3 Grand Trines in Earth Signs...Brief Interpretation Please...

alex premium

Active member
Hi, I've got this 3 Grand Trines: Mars, Venus, Moon and Sun, Neptune, Ascendant and same with Chiron instead of Asc....what do they represent and what are their roles in my life? Also I'm currently studying Computer Engg 2nd year and thinking of going abroad for job after I complete my degree...How does it look in the charts? Thanks...
 

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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Hi, I've got this 3 Grand Trines: Mars, Venus, Moon and Sun, Neptune, Ascendant and same with Chiron instead of Asc....what do they represent and what are their roles in my life? Also I'm currently studying Computer Engg 2nd year and thinking of going abroad for job after I complete my degree...How does it look in the charts? Thanks...
A planet in aspect to the Ascendant may form a trine

BUT

when two planets are in aspect to the ascendant,
the ascendant itself cannot form part of a 'Grand Trine'
because Ascendant is not a planet
and therefore Ascendant cannot itself 'Trine' any planet
:smile:
 

AstroLogical

Well-known member
A planet in aspect to the Ascendant may form a trine

BUT

when two planets are in aspect to the ascendant,
the ascendant itself cannot form part of a 'Grand Trine'
because Ascendant is not a planet
and therefore Ascendant cannot itself 'Trine' any planet
:smile:
_________________________________________________
JUPITERASC

I know I may seem argumentative and I don't intend to be, however, I don't understand your statement and have never heard such before. And who said so in the first place?

The ascendant is a critical part of a chart—not the most critical part—but the "persona" as the portal through which the inner universe of an individual "meets" the outer world of our shared physical universe, the ascendant is in many ways equal to a planet; arguably equal to the Sun or Moon. Perhaps the discrepancy lies in a different perspective of the importance of the ascendant... I dunno

But a chart with two planets trine one another and both trine the ascendant, forms an equilateral triangle (a grand trine) with the noted fact that the ascendant is a point not a planet. Until I understand a good reason why not, it is a grand trine from my standpoint of analysis. If the exact birth time is vague or unknown, this certainly diminishes the significance of the ascendant in regard to any aspect, trine, square or otherwise. Without doubt that would have to be weighed appropriately. But please do enlighten me as to how such a configuration is not a grand trine or is this just semantics?

If "A rose by any other name is a rose." then 120˚ X 3 is a grand trine.

I thirst for greater understanding. Please explain.
A*L
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
_________________________________________________
JUPITERASC

I know I may seem argumentative and I don't intend to be, however, I don't understand your statement and have never heard such before. And who said so in the first place?

The ascendant is a critical part of a chart—not the most critical part—but the "persona" as the portal through which the inner universe of an individual "meets" the outer world of our shared physical universe, the ascendant is in many ways equal to a planet; arguably equal to the Sun or Moon. Perhaps the discrepancy lies in a different perspective of the importance of the ascendant... I dunno

But a chart with two planets trine one another and both trine the ascendant, forms an equilateral triangle (a grand trine) with the noted fact that the ascendant is a point not a planet. Until I understand a good reason why not, it is a grand trine from my standpoint of analysis. If the exact birth time is vague or unknown, this certainly diminishes the significance of the ascendant in regard to any aspect, trine, square or otherwise. Without doubt that would have to be weighed appropriately. But please do enlighten me as to how such a configuration is not a grand trine or is this just semantics?

If "A rose by any other name is a rose." then 120˚ X 3 is a grand trine.

I thirst for greater understanding. Please explain.
A*L
Hi Astrological JMO your comment is reasonable and not argumentative at all.
Here's a definition from a well-known website
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects2.html :smile:

GRAND TRINE:

aspgt.gif
Three planets are connected by three trines to form a triangle, the Grand Trine, around which planetary influences circulate with ease.

This brings a wealth of natural talent indicated by the signs and houses containing the planets, but may require tense aspects to provide the motivation for its expression.

When the Grand Trine is in:

Fire Signs, talents lie in enthusiasm, and the search for new possibilities.

Earth Signs, talents lie in practical work and experience.

Air Signs, talents lie in intellectual work and the communication of ideas.

Water Signs, talents are rooted in sympathy, compassion and intuition.
 

AstroLogical

Well-known member
JUPITERASC

Well, thank you for the information, the link and for not misreading my direct questioning of the idea that "the ascendant can not be considered part of a grand trine."

I read, I followed links and I read some more but I did not see any reference to the ascendant NOT being part of a grand trine. The fact that the article says "planets" and does not include the word "ascendant" does not mean the ascendant should be excluded—in my way of thinking anyway. One may read into the omission of the word "ascendant" as, it is not a part of a grand trine but I could not find that intent explicitly stated.

I am well aware of my propensity to look right at something and not see it. That's why I look left and right numerous times when I pull out onto a street when I'm driving. I don't trust what "I think I see." So, perhaps I missed the direct reference you are referring to. Once again, enlighten me, please.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
JUPITERASC

Well, thank you for the information, the link and for not misreading my direct questioning of the idea that "the ascendant can not be considered part of a grand trine."

I read, I followed links and I read some more but I did not see any reference to the ascendant NOT being part of a grand trine. The fact that the article says "planets" and does not include the word "ascendant" does not mean the ascendant should be excluded—in my way of thinking anyway. One may read into the omission of the word "ascendant" as, it is not a part of a grand trine but I could not find that intent explicitly stated.

I am well aware of my propensity to look right at something and not see it. That's why I look left and right numerous times when I pull out onto a street when I'm driving. I don't trust what "I think I see." So, perhaps I missed the direct reference you are referring to. Once again, enlighten me, please.
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects2.html
I have cited a source for the information I posted, so alternatively then do enlighten me by citing your sources for the contrary opinion :smile:
 

AstroLogical

Well-known member
JUPITERASC

Well, I'd rather not first answer a question with a question but in an effort to find common ground, do you regard the ascendant as a highly significant point in a chart—whether or not it has physical mass?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
JUPITERASC

Well, I'd rather not first answer a question with a question but in an effort to find common ground, do you regard the ascendant as a highly significant point in a chart—whether or not it has physical mass?
We can definitely agree that the ascendant determines the house location of natal planets as well as location of Part of Fortune for example :smile:
 

AstroLogical

Well-known member
Okay Good. We have a start and I don't think we are far apart.

So, to jump back one to answer your previous question.

Math is my answer and with it I'd like to consider a bit of cosmic logic.

I did not write a stack of books or publications so it may be that my opinion is unsupported and perhaps untested. Yet in 40 years of chewing on this I believe very strongly that if we accept the ascendant as the personality, the body and the mask of our soul being as it exists in this world as a physical form, (which is a commonly shared perspective in astrological circles) then we must consider that ascendant point as a portal or gateway where the inner world of an individual (as represented by the entire chart and planetary positions) meets the outer physical world.

I can almost imagine a universe complete within each of us in terms of our thoughts, dreams memories, experiences, ideas etc. All that comes to the surface and meets this world we share through the persona, the mask of personality. The ascendant is THE critical symbolic point where the young incarnate's personality is shaped by conditioning. Eventually, as character is formed and a unique personality emerges, the individual contributes through that personality a flow of information back into the world. The exchange becomes a revolving door. We take info in from our world, process it (in accord with our natal planetary composition, etc.) and then inject it back out through the persona into the world... kind of like breathing. And this "point" or intersection is the Ascendant.

So how can we consider the ascendant any less then a planet? It is the symbol that represents our connection to this physical universe.

So, without going down that rabbit hole any further—in summary—the ascendant is so significant it must be weighed on equal terms as a planet. Therefore, a trine from a planet to the ascendant is as significant as a trine between two planets. If that is true then logic would suggest... the definition of a grand trine can and should include the ascendant on equal footing as a planet.

IMHO - of course :wink:
A*L
 

AstroLogical

Well-known member
I have to apologize to Alex Premium. We sort of drifted off the prime question and digressed into "theory." Alex, I'll take some time later to run your stats into my own software, which I am more familiar with, then offer my take on your question. Sorry for the delay.
A*L
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Okay Good. We have a start and I don't think we are far apart.

So, to jump back one to answer your previous question.

Math is my answer and with it I'd like to consider a bit of cosmic logic.

I did not write a stack of books or publications so it may be that my opinion is unsupported and perhaps untested.

Yet in 40 years of chewing on this
.
..

dr. farr used Placidus Houses for at least thirty years AND THEN SWITCHED to Whole Signs
Change is possible, even after decades
:smile:
Cusps:

Today (and for the past thousand years or so) we define cusps as "borders" (coasts), but that is not the original meaning of the word "cusp": it means "point" such as cuspal teeth (bicuspids) and the point of a sword-so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something, and in astrology originally the "cusp" of the house meant its "point"; now, when quadrant systems were developed, this "point" of the house came to mean its "beginning", which later came to mean its "border", ie, the "border" between one house and the other. And later astrology also began using these "borders" (cusps) for various prognostic applications (Charles Carter came to believe that, for timing of events, the "cusps" of the Campanus house system gave the best results, among the various quadrant house systems)

But now notice this: in whole sign the cusps are NOT the 0 degree "borders" of sign/houses at all, and never were so regarded! In whole sign, the "cusp" retained its original meaning, not as a "border" but rather as A POINT-and that POINT (cusp) for EACH house, was the sensitive point of that house, viz, the sensitive point in whole sign houses-each house-that is the "cusp" of each house-is a direct projection from the ascending degree.
Example:
-the ascending degree of a chart is 18 Taurus: what are the house cusps (sensitive points, original meaning of the word "cusp") in the whole sign houses of this chart?
Cusp of 1st house = 18 Taurus
Cusp of 2nd house = 18 Gemini
Cusp of 3rd house = 18 Cancer
Cusp of 4th house = 18 Leo
Cusp of 5th house = 18 Virgo
Cusp of 6th house = 18 Libra
Cusp of 7th house = 18 Scorpio
Cusp of 8th house = 18 Sagittarius
Cusp of 9th house = 18 Capricorn
Cusp of 10th house = 18 Aquarius
Cusp of 11th house = 18 Pisces
Cusp of 12th house = 18 Aries

Now it is these "cusps" (sensitive degrees, original meaning of the word "cusp" as a "point") that are (and were) used for progressions, timing of events, etc, and the fact is that they work for these purposes, quite well (in expert hands)
Whole sign does not use the BORDERS between houses (always 0 degree of any sign) for anything, but it DOES use "cusps" (points in the house, projected from the exact ascending degree) for timing (and other) delineative purposes.

Whole sign suddenly vanished (both in the West and in Vedic astrology) during the same period of time-ie, late 8th to early 9th century-this sudden disappearance suggests a sudden turn in astrological thinking and practices, rather than a gradual supplanting of a less effective traditional method (whole sign) by a new and more effective method (rheotrius/alchabitius in the West, and the closely related to whole sign Equal house, in Vedic astrology)

I quite agree with Waybread in the statement, "so what?" (if old time astrologers did or didn't do something) For me, there is only 1 reason I switched to whole sign-it worked better (FOR ME) I could care less if it were the oldest house system (which it is) or whether it was invented by Badda Bing at Barney's Beanery in Bayonne, 10 years ago: only things I consider are:
-does it seem to make sense?
-does it "taste good" to me (ie, does it "feel right" to me)
-and, if yes to the above, does it work (producing delineations and predicitions) better than what I have previously been doing?
Well, whole sign did all that, for me, so I switched; but I am not going to try to convince anyone of anything about it, except for beginners-to you who might just be starting out, I would say: try whole sign first, and see how well it might work for you...


I believe very strongly that if we accept the ascendant as the personality, the body and the mask of our soul being as it exists in this world as a physical form, (which is a commonly shared perspective in astrological circles) then we must consider that ascendant point as a portal or gateway where the inner world of an individual (as represented by the entire chart and planetary positions) meets the outer physical world.

I can almost imagine a universe complete within each of us in terms of our thoughts, dreams memories, experiences, ideas etc. All that comes to the surface and meets this world we share through the persona, the mask of personality. The ascendant is THE critical symbolic point where the young incarnate's personality is shaped by conditioning. Eventually, as character is formed and a unique personality emerges, the individual contributes through that personality a flow of information back into the world. The exchange becomes a revolving door. We take info in from our world, process it (in accord with our natal planetary composition, etc.) and then inject it back out through the persona into the world... kind of like breathing. And this "point" or intersection is the Ascendant.

So how can we consider the ascendant any less then a planet?

Easily :smile:

By contrasting the ascendant with a planet. For example, planet Earth is a planet, whereas the ascendant is a symbolic mathematical calculation related to planet Earth's revolving on its own axis

It is the symbol that represents our connection to this physical universe. So, without going down that rabbit hole any further—in summary—the ascendant is so significant it must be weighed on equal terms as a planet. Therefore, a trine from a planet to the ascendant is as significant as a trine between two planets. If that is true then logic would suggest... the definition of a grand trine can and should include the ascendant on equal footing as a planet.

IMHO - of course :wink:
A*L
 

AstroLogical

Well-known member
Sorry, I get lost in the mountain of quotes. I'm having a difficult time picking out your point.

I don't believe I ever used the word Houses or even House systems in our discussion. I think you introduced the word Houses. I am not talking about "Houses" or house Systems. I am discussing the Ascendant as a point that represents the personality, the mask of a physical body as the vehicle of the soul. Is it a point? yes. Does it have physical mass? no. Is the Ascendant symbolic of the beginning of our geocentric incarnation? I believe so, unless you or someone can make a better case for a symbolic icon that represents the mask of personality.

If not the ascendant then what astrological symbol would you say best represents the personality? Or perhaps you do not consider the Ascendant at all. Is it a nothing in your view? Is that the case? Perhaps that is where we are on different tracks?

I do appreciate your input.
A*L
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Sorry, I get lost in the mountain of quotes. I'm having a difficult time picking out your point.

I don't believe I ever used the word Houses or even House systems in our discussion. I think you introduced the word Houses. I am not talking about "Houses" or house Systems. I am discussing the Ascendant as a point that represents the personality, the mask of a physical body as the vehicle of the soul. Is it a point? yes. Does it have physical mass? no. Is the Ascendant symbolic of the beginning of our geocentric incarnation? I believe so, unless you or someone can make a better case for a symbolic icon that represents the mask of personality.

If not the ascendant then what astrological symbol would you say best represents the personality? Or perhaps you do not consider the Ascendant at all. Is it a nothing in your view? Is that the case? Perhaps that is where we are on different tracks?

I do appreciate your input.
A*
L
Good to be appreciated thanks :smile:

I mentioned earlier that planet Earth is a planet,
whereas the ascendant is a symbolic mathematical calculation
RELATED TO planet Earth's revolving on its own axis
BUT
the ascendant is not itself a planet
 

alex premium

Active member
umm..ok guys I appreciate the discussion but none of it answers my question..you people have all that knowledge..I'd really like it if you'd discuss about the wrongs and rights in my chart with all that knowledge :smile:
 

Krewster

Well-known member
Not seeing any Grand Trines in your chart (bec I use tight orbs and only planets) and, in any case, I wouldn't think too deeply about an aspect to an angle made by transpersonal planets (dunno...just me).

Back to you, an interest in electricity and computers seems well indicated in your chart not only by the loose trine Uran makes to your Sun but also the 4-ish x tighter 135 it makes to your Merc (unless you advise to the contrary that your Merc is really too jumpy/nervous to focus on heavy details such as I imagine your major entails).

These same aspects to Uran can also represent a restless spirit (helpful for securing opportunities to export oneself).
 

Neptune Rising

Well-known member
Hi, I've got this 3 Grand Trines: Mars, Venus, Moon and Sun, Neptune, Ascendant and same with Chiron instead of Asc....what do they represent and what are their roles in my life? Also I'm currently studying Computer Engg 2nd year and thinking of going abroad for job after I complete my degree...How does it look in the charts? Thanks...

I will just highlight what stands out to me, sorry I am not referring to the 'grand trines' that you mention.

You asked about a job abroad, this looks possible as the ruler of ascendant and midheaven, both Mercury are in your natal 9th house, as well as your Sun. Looks to me like a strong drive to work abroad, though it could also manifest as other 9th house things such as a love of studying, teaching, travelling or all of those.

I also think Saturn is quite important in your chart, it sits right on the descendant, rules your 6th house (daily duties) and is mildly square your Mercury. Maybe worthwhile researching that planet. It also forms a strong opposition to your Chiron (conjunct ascendant). Note - some astrologers disregard Chiron, while others look at it's meaning, so it is totally up to the individual. Saturn in the 7th can relate to you meeting various people, maybe older, maybe in authority, wise, mentors, who can teach you alot and maybe assist you, ultimately so you can learn about yourself. Your Sun is mild sextile to the Saturn, which suggests to me people you encounter (others/7th house) can help you.
 
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