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  #1  
Unread 01-21-2013, 12:12 AM
savanna savanna is offline
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Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

I've heard someone say that no planets in the 10th house means no fame. I'm sure the aspects to the Midheaven are more important. Here are some celebs without planets in the 10th house:

Marlon Brando
Justin Timberlake
Whitney Houston
Barack Obama
Brad Pitt
Britney Spears (only minor planets)
Jennifer Aniston
Scarlett Johansson
George Clooney
Justin Bieber
John Lennon
Demi Moore
David Bowie
Katy Perry
Mariah Carey
Amy Winehouse (only minor planets)
Sharon Tate
Katie Holmes
Mel Gibson
Paul McCartney
Mick Jagger
Halle Berry
Robert de Niro
Marilyn Manson
John Travolta

and several others I'm sure.


Last edited by savanna; 09-16-2014 at 04:12 AM.
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  #2  
Unread 01-21-2013, 12:19 AM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

I would comment that early influences/direction in life have a lot to do with it. I have read for examplethat Jimi Hendrix grew up in a musical family etc

Last edited by Hermetica; 01-21-2013 at 12:24 AM.
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Unread 01-21-2013, 12:24 AM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

Well that was an easy myth to bust
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  #4  
Unread 01-21-2013, 01:44 AM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

A full 10th house is not a promise for public recognition.

People with an empty 7th get married all the time- why shouldn't a person with an empty 10th become recognised for his work and even publicly exposed.

The Sun is the natural ruler of this matter and it is always important to check the shape of that planet regardless of which house it rules. Same goes for the ruler of the 10th. Some astrologers like Morin advise us to check even the dispositor of the Sun.

However, even a 12th house Sun will not denial public success. As a mater of fact, many professions that are nowadays considered public, have got a strong connection with the 12th. You might want to find a list of public persons with a strong 12th or a 12th house Sun - the list is most likely to be impressive.

Take acting as an example- if we exclude startles, models and ex body-builders who join the army of public performers for the purpose of becoming recognised, seen and well paid (those, after all, aren't really actors!), we are left with people who live their life hidden behind other people's personalities- their characters. Jodie Foster, Anthony Hopkins, Meryl Streep, Keanu Reeves, Orlando Bloom...they all have a 12th house Sun.

Similarly, a prominent 12th can often be found in the charts of people who became famous for their work although the majority of their activities remains hidden behind the walls of their home- writers, for instance!

The MC is not the only place where one becomes famous, after all!

Cheers,

aglaya

Last edited by aglaya; 01-22-2013 at 03:17 PM.
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  #5  
Unread 01-21-2013, 02:34 AM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

Quote:
Originally Posted by aglaya View Post
A full 10th house is not a promise for public recognition.

People with an empty 7th get married all the time- why shouldn't a person with an empty 10th become recognised for his work and even publicly exposed.

The Sun is the natural ruler of this matter and it is always important to check the shape of that planet regardless of which house it rules. Same house for the ruler of the 10th. Some astrologers like Morin advise us to check even the dispositor of the Sun.

However, even a 12th house Sun will not denial public success. As a mater of fact, many professions that are nowadays considered public, have got a strong connection with the 12th. You might want to find a list of public persons with string 12th or a 12th house Sun - the list is most likely to be impressive.

Take acting as an example- if we exclude startles, models and ex body-builders who join the army of public performers for the purpose of becoming recognised, seen and well paid (those, after all, aren't really actors!), we are left with people who live their life hidden behind other people's personalities- their characters. Jodie Foster, Anthony Hopkins, Meryl Streep, Keanu Reeves, Orlando Bloom...they all have a 12th house Moon.

Similarly, a prominent 12th can often be found in the charts of people who became famous for their work although the majority of their activities remains hidden behind the walls of their home- writers, for instance!

The MC is not the only place where one becomes famous, after all!
Cheers, aglaya
For example,

ex-President George W Bush is a Tropical Leo Ascendant with a 12th house Tropical Cancer Sun
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Unread 01-21-2013, 02:45 PM
aglaya aglaya is offline
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
For example,

ex-President George W Bush is a Tropical Leo Ascendant with a 12th house Tropical Cancer Sun

True, great example!
I find his chart so interesting! Its probably one of the best examples of how 12th house matters can turn you into a world famous person!

My Ascendant ruler went into the 12th in Leo and my Sun is in Cancer- I think I might become a president myself!"

(The influence of Cancer in the charts of presidents and prime ministers and its connection with the Sun is yet another interesting topic- Cancer rules masses and national heritage, the Sun rules authorities and pride; a mix of the two energies can create anything from a fighter for independence to a dictator).

Last edited by aglaya; 01-21-2013 at 02:53 PM.
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Unread 01-21-2013, 05:14 PM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

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True, great example!
I find his chart so interesting! Its probably one of the best examples of how 12th house matters can turn you into a world famous person!

My Ascendant ruler went into the 12th in Leo and my Sun is in Cancer- I think I might become a president myself!"

(The influence of Cancer in the charts of presidents and prime ministers and its connection with the Sun is yet another interesting topic- Cancer rules masses and national heritage, the Sun rules authorities and pride; a mix of the two energies can create anything from a fighter for independence to a dictator).
Despite no planets in 10th notice that G W Bush's natal Sun, although in 12th - crucially is conjunct the powerful FIXED STAR SIRIUS

'….Sun conjunct Sirius brings success in business, occupation connected with metals or other martial affairs, domestic harmony....' source: Robson p209

'….Well connected, it promises fame, honors and riches. Sirius in conjunction with the Sun and well placed in the chart will be found to be the case with numerous important and famous personalities. Possibly, the rise in station is made possible by protection from people of influence.....' source: Fixed Stars and Their Interpretation, Elsbeth Ebertin, 1928, p.38.

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Unread 01-22-2013, 12:42 AM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

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Well that was an easy myth to bust
The Mc ruler is important for celebrity and where it is and what aspects it makes . Some actors for instance dont like the spotlight such as Marlon Brando and many view their careers as their work rather. However I have revised my opinion that there must be planets actually in the 10th for celebrity status. Not so. The 10th deals with much more than public recognition. It is our authority figures,
our goals and our concern for reputation. How we achieve and attain our ambitions. It is our career and our vocation.

Thanks for bringing up the subject. There is no common denominator really. .
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Last edited by Claire19; 03-15-2013 at 03:27 AM.
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Unread 01-22-2013, 01:02 AM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

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Originally Posted by Claire19 View Post
The charts must be wrong if the celebrities or public figures have nothing in the 10th or conjunct the MC. It is not a myth, it makes sound astrological sense that the influences are in the house of fame and public life and I still maintain that without those, there is no wide recognition.
Certainly you are entitled to your opinion, however there is evidence to the contrary as shown with the example of ex-President G W Bush
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Unread 01-22-2013, 01:06 AM
aglaya aglaya is offline
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

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It is not a myth, it makes sound astrological sense that the influences are in the house of fame and public life and I still maintain that without those, there is no wide recognition
The influence- yes. The point itself- not necessarily!
I don't think I have found a single astrological text, traditional or modern, that suggested that only a conjunction with MC or the presence of a well dignified planet inside the 10th is capable of making a person famous or widely known!
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Unread 01-22-2013, 01:16 AM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

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Originally Posted by Claire19 View Post
The charts must be wrong if the celebrities or public figures have nothing in the 10th or conjunct the MC. It is not a myth, it makes sound astrological sense that the influences are in the house of fame and public life and I still maintain that without those, there is no wide recognition.
I wish I could feel so certain about my tentatively held beliefs regarding astrology.

Best get rectificating! Lotta charts that don't fit
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Unread 01-22-2013, 04:29 AM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

The quality of the planetary ruler of the 10th house, or the placement of a Lot (Arabic Part) in the 10th house, or the transiting of an important natal planet to the cusp of the 10th house, star connections to the MC or to the cusp of the 10th house (where a quadrant house system is not used to erect the chart) or the dodekatemorion ramification of a planet into the 10th house, might well "make up" for no planets in the 10th house, in celebrity cases (also we need to know what house system was used in a particular case, because certain house systems like whole sign might well place a planet in a house where it wouldn't be so placed by another house system)

Last edited by dr. farr; 01-22-2013 at 04:31 AM.
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Unread 01-22-2013, 04:53 AM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

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...(also we need to know what house system was used in a particular case, because certain house systems like whole sign might well place a planet in a house where it wouldn't be so placed by another house system)
That's an important consideration dr. farr HOWEVER in the case of ex-President G W Bush there are NO planets - either classical OR modern - in either 9th OR 10th IRRESPECTIVE OF HOUSE SYSTEM
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Unread 01-22-2013, 04:55 AM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

Right-so the other considerations I mentioned, above, would need to be investigated.
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Unread 01-22-2013, 04:58 AM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

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Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
Right-so the other considerations I mentioned, above, would need to be investigated.
Exactly....
Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Despite no planets in 10th notice that G W Bush's natal Sun, although in 12th - crucially is conjunct the powerful FIXED STAR SIRIUS

'.Sun conjunct Sirius brings success in business, occupation connected with metals or other martial affairs, domestic harmony....' source: Robson p209

'.Well connected, it promises fame, honors and riches. Sirius in conjunction with the Sun and well placed in the chart will be found to be the case with numerous important and famous personalities. Possibly, the rise in station is made possible by protection from people of influence.....' source: Fixed Stars and Their Interpretation, Elsbeth Ebertin, 1928, p.38.

Constellations of words comprehensive fixed stars lists
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Unread 01-22-2013, 01:40 PM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

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Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
The quality of the planetary ruler of the 10th house, or the placement of a Lot (Arabic Part) in the 10th house, or the transiting of an important natal planet to the cusp of the 10th house, star connections to the MC or to the cusp of the 10th house (where a quadrant house system is not used to erect the chart) or the dodekatemorion ramification of a planet into the 10th house, might well "make up" for no planets in the 10th house,

To this I may just want to add that many traditionalists give the Sun, as the natural ruler of honours and public recognition, the secondary rulership of the matter no matter where Leo falls in the chart. Some others (such as Morin, for instance), consider it extremely important and, even if the Sun alone does not support public recognition, he advises us to examine the shape of the Sun's dispositor!
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Unread 01-22-2013, 03:13 PM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

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Originally Posted by aglaya View Post
A full 10th house is not a promise for public recognition.

People with an empty 7th get married all the time- why shouldn't a person with an empty 10th become recognised for his work and even publicly exposed.

...

The MC is not the only place where one becomes famous, after all!

Cheers,

aglaya
I couldn't have put it better myself, these are exactly my thoughts.

Last night I was listening to an astrology podcast by Debra Clement (available free in iTunes) on fame in the horoscope. She gave examples about being famous for different reasons, for example, for performers, check the rulers of the 3rd and 5th being in the 10th and so on. My point is that it's usually a web of connections between houses, and particular houses can be checked for different kinds of fame. You 'pick up the string' and follow it through the houses finding the clues - the 10th doesn't always carry all the weight.

I agree still that the 10th has it's place in this matter. It's not called the 'house of highest visibility' for nothing!
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Unread 01-22-2013, 03:27 PM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

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She gave examples about being famous for different reasons, for example, for performers, check the rulers of the 3rd and 5th being in the 10th and so on. My point is that it's usually a web of connections between houses, and particular houses can be checked for different kinds of fame
Great observation! I have noticed that people with very accented 10th house sometimes suffer from the negative consequences of the 10th. Similarly, some of them turn everything into a 10th house matter! The ruler of the 4th on MC is a potential candidate for a family reality show (exposing your home to the public). On the other hand, sometimes when the influence of the houses that rule our intimacy (any part of our intimate life) are placed there and negatively aspected, we can assume that one part of the life if the Nativity is in a danger of being exposed to the public. I have see a good example of that- the 7th ruler conjunct Venus on the 10th cusp and receiving a lot of squares and the opposition of the L1 inside the 4th- the lady was married to a local politician. One day, a journalist managed to take a few pictures of her husband with another woman through the window of his hotel room! L7 conjunct Venus (husband with another woman) on MC (where things become public) turned the end her marriage into a nightmare as she herself found out about his affair from the newspapers.

In a diametrically opposite situation, people can become widely recognised for their work described by the house that naturally rules the activities they are engaged in. That would be the example that you're mentioning!

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Unread 01-22-2013, 08:06 PM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

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The charts must be wrong if the celebrities or public figures have nothing in the 10th or conjunct the MC. It is not a myth, it makes sound astrological sense that the influences are in the house of fame and public life and I still maintain that without those, there is no wide recognition.
Almost all of those birth times come from Astrodatabank and have an AA rating meaning that the times are straight from the birth certificates. The charts are accurate, your theory is not.
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Unread 01-23-2013, 03:56 AM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

I have found 11th house indications also connected with fame/success: the 11th house connects with hopes, dreams, wishes, and their fulfillment (or otherwise) Also, I almost never look ONLY at one house when making an evaluation regarding a particular area (or department) of life: certainly I give a preference to the (most signifying) house, but there are always at least one or 2 other houses connecting with the matter under evaluation: eg, regarding critical (to life) periods, I look at the 8th, but not alone-I'll consider the 12th very strongly, and also the 4th and, to a certain extent, the 6th house as well.
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Unread 01-23-2013, 12:45 PM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

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I have found 11th house indications also connected with fame/success: the 11th house connects with hopes, dreams, wishes, and their fulfillment (or otherwise)
Great point! And, if I may add- the 11th, being the house that succeeds the 10th, is also descriptive of the direct consequences of our 10th house activities (which fits its nature- that is not only where are dreams are sleeping but also where they come true ) and, consequently, it governs the followers of our work or, using popular terminology,our fans. From this perspective, this house is quite important in terms of feedback and reactions to our work.


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Unread 01-23-2013, 01:24 PM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

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A full 10th house is not a promise for public recognition.

Take acting as an example- if we exclude startles, models and ex body-builders who join the army of public performers for the purpose of becoming recognised, seen and well paid (those, after all, aren't really actors!), we are left with people who live their life hidden behind other people's personalities- their characters. Jodie Foster, Anthony Hopkins, Meryl Streep, Keanu Reeves, Orlando Bloom...they all have a 12th house Sun.

How interesting! Because those people in particular from what I know come across as very private people. You know celebrities; always parading themselves on show (most of the time anyway). But these in particular tend to enjoy keeping their private life out of the spotlight like you implied. They act because they want to act, not just because of the fame. I think someone with a Sun in 10th doesn't have to be famous but they sure like the fame OR they are good with keeping the crowd happy and has "star quality" presence in their career. Like Jim Morrison...
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Unread 01-23-2013, 02:49 PM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

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I have found 11th house indications also connected with fame/success: the 11th house connects with hopes, dreams, wishes, and their fulfillment (or otherwise)....
Particularly if ruler of 11th is in 10th or ruler 10th is in 11th
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Great point! And, if I may add- the 11th, being the house that succeeds the 10th, is also descriptive of the direct consequences of our 10th house activities (which fits its nature- that is not only where are dreams are sleeping but also where they come true )....
Remember also the 11th house is carried TO the 10th house by planet earth's diurnal motion bringing/carrying those 'hopes, dreams, wishes, and their fulfillment (or otherwise)' TO the 10th house
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Unread 01-23-2013, 02:58 PM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post

Remember also the 11th house is carried TO the 10th house by planet earth's diurnal motion bringing/carrying those 'hopes, dreams, wishes, and their fulfillment (or otherwise)' TO the 10th house

Ha! Another great point!

Being the south angle, the 10th is the place where we see first manifestations of the wishes born inside the east quadrant. If the eastern quadrant governs our youth, springs and mornings, the 10th cusp is the noon of our activities, the peak of our functionality and the place (and time) where our ideas start bearing fruit.

Beautiful remark, JupiterAsc!
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Unread 03-15-2013, 12:54 AM
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Re: Celebrities with no planets in the 10th house

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The charts must be wrong if the celebrities or public figures have nothing in the 10th or conjunct the MC. It is not a myth, it makes sound astrological sense that the influences are in the house of fame and public life and I still maintain that without those, there is no wide recognition.
I don't agree. Loads of charts of famous people have been created and are saved on sites like astrotheme and astrodatabank, many of them have empty 10th houses (or even empty southern hemispheres) and it's really unlikely that all of their birth times are wrong.

Celebrities like Paul McCartney, Jon Bon Jovi and Mick Jagger even have planets in the 4th and/or conjunct the IC. Justin Bieber rose to fame and achieved so much so early in his life, he has no planets in his 10th either.
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