Atheist Astrologers
- Thread starter Moog
- Start date
ImNotThere9
Well-known member
I think that Atheists are not wont to be rife in the study of Astrology considering the vast number of metaphysical principles that permeate the study. Astrologers are given first hand to witness what they regard as something transcendent and spiritual in operation in our lives. In this they discern something which refutes the callow Atheists and exposes their fundamental inexperience, such as it is.
Conversely, though, it is conceivable that many Atheists have been drawn to the study of Astrology for reasons their own. As a result of their incredulous frame of reference, they are more likely, I think, to want to winnow away from the practice the age-old metaphysical precepts underpinning it in order to make it more permissible. That is to say, to make it more acceptable to them and to make themselves more acceptable for bothering about it in the first place. Probably they would elevate it to the rank of science and fact before they could deign to study it with seriousness and intent.
If you are looking for Atheistic-Astrology exemplars, then I can offer you none. But I can affirm that I have met an unreckonable number of astrologers from diverse backgrounds and more diverse systems of belief and all of them without exception have been metaphysically inclusive. But, to be sure, I do not think that Atheism and Astrology are mutually exclusive. Hopefully this has been of some worth for you.
Perhaps I should also add that I approve of neither of these two systems. Often the people one observes on this site and elsewhere who partake of some spiritual dogma are enough to beggar belief themselves; it simply doesn't do to have one's head in the clouds and to dwell on terribly abstract, implausible concepts of cloudy this and that. There is a real world in which we dwell, and I can assure you that it is very costly to neglect that fact. It is callous and trying but at least it is.
Moreover, one should neither be loathe to investigate the matter of God. It is my opinion that every individual is responsible for probing this important concept on his own. Religion is mere herd instinct and cannot allow for a very fulfilling sense of the transcendent, at least not if you are possessed of an even slightly enquiring intellect. That said, I have had sufficient experience in this regard as a direct result of my belief that each individual must explore this for himself. It surely merits the attempt. What conclusion you draw is your own business, but whatever it may be at least it is your own.
Conversely, though, it is conceivable that many Atheists have been drawn to the study of Astrology for reasons their own. As a result of their incredulous frame of reference, they are more likely, I think, to want to winnow away from the practice the age-old metaphysical precepts underpinning it in order to make it more permissible. That is to say, to make it more acceptable to them and to make themselves more acceptable for bothering about it in the first place. Probably they would elevate it to the rank of science and fact before they could deign to study it with seriousness and intent.
If you are looking for Atheistic-Astrology exemplars, then I can offer you none. But I can affirm that I have met an unreckonable number of astrologers from diverse backgrounds and more diverse systems of belief and all of them without exception have been metaphysically inclusive. But, to be sure, I do not think that Atheism and Astrology are mutually exclusive. Hopefully this has been of some worth for you.
Perhaps I should also add that I approve of neither of these two systems. Often the people one observes on this site and elsewhere who partake of some spiritual dogma are enough to beggar belief themselves; it simply doesn't do to have one's head in the clouds and to dwell on terribly abstract, implausible concepts of cloudy this and that. There is a real world in which we dwell, and I can assure you that it is very costly to neglect that fact. It is callous and trying but at least it is.
Moreover, one should neither be loathe to investigate the matter of God. It is my opinion that every individual is responsible for probing this important concept on his own. Religion is mere herd instinct and cannot allow for a very fulfilling sense of the transcendent, at least not if you are possessed of an even slightly enquiring intellect. That said, I have had sufficient experience in this regard as a direct result of my belief that each individual must explore this for himself. It surely merits the attempt. What conclusion you draw is your own business, but whatever it may be at least it is your own.
Last edited:
I'll say this Moog.
I am going through a period where I am willfully choosing to suspend belief in anything other than what I see right in front of me. I am choosing to let go of my previous life of spirituality and the conscious path towards 'enlightenment.' In short I am choosing to live as an atheist.
I still believe that Astrology works and I could never in a million years tell you why; but neither can I tell you why particles at the smallest and most fundamental level exist in a state of supposition and probability that collapses into a final wave form once observed, but they do.
I believe the two ideas are not incompatible, but that one must not be too dogmatic about what 'reality' is.
I am going through a period where I am willfully choosing to suspend belief in anything other than what I see right in front of me. I am choosing to let go of my previous life of spirituality and the conscious path towards 'enlightenment.' In short I am choosing to live as an atheist.
I still believe that Astrology works and I could never in a million years tell you why; but neither can I tell you why particles at the smallest and most fundamental level exist in a state of supposition and probability that collapses into a final wave form once observed, but they do.
I believe the two ideas are not incompatible, but that one must not be too dogmatic about what 'reality' is.
wintersprite1
Premium Member
Hi Moog,
I have been an Atheist most of my life. I never applied the same disbelief for anything metaphysical... science has told us there are multiple dimensions beyond our understanding. Since we don't have the whole picture, I decided I could not come to a conclusions of the "if there is, or how it works". Following that line of reason, the next conclusion I eventually came to was that religion requires faith.... so does being an atheist, the faith there is no God, thus creating it's on dogma. I have settled on Agnostic, very comfortable saying, *shrug* I don't know. Acknowledging not knowing has not thwarted studying Astrology nor spiritual pursuits.
TK
I have been an Atheist most of my life. I never applied the same disbelief for anything metaphysical... science has told us there are multiple dimensions beyond our understanding. Since we don't have the whole picture, I decided I could not come to a conclusions of the "if there is, or how it works". Following that line of reason, the next conclusion I eventually came to was that religion requires faith.... so does being an atheist, the faith there is no God, thus creating it's on dogma. I have settled on Agnostic, very comfortable saying, *shrug* I don't know. Acknowledging not knowing has not thwarted studying Astrology nor spiritual pursuits.
TK
tsmall
Premium Member
I think the question depends on one's personal definition of atheism. The dictionary gives us a disbelief in God. Ok. Is that God as defined by any accepted religion or dogma, as Munch said, or God defined as something of higher intellect than we humans can process? Is it necessary to have some form of spirituality, or some acknowledgement that everything and everyone in the universe is connected? Connected in what way? Though, a better question would be, if Astrology works, why can we see answers reflected in the stars above us?
I think that "theism" is not necessary for astrology to be accepted by an individual, but that what it really takes is an open mind, and an understanding that we, as humans, might not ever comprehend all of life's mysteries.
I think that "theism" is not necessary for astrology to be accepted by an individual, but that what it really takes is an open mind, and an understanding that we, as humans, might not ever comprehend all of life's mysteries.
I also agree that belief in God/Divinity/Creator is NOT necessary for the application of astrological methods and delineations, whether Western or Vedic or Chinese. However, I also believe that spiritual insight and sensitivity adds to one's capacity to effectively delineate the macrocosmic indications ("astrological indications"), but this spiritual insight can take many varied forms, and following certain, for example, hinayana Buddhist concepts, does NOT necessarily require a belief in a Supreme Being or Creator God, whatsoever.
No. Astrology is an Art. Atheism is a belief (or lack thereof).
Astrology can be proven (or disproven) statistically. Atheism cannot be proven (or disproven) because it's very basis is a denial of something that has not been sufficiently proven to begin with, except by belief.
One can doubt the validity of ancient myths (holy books et al) but still recognize the correlation between terrestial and celestial events.
Astrology is not a belief in deities. Atheism is the rejection of beliefs in dieties.
Atheists deny supernatural and/or superstitious claims. Astrology makes no supernatural or superstitious claims. If it did, astrology would be a religion which, undoubtibly, many treat it as, going on faith and heresay rather than personal experience and observation.
Finally, atheism is ultimately a perspective. Astrology is a practice.
tokyo.lights
Well-known member
Weird I was thinking about this yesterday. Yes, it's strange someone can scoff at religion but believe in astrology. Personally I don't believe in God, but I am spiritual...and that spirituality is why I can believe in astrology.
Rebel Uranian
Well-known member
Of course there are atheistic astrologers. What does believing in a god have to do with looking at the stars? There are atheistic (without a god) religions. You could even be irreligious and do astrology I suppose. Now, antitheistic astrologers - no way.
Moog
Well-known member
To me, astrology seems to naturally imply some form of pantheism, which isn't really a belief in 'a' God, but more a belief that the universe is God?
I think when I made this thread I was really thinking of the anti-theist crowd, who are often anti-astrology as well.
Rebel Uranian
Well-known member
Astrology sort of implies pantheism, but people can find all sorts of ways of getting out of it.
People confuse atheism, irreligion, and antitheism all the time. It leads to mixed-up beliefs and prejudices. Like, right now, I don't know what to believe, so I get accused of being an "atheist" by which they mean antitheist. Anti-theists are anti-anything that isn't sensory perception and logic. The thing is, both our senses and our logic can be and are often wrong. I think common sense is really key to avoid craziness in all the ways it manifests. That can be wrong too, but at least it lowers the wrongness to acceptable levels that are considered mentally healthy and are better for humans getting along with each other.
People confuse atheism, irreligion, and antitheism all the time. It leads to mixed-up beliefs and prejudices. Like, right now, I don't know what to believe, so I get accused of being an "atheist" by which they mean antitheist. Anti-theists are anti-anything that isn't sensory perception and logic. The thing is, both our senses and our logic can be and are often wrong. I think common sense is really key to avoid craziness in all the ways it manifests. That can be wrong too, but at least it lowers the wrongness to acceptable levels that are considered mentally healthy and are better for humans getting along with each other.
Last edited:
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
QUOTE
“It may surprise you to know that modern day religion has ties to ritualistic inebriation...” SOURCE “The Pharmacratic Inquisition” - Official Online Video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suBqqpez_-I
Jesusistheway
Well-known member
If you ask me I think we are being tested in this incarnation for all the above in life. Belief is ultimately a choice. If you have a predisposition in a gene to not believe that's understandable. But for the rest of us, I see it this way.
If the big bang is spontaneous and incredibly unpredictable and came out of the blue then how come we have numbers? Well you may say man created numbers? Well how come the universe is so organized into numbers that man created it? I think there is intelligent design by a Creator because of nature, universe, us and the human body, but with faith I know by signs because of the supernatural- meaning encounters with angels, deceased spirits and ascended masters.
Even God does not require you believe in Itself (I would use Him but to not to cause even more gender based discussions) It just is and does love us because It sought to share Itself and what It has created with us and for us. We are social creatures capable of love and so are animals. It is love, chemistry that makes life between two individuals well same goes for the Creator. That was my attempt to explain my personal rationalization of the existence of God. I can go on because this is an interesting subject of mine but all in all, many scientists do believe in a Creator it is just the atheists who get more attention.
If the big bang is spontaneous and incredibly unpredictable and came out of the blue then how come we have numbers? Well you may say man created numbers? Well how come the universe is so organized into numbers that man created it? I think there is intelligent design by a Creator because of nature, universe, us and the human body, but with faith I know by signs because of the supernatural- meaning encounters with angels, deceased spirits and ascended masters.
Even God does not require you believe in Itself (I would use Him but to not to cause even more gender based discussions) It just is and does love us because It sought to share Itself and what It has created with us and for us. We are social creatures capable of love and so are animals. It is love, chemistry that makes life between two individuals well same goes for the Creator. That was my attempt to explain my personal rationalization of the existence of God. I can go on because this is an interesting subject of mine but all in all, many scientists do believe in a Creator it is just the atheists who get more attention.
Kuntuzangmo
Well-known member
Buddhists go beyond the assertions of theism, non-theism, neither or both.
Awareness perceives/creates and all sentient beings equally have awareness and buddha nature. Everything is interdependent, impermanent, beyond the chicken/egg paradox and some external entity controlling everything.
Awareness perceives/creates and all sentient beings equally have awareness and buddha nature. Everything is interdependent, impermanent, beyond the chicken/egg paradox and some external entity controlling everything.
I try not to worry about what category i may fit within. people may group you into categoriations to get a feel for who you are, but all I try to do is be open to whatever makes sense and expands what I know about myself and my reality. it can be hard to do sometimes when people want you to be certain ways.
I use to be consumed by thoughts of the afterlife, having no real explanation given to me for what would occur after i die, and it took me 25 years to finally resolve this fear and find an understanding about it that wouldn't scare me. It took me writing a book on everything I knew about perception, and in the process revealed to me what would happen, or at least what the most logical answer was in my mind.
I use to be consumed by thoughts of the afterlife, having no real explanation given to me for what would occur after i die, and it took me 25 years to finally resolve this fear and find an understanding about it that wouldn't scare me. It took me writing a book on everything I knew about perception, and in the process revealed to me what would happen, or at least what the most logical answer was in my mind.
I'm not an atheist,but I don't accept everything astrology claims,mainly because today's astrology is a mix of beliefs that have come from many different cultures and those beliefs are related to the religion.
What I mean is,for example the past lives.No,I don't believe in incarnation and it's not that astrology supports it,it is vedic astrology that does.I'm also sure that the ancient greek astrology didn't mentioned anything about past lives(could be wrong of course,in that case please provide info) because the greeks considered the body an obstacle to the soul's freedom.For that reason they didn't easily accept Christianity's beliefs about Jesus' resurrection.
I am assuming the reason atheists turn down astrology is cause it's related to gods and deity's.
Egyptians believed in gods,Greeks too,Chinese as well,the Aztects too etc.
What I mean is,for example the past lives.No,I don't believe in incarnation and it's not that astrology supports it,it is vedic astrology that does.I'm also sure that the ancient greek astrology didn't mentioned anything about past lives(could be wrong of course,in that case please provide info) because the greeks considered the body an obstacle to the soul's freedom.For that reason they didn't easily accept Christianity's beliefs about Jesus' resurrection.
I am assuming the reason atheists turn down astrology is cause it's related to gods and deity's.
Egyptians believed in gods,Greeks too,Chinese as well,the Aztects too etc.