miquar
Well-known member
Hi Fastlane. I know you are just asking about the quindeciles, but it feels necessary to say a few things to put things into context - for people in general reading the thread also.
To clarify comments made about the quindecile series of aspect, firstly, I'm not sure exactly what the word quindecile refers to. Is it specifically the 165 degree aspect, of does it also refer to the other multiples of 15 degrees? (most of which, of course come under other more fundamental harmonics, such as 8 x 15 which is the trine.) I recall that when a friend told me that she had read a book by Tyl in which he suggests that the 165 degree aspect is signifiant, the name that she said Tyl had given the aspect was a longer, Spanish-sounding word.
As for the differences between the 165 degree and, say, 75 degrees, we can expect there to be some differences, just as we see differences between the semisextile and the quincunx - both of which have the 30 degree span as their highest factor, and which are therefore primarily 12th harmonic aspects. So it is a question of where the aspect occurs in relation to the cycle of aspects as a whole, which is usually taken as beginning and ending at the conjunction. Certainly, the quincunx receives more attention than the semisextile, and this may be because the former is closer to the opposition stage of the cycle, while the latter is closer to the conjunction - thus with the quincunx there may be more of a sense of two functions in relation to one another, while with the semisextile there may be less awareness of the relationship. With this in mind, there may be some basis for Tyl's suggestion that the 165 aspect stands out amidst those 15 degree aspects which are not accounted for by more fundamental harmonics. So apologies for the dismissal of this idea in a previous post on this thread. Still, we would expect the other multiples to be significant, too - the 105 degree aspect is closer to the opposition than the square, for example.
And it is worth briefly noting that waxing and waning aspects are different in meaning in some ways. So there is a waxing 165 degree aspect and a waning 165 degree aspect.
Another point that is worth noting is that when we venture beyond the traditional aspects in order to fine tune our interpetations, there is a mass of data available. Other higher harmonic aspects, midpoints and lunation phase are all as worthy of attention as the 165 degree aspect. Its easy to attribute a character trait to a relatively insignificant feature of the natal chart, when in fact there is a more significant feature which accounts for the trait. This especially a danger when large orbs are used - for any aspect, even a conjunction or opposition.
As for the 165 degree aspect itself, the only way I know to interpret it is to consider the numbers of which its harmonic is a product. This is a 24th harmonic aspect so we can see it as the product of 8 and 3, or a product of 4 and 6. In the former case, it is the product of a sesquiquadrate and a trine, and in the latter case, it is the product of a square and a sextile. The first way of looking at it is probably clearer because it keeps the 2s separate from the 3s.
The sesquiquadrate is more 'automatic' than the square in the way it expresses. The tension inherent in the energies flows more readily - there is less of a tendency to resist. The square is just one step away from the opposition, which can manifest as a stalemate. With the square, there is more of a sense of urgency around using the energies together, but the potential for things to stall is still there. And then with the sesquiquadrate (and also the semisquare - the other 8th harmonic aspect), things manifest without so much interference from the native's conscious deliberations.
The trine is the aspect of innate understanding of how two principles work together. So we would expect the 24th harmonic to represent the an innate understanding of the processes of manifestation. I'm not sure what we would actually do with such understanding, though. Where 2 meets 3 in the sextile aspect, it is clear that although two-ness brings the potential for manifestation, it also brings the potential for polarisation, and so when we bring in three-ness we have an understanding of how to get into a steady rhythm of manifestation. But where 8 meets 3 in the 165 degree aspect, the process of manifestation has more of a 'life of its own' and its not obvious to me how the insight of three-ness would improve this process.
When we consider the aspect cycle, we see that the opposition is the point at which the two factors are attuned to one another in such a way that the relationship between self and other becomes more apparent. We might expect the waxing 165 degree aspect to bring awareness of how one is manifesting as an individual in final preparation for participation in a world of 'others', and the waning 165 degree aspect to bring awareness of how one is beginning to manifest one's social ideals.
In any case, when looking at aspects and configurations, the important thing is the natures of the factors involved. Venus Mercury Uranus is always Venus Mercury Uranus - its the same combination of functions. What changes is the harmonic frequency on which they are attuned to one another. In the 6th harmonic chart, these three planets would probably form a tight T square. So we can interpret it as a T square, but then keep in mind that we are working in the 6th harmonic. Similarly, we could look at the configuration in a 3rd, 4th or 8th harmonic chart.
So perhaps the Mercury Venus Uranus configuration in your chart is about having insight (3) into the way in which visions of truth and humanitarian concerns (Uranus) can find purposeful expression (8) through the way you connect with (Mercury and Venus, and the fact that we are discussing 165 aspects, rather than, say, 105 or 75). Or to try to put it into a less contrived sentence, perhaps when you connect with others, it is like you are conducting Uranian energy, which potential awakens both you and the other to some truth, with this possibly happening at a very subtle level which isn't necessarily obvious. I would encourage you to look at transits to the points I mentioned in a previous post on this thread, because these are times when you are more likely to see obvious expressions of this configuration.
To clarify comments made about the quindecile series of aspect, firstly, I'm not sure exactly what the word quindecile refers to. Is it specifically the 165 degree aspect, of does it also refer to the other multiples of 15 degrees? (most of which, of course come under other more fundamental harmonics, such as 8 x 15 which is the trine.) I recall that when a friend told me that she had read a book by Tyl in which he suggests that the 165 degree aspect is signifiant, the name that she said Tyl had given the aspect was a longer, Spanish-sounding word.
As for the differences between the 165 degree and, say, 75 degrees, we can expect there to be some differences, just as we see differences between the semisextile and the quincunx - both of which have the 30 degree span as their highest factor, and which are therefore primarily 12th harmonic aspects. So it is a question of where the aspect occurs in relation to the cycle of aspects as a whole, which is usually taken as beginning and ending at the conjunction. Certainly, the quincunx receives more attention than the semisextile, and this may be because the former is closer to the opposition stage of the cycle, while the latter is closer to the conjunction - thus with the quincunx there may be more of a sense of two functions in relation to one another, while with the semisextile there may be less awareness of the relationship. With this in mind, there may be some basis for Tyl's suggestion that the 165 aspect stands out amidst those 15 degree aspects which are not accounted for by more fundamental harmonics. So apologies for the dismissal of this idea in a previous post on this thread. Still, we would expect the other multiples to be significant, too - the 105 degree aspect is closer to the opposition than the square, for example.
And it is worth briefly noting that waxing and waning aspects are different in meaning in some ways. So there is a waxing 165 degree aspect and a waning 165 degree aspect.
Another point that is worth noting is that when we venture beyond the traditional aspects in order to fine tune our interpetations, there is a mass of data available. Other higher harmonic aspects, midpoints and lunation phase are all as worthy of attention as the 165 degree aspect. Its easy to attribute a character trait to a relatively insignificant feature of the natal chart, when in fact there is a more significant feature which accounts for the trait. This especially a danger when large orbs are used - for any aspect, even a conjunction or opposition.
As for the 165 degree aspect itself, the only way I know to interpret it is to consider the numbers of which its harmonic is a product. This is a 24th harmonic aspect so we can see it as the product of 8 and 3, or a product of 4 and 6. In the former case, it is the product of a sesquiquadrate and a trine, and in the latter case, it is the product of a square and a sextile. The first way of looking at it is probably clearer because it keeps the 2s separate from the 3s.
The sesquiquadrate is more 'automatic' than the square in the way it expresses. The tension inherent in the energies flows more readily - there is less of a tendency to resist. The square is just one step away from the opposition, which can manifest as a stalemate. With the square, there is more of a sense of urgency around using the energies together, but the potential for things to stall is still there. And then with the sesquiquadrate (and also the semisquare - the other 8th harmonic aspect), things manifest without so much interference from the native's conscious deliberations.
The trine is the aspect of innate understanding of how two principles work together. So we would expect the 24th harmonic to represent the an innate understanding of the processes of manifestation. I'm not sure what we would actually do with such understanding, though. Where 2 meets 3 in the sextile aspect, it is clear that although two-ness brings the potential for manifestation, it also brings the potential for polarisation, and so when we bring in three-ness we have an understanding of how to get into a steady rhythm of manifestation. But where 8 meets 3 in the 165 degree aspect, the process of manifestation has more of a 'life of its own' and its not obvious to me how the insight of three-ness would improve this process.
When we consider the aspect cycle, we see that the opposition is the point at which the two factors are attuned to one another in such a way that the relationship between self and other becomes more apparent. We might expect the waxing 165 degree aspect to bring awareness of how one is manifesting as an individual in final preparation for participation in a world of 'others', and the waning 165 degree aspect to bring awareness of how one is beginning to manifest one's social ideals.
In any case, when looking at aspects and configurations, the important thing is the natures of the factors involved. Venus Mercury Uranus is always Venus Mercury Uranus - its the same combination of functions. What changes is the harmonic frequency on which they are attuned to one another. In the 6th harmonic chart, these three planets would probably form a tight T square. So we can interpret it as a T square, but then keep in mind that we are working in the 6th harmonic. Similarly, we could look at the configuration in a 3rd, 4th or 8th harmonic chart.
So perhaps the Mercury Venus Uranus configuration in your chart is about having insight (3) into the way in which visions of truth and humanitarian concerns (Uranus) can find purposeful expression (8) through the way you connect with (Mercury and Venus, and the fact that we are discussing 165 aspects, rather than, say, 105 or 75). Or to try to put it into a less contrived sentence, perhaps when you connect with others, it is like you are conducting Uranian energy, which potential awakens both you and the other to some truth, with this possibly happening at a very subtle level which isn't necessarily obvious. I would encourage you to look at transits to the points I mentioned in a previous post on this thread, because these are times when you are more likely to see obvious expressions of this configuration.