whom the soul is that was Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth [one half of he soul of which the other half was Mariam, his virgin mother...and the had both been the Adam and Eve of the Red race, Five Adams, Five Eves, a pair for each of the Five Races of Man... but it was the pair from the Red race, those of the story of Genesis, in the Hebrew Tanakh... the Hebrews had been those that came to Egypt at the sinking of the last portion of Atlantis apprx. 12,500 B.C., that had built the Great Pyramid and the Sphinx, immediately upon arriving, became the belief known as the Aton [or Aten] of ancient Egypt [read Sigmund Freud's, Moses and Montheism for more about that] and placed a time capsule of all ancient history of mankind and past forgotten knowledge under the Sphinx, somewhere... i.e. what Cayce referred to as "The Hall of Records" of which two more identical chambers, "Halls" exist elsewhere on earth...all not to be found until humankind is again ready to know these things...and three of them will be discovered almost simultaneously so as to eliminate any doubts about the authenticity and genuineness of those accounts and such [the others allegedly somewhere in Tibet {I think I recall, maybe it was Nepal...up there, somewhere} and one sunken in the Atlantic Ocean on what was the continent of Atlantis at one time...but will arise again from the sea in the future, as explained by Edgar Cayce]

If you will go to my thread on The Astrological Parts derived from my natal chart for Jesus you will find that the Part of Bondage derived from that same natal chart is in the 30th degree of Aquarius. It is one of those degrees of the Zodiac for which the Sabian Symbol given by Elsie Wheeler was altered by Dane, but still represents, symbolically, the same precept. It also happens to be the longest worded description of a Sabian Symbol out of all 360 of them...since Dane re-described it.
I find it to be about as perfect a description of the 'Grat White Brotherhood", aka "The White Lodge", r.e. the assmbly of the Ascended Masters that have spirtually evolved from karmic bound to his earth and realm but remain here, in the etheric, or possibly the astral, realm so as to be of assistance to the rest of mankind... and hence what I was getting at in referring to jesus/Yeshu'a's statement 'I am the ifrst and I am the last"... I believe He was the first to have to enter this realm...being of the pair that gave cause for all to be banished from Eden, and thus having been the cause of that is karmically bound here until the last sould is free from it.

That Sabian Symbol for the 30th degree of Aquarius, the location of the Part of Bondage derived from my natal chart I contend is the true natal chart of the Nazarene is [ibid.]

"AQUARIUS 30°: DEEPLY ROOTED IN THE PAST OF A VERY ANCIENT CULTURE, A SPIRITUAL BROTHERHOOD IN WHICH MANY INDIVIDUAL MINDS ARE MERGED INTO THE GLOWING LIGHT OF A UNANIMOUS CONSCIOUSNESS IS REVEALED TO ONE WHO HAS EMERGED SUCCESSFULLY FROM HIS METAMORPHOSIS.

KEYNOTE:
The ability for the person with an open mind and a deep feeling for self-transcendence to come in contact with higher forms of existence.

The originally recorded Sabian symbol stated: 'The field of Ardath in bloom'. which referred to a scene in an occult novel by Marie Corelli centering upon ancient Babylon. The reference may well have been a 'blind' inasmuch as Marc Jones has stressed his inner contact with a Brotherhood with Babylonian (or 'Sabian') roots. A spiritual Brotherhood constitutes a state of 'multi-unity' — i.e. a multiplicity of individuals, if one thinks of the paths they trod to reach their final metamorphosis, but a unity of consciousness and 'Soul' —thus unanimity ('anima' meaning Soul). In this spiritual Whole each unit is a recognizable 'form' or entity if one looks at it with the eyes of personality; but when seen through a unified spiritual vision or from a distance, the Whole appears to be one single area of radiant light. Similarly, when studied by the modern physicist, light can be apprehended either as a stream of identifiable particles (photons) or as one continuous wave. Whether it is seen as one or the other depends on the point of view.

This is the last and culminating symbol of Scene Twenty-two of the cyclic ritual. This is indeed a fitting symbol, as the number 22 symbolizes all forms of mastery. At any level, it is a symbol of spiritual group fulfillment — of
CONSCIOUS TOTALITY OF BEING."


Yeshu'a/Jesus' Part of Bondage. That is demonstrating that He is in Karmic bondage to the "White Lodge", to become one of the Ascended Masters, perhaps He may have even been the first, but He certainly will be the last after every soul that is karmically bound to this plane of existence has finally been freed. "I am the first and the last".

I have been to the "White Lodge" during this present incarnation of mine. It happened when i made samadhi with the bij while meditating for the first time at age 15. It was a very brief visit, just there and back. long enough to see that it does indeed exist, what it is comprised of [just like the Sabian Symbol for the 30th degree of Aquarius illustrates...and their were all singing, as just like a church choir, a song comprised of one word, that consists of one note... the bij, in the Key of Aum, is best how I can describe it...and I, having made samadhi with the bij, resonated in that key... my soul rang like a bell made from the finest, the purest, crystal... everyone will experience this eventually, some have already, and I have no doubts that there are some whom do so at will when ever, where ever, for what ever reason there be. Those yogis that attain the recognition of "Swami" I have to imagine most, if not all, have that ability...may be some a bit more easily than others?...maybe? I am of inclination to believe that during the Kali yuga it was a bit more difficult to attain that level and also maintain it.

So, then, another Astrological Part derived from this natal chart...so perfect out of the 360 possible for to be symbolically that of in regard to Jesus/Yeshu'a and the precept given that is the provenance of the Astrological Parts' proper title. {As I have been in effort since creating the thread on the Astrological Parts listing to either prove the appropriateness of what the accepted title is, or which of the number of accepted given titles should be considered to be the most appropriate, by demonstrating that through an astrological Part taken fro the verified, bonafide, true natal chart of a person of well known historical accountings... of which I have used this natal chart I contend is the true natal chart for Jesus/Yeshu'a, be that as difficult as it is because of the ever incessant outcry of dissension regarding its validity. Yet so many , such as the Part of Fortune, the Part of Catastrophe, the Part of Increase and Benefits, the Part of Soul, the Part of Hyleg [by the traditional formula, at least as that formula is the only one accepted presently] in addition, the Sabian Symbol for the 12th House cusp, which is said to symbolize what the individual will say is the answer to the most daunting challenge, issue, problem, enigmatic question that the world presently faces [that is as to "presently' that would be during the individuals lifetime, but in regards to this natal chart of Yeshu'a/Jesus and what that Sabian Symbol is [ibid.] "VIRGO 4°: BLACK AND WHITE CHILDREN PLAY TOGETHER HAPPILY.
KEYNOTE:
The overcoming of socio-cultural prejudices." and Dane's 'Keyword' for this Sabian Symbol being "BROTHERHOOD"[B][I]
...AND IMHO, IT IS JUST AS DAUNTING, AS CHALLENGING, AS ENIGMATIC AND PROBLEMATIC NOW, PARTICULARLY IN THE UNITED STATES, AS IT MUST HAVE BEEN IN THE WORLD AT LARGE 2000 YEARS AGO.

With such an amount of evidence to date of the appropriatness of Sabian Symbology that this natal chart produces for that man known as Jesus/Yeshu'a of Nazareth and the inability of any other chart yet proposed or reviewd to even come clsoe, and many lacking even a single appropriate Sabian Symbol, I am perplexed at the still persistent stiff, unflinching, resistance on the part of my fellow astrologers to admit that it is at the very least most seemingly appropriate...hard nosed religious fundamentalists [what they perceive as being fundamental, anyways] the 'Hell fire and Brimstone, evangelistic type, the avowed of allegiance to the Vatican, and brainwashed that are incapable of thinking for themselves...those I can understand being resistant... but you astrologers...?


I have now almost completely resolved myself to the belief that it will take until the time that most, if not all, of you have died off and another generation of star gazers is the majority audience, those born under the influence of the Uranus Neptune conjunction in Capricorn in the late 1980's to mid 1990's, perhaps...and seems, imho, very likely to be the ones that will readily see the veracity of it and will both accept it and utilize it and will make great leaps foreword in advancing the understanding and usefulness of this science known as astrology.
I pray that I live at least long enough to see the first unmistakable stirrings of such... which, hopefully will be not more than another 25 years into the future... I'll be 92 years old by then...bout as long as I might expect to live.


But... getting back to you, CapAquaPis, and what I showed you about myself through that symbolism of the Camel crossing the desert...that I had to find my own path... that my teachers, in yoga [my mother] in astrology [my free thinking, highly intelligent, most studied in esoteric and occult lore, i.e. my brother Daniel] my teacher of astrology... only the "word of God" as my spirtual giuide and authority, I even had to teach myself to play a musical insrument, from a book and by listening to recrdings [the five string banjo] taught myself how to play tennis [and I played on the varsity teams in high school and college] studied all religions independently [and have come to the conclusion that they will all 'get you there", as long as you remain faithful and do the ascribed rites properly] ... that I was given such a path as that is what it took to arrive at and recognize, and not have any compunctions leading to reactionary denials of what truths were right there before me, naked to the eye... it takes that kind of independence from dogma and obfuscating rhetoric and especially from b.s, half truths, and outright lies, and of all the members i have met here and got to know these last 12 years C.A.P., you are one that is of the few that come closest to being exactly that in description of.

Think for yourself, let go of the dogma and rhetoric you've been practically bludgeoned with and embrace what truth you will eventually truely see.

I have faith in you yet...

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  #402  
Unread 08-31-2020, 07:48 AM
Bjorkstrand Bjorkstrand is offline
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

The ark of the covenant was opened up by ron wyatt on jan 6, 1982.
jesus's birthday.
The ark was underneath where jesus was crucified.
I'm always right.
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Unread 09-13-2020, 01:37 AM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

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Originally Posted by Bjorkstrand View Post
The ark of the covenant was opened up by ron wyatt on jan 6, 1982.
jesus's birthday.
The ark was underneath where jesus was crucified.
I'm always right.
REALLY NOW?

While I don't give wikipedia much credence to be the definitive word on much of any subject at all, I think it's safe to say they got this one correct.

From wikipedia:

"Wyatt was not considered credible by professional archaeologists and biblical scholars. The Garden Tomb Association of Jerusalem state in a letter they issue to visitors on request:

The Council of the Garden Tomb Association (London) totally refute the claim of Wyatt to have discovered the original Ark of the Covenant or any other biblical artifacts within the boundaries of the area known as the Garden Tomb Jerusalem. Though Wyatt was allowed to dig within this privately owned garden on a number of occasions (the last occasion being the summer of 1991) staff members of the Association observed his progress and entered his excavated shaft. As far as we are aware nothing was ever discovered to support his claims nor have we seen any evidence of biblical artifacts or temple treasures.

Archaeologist Joe Zias of Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA) has stated that 'Ron Wyatt is neither an archaeologist nor has he ever carried out a legally licensed excavation in Israel or Jerusalem. In order to excavate one must have at least a BA in archaeology which he does not possess despite his claims to the contrary. ... [His claims] fall into the category of trash which one finds in tabloids such as the National Enquirer, Sun etc.' "

So then, I suppose you're of the opinion that not only did He find it that He also smuggled it out of Israel and it now sit's in someones living room being used as a coffee table?
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  #404  
Unread 09-13-2020, 02:43 AM
Bjorkstrand Bjorkstrand is offline
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

as usual, u got the wrong chart.
2 bad
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  #405  
Unread 09-13-2020, 07:40 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

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Originally Posted by Bjorkstrand View Post
as usual, u got the wrong chart.
2 bad
Wrong chart?
I think you've got the wrong thread.

Still grasping at straws after all these years, huh?

I remind you again. It's cast on the date Edgar Cayce said the birth occurred.
It satisfies Dane Rudhyar's prediction of what would be found on the natal chart of the Nazarene.

I've given three radio interviews on the chart and have a book published...and soon a revised edition of that book.

What have you got, Bjork ol' buddy?

Broken dreams and a tear stained pillow is most likely all that you do have.

Come back when you've got something to really contribute.
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Unread 09-14-2020, 11:16 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Bjork, ol' buddy... you've been posting your objections to my chart for about as long as this thread has endured yet not once have you addressed degree symbolism... and that's what this sub-forum is about.

If you don't believe in degree symbolism then please ... just don't participate.

If, on the other hand, you do believe in degree symbolism then by all means participate and let us hear why you disagree with the chart based on that.

The video member Phoenix Venus made in which I narrate an introduction to, and an explanation of, this chart is apparently being heavily suppressed by youtube... in fact it doesn't even show up on her page at youtube as being among her uploads.
Yet the few that hve seen it have been fro the far greater part supportive and we've even gotten a couple of comments of high praise.

It's a slow process but we will eventually reach the masses with the truth.
Until that day comes, or I drop dead, be assured that I will continuously be an active participant in this thread of mine...

...and any post you make, is ultimately appreciated by me...as it keeps this thread among the current topics at this forum>

Appreciatively, ol' buddy, ptv.
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Unread 09-15-2020, 10:00 AM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

This was quite the find in a book that I've had for quite some time but have yet to read thoroughly from cover to cover.

From the book "Astrology and the Edgar Cayce Readings" by Margaret Gammon, [ARE Press, Virginia Beach, Virginia, copyright 1967 by Edgar Cayce Foundation] the following which was one of the readings given after Pluto had been discovered and so named [prior to that references to Pluto were given as the planet "Septimus" [Latin for "Seventh"] and sometimes as Vulcan. Reading 825-8 "gave the categorical statement that Pluto and the legendary 'Vulcan' were one and the same"
I find it very interesting that counting outward from the Sun, beginning with Earth, Pluto is the sixth planet unless one accounts the asteroids as having been a planet at one time. If Cayce meant to include the Earth in the count then why did He omit Mercury and Venus and not call Pluto "Nona", as that is Latin for ninth?

But I've digressed here from what I found to be "the Find" this evening in Gammon's book.
From page 46, the following, Italics and bracketed words are that of the authors':

[Quote] The most significant statement so far encountered in the readings comes with this description of Pluto's influence in 1100-27:

Q. Just what are the effects of Pluto, in conjunction with ones' ascendant?

A. This, as we find, is entirely amiss [different] from what we might call a physical expression; but, as we find indicated, these [influences] are a development that is occurring in the universe, or environs about the earth-Pluto. Not, as some have indicated, that it is gradually being dissipated. It is gradually growing, and thus is one of those influences that are to be a demonstrative activity in the future affairs or developments of man, towards the spiritual-minded influence, or those influences outside of himself.
These [individuals] in the present, as might be said, are merely the [ones] becoming aware of same. Rather, within the next hundred to two hundred years there may be a great deal of influence [of Pluto] upon the ascendancy of man; for it's closest of those to the activities of the earth, to be sure, and it is a developing influence, not one already established.
[Unquote.]

It seems to me that Cayce may have even been hinting that Yeshu'a/Jesus had been born with a Pluto Ascendant conjunction. As it has been at least 76 years, and maybe as much as 85 or more, since this reading was given we are just about to enter that period given as "within the next hundred to two hundred years"

Cayce also gave what the essential development for the soul lay in the "sojourns" among the various spheres, or planets, in the in between earthly incarnations.
"As in Mercury pertaining of Mind.
In Mars of Madness.
In Earth as of Flesh.
In Venus as Love
In Jupiter as Strength
In Saturn as the beginning of earthly woes, that to which all insufficient matter is cast for the beginning.
In that of Uranus as of the Psychic.
In that of Neptune as the Mystic.
In Septimus [Pluto] as of Consciousness
In Arcturus as of the developing." [reading 900-10]

[Arcturus was given in a few readings as being the central Sun/Star around which our own Sun orbited and that through which all souls must pass ... although I can't remember at this time if it was between every incarnation or upon graduating from this Solar system entirely?]

As to the above, the important thing to realize is that Cayce pointed to Pluto being that which gives the development of consciousness, and in that the Christ [Krishna] consciousness is the ideal, then it certainly stands to reason that one born for the role Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth was given as his fate would be one born with Pluto conjunct the Ascendant, and that it also would occur in the first degree of Libra.
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Last edited by piercethevale; 09-15-2020 at 10:03 AM.
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Unread 09-20-2020, 02:49 AM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

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Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
Please note: I apologize for having deleted most of this thread as it was in original form. At the time I did so I was determined to leave this forum and to never return and there were, at the time, too many trolls and as I no longer wanted to post at this forum and felt my energies would be better served elsewhere I wasn't going to return here solely to deal with them, thanks...piercethevale, aka Dave Mastry, aka Devananda

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Greetings.
Below is an image of a copy of the natal chart that I contend is that of Yeshu'a ben David aka Jesus of Nazareth.
It is by the date that Edgar Cayce gave as the date of birth and is the only date that Edgar Cayce ever gave as the date of birth. I've argued with at least 4 dozen of more challenges to that fact in the last ten years and if you wish to contest that He gave some other date I suggest that you reread the source material, i.e the specific reading that Edgar gave in which you believe he gave a different date, or another date in addition to the one I have used, because Edgar didn't. Reread it a third time a fourth time, whatever.... it doesn't change a thing. You are misunderstanding what Edgar stated and most likely are having a hard time understanding the stilted manner of speaking he had used when in trance.

Edgar was once asked, while He was in a trance if He could speak in a more colloquial manner so as to be better understood. Edgar's reply was "Better ye thy understanding."
Now, do you understand what I'm getting at here?


I will be in the process of revising this thread and restoring an original introduction here in this first post... as it once had but I stupidly deleted without thinking the whole thing through.

The chart below is the original chart. It is dated September 22, 2010, but it is true to the original first chart ever produced on November 7, 2004.

Sometime not long after I made this chart below, at astrodienst, they started changing the computer program on a continuous basis. It was only noticeable for dates very distant in the past. ... particularly the date I produced the chart for, i.e. April 2 in the year 3 A.D. Gregorian calendar. Edgar's actual words were "He was born on the nineteenth day of March. By the Julian Calendar, it was in the year Four. From the Hebrew (or Mosaic) Calendar, it was in the year eighteen hundred and ninety-nine." reading # 587

So why am I using the year 3? Because there were two ways of reckoning what the first year was. Some said (and still do) it to be the first full year after his birth beginning on New Years Day, which to them was January 1st (as most everyone took the Church's word for it that December 25th was the correct day of birth at that time) others claim that the first year is the year He was born in regardless of how late in the year it was.
But the real trick here is knowing that in those days most all of the Roman citizenry, and the Roman officials, considered April 1st as the first day of a New Year. The gov't calendar used a fiscal year and that held that New Years Day was January 1st, I believe..or it may have been a different date in Jan., the point is that the one day all the people, in general, observed and held their New Years festivities by ...and so did all the politicians of Rome, as no one wants to be left out of a good party... was April 1st.

So because the Gregorian Calendar must add a day every new century that is divisible by 4, When Pope Gregory started his Calendar it was 1582 and at the time of the Popes' action March 19th, in the year 3 A.D., was then progressed to March 31, 3 A.D.
In the year 1600 another day was added making it April 1st and by the common Roman Julian Calendar that observed April 1st as the first day of a New Year, His birth could, from that day forward, be said to have actually occurred in the 4th year by the Julian Calendar as it was commonly observed among the peoples of Rome.

When I first began this project, in 2001, I was unaware of these facts and also ignorant of the fact that another day had to be added as of the year 2000, and that March 19th by the Julian Calendar was from then on April 2nd. It wasn't until 2003 that I became aware of these facts. In the Year 2400 the date will change to April 3rd.


Astrodienst has "adjusted'' something numerous times now since 2004. I have printed charts from as far back as 2004 and 2005 and the oldest that remains in my computer files is from November 2009. Sometime in 2012 astrodienst had tweaked the figures a little bit as to where the Sun, Merc. and Venus had added 02", the Moon 21", Mars 11" and Jupiter 01" and Uranus, Neptune and Pluto remained the same. I have a chart from July 2012 that shows all that... but it never effected anything that which had given me cause to claim it to be the natal birth chart of Yeshu'a. They had been using a program they got from JPL (Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena California) which is so highly accurate that one can calculate exactly where a satellite must be in ten years and so many months, days and right down to the moment it needs to be withing "X" amount of miles from the surface of one of Neptune's Moons. Although the creator of the program did allow a certain amount of "fudge factor " for the adjustment of some of the planets and the luminaries and as for Pluto it was given the biggest allowance and I figure that was for the reason it still hadn't been observed long enough by 1992, when the program was created (I believe that is the correct year...it could be give or take a year or two. That specific info is available on the internet if you are that interested in precise facts regarding that issue. I'm trying to expedite this process of restoring a workable and informative intro to the thread and it isn't that important to spend the half hour or so it would take to retrieve it.) The allowance Pluto was given as to adding as much as up to, or as much as less than, but no more or less than, was given as 00* 01' 59".

In the chart below you will notice that Pluto was given to be at 00* Libra 58' 52". Astrodienst claims it started using an entirely new computer ephemeris sometime in either late 2012 or in 2013, I forget exactly when, and that this new program is based on a more recent JPL computer program and, also, that Pluto is still allowed the exact same amount of adjustment.
Well, astrodienst did adjust Pluto, they added the maximum allowance of 00* 01' 59" to it's position and now list it at 01* Libra 00' 51" which messes with my explanation as it is essential that Pluto was in the 1st degree of Libra and not the 2nd as they presently have it. One might think that a planet moved a mere 00* 01 59" isn't really very much but considering how far Pluto is from the Sun and the full length of one complete orbit of Pluto around the Sun it amounts to (and I had the exact figures ...or as close as I could calculate that distance, but can't find them right at this moment... let me just say that it was in the tens of millions of miles and may have in fact been in the hundreds of millions of miles... I'll get that exact, or as close as I can possibly be to exact, figure here at a later date.) an enormous amount of miles... so much in a distance that if the Earth were moved as much toward the Sun this planet would be a ball of charcoal. Edit: July 18, 2020/ I have those figures for as to how far astrodienst effectively moved Pluto in miles when they altered its position by 00* 01' 59". Going by the est. average speed of Pluto in it s orbit, 4.743 km/s and the estimated orbit period of 247.94 years [but they also give 247.68 and one is in Julian years the other I believe is in Gregorian ...and there is a difference. Astronomers use Julian, but it is a variable from century to century. So I used the former.] That distance in miles comes to, approximately, 2,120,194.71 miles. While it isn't as much as I thought I had remembered and wouldn't turn the Earth into a lump of charcoal if moved so much towards the Sun... [For a comparison, Venus is about 68 million miles away from Earth at its closest.] it is substantial and considering that NASA used the same original program that astrodienst saw reason to change, when NASA launched its New Horizons space probe to Pluto in 2006, and that it came within 7,750 miles to Pluto, they would've been a long way off had they adjusted Pluto's positions as astrodienst has done.

I made the world aware of this chart on Dec 22, 2005 on a nationally broadcast radio program. "The Rick Barber" program which used to air on KOA A.M. out of Denver, Colorado. I was the invited guest that night and spoke for an hour about the chart. The very next convention of the I.A.U. Pluto was demoted to less than planetary status in what has to be one of the most obvious desperate, clandestine, and underhanded moves ever pulled by any group so as to ensure just enough votes to achieve their purpose. If you read an accounting of the proceedings of Pluto's demotion by the I.A.U. you can learn of the details and easily see that something was far amiss.

Why? Well there are a number of astronomers that have been making some serious coin with their explanations for the Star of Bethlehem, the astronomer Dr. Molnar comes immediately to mind. Most everyone of them attributes it to that Stellium in, when was it? 6 or 7 B.C.? I wrote Dr. Molnar and told him that the chart made no astrological sense as to a person such as Yeshu'a/Jesus was said to have been. His reply to me was that I didn't understand "Historiography".
I wrote that I understood something far more reliable than questionable 'Historiography" in that I understood the universal symbolism of Astrology.
...and least not forget that the Swiss have been providing free personal bodyguards to the Pope for centuries.
The chart demonstrates that He was born a man, a condition of the universe, but it also demonstrates how and why He became whom he did become, that is a totally spiritually evolved human being that became the next higher order of entity... as Pluto conjunct the Ascendant and the Ascendant being the 1st degree of Libra which has the Sabian Symbol representing a perfect archetype. He became One with the Christ as the Gnostic Christians will say... We are all Sons and Daughters of God and just like Yeshu'a ben David our birth chart is our Divine Blueprint...You are a Divine creation of the Universe, just as was the 'Man from Nazareth', as was Ram of India before him, as was the Buddha et al.

The Birth Chart of Yeshu'a ben David aka Jesus of Nazareth

I DON'T KNOW WHY THE IMAGES OF THE CHARTS KEEP DISAPPEARING, I'VE HAD TO FIX THIS A FEW TIMES BEFORE. IF THE IMAGES OF THE CHARTS ARE MISSING, AS I CHECK THIS THREAD OFTEN, I'LL HAVE THE IMAGES RETURNED ASAP.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE, UNDERSTANDING, AND SUPPORT.
ptv

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In Dane Rudhyar's book "An Astrological Mandala". Rudhyar goes on to explain the following. The "Cross", that is the axis, formed by the horizon and the meridian of one's birth chart, create four points, and these four points, he interprets, are the "WHAT", "WHERE-TO", "HOW" and "WHY" of one's being. I would like to add here that as for, "WHERE-TO" To', I sometimes re-interpret as either "WHAT-TO" or "WHOM-TO". Rudhyar also wrote, inferring, that an axis of perfect symmetry, i.e., 90° between all four axis points that include the four points of the Zodiac, Aries Libra, Cancer and Capricorn, all in the first degree, would have been involved in the birth chart of Yeshua of Nazareth.

Those four degrees of the Zodiac are associated with the following Sabian Symbols as described by Dane in his book thus...

Aries 1°, "A Woman Just Risen From The Sea, A Seal Is Embracing Her. Keynote: Emergence of new forms and of the potentiality of consciousness." (Keywords) "IMPULSE TO BE."

Rudhyar infered that Aries 01* would be the Ascendant found on the birth chart of Jesus/Yeshu'a. So, thus naturally, the infered Descendant is Libra 01*
[ibid.]

Libra 1° "In A Collection Of Perfect Specimens Of Many Biological Forms, A Butterfly Displays The Beauty Of Its Wings, Its Body Impaled By A Fine Dart. Keynote: The immortal archetypal reality that a perfect and dedicated life reveals."

Dane wrote the following as part of the interpretation: [ibid.]
"...the original notation of what the clairvoyant had seen indicated 'a butterfly made perfect by a dart through it', suggesting a process of perfection through sacrifice."

Dane concluded his interpretation with the following words: [ibid.]
"This is the symbolical Transfiguration at the Mount of Transfiguration, Jesus the Son of Man was impaled by the ray of the divine light, making him a son of God. It was at this very moment that he learned of the crucifixion awaiting him.Thus the merely human individual is [Rudhyars keywords] MADE SACRED becoming the pure embodiment of an archetype."

The other half of the birth chart axis, the line created by the nadir and the mid-haven, the "HOW" and "WHY" of the birth chart was proposed, by Rudhyar, to consist of the first degree of Capricorn and the first degree of Cancer. Rudhyar, in his book "An Astrological Mandala" infers that first degree of Cancer is the degree of the zodiac that is the Nadir of the birth chart of Jesus. The description for the first degree of Cancer is as follows [ibid.]:
"On A Ship, The Sailors Lower An Old Flag And Raise A New One. Keynote: A radical change of allegiance exteriorized in a symbolical act: a point of no return." [Rudhyar's keyword] "REORIENTATION"

Rudhyar was thus proposing that the HOW of Jesus' life mission would be accomplished by becoming the new symbol of allegiance.

For the mid-haven Rudhyar proposed the first degree of Capricorn [ibid.]. "An Indian Chief Claims Power From The Assembled Tribe. Keynote: The power and responsibility implied in any claim for leadership." ...and Dane finished his summary on this symbol by writing: ". It refers to the capacity latent in every individual to claim and assume AUTHORITY in a vital group-situation."

Thus Rudhyar proposed, even though he may have thought differently privately, that the axis of Jesus's birth chart would show his "WHO" to be just another life form emerging into this world [i.e. Aries 1*], His "WHERE-TO", i.e. what he was to become, the perfect form of man [i.e. Libra 1*]. The true birth chart that has been produced however shows, as Cayce and many other spiritual teachers have taught, that Jesus was born the perfect form of man, and through his life by example, he demonstrated the path to the next step in spiritual/physical evolution, a higher, more spiritually evolved life form. I also believe that when Pluto [the planet of 'Transformation"] is found exactly conjunct the ascendant, transformation [i.e. the transition from "WHO" to "WHOM-TO"] is assured somehow or, at the very least, the catalyst is brought to bear on the individual in question. As for the other half of the axis. It's apparent that Rudhyar proposed that how Jesus was to accomplish his mission, his dharma, was by becoming the new symbol or icon of allegiance represented by, the flag the sailors are raising symbolically, the first degree of Cancer. And as for the "WHY" of Rudhyar's proposed chart for Jesus it was to establish leadership over various groups of belief. [Or the various sects of Judaism, monotheism and or remnant religions that had the Sun prayers at their most ancient core.] Whereas in the true birth chart, I propose, that is Yeshu'a's, this cause and purpose is the same only the position of the two degrees, at the nadir and the mid-haven, are switched.

This is due to an understanding, that came some time after my book was published, that the first degree in the process of transformation is actually Virgo 30* and it culminates with Libra 01*
That is to say, that the Theosophists, and their Esoteric Astrology, has it partially correct. The Zodiac should be followed in the opposite direction from that as is practiced by "Traditional" Astrologers and thus the Sabian Symbols represent a process of spiritual transformation when read in that clockwise direction around a chart that begins at Virgo 30*. What the Theosophists failed to realize is that the process begins at Virgo 30* and not Aries 01* but then, in their defense,. they never adopted the Sabian Symbols as presented and interpreted by Dane Rudhyar or even those as given by Marc Edmond Jones...at least not to my knowledge. [Those of Jones and Rudhyar are essentially the same. I do know that Rudhyar noticed a few that didn't seem to fit and contacted the clairvoyant, Elsie Wheeler, to find out if his suspicions were correct in that He believed Marc to have substituted a few to fit his own preconceived idea of what they would represent and ascertain the genuine symbolism if that was true and if they were still available. He was correct, Marc had altered a few and to his joy Dane learned that Miss Wheeler had the original notations of her descriptions of the symbols in her exact words that Marc had written down. I won't go into the details of what is written about what followed between Marc and Dane or what I deduced from "reading between the lines" of that account, just let it suffice to say that Dane was eventually given permission, by Mr Jones, to alter any that Dane saw fit to so as to make them more understandable by the general public. One can obtain a set of both those as originally given by Marc and a copy of Dane's work and compare them for your self if you are that interested or have any concerns. I believe that Marc disposed of the set He altered and issued them as Elsie actually gave description of them but I'm not certain of that. However, I do know Dane's background of studies in Jungian psychology, Vedic philosophy, Zen Buddhism and music {and that is but a partial list of what all, and whom, He had studied} prior to his studies of astrology I believe Dane to have been the most preeminently qualified person alive at the time to be the person that was to truly understand, interpret, and write about the Sabian Symbols as
re-ascertained by Elsie Wheeler and present them to the world. I have compared the two and have found Rudhyar's work to be vastly superior, as to those issued by Marc Edmond Jones, for the understanding and utilization when applied to astrology.
]

It has been traditionally accepted by astrologers that this evolutionary process, represented by the 360 Sabian symbols begins with the first degree of Aries, the emerging life form, and completes the cycle of 360 stages of transformation with the 30th degree of Pisces. The 30th degree of Pisces symbol is: [ibid.] "A Majestic Rock Formation Resembling A Face Is Idealized By A Boy Who Takes It As His Ideal Of Greatness, And As He Grows Up, Begins To Look Like It." Rudhyar's Keynote on this symbol: "The power of clearly visualized ideals to mold the life of the visualizer." Rudhyar's summation on this symbol: "This is the last stage of the last scene of the great ritual play of cyclic transformations. It brings to us a realization of the power of archetypes as factors conditioning life processes. Thus we could use as a final Keyword: Archetypalization."

In Rudhyar's book on the Sabian symbols, he inferred that the first degree of Aries will be found to be the ascendant on the birth chart of Jesus. Dane was thus stating that the "WHO" of the birth chart would be an emerging life form, and the "WHERE-TO" [the first degree of Libra] would be the perfect form of man.

If one were to meditate on this process for a moment and picture an emerging biological life form [as represented by the Sabian Symbol for the first degree of Aries] becoming, through the cyclic process of completing the following 359 degrees of the Zodiac, as symbolically represented by the 30th degree of Pisces. One understands that, what is represented by, this process is one of becoming more immersed in materiality, represented by the rock face in the symbol for the last degree of Pisces.

But what actually occurred, and the actual template of being, that Jesus was given, is the opposite. His "WHO" is the perfect form of man and his "WHERE-TO" the next emerging life form. A higher life form. The next step in spiritual evolution. I believe that there is another process through the Sabian symbols that begins with the thirtieth degree of Virgo and culminates with the first degree of Libra. The symbol for, which is: [ibid.] "Totally Intent Upon Completing An Immediate Task, A Man Is Deaf To Any Allurement." Rudhyar's Keynote: "The total concentration required for reaching any spiritual goal." Rudhyar's summation: "This is the culminating step. The decision that results from a myriad of small choices. Still, a shadow of hesitation can remain. Attention may be distracted from the Now by a voice from the past glamorizing some old memory. The outer doors of perception and thought must be closed, so the soul can complete its (Dane's very significant Keywords for this degree) CONQUEST OF ILLUSION."

Thus there are two ways of proceeding through the Sabian Symbols, the zodiac, [and maybe more] one beginning with the first degree of Aries and ending with the last degree of Pisces, becoming more immersed in the material, in Maya. The other process begins with the last degree of Virgo and thus, freeing oneself from the illusion, from materiality, from Maya, 'THE ILLUSION'. As Dane hinted in numerous books and articles. "The True Path of Discipleship begins in Virgo" It is the last degree of Virgo that is the first step...the beginning of "THE CONQUEST OF ILLUSION" this chart I propose as the correct birth chart for Yeshu'a has the Ascendant conjunct the first degree of Libra, and his Moon conjunct the last degree of Virgo, Yeshu'a demonstrates that he was here as the perfect form of man, becoming the next higher evolved life form, and conquering the illusion of Maya. This is possibly also another way of understanding and putting into context his statement. " I am the first and the last." The first degree of the process, i.e. Virgo 30*, [The Conquest of Illusion {Maya}], and the last degree of the process, i.e. Libra 01* [the Perfect Form {or Archetype} Of Man].

Using what is known as the 'day formula' for the Part of Fortune, as my tried and true and trusted Clairvoyant friend, Clarisse Conner, says is the only correct formula for the Part of Fortune regardless of the time of day. Thus the Part of Fortune derived from this chart is at 18° Pisces 16' 08", that is to say in the 19th degree of Pisces. The symbol for which is [ibid.] "A Master Instructs His Disciple". What could be more appropriate of the 360 symbols that are to be found in the Zodiac, for the one to represent additionally 'HOW' The Master was to best achieve his mission or dharma?

The 12th House cusp, as my friend Suryakant's chart had shown me, represents the answer to the Worlds' problems as that person, whose chart it is, will see it and communicate it to the world. The 12th House cusp for this chart is 3° Virgo, 14 minutes, the fourth degree of Virgo, the symbol for which is [ibid.] "Black and White Children Play Together Happily". Rudhyar's Keyword for this symbol is "Brotherhood". Again, of the entire 360 symbols, none could be more appropriate for what Yeshu'a's consistent answer was in reference to the Worlds' problems.

The Part of Fortune derived from this chart (always use the diurnal formula...night births make no difference.) is at
18* Pisces 16' 07"... i.e. the 19th degree of Pisces. By Sabian Symbol we find what symbolically must be "put into play" in order to assure the most fortuitous circumstances in order to achieve the journey from "WHO" (the Asc.) to "WHERE-TO" (the Desc.)...to achieve that which is given symbolically as the Part of Destiny.

From Dane Rudhyar we get the answer (ibid.)

"PISCES 19°: A MASTER INSTRUCTING HIS DISCIPLE.
KEYNOTE:
The transfer of power and knowledge which keeps the original spiritual and creative Impulse of the cycle active and undeviated.

The Hindu ideal of the sacred relationship between guru and chela (disciple) has of late become familiar to a vast number of young and not-so-young people. The doctrine of 'the Apostolic succession' in the Roman Catholic Church has a similar significance. The Power and archetypal knowledge released 'in the beginning' of any cycle (or at 'Creation') must be perpetuated until the very Last Day — the Omega state of which Teilhard de Chardin glowingly speaks. This Power is the 'self' of the cyclic manifestation, the unchanging Tone (AUM) of all existences within this cycle. It can be transmitted from master to disciple at the latter's 'Initiation'. It must be so transmitted for when the line of transmission (in Sanskrit, guruampara) is discontinued, the cyclic process begins to collapse in futility and spiritual darkness.

This fourth stage symbol gives us a clue to the supreme technique necessary for the continuation of all manifestations of power and spiritual understanding. The transmission is from person to person; it follows a general, unchanging pattern, yet it operates in terms of particular and individual circumstances. Keyword:
INVESTITURE."


Perfect...wouldn't you say?

The cusp of ones natal 12th House symbolically represents what your answer is to the greatest problem that world society faces as a whole... this natal chart has the 4th deg. of Virgo at that cusp.
(ibid.)

"VIRGO 4°: BLACK AND WHITE CHILDREN PLAY TOGETHER HAPPILY.
KEYNOTE:
The overcoming of socio-cultural prejudices.

Freedom from all the forms, biases and idiosyncrasies of the particular culture and class in which one has been born and educated is a sine qua non of the consciousness truly 'on the Path', The ideal of universal brotherhood underlies all great spiritual teachings, for they all are like branches of the One Tree, Man, in his divine state. This does not mean there are no racial differences, but rather that these differences have a functional value in terms of the whole organism of Man — and of the planet Earth.

At this fourth stage the basic technique which applies to all truly spiritual progress is clearly stated. Every human being should be seen, approached and warmly met as a 'child of God', or in less religious terms as an exemplar of Man. Such a status gives to every social and interpersonal group the character of a
BROTHERHOOD."


Just absolutely awesome...in my humble opinion...

I wish to include another one of the Astrological Parts derived from this chart in this first post and hopefully it'll fit the limit on text per post.

The Part of Catastrophe is derived from the Formula Asc. + Uranus - Sun. In this chart we find that to be at 27* Virgo 03' 13". What has been discovered (or revealed as actually it was never lost... now was it?) that the "Catastrophe" revealed by the Sabian Symbol found for the degree of the Zodiac it is in is a necessary thing in ones life that will occur at some point. The advantage here in knowing what it is early enough in ones life is that "forewarned is forearmed". By knowing about it ahead of time one is given the opportunity to mitigate the damage... possibly avoid any real damage all together.

By Dane's wonderful tome we find that to be (ibid.)

"VIRGO 28°: A BALDHEADED MAN WHO HAS SEIZED POWER.
KEYNOTE:
The sheer power of personality in times that call for decision.

Whether at the religious or at the socio-political and cultural level there comes a time when obsolescent patterns of order and cultural refinement have to be radically and relentlessly challenged. Catabolic personages emerge to seize power and dictate decisions that alter the structures of society; or within an individual life, an intense urge for cathartic changes mobilizes the will, and traumatic decisions are made. At such times, the issue has to be met and, ruthless as the power may appear, it must be accepted.

At this third stage of the thirty-sixth sequence we face the un-postponable necessity for decision and transformation. Existence is motion. No static formation, however beautiful and inspiring, can remain long unchallenged. Everything bows to
THE POWER OF THE WILL — divine, executively human, or Satanic."


As Dane so brilliantly interpreted (or was divinely guided...?) and wrote..."the un-postponable necessity for decision and transformation." it seems that there wasn't much opportunity to mitigate much for Yeshu'a's sake. He may have known just how very much it was a necessity and un-postponable and, possibly, Judas knew of this too.
It has been said by some that Judas was the most knowledgeable of all the disciples and that He understood why He had to "betray" Yeshu'a to the authorities.

One very likely reason, I believe given their past history of the religious and political "authorities" in that area from the time of Moses to the days of Yeshu'a, is likely that the Romans threatened to kill every male Jew between certain ages in a hundred, or so, mile radius in order to ensure that they put a stop to his growing ministry. If you'll recall the story of Spartacus...when it came time for Spartacus to give himself up...everyone was suddenly Spartacus.

I have a theory that Judas was not an outsider, as most will have us believe, but in fact was an Essene and was Mary's younger brother... it is said that Jesus/Yeshu'a and Judas looked so much alike that at times even the disciples couldn't tell them apart.
That Judas had been an Essene would give great cause to the legend that He understood the teachings of Yeshu'a far better than any of the other disciples. I think He was part of the entourage in order to "keep an eye on him" for Mary's sake.

At this point I would like to discuss matrices.

The six pointed star, or Magen David is made up of two interlaced equilateral triangles. According to Rudhyar, "the trine always presents a challenge to have a vision of what is possible.' He also said, it allows one to be "imbued with a sense of purpose." The six pointed matrix allows one to take that vision, and sense of purpose, and use it with "adequate management and organizational genius."

Dane Rudhyar has, to my knowledge, at least implied that the Magen David was prophesied or expected to appear in the birth chart of the Messiah. This is what I was looking for when I first started using astrological web sites and their computer ephemerices. A Rabbi, the late Dr. Joel Dobin, also infers it in his book "Kabbalistic Astrology" and I have come across other such inferrences, from other Rabbis, over the years

I found no possible six-point matrix for the date Edgar Cayce gave as the true birth time. I did find however, an incomplete Grand Septile matrix on this chart that I propose is the correct one for Jesus. And this matrix, in fact, involves every other point of a Grand Septile matrix. Starting with the Ascendant and traveling in either direction, [i.e. clockwise or counter-clockwise], around the chart the septile points would be every 51.428571°. An irrational number, which interestingly enough, is the exact angle of the side of the Great Pyramid. Very little is known about the septile and much less the Grand Septile matrix. To my knowledge, the only thing Rudhyar ever really commented about on this aspect is that, according to ancient lore, it is an aspect of fatality. Now I propose using the ascendant as the basis or the starting point of this matrix. Because Pluto is a little past the ascendant and the moon is just before the ascendant. There is a much larger allowable orb than the 2° that is normally allowed to either side for this aspect. An allowance of an extra 45 minutes of a degree to either side is what I estimate. Thus, these points, from [1]; Pluto clockwise around the chart would be at [2] nine + degrees Leo; [3] just about exactly 18° Gemini; [4] 26 + degrees Aries; [5] between 5 and 6° Pisces; [6] approximately 14° Capricorn and [7] just a little more than 22° Scorpio.

As to the construct of the incomplete Grand Septile matrix on this chart, you'll find that after the conjunction of Pluto and the Moon on the Ascendant that there is to be found Mars at 18° 56 minutes Gemini on one of the other seven points. Two of the other points are occupied by Venus at 6° 47 minutes Pisces and Neptune at 24° 26 minutes Scorpio. The missing points on the septile matrix in the birth chart of Jesus, those at Leo, Aries and Capricorn are found to have been completed by progression on the Monday after, what was the first Easter Sunday. If my proposed birth time for Jesus is correct, then by all given history. The first Easter Sunday would have been April 15 in the year 35 AD by the Gregorian calendar. From the Astrodienst computer we find these missing points completed at approximately 2:00 P.M. the next day, Monday, following. At that time and date the Sun was in the 26th degree of Aries, the Moon in the 14th degree of Capricorn, and Saturn and Jupiter, conjunct, at a little more than 12° Leo.

Below is the chart for...
The Day after the Sunday of the Crucifixion... the completion of the Septile matrix




The time of day given in the above chart is my arbitrary choice.... the exact time was decisive according to Gods' Will



Lots more to continue with in the posts ahead (although some of the originals were deleted some years ago...as I was in the late planning stage of leaving this forum forever and felt it best to take certain threads with me rather than leave them behind to be trashed by trolls.) ptv

_______________
You are a Divine creation of the Universe!
There are so many dates posed for Jesus birth that I dont think we can take any for Gospel. However he was channelled by a respected medium and said he was born November 4, 2BC. The image of him certainly looks Scorpionic that was seen esoterically... I have given him Scorpio rising also and this gives him planets in the 12th as well as the 1st and an Aries Moon which fits with his known temper and his conflicts with his mother...I am looking at him as a human being who was highly evolved..Not the son of God....He also stated the Bible is about 5% true..... Jesus.jpg
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

I attach the chart of Jesus as he was channelled by a well known medium with the birthdate as on the chart. I gave him a Scorpio ascendant as well and that gives him planets in the 12th as well as the 1st. . Also the Aries Moon which fits his known temper...and conflicts with his mother.. He looks Scorpion from the image painted from information given esoterically.

There are so many dates posed for his birth that really we cant take any for Gospel.

He also stated the Bible is about 5% true and he never said he was the son of God but of Man. I am looking at him as a highly evolved human being. I dont call myself a "Christian" but he has been my friend since childhood as with many many others. I knew he had gold brown hair and olive skin that was described by the medium... Quite tall and well built. THe medium who was channelling him said he was attractive and that his energy was so full of love she had to ask him to stand back as it was overwhelming. She was was visibly moved. He was humourous and just quite normal.
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire19 View Post
I attach the chart of Jesus as he was channelled by a well known medium with the birthdate as on the chart. I gave him a Scorpio ascendant as well and that gives him planets in the 12th as well as the 1st. . Also the Aries Moon which fits his known temper...and conflicts with his mother.. He looks Scorpion from the image painted from information given esoterically.

There are so many dates posed for his birth that really we cant take any for Gospel.

He also stated the Bible is about 5% true and he never said he was the son of God but of Man. I am looking at him as a highly evolved human being. I dont call myself a "Christian" but he has been my friend since childhood as with many many others. I knew he had gold brown hair and olive skin that was described by the medium... Quite tall and well built. THe medium who was channelling him said he was attractive and that his energy was so full of love she had to ask him to stand back as it was overwhelming. She was was visibly moved. He was humourous and just quite normal.
Interesting. You didn't give the name of the medium, although you do state that they are "well known".
...and, once again, I must point out that this is the "Degree Symbolism" sub-forum, and you given nothing supportive in that regard.

thanks for participating anyways, and if this were a game show at this point I would say, "Thanks for playing anyways, we have some lovely parting gifts for you"

... but it's not and I don't have any gifts for you other than the gift of knowledge already provided here-in.

You've participated in this thread for over a decade now, if I'm not mistaken? I would have to think that you'd have something to say about degree symbolism by now.

When you do, I will have a lovely parting gift for you... a copy of the revised edition of my book, soon to hit the presses.

Would you like it autographed?
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

I would like to point out, again, that when Pope John Paul II died on April 2, 2005 ABC news journalist, Charlie Gibbons, said on the air, that day, that He was certain that Pope John Paul II desperately clung to life so as to die on that very day and that he did recall someone from the Vatican once telling him that Jesus had been born on that day.

Yeah, there's lots of dates that have been given... but there is only one that is the true date.

Mediums channeling Yeshu'a/Jesus...my, my.
Why would one that has obtained ever lasting life have need of a channel?
Sylvia Browne, alleged clairvoyant, was well known, but I wouldn't consider her to be genuine, other than a genuine fraud.

Just like anything that is to be considered to be legitimate, there has to be demonstrable proof. If a medium is to be taken to be genuine then give us a name and let us see their record... at least give the name, the record can be found, providing that.

I know two very, very, good "mediums"...and that have proven themselves to be genuinely mediumistic, beyond reproach, and neither one claims to be able to contact Yeshu'a/Jesus.

There is at least one reading in which Yeshu'a/Jesus spoke through Edgar Cayce, and I believe there is a second...but I haven't been able to find that second reading again... I'm still looking for it.

But, I've really no need to check any such claim...for what I have provided is "the real deal". It's just out of courtesy to those that still haven't studied all there is to be learned from the date and chart I've given.

Do you think that I've given all, here in this thread, that I know, that I have learned, from the study of this chart?

If you do... well...
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Hello What an intriguing thread. I’m glad that there is an awareness that Jesus Christ was not born in the winter but rather around spring or summer 💕 That would either make him an Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, or Leo for his natal sun. As for his rising, moon, venus, mars, mercury and so on is surely a mystery. Again, so happy to come across such a thread. I would like to leave this verse from the holy scripture ☺️


Quote:
Luke 2:7-8
King James Version
7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

[QUOTE=piercethevale;1064857]This was quite the find in a book that I've had for quite some time but have yet to read thoroughly from cover to cover.

From the book "Astrology and the Edgar Cayce Readings" by Margaret Gammon, [ARE Press, Virginia Beach, Virginia, copyright 1967 by Edgar Cayce Foundation] the following which was one of the readings given after Pluto had been discovered and so named [prior to that references to Pluto were given as the planet "Septimus" [Latin for "Seventh"] and sometimes as Vulcan. Reading 825-8 "gave the categorical statement that Pluto and the legendary 'Vulcan' were one and the same"
I find it very interesting that counting outward from the Sun, beginning with Earth, Pluto is the sixth planet unless one accounts the asteroids as having been a planet at one time. If Cayce meant to include the Earth in the count then why did He omit Mercury and Venus and not call Pluto "Nona", as that is Latin for ninth?

But I've digressed here from what I found to be "the Find" this evening in Gammon's book.
From page 46, the following, Italics and bracketed words are that of the authors':

Quote:
The most significant statement so far encountered in the readings comes with this description of Pluto's influence in 1100-27:

Q. Just what are the effects of Pluto, in conjunction with ones' ascendant?

A. This, as we find, is entirely amiss [different] from what we might call a physical expression; but, as we find indicated, these [influences] are a development that is occurring in the universe, or environs about the earth-Pluto. Not, as some have indicated, that it is gradually being dissipated. It is gradually growing, and thus is one of those influences that are to be a demonstrative activity in the future affairs or developments of man, towards the spiritual-minded influence, or those influences outside of himself.
These [individuals] in the present, as might be said, are merely the [ones] becoming aware of same. Rather, within the next hundred to two hundred years there may be a great deal of influence [of Pluto] upon the ascendancy of man; for it's closest of those to the activities of the earth, to be sure, and it is a developing influence, not one already established.
[Unquote.]

It seems to me that Cayce may have even been hinting that Yeshu'a/Jesus had been born with a Pluto Ascendant conjunction. As it has been at least 76 years, and maybe as much as 85 or more, since this reading was given we are just about to enter that period given as "within the next hundred to two hundred years"

Cayce also gave what the essential development for the soul lay in the "sojourns" among the various spheres, or planets, in the in between earthly incarnations.
"As in Mercury pertaining of Mind.
In Mars of Madness.
In Earth as of Flesh.
In Venus as Love
In Jupiter as Strength
In Saturn as the beginning of earthly woes, that to which all insufficient matter is cast for the beginning.
In that of Uranus as of the Psychic.
In that of Neptune as the Mystic.
In Septimus [Pluto] as of Consciousness
In Arcturus as of the developing." [reading 900-10]

[Arcturus was given in a few readings as being the central Sun/Star around which our own Sun orbited and that through which all souls must pass ... although I can't remember at this time if it was between every incarnation or upon graduating from this Solar system entirely?]

As to the above, the important thing to realize is that Cayce pointed to Pluto being that which gives the development of consciousness, and in that the Christ [Krishna] consciousness is the ideal, then it certainly stands to reason that one born for the role Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth was given as his fate would be one born with Pluto conjunct the Ascendant, and that it also would occur in the first degree of Libra.
Interesting, right between the last degree of Virgo and first degree of Libra is the star Arcturus in the Bootes constellation, also it is known for the Bootes void which is a patch of the universe without any stars, galaxies, nebulas or any galactic matter...like a hole in a sheet, however the Bootes void is not a black hole and our Milky Way's Galactic center which has one is in the last degree of Scorpio and first degree of Sagittarius or within the parazodiac of Ophiuchus.

Virgo=birth and Libra=balance, then you have the esoteric constellation Draco is said to have astrological representation in 0' Libra, it is however located in the 80-90 N latitude of the evening sky circling Ursa Minor with the North Star Polaris. The symbolism of Jesus Christ's nativity is the Virgo, Libra, Draco and Polaris=a baby brings new change with great powers of a future universe king. And there's an exact 60 degrees of longitude from 0' Libra and 0' Sagittarius.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

[QUOTE=CapAquaPis;1067041]
Quote:
Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
This was quite the find in a book that I've had for quite some time but have yet to read thoroughly from cover to cover.

From the book "Astrology and the Edgar Cayce Readings" by Margaret Gammon, [ARE Press, Virginia Beach, Virginia, copyright 1967 by Edgar Cayce Foundation] the following which was one of the readings given after Pluto had been discovered and so named [prior to that references to Pluto were given as the planet "Septimus" [Latin for "Seventh"] and sometimes as Vulcan. Reading 825-8 "gave the categorical statement that Pluto and the legendary 'Vulcan' were one and the same"
I find it very interesting that counting outward from the Sun, beginning with Earth, Pluto is the sixth planet unless one accounts the asteroids as having been a planet at one time. If Cayce meant to include the Earth in the count then why did He omit Mercury and Venus and not call Pluto "Nona", as that is Latin for ninth?

But I've digressed here from what I found to be "the Find" this evening in Gammon's book.
From page 46, the following, Italics and bracketed words are that of the authors':



Interesting, right between the last degree of Virgo and first degree of Libra is the star Arcturus in the Bootes constellation, also it is known for the Bootes void which is a patch of the universe without any stars, galaxies, nebulas or any galactic matter...like a hole in a sheet, however the Bootes void is not a black hole and our Milky Way's Galactic center which has one is in the last degree of Scorpio and first degree of Sagittarius or within the parazodiac of Ophiuchus.

Virgo=birth and Libra=balance, then you have the esoteric constellation Draco is said to have astrological representation in 0' Libra, it is however located in the 80-90 N latitude of the evening sky circling Ursa Minor with the North Star Polaris. The symbolism of Jesus Christ's nativity is the Virgo, Libra, Draco and Polaris=a baby brings new change with great powers of a future universe king. And there's an exact 60 degrees of longitude from 0' Libra and 0' Sagittarius.
Edgar said, in a reading, that all souls must pass through Arcturus between incarnations [at least that's how I remember it... I have no idea in which reading that info was given as I read it when I was in my late teens or early 20's.
I had never cast a chart for the d.o.b. I have for the Nazarene as to see where Arcturus was when He was born...but to be totally honest, ever since astrodienst altered the data for that date I don't put much trust in anything I didn't already have the results for [They will eventually have a large mass of egg on their collective faces when it is eventually demonstrated that Pluto was right where they said it was in November 7th, 2004, when I saw the chart for the first time. ...and the Vatican may even go public with the information that the date Edgar gave is correct. As I have heard from more than one very reputable clairvoyant that the present Pope will be the last, then we might not have to wait for very much longer?]
I did cast a chart for Yeshu'a to see where Arcturus was on that date and then cast an Arcturus location chart for my own birthdate and what I came up with is ...or should be...exactly how much the Sidereal precession traveled between the time of His birth and mine. After I adjusted everything in my natal chart to where it would have been had I also been born April 2, 3 A.D. [or C.E. for those that prefer] what I discovered, [so far] has been rather interesting. I also would have been an Aries Sun, Libra Asc.
According to astrodienst at the time of Yeshu'a's birth Arcturus was at 26* Virgo 28' 48" and when I was born it was at 23* Libra 35' 31". That's a distance of 27* 06' 43" of Sidereal precession movement in the 1950 years 1 month and 4 days between the time He was born and my own birth.]

My natal Mercury, at 27* Aries 57' 02" would have been at Aries 00* 50' 19" and conj. His Desc. My natal Venus at 15* Aries 05' 53" would have been at 17* Pisces 59' 10",ans thus a Piscean Venus like that of the Nazarene and almost in the exact same degree as his Part of Fortune, and my natal Uranus at 15* Cancer 18' 57" would have been at 18* Gemini 55' 33" and conj. Yehu'a's own natal Mars, his Part of Ware or Rage, Part of Ideal Love, and His Part of Play [Asc. + Venus - Mars, a Part that I think deserves a better title... just haven't taken the time to study the Part, yet.] My natal Saturn at 22* Libra 17' 17" would have been at 26* Virgo 10' 34" and conj Arcturus, [also,my natal Neptune at 25* Virgo 46' 02", as Saturn and Neptune were but 00* 24' 32" from an exact conjunction at the time of my birth.] My S. Node at 06* Leo 54' 10" would have been at 09* Cancer 47' 27" at His time of birth, and His natal Saturn was at 08* Cancer 26' 08"

When one considers that all my Hyleg like Parts [Asc. + natal Moon - pre natal and post natal, New and Full Moons] using the opposing Hyleg Moon produces the exact same Sign and degree. [For one example: my Asc. + natal Moon - pre natal New Moon = 17* Virgo 34' 31". Yeshu'a's Asc. + natal Moon - post natal Full Moon = 17* Virgo 25' 31".} I seems apparent that I was given a very similar astrological make-up in order to more understand the man, possibly to emulate Him to some degree?

Some years ago I noticed a strange similarity between my natal chart and that of Mohandas Gandhi and I posted a thread in the Jotish Astrologers forum asking for opinions as for the reason of my belief that I had been an native of India in my previous life and possibly knew Mohandas. The consensus was "Yes" and "Yes, most intimately, in fact".
I then asked my friend, spiritual confidante , and gifted clairvoyant, Clarisse Conner to "look into the past" and tell me what she saw of the matter and She said that I knew Him quite well and that we had a mutual friend between us, a woman. [In fact, I have since learned that I've had the most incarnations in that region of, present day, India, Pakistan, and any of the lands that were of the Vedic persuasion. In one very distant lifetime I was a ruler of some potion of that land. about 46 years ago I was given a mantra to use the next time I meditated and what that produced [and there was no pre-suggestion, no clue whatsoever, as to what to expect when I did] and what I saw was my own soul revealing itself to me in the for of the archetype that my soul worships and adores... and that is Sri Rama.]

Now, I have reason to suspect that Mohandas may have been one of Yeshu'a's disciples, reincarnate... or at the very least, someone that had been alive in that time also and knew the man quite well, or was a great admirer.

HARIBOL
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Once again it's Christmas Eve, and regardless of when i, you, or anyone else believe his birth date to have been otherwise, it is the time of year that we have traditionally honored that birth for over a millennia.
I wish all you Christians a merry Christmas.

Peace On Earth, Goodwill To All Of Humankind.
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