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Unread 02-05-2014, 12:56 AM
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Self-esteem in your chart

Hey!I 've been wondering which planetary aspects we have to check in our charts when we want to count the persons self-esteem?

I happen to project fluctuations in my self-esteem (sometimes going from one extreme to another) especially when I have a lot of free time & periods where I am not involved in anything creative...(Do you meet people like that?)Thanx.

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Unread 02-05-2014, 08:39 PM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

Hi. Self-esteem has a lot to do with the Sun and Venus, though the more planetary functions we feel we are successfully using, the better we will feel about ourselves. Jupiter endows with optimism and confidence, but I'm not sure if this counts as self-esteem as such.

You might find that the times when your self-esteem is low are potentially more creative than you think, but using these times productively may involve an upheaval of your values.

You would need to post your chart for anyone to say anything properly relevant to you.
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Unread 02-05-2014, 08:52 PM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

I have found that Venus afflictions with Saturn often relate to issues of low self-esteem...this is typically a factor of our past and the parents are very influential in determining our sense of self-esteem. Venus/Neptune can also denote the delusion of being not worthy and valueless; Look to the Sun/Moon as to how your parents imprinting during childhood could have led to a sense of low self-esteem. It is also a matter of having our self-confidence denied in the past. Afflictions to the Moon often show such tendencies as well...
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Unread 02-05-2014, 10:03 PM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

I hate to harp on this stuff, but you are going to have to define self esteem.

In education, in the USA, if you live here and are at all cognizant of how things work, you might be aware of the No Child Left Behind law. Its effects both positive and negative were profound for public and private education. One of the things it did was stimulate research into how humans learn.

What was discovered early on is that self esteem has little to do with feely touchy stuff about feeling good about yourself. Self Esteem is directly and specifically related to Success. If you believe that you are being successful in whatever endeavor you are working on, whether that school, or a job, or a marriage or whatever, and if the successes out number the failures, EVERYONE with that pattern has high or at least good self esteem. People who do not believe they are successful in school, work or relationships, will to varying degrees believe that they have low self esteem.

If you want to raise someone's self esteem in some area, increase their success in it as compared to everyone else.

If this is not what you mean by self esteem, then you are measuring or trying to measure something else.
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Unread 02-05-2014, 10:14 PM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

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Originally Posted by miquar View Post
Hi. Self-esteem has a lot to do with the Sun and Venus, though the more planetary functions we feel we are successfully using, the better we will feel about ourselves. Jupiter endows with optimism and confidence, but I'm not sure if this counts as self-esteem as such.

You might find that the times when your self-esteem is low are potentially more creative than you think, but using these times productively may involve an upheaval of your values.

You would need to post your chart for anyone to say anything properly relevant to you.
Hello miquar, I assumed it was the relationship between Jupiter- Sun.. but Venus seems more applicable. Here's a my placidus natal chart . Thank you for your answer miquar
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Unread 02-05-2014, 10:17 PM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

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Originally Posted by kimbermoon View Post
I have found that Venus afflictions with Saturn often relate to issues of low self-esteem...this is typically a factor of our past and the parents are very influential in determining our sense of self-esteem. Venus/Neptune can also denote the delusion of being not worthy and valueless; Look to the Sun/Moon as to how your parents imprinting during childhood could have led to a sense of low self-esteem. It is also a matter of having our self-confidence denied in the past. Afflictions to the Moon often show such tendencies as well...
Thank you kimbermoon for your answer,
I checked for Saturn-Venus & Venus/Neptune but I have no aspects between them...I think its the Moon square Sun
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Unread 02-05-2014, 10:37 PM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

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I hate to harp on this stuff, but you are going to have to define self esteem.

In education, in the USA, if you live here and are at all cognizant of how things work, you might be aware of the No Child Left Behind law. Its effects both positive and negative were profound for public and private education. One of the things it did was stimulate research into how humans learn.

What was discovered early on is that self esteem has little to do with feely touchy stuff about feeling good about yourself. Self Esteem is directly and specifically related to Success. If you believe that you are being successful in whatever endeavor you are working on, whether that school, or a job, or a marriage or whatever, and if the successes out number the failures, EVERYONE with that pattern has high or at least good self esteem. People who do not believe they are successful in school, work or relationships, will to varying degrees believe that they have low self esteem.

If you want to raise someone's self esteem in some area, increase their success in it as compared to everyone else.

If this is not what you mean by self esteem, then you are measuring or trying to measure something else.
I think you are right to question my definition because it has become a complex term...maybe even a vague term. (No I don't live the US, but Europe)

For me self-esteem is closely related with pride for my choices in life (pride for being who you are) & believing that I deserve success & not being afraid to make mistakes (also don't be afraid of criticism,or don't be influenced/ manipulated by others easily).

Maybe its differently portrayed in different ages...because I often feel good about what I have achieved so far but still I am demanding & wish to achieve more & more...
Thanks Zarathu
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Unread 02-05-2014, 10:56 PM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

Hi. I think that the Sun Neptune Pluto configuration is very relevant, with Sun in Pisces and Neptune on the Sun/Pluto midpoint. This suggests that the Sun finds it difficult to perform its function of creating a strong sense of selfhood.

Sun in Pisces in the 9th square Moon in Sagittarius will try to escape from the harshness and drudgery of life, though Jupiter being in Taurus suggests that you can use your strong imagination productively.

Venus is quincunx Chiron. This could also be significant.

Mercury in Aquarius can generate idealistic thoughts. Here it is on the 8th house closely square Pluto in the 5th house - this rather radical combination could be manifest inwardly as self-destructive thoughts. But this can be turned around by a determination to expose deeper feelings beneath these thoughts.

I would encourage you to get some kind of therapeutic support to reign in the extremes that you mention in your opening post. Otherwise,as transiting Neptune approaches your Sun and Moon you may become more ungrounded than is good for you.

You might also join a group of like-minded people who are on a mission to make a very practical difference in some way. This will help you to attune to those Taurus planets.
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Unread 02-05-2014, 11:47 PM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

Are you commenting on low self-esteem or simply fluctuations?

If the latter, how about your fusion triangle among Sun-Jup-Sat/Nept?

The Sun 80 Jup will confer confidence, the Sun 60 Sat/Nept also indicates positively and yet the 135 between Jup-Sat/Nept may manifest back to the Sun negatively (such as via social feedback or lack thereof).
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Unread 02-06-2014, 12:03 AM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

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Originally Posted by miquar View Post
Hi. I think that the Sun Neptune Pluto configuration is very relevant, with Sun in Pisces and Neptune on the Sun/Pluto midpoint. This suggests that the Sun finds it difficult to perform its function of creating a strong sense of selfhood.

Sun in Pisces in the 9th square Moon in Sagittarius will try to escape from the harshness and drudgery of life, though Jupiter being in Taurus suggests that you can use your strong imagination productively.

Venus is quincunx Chiron. This could also be significant.

Mercury in Aquarius can generate idealistic thoughts. Here it is on the 8th house closely square Pluto in the 5th house - this rather radical combination could be manifest inwardly as self-destructive thoughts. But this can be turned around by a determination to expose deeper feelings beneath these thoughts.

I would encourage you to get some kind of therapeutic support to reign in the extremes that you mention in your opening post. Otherwise,as transiting Neptune approaches your Sun and Moon you may become more ungrounded than is good for you.

You might also join a group of like-minded people who are on a mission to make a very practical difference in some way. This will help you to attune to those Taurus planets.
Thank you miquar I have trying counseling psychology in the recent past (for a while) but its seems that I have to work with these issues on my own...Doing group work on the other hand helped me immensely..(because theres constant interaction & feedback)
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Unread 02-06-2014, 12:08 AM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

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Originally Posted by Krewster View Post
Are you commenting on low self-esteem or simply fluctuations?

If the latter, how about your fusion triangle among Sun-Jup-Sat/Nept?

The Sun 80 Jup will confer confidence, the Sun 60 Sat/Nept also indicates positively and yet the 135 between Jup-Sat/Nept may manifest back to the Sun negatively (such as via social feedback or lack thereof).
Yes fluctuations...not low self-esteem.
yeah I think you are right on negativity manifested on the Sun..(via being around negative people in the past & that created moments of social anxiety...in the past.but that belongs to the past, I am reinventing my social circle)
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Unread 02-06-2014, 02:40 AM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

I would look at hard aspects from Saturn Neptune, or Pluto (and possibly Uranus) to one's sun or moon.

Zaruthu, take your point on success, yet highly successful people can suffer from low self-esteem, and people whom society would judge to be unsuccessful can be self-confident.

However, we also have to consider the person in context. Imagine a member of a visible ethnic or religious minority in an intolerant society; or the first woman to take on a "man's job" at a large employer.

With squares to the sun or moon, I think the challenges to a healthy sense of self are more internalized; with the oppositions, they can actually show up as push-back from other people.

The reason for the latter is that oppositions to the "me" points in the horoscope can indicate planets that the person "disowns" and suppresses. Then unsurprisingly, the chart will manifest in some way, so the person tends to attract others who seemingly manifest the negative traits of the unwanted planet.

Sun trine moon and sun sextile moon people normally have good self-confidence.

Of course, a huge problem in American schools was focusing on kids' self-esteem to the point where the ones who couldn't work at grade-level were passed through the system nevertheless. At some level, we all have to define success for ourselves.
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Unread 02-06-2014, 08:28 PM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

if I might add...Indeed success is part of the formula for positive self-esteem, however not the only thing; I was very successful in school, academically, however socially I was terribly awkward and shy, because my home life was a wreck. Look to the ruler of the 4th H ruling the parents and past domestic scenario:
Venus has transferred it's energy into the 8th H; while not configured with Saturn it is square to the Moon and that is another indicator of past difficulties with a parent, and usually the mother. Any difficulties therein would then be carried forward in the psyche and thus affect the Moon-ruled expression of personality. Venus in Pisces is typically rather shy and reserved socially and need a lot of encouragement and support in the early years. We note that actually Jupiter is not within orb aspect with the Sun, but it is with Venus. One might hope that the Moon in Sagittarius might offset this, however the opposition with Mars/Jupiter reinforces the potential for difficulty. I believe that self-esteem is about feeling worthy, confident and self-possessed , and Venus relates to our individual 'value fulfilment' and that the Sun is more about success in other forms.
Another factor to consider is the relationship between Saturn and the Mars/Jupiter conjunct; the normal exuberance and optimism this conjunct might generate is thus held back by Saturn, which we see rules your DC [socialization], further adding to the t-square influence.
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Unread 02-06-2014, 09:20 PM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

I agree, kimbermoon. I was an honour student in high school, but socially, my self-esteem was the pits. I realize that the teen-aged years are hard on a lot of people, but not like this! One of the big advantages of ageing was accumulating enough life experience to realize that I could weather the mean girls, the adult bullies, and the gossips without having to believe that their disrespect said anything about who I was as a human being. Realizing that "I've been through this type of thing before and survived!" was a huge help.
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Unread 02-12-2014, 12:23 AM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

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I would look at hard aspects from Saturn Neptune, or Pluto (and possibly Uranus) to one's sun or moon.

.
I agree that Saturn square the Sun and probably Neptune can reflect low self esteem. I don't agree with Uranus or Pluto doing so however. The former two have doubt, the latter two do not. IMO. Totally different energies, the former are debilitating the latter are empowering

Just my 2 cents.

I think you have to establish what self esteem actually means...well, it means knowledge /acceptance of ones self worth, everyone has it, and is entitled to it, and I would include the second house in this...

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Unread 02-12-2014, 05:06 AM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

In my experience, people with sun square Pluto were often bullied as children. They grow up learning not to trust people. As adults they tend to construe life as a "zero sum game" in which his win is automatically her loss, and vice versa. There are huge self-esteem issues here. Pluto -sun is also a huge stand for self-transformation so there is a route to an empowering interpretation.

With sun opposite Pluto, there is often a very dysfunctional relationship with the father. Perceiving one's father as embodying Pluto's negative traits is pretty hard on a little kid without the internal resources to stand up to him. Planets opposite the sun are often disowned energies that show up as other people who seemingly embody the disowned planets negative traits. Again, the key to the doorway out is focusing on self-transformation.

With Uranus square or opposite the sun, it is hard to establish a solid sense of self; because just when a young person thinks s/he has done that, Uranus blows it out of the water.
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Unread 02-12-2014, 05:23 AM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

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In my experience, people with sun square Pluto were often bullied as children. They grow up learning not to trust people. As adults they tend to construe life as a "zero sum game" in which his win is automatically her loss, and vice versa. There are huge self-esteem issues here. Pluto -sun is also a huge stand for self-transformation so there is a route to an empowering interpretation.

With sun opposite Pluto, there is often a very dysfunctional relationship with the father. Perceiving one's father as embodying Pluto's negative traits is pretty hard on a little kid without the internal resources to stand up to him. Planets opposite the sun are often disowned energies that show up as other people who seemingly embody the disowned planets negative traits. Again, the key to the doorway out is focusing on self-transformation.

With Uranus square or opposite the sun, it is hard to establish a solid sense of self; because just when a young person thinks s/he has done that, Uranus blows it out of the water.
Interesting I have Pluto trine Sun, I 've been bullied a lot as a kid but always fought back...however its difficult for me to trust people now as an adult..Also I have natal Uranus/Saturn & Neptune sextile to my Sun. I think my father played a major role in my sense of identity & choosing an art career.

Now that I am thinking about it if people were bullied in a tender age, they were unable to fight back...they often feel like losers & are passive in their dreams/career decisions as adults... I know people like that & its very difficult to help them..
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Unread 02-15-2014, 12:55 AM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

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In my experience, people with sun square Pluto were often bullied as children. They grow up learning not to trust people. As adults they tend to construe life as a "zero sum game" in which his win is automatically her loss, and vice versa. There are huge self-esteem issues here. Pluto -sun is also a huge stand for self-transformation so there is a route to an empowering interpretation.

With sun opposite Pluto, there is often a very dysfunctional relationship with the father. Perceiving one's father as embodying Pluto's negative traits is pretty hard on a little kid without the internal resources to stand up to him. Planets opposite the sun are often disowned energies that show up as other people who seemingly embody the disowned planets negative traits. Again, the key to the doorway out is focusing on self-transformation.

With Uranus square or opposite the sun, it is hard to establish a solid sense of self; because just when a young person thinks s/he has done that, Uranus blows it out of the water.
Pluto sun aspects never struck me as victim ones per se rather the opposite, inbuilt gangsters, vigilantes, rough justice seekers, whistleblowers and the like, always honst people too, that's the high side of sun pluto

you say sun opposite Pluto shows disfunctional relationship, how can you be so sure?

why is there no positive aspect to this?

and what is this "self transformation" I keep reading about? Is Dracula anything to do with it?

the insistence that squares and oppositions are automatically negative I don't buy, sorry

Ps I totally disagree with you about sun Uranus....the child has absolute power and freedom here..it's in the recipe

I don't have a load of case histories like you might WB. With respect though

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Unread 02-15-2014, 01:22 AM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

emily23: You're funny, but even gangsters, vigilantes, rough justice seekers, whistleblowers and the like, have a past. Things could have happened in their youth that made them that way. I do agree with you though when you say these Pluto Sun squares are not just negative, just from my own feeling.
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Unread 02-15-2014, 01:32 AM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

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Originally Posted by miquar View Post
Hi. Self-esteem has a lot to do with the Sun and Venus, though the more planetary functions we feel we are successfully using, the better we will feel about ourselves. Jupiter endows with optimism and confidence, but I'm not sure if this counts as self-esteem as such.

You might find that the times when your self-esteem is low are potentially more creative than you think, but using these times productively may involve an upheaval of your values.

You would need to post your chart for anyone to say anything properly relevant to you.
I agree with you and yes Venus has to be well placed as well as well aspected planets in the 1st house particularly, for the body image and persona. I think self esteem can be gained along the way even for those who are born with enormous self loathing and dislike as sometimes happens. The condition of the sun and moon is also important as it shows how our parents treated us and each other, our early conditioning.
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Unread 02-15-2014, 01:36 AM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

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Interesting I have Pluto trine Sun, I 've been bullied a lot as a kid but always fought back...however its difficult for me to trust people now as an adult..Also I have natal Uranus/Saturn & Neptune sextile to my Sun. I think my father played a major role in my sense of identity & choosing an art career.

Now that I am thinking about it if people were bullied in a tender age, they were unable to fight back...they often feel like losers & are passive in their dreams/career decisions as adults... I know people like that & its very difficult to help them..
People ultimately have to help themselves and with support from others or not..
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Unread 02-15-2014, 04:44 AM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

Emily, I am basing my sun square Pluto comments on a couple of threads-- I recall one at Astrodienst where many people with sun-Pluto contacts shared their experiences, plus reading a lot of charts for people.

The up-side of sun-square Pluto is that it can make the person an ongoing stand for personal (sun) transformation (Pluto.)

Of course, a sun-Pluto person might be the bully rather than the bullied person. But this is a major point about these aspects. People with them tend to construe relationships as a zero-sum game. His win is necessarily her loss, or vice versa. This habit can be broken, however, so that a win-win is personal transformation for both parties.
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Unread 02-15-2014, 08:07 AM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

I know only one example with Sun opposite Pluto, and there was no doubt very dysfunctional relationship with the father.

Somebody mentioned that planets in the first house play an important role in self- esteem. What about the aspects with Ascendant and what about the ruler of the Ascendant? Wouldn't they play an important role, too?

Chiron in the first house would probably say something, too, especially close to Ascendant and strongly aspected.
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Unread 02-15-2014, 08:41 AM
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

Hi Emily. There is a thread going at the moment in which I try to explain why Pluto aspects don't necessarily lead someone to throw their weight around. Its called 'unaspected mc' or something like that.

Hi Claire. Yes, people with tense aspects involving parts of the chart related to self-esteem often have to work at it, though sometimes they come across as quite confident when in fact they aren't and in these cases they can be quite brash.
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Unread 02-17-2014, 04:54 PM
tee_jay66 tee_jay66 is offline
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Re: Self-esteem in your chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraL View Post
Hey!I 've been wondering which planetary aspects we have to check in our charts when we want to count the persons self-esteem?

I happen to project fluctuations in my self-esteem (sometimes going from one extreme to another) especially when I have a lot of free time & periods where I am not involved in anything creative...(Do you meet people like that?)Thanx.
Hi
self-esteem is very much to do with the ego. I find a few factors in showing how stable a person's sense of self is

Sun square neptune shows a problem with identity, where the person does not have a stable sense of who they are at their core.

2nd house ruler and its aspects
1st house ruler and planets within it show how the personality is manifested in outer life
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