Why Sun And Moon Rule Only One House Each In Traditional Astrology Today

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
7917e911b46b943b4779f414c002e8bc--astrology-stars-the-planets.jpg



As illustrated


Sun alone determines Day
Sun is NEVER visible at night
and
Sun rules a Day time house
because
Sun is visible ONLY during Day :smile:



Unlike Sun
Moon IS visible at night
ONLY because Moon REFLECTS light of Sun :smile:

and so

Moon rules a night time house
because
even if
Moon at certain phases MAY BE visible during Day
however
even an almost full moon is nothing close to the brightness of sun
Sun outshines Moon during Day :smile:






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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
*



Ancient Hellenistic astrologers based their concept of SECT
on THE TWO LIGHTS

aka

Sun and Moon



Sun alone determines Day
Sun is NEVER visible at night
Sun is visible ONLY during Day :smile:


Moon IS visible at night
ONLY because Moon REFLECTS light of Sun :smile:
Moon at certain phases MAY BE visible during Day
however
is nothing close to the brightness of sun



Think about the word "...Sect...." and its connotations
as BobZemco said:
A Sect is comparable to a Faction
which is a group of people acting together
within a larger group
such as a clan, a clique, a cabal, a bloc
for example the East Bloc: a faction, a sect, sub-set of Europe
i.e.
a band of people, a crew and so on


Astrology is based on ordered hierarchies
like charts
and then groups of Planets
such as
the Nocturnal Planets
and
the Diurnal Planets

the Masculine Planes
and
the Feminine Planes


the Cold Planets
and
the Hot Planets, and so on.



SECT has two factions:


the Diurnal Planets are the Day Crew
the Day Shift
the Day Cabal
the Day Bloc
the Day Clan and so on


and

the Nocturnal Planets are the Night Crew
Night Shift
Night Cabal
Night Bloc
Night Clan and so on.



Note that each Faction has A LIGHT:

Sun for Day
Moon for Night
and
because of that, they have different conditions to meet.



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Bunraku

Well-known member
They don't. They are the King and Queen of the heaven. Zodiacally (I coined this term today) one rules the masculine half and the other rules the feminine half. :devil:
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
*



SECT is linked to natal location of Sun and Moon in a chart :smile:
because
SECT is determined by
whether chart is
a Day chart
or
a Night chart

INTERESTINGLY

Manilius composed his ASTRONOMICA
the oldest surviving complete book of Hellenistic astrology
in the 1st century CE
and noted (Book II, lines 203-222)
a diversity of opinion regarding the sect of the signs. :smile:

MANILIUS himself actually favored
a sect classification that is no longer used by traditional astrologers.
"...Fail not to perceive and from true rule deduce
what signs are nocturnal, and what diurnal:
they are not those that perform their function in darkness
or daylight (the name would apply to all alike
since at regular intervals they shine at every house
and now the nocturnal ones accompany the day
and now the nocturnal ones accompany the night)
but those on which nature, mighty parent of the universe
bestowed sacred portions of time in a permanent location.

The signs of the Archer and the fierce Lion
he who looks round on the golden fleece of his back [Aries],
then the Fishes and the Crab and the Scorpion of stinging lash
signs either adjacent or spaced at equal intervals
are all under like estate termed diurnal.

The others, identical in number
and in the pattern of their spacing
for they are inserted into as many places, are called nocturnal
[i.e. there are six of them opposite the six diurnal signs
and with the same pattern]
.
Some have also asserted that the diurnal stations [signs]
belong to the six consecutive stars [signs] which begin with the Ram
and that the six from the Balance [Libra] count as nocturnal.

There are those that fancy that the masculine signs are diurnal
and that the feminine class rejoices in the safe cover of darkness.
Goold trans., 1977, p.
99-101



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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
*


Planets in SECT are not essentially dignified
but they are more helpful and less harmful :smile:

In the case of the lesser malefic MARS
and
the greater malefic SATURN
both are less malefic when in sect
than they would otherwise be when not in sect.

and
similarly

lesser benefic VENUS
and
greater benefit JUPITER
are both more benefic when in sect
than they would otherwise be when not in sect



So, it's a helpful versus harmful placement. :smile:




.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
*




Sun is Leader of the Day Sect aka Faction :smile:


Moon is Leader of the Night Sect aka Faction



.....about sect, I do think it is of great relevance.

Sect is based on the concept of day(masculine) and night(femenine) as mossadrai stated, and its one of the core principles in which astrology is founded. This principle classifies signs into 2 distinct sets: diurnal signs (fire and air) and nocturnl signs (water and earth).

- Diurnal planets (Sun, Jupiter, Saturn) are by default out of sect in every nocturnal chart.
- Nocturnal planets (Moon, Venus, Mars) are by default out of sect in every diurnal chart.
- Mercury belongs to the diurnal sect if it rises as a morning star, and of the nocturnal sect if it sets as an evening star.

You may also notice that diurnal planets rule diurnal(male) triplicity signs, and nocturnal planets rule nocturnal(female) triplicity signs. Sect in itself derives into the reason as to why "trines" and "sextiles" are generally seen as "easy" aspects because they unite planets in signs of the same sect.

The part about the in-sect planets being above the horizon is the explanation to the concept of Hayz, in which a planet is better suited when above the horizon, and in a sign of its own sect. The implication is that the planets can express its qualities better this way, because the 7th-12th axis is connected to the exterior world. Consider that most of the more powerful and weak houses are all on this axis except for the "1st" house (7th/10th/11th an 8th/12th). Being in a sign of its own sect also makes the qualities of the planet better expressed, because the planet combines well with the sign.

I consider the principle of sect of great importance in chart reading even today. It provides information relevant to the planet.

For example, when we judge a problematic chart we always look at the out of sect malefic, which has the most potential for trouble on the chart, Saturn for night charts, and Mars for diurnal charts. The same applies for the benefic planets when looking for favourable placements, with Jupiter being particularly benefic in diurnal charts, and Venus being particularly benefic in nocturnal charts. A trine or sextile from a planet to your in sect benefic is considered a very good placement. A square or opposition to your out of sect malefic is considered a very bad placement.

Personally I do use the concept of sect, heavily in birth charts because it is the core stone of astrological principle. Pretty much every astrological concept is derived from sect.
...............
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
I would thought Cancer would rule the sun in the first month of the northern hemisphere summer, but traditional astrologers (and all versions) agreed the sign Cancer only rules the moon. Leo is in the second and hotter month of the summer season here in Asia, Europe and North America. Some ancient tribal religions and cultures believed the moon is male, but because of menstruation follows a 29-day cycle in women's bodies, they attributed female reproduction to the moon with it's 29-day lunar cycle not in sync with the 365-day solar year.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Sun is Leader of the Day Sect aka Faction :smile:

Moon is Leader of the Night Sect aka Faction
The Sun’s nature is to select
The Moon’s nature is to gather and include



The Planets
in each Faction/Sect

operate best when they are similarly situated :smile:

i.e.
Day Planets are Above Earth with the Sun
in Masculine Signs/Houses


Night Planets are Below Earth in a Day Chart
but Above Earth in a Night Chart
and
in Feminine Signs/Houses.


Diurnal aka Day Planets like to be in Diurnal Signs
which are the same thing as Masculine Signs.


Nocturnal Planets aka Night Planets like to be in Nocturnal Signs
which is the same thing as Feminine Signs



.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
*


SUN is closely linked to the determination of SECT



Sun
is not automatically in-Sect in a Day Chart.
Sect doctrine often is confusing for beginners :smile:

SUN is in-Sect

only if one of the following conditions is met:


1 Sun in 10th, 11th or 12th Houses = Masculine Quadrant

2 If Sun does not meet condition 1
then
Sun must be in the 7th or 9th Houses
which

although in the Feminine Quadrant
BUT
those HOUSES are MASCULINE.



3 If Sun is in 8th House
then Sun must be in a Masculine Sign.



.





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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
*



Sun rules day, Moon rules night :smile:




Moon completes sidereal cycles with 27.32166 days and anomalistic cycles with 27.55454 days.

Ascending Node completes retreating sidereal cycles with 18.61295 years.
Moon is moistening and moderately heating, benefic, feminine and nocturnal. Moon makes those born under her white, with fine figure, beautiful eyes, having excess of moist. Moon controls life, light, kingship, the household, high priesthood, affluence, gathering of the masses, foresight, the body, travel, fortune, appearance, outcomes, possessions, cohabitation, housekeeping, gains and expenditures, cities, assemblies, ships, the mother and the conception, the respiratory system, the upper gastrointestinal tract, the eyesight, especially the left eye, glass and reflection, silver, white colours and salty tastes. It is chronocrator over infancy up to the 4th year.


Sun completes sidereal cycles with 365.25636 days and anomalistic cycles with 365.25963 days.
Sun is heating and moderately drying, common, masculine and diurnal. Sun makes those born under him with brightness, fine figure and manly eyes, having excess of hot. Sun controls action, light, kingship, leadership, high priesthood, reputation, authority over the masses, high rank, the mind, motion, loftiness of fortune, dealings with the gods, judgement, providence, friendship, the father, public matters, honours consisting of images, statues and garlands, the circulatory system, the nervous system, the eyesight, especially the right eye, wheat and barley, gold, bright colours and bitter tastes. It is chronocrator over early adulthood up to the 41st year.



Bibliography:
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/home.html
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
*




I already posted it on skyscript, but I will post it here as well :smile:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10059


First, the Old Astrologers set up the birth chart of the world as following - The Ascendant and the Moon at the 15th degree of Cancer, the Sun at the 15th degree of Leo, Mercury at the 15th degree of Virgo, Venus at the 15th degree of Libra, Mars at the 15th degree of Scorpio, Jupiter at the 15th degree of Sagittarius and Saturn at the 15th degree of Capricorn. The degrees are preserved by Firmicus Maternus and some of them by Paulus Alexandrinus.

They assigned them such, because of the order of the spheres, the twelve images that underlie them and the summer solstice at the 15th degree of Cancer. Thus they put the ascendant and the Moon at the summer solstice in the middle of Cancer and Saturn and the descendant at the winter solstice in the middle of Capricorn. Aries and Libra are clearly equinoctial, while Cancer and Capricorn are clearly tropical.

They assigned the rest of the domiciles and spheres of influence the same for the rest of the signs in the order of the seven-zone sphere of Nechepso and Petosiris.

Then they or their successors put the exaltation of the Sun in Aries at the Midheaven, for there the day starts to increase over the night at the 15th degree and spring commences, the sign is of the royal triplicity, trine to Leo and is quadrupedal. They put the exaltation of the Sun at the 19th degree for that is the number of the years of the Sun which itself is derived from the Enneadecaeteris. Each star has its depression at the point in opposition to its exaltation. The depression shows adherence (3 degree range) with the exaltation of Saturn.

Then they put the exaltation of the Moon in Taurus for it is sextile to Cancer and: since the moon, coming to the conjunction in the exaltation of the sun, in Aries, shows her first phase and begins to increase her light and, as it were, her height, in the first sign of her own triangle, Taurus, this was called her exaltation, and the diametrically opposite sign, Scorpio, her depression. - Robbins, F. E. (1940). Tetrabiblos (Vol. 435). Loeb Classical Library.
Venus and Mars “depress” both luminaries because the sun has its exaltation in Aries and its depression in Libra, where it causes the day to become shorter. The moon has its exaltation in Taurus and its depression in Scorpio, where it causes the cosmic disappearance of light. - Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley.
They put the exaltation of the Moon at the 3rd degree, for there, in relation to the exaltation degree of the Sun, the Moon shows her first phase and becomes increasing in light. This became known as the concept of the loosing of the bond in chapter 38 of the Thesaurus in Antiochus of Athens. Similarly, Valens does not allow the Moon as Predominator if he is under the beams (15 degrees range) or in Scorpio. The depression shows the cosmic disappearance of light.

Then they put the exaltation of Saturn in Libra, for there the day starts to decrease to the night at the 15th degree and autumn commences, the sign is of the same triplicity as Aquarius. They put the exaltation of Saturn at the 21st degree of Libra for there Saturn strikes the Sun with a ray within 3 degrees, which is destructive unless a benefic intervenes. The depression also shows presence with the Sun, which is worse.

Then they put the exaltation of Jupiter in Cancer, of the prolific triplicity, trine to Pisces, also watery, at the longest day and where he strikes with a ray the Sun and the Moon. The latter lead to the increased range for striking with a ray - with the Moon of 13 degrees (average day speed), present in Porphyry. The depression shows presence with Mars.

Then they put the exaltation of Mars in Capricorn, for there the day is shortest at the 15th degree and is sextile to Scorpio and square to the Sun. They put the exaltation degree at the 28th for then the malefics besiege a 7 degrees range in Aries, which led to the origin of the concept of containment which requires 7 degrees according to Antiochus. Jupiter does not intervene for the square ray of Mars. The depression also shows the same affliction for the Sun.

Then they put the exaltation of Venus in Pisces, for it also is nocturnal planet and is also sextile to Taurus. Furthermore She is a morning star there and Pisces is a prolific sign compared to Virgo. They put the exaltation degree at the 27th for then it is 12 degrees away from trine ray of Jupiter. The Moon and Venus are moved by 12 degrees from their original placements and are 18 degrees away from the spring equinox. The rays that are considered intervening in the length of life are 12 for Jupiter and 8 for Venus (related to the Egyptian years).

Then they left the exaltation of Mercury in Virgo at the 15th degree, for it is the original Thema Mundi placement, and only there can the Sun be in its domicile. Mercury has no sect so it does not have its exaltation in sextile or trine. Mute Pisces is opposite it.

Balbilus uses the 129 years of the planets along with the 128 exaltation degrees with his time lord technique. The Egyptian years of the Moon are derived from a phase, and the years of the other 5 stars are derived from their relation to the Sun, as was the rationale for the exaltation signs and degrees.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
*


Moon's primary signification first and foremost is Change :smile:

or

Instability.
Aha, see, that's what was I was talking about.

The texts don't make it clear, but it's actually Transiting Moon.

Remember that Age Rulers shift, so Moon rules the first 4 years, then passes the baton to Mercury, then Venus, Sun and so on through the end of life.

The theory behind that revolves (no pun intended) on the Moon being the Age Ruler for infants/toddlers. The specific days selected for viewing are based largely on biology and medicine.

Then, as now, if the infant isn't feeding by the 3rd Day, there's a medical issue. By the 7th Day, the infant should be in a regular cycle of feeding and sleeping and feeding and sleeping....ad infinitum...and if not, then a medical issue. Somewhere around Day 40, the infant's eyes should have adjusted from everything-is-one-gigantic-blurry-mess to there's-lots-and-lots of-blurry-fuzzy-things-and-some-are-shiny...meaning the infant should be grabbing/reaching for things, and reacting to stimuli such as light, movement and sound. If not, then there's a potential problem.

Okay, so we're looking at the exact Longitude of Transiting Moon on the 3rd Day (Day 4 of Infant's Life), the 7th Day (Day 8) and the 40th Day (Day 41) against the Natal Chart.

It isn't so much what we want to see, rather it's what we don't want to see on those 3 select days. We don't want to see Moon joined with Mars and/or Saturn in Cancer in a Cadent Sign. We don't want to see Moon Combust in a Cadent Sign --- although Cazimi Moon would be good. We don't want to see Moon in a Cadent Sign with Mars/Saturn, or in square/opposition to Mars/Saturn, and if that is the case, then we would want to see Jupiter, Venus or Sun in trine with Moon by Sign, or Jupiter/Venus square by Sign. We don't want to see Moon in a Cadent Sign and besieged by Malefics.

Again, this is a very generic technique to estimate the health of the Native.

I should point out that people failing to understand these concepts simply assumed that 1 Day = 1 Year of the Native's life, and then applied that to a new technique called Secondary Progressions. Anyone wondering why Secondary Progressions don't work, now you know why.

I'll try to kill 50 birds with one small pebble here.

If anyone intends to buy classical music, listen to a sample of it first, before buying. Musical works are subject to interpretation, and not every conductor of every symphony is sane. Nowhere is that more true than with Carl Orff's Cantiones Profanes --- the Profane Songs -- aka Carmina Burana.

Granted, music is highly subjective, but a recording that everyone may enjoy is the Philadelphia Symphony with the Rutger's University Choir...and I mention that since that is the recording most commonly used in film scores...and so probably the version you're all most familiar with...and you'd be gravely disappointed to spend money and not hear what you thought you heard.

The opening lines in the score are these...

O Fortuna
velut luna
statu variabilis,
semper crescis
aut decrescis;
vita detestabilis
nunc obdurat
et tunc curat
ludo mentis aciem,
egestatem,
potestatem
dissolvit ut glaciem.

That's Latin, and Holden would translate it like this...

O Fortune,
like moon
you change states,
ever waxing
and waning;
hateful life
first oppresses
and then soothes
as fancy takes it;
poverty
and power
it melts them like ice.

Dykes would translate it as such...

Fortune!
Like the Moon
[constantly] changing phases,
always increasing [in light]
or decreasing [in light];
Detesting life!
First oppressing [life]
then soothing...
and [all] on a whim;
Melting poverty
and power
as though
they were [made of] ice.

Verbatim translations may be technically and grammatically correct, and Academicians might fawn and drool over them, but they are not linguistically correct: Ma-duc acasa...Holden = Me take at home; Dykes = I'm going home.

When purchasing texts, people might want to bear that in mind.

Anyway, regarding the significations of the Planets, the Moon's primary signification first and foremost is Change.....or Instability.

How do you know which is which?

Apply the Simple Rule: "
Planet, Sign, House, always."

The Planet is Moon; Moon will either be domiciled (in Cancer or Exalted in Taurus), exiled (in Capricorn or in Fall in Scorpio) or Peregrine; and Moon will be Angular, Succeedent or Cadent.

Cadent Signs/Houses are falling away from the Angles: 12th is being pushed over the hill by the Ascendant, not the MC. The MC has pushed the 9th Sign/House over. The 7th has pushed away the 6th, and the 4th Sign/House has forced the 3rd Sign/House over the cliff.

So Cadent Houses signify things that have ended or changed, and Moon in a Cadent House intensifies that, since Moon is about Change, or Instability.

That does not mean other Planets cannot suggest Change, they can, but unlike the other Planets, Moon indicates very rapid change....like the kind of change you'd see in an infant, right?

So, then, what would a Cadent distressed Moon on one of those 3 days signify? It signifies instability for the worse, while a Cadent Moon in good condition indicates positive change for the better.

Likewise, Succeedent Moons indicate a continuation of things, while an Angular Moon suggests starting something new, a new beginning or or something like that.

Why does Moon Joy in the 3rd House? Because it is Below Earth and Cadent and represents Change/Instability. Moon in 3rd increases the power of the Moon to act, but doesn't alter it's condition in the House, and since the 3rd Sign/House is Cadent to the 4th Sign/House and the 4th Sign/House is opposite the 10th House, well, there you go.


Since the Ascendant tells us about the Native, what would you say about Cancer-rising Moon in 3rd? That would be a Virgo Moon. Mercury rules Virgo. Are Mercury and Moon Planetary Friends? No, they are Planetary Enemies.

While I'm on the subject of Ascendants and Joys, Ascendant Ruler in the 6th Sign/House is what? A slave for the most part....literally...except when the Ascendant Ruler is also domiciled in the 6th Sign/House, or when Aries rises and Mars is rejoicing in the 6th Sign/House.

Taurus-rising with a 6th House Libra Venus. What is that?

6th House is what? Work? No, people, wrong answer. The 6th House is Service.

Venus signifies what? Love? No, people, sorry, wrong answer. Venus signifies the love of people....the love of Humanity.

So...then....Taurus-rising 6th House Libra Venus is service-oriented to Humanity.....I'm guessing people have a real difficult time figuring out the 10th House Aquarius thing.....and the meaning of "trine"....and whirled peas.

Mars signifies "things Martial."

Scorpio-rising 6th House Aries Mars is going to be protecting/defending Taurus-rising 6th House Libra Venus, so that Venus can perform her vital humanitarian mission, whatever that might be.

And why would Mars do that? I don't know....."trine" anyone? How about Triplicity? If Aries is the 6th Sign, then what Sign is the 10th? Leo.

And who rules Leo?

Sun.

And amongst it's significations is power, authority and government.

What then can we say about Cancer-rising 6th House Sagittarius Jupiter?

Jupiter doesn't rule Cancer. Okay, very good, but Cancer is one of the domiciles of Jupiter, since Jupiter is Exalted in Cancer.

Libra-rising, 6th Sign/House Pisces Venus is going to be different, since Cancer is the 10th Sign (that's the trine thing again).

Just thought I'd mention that since people struggle delineating Vocation. Stupid nonsense on the internet doesn't help; people make it harder than it must be ignoring the meanings of Planets; the texts really aren't all that great; and then let's face it, most of the example charts floating around are for politicians, musicians, entertainers, athletes and such, and not for truck drivers, ditch diggers, clerks, warehouse workers, firemen, managers, fast-food workers, or the wipers of other people's bottoms.

I hope that clarifies things a wee bit.
 

waybread

Well-known member
The sun and moon rule signs, not houses. However, the sun joys in the 9th house and the moon joys in the third house.
 

waybread

Well-known member
JA, Are you familiar with the book Hellenistic Astrology by Chris Brennan? He's got a lot on "original" ancient Greek names for houses and signs, and they can lend themselves to some confusion in English translation until one reads what was actually meant in the ancient texts. See, for example, Brennan on topoi, or "places."

Don't forget that the majority of major house systems in use today were developed during traditional astrology's hey day.

I have no doubt that whole signs were the primary ancient system of house division, but don't forget:

Porphyry (233-305 CE)
Equal (Unclear who was first: Ptolemy gives it in one technique in Tetrabiblos.)
Alcabitius (Al-Qabisi, d.967)
Campanus (1220-1296)
Regiomontanus (1436-1476)
Morinus (1583-1656)
Placidus(1603-1668)

Regiomontanus is noteworthy as the principle system of houses preferred by (traditional) horary astrologers.

Astrologers realized from ancient times through the twilight of traditional astrology in the 18th century that there was more sophistication to get to in the division of cosmic space and time than whole signs permitted.

Part of the problem anciently was the lack of reliable clocks for time-keeping, but when clocks improved in the European Middle Ages, traditional astrologers appreciated the greater sensitivity of house cusps afforded by some of the quadrant systems.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
Sect is a simple concept to understand.

The AC-DC axis is the horizon. When the sun is above the horizon, it's daytime. When the sun is below the horizon, it isn't.

Sect is more than just the sun and moon however. These planets are in-sect during the day:

Sun, Jupiter, Saturn (The greater benefic and greater malefic.)

These planets are in sect at night:

moon, Venus, Mars (The lesser benefic and lesser malefic.)

But an in-sect planet is strengthened if if appears above the horizon.

Mercury has no inherent sect. If Mercury is oriental (precedes the sun in rising or setting,) it belongs to the day sect. If Mercury is occidental (follows the sun,) it belongs to the night sect.

Sect is an "accidental" dignity, meaning that it is not an essential dignity intrinsic to the planet's position in a sign, such as a domicile or exaltation. Other accidental dignities would be if a planet is angular (in the 1st, 10th, 7th, or 4th house,) and if it is in a favorable relationship to a benefic.

However, sect also gives day and night rulers to the signs. These essential dignities are called triplicities. A planet in its own triplicity is also strengthened. For example,

The sun is the day ruler of the fire signs, while Jupiter is their night ruler.

Venus is the day ruler of the earth signs, while the moon is their night ruler.

Saturn is the day ruler of the air signs, while Mercury is their night ruler.

Interestingly, Mars is both the day and night ruler of the water signs.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html

So, for example, Saturn is currently in the air sign of Aquarius, where it is domiciled. During the day, it is also in its own triplicity. So a day chart would put Saturn in an extra-strong position.

You will notice that the first linked chart gives "houses of the planets" according to Ptolemy, which gets a little confusing, because if you read his Tetrabiblos, you can see that he meant what we call signs. Ditto if you simply know that Mars rules Aries, Venus rules Taurus, and so on.

The houses as we know them (1-12) have no planetary rulers in traditional astrology. It's not a by-the-numbers system. (See Deborah Houlding, Houses: Temples of the Sky.)

The D and N (day and night) rulerships in the second column simply situate fire and air signs as day signs, and earth and water as night signs. (Elsewhere these are called masculine and feminine signs.) By this reckoning, today's Saturn in Aquarius again gets a little boost in a day chart.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
We cannot really conflate signs and houses even in a traditional whole signs house system, because the "dial" is going to vary depending upon the rising sign. With Cancer rising, for example, we don't get a by-the-numbers ordering of signs and houses. We get the first house with the 4th sign.

I don't know if it's worth getting into signs of long and short ascension. Just that signs take different periods of time to rise above the horizon, unless you're at the equator.

The whole signs chart gives the impression of the day divided into 12 equal blocks of 2 hours each, but actually, due to the earth's tilt on its axis, the signs take different periods of time to completely rise above the horizons. (The ancient Greeks worked this out using spherical geometry.)

Then see the current thread by Ecliptique on the problems of reading charts for people born at very high latitudes at certain times of year. This is just a basic question of lengths of day and night varying with latitude.

So a planet might be in-sect in a low latitude in winter, for example, but if you go much further north, that situation could change because it gets dark earlier at high latitudes.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
JA, Are you familiar with the book Hellenistic Astrology by Chris Brennan? He's got a lot on "original" ancient Greek names for houses and signs, and they can lend themselves to some confusion in English translation until one reads what was actually meant in the ancient texts. See, for example, Brennan on topoi, or "places."

Don't forget that the majority of major house systems in use today were developed during traditional astrology's hey day.

I have no doubt that whole signs were the primary ancient system of house division, but don't forget:

Porphyry (233-305 CE)
Equal (Unclear who was first: Ptolemy gives it in one technique in Tetrabiblos.)
Alcabitius (Al-Qabisi, d.967)
Campanus (1220-1296)
Regiomontanus (1436-1476)
Morinus (1583-1656)
Placidus(1603-1668)

Regiomontanus is noteworthy as the principle system of houses preferred by (traditional) horary astrologers.

Astrologers realized from ancient times through the twilight of traditional astrology in the 18th century that there was more sophistication to get to in the division of cosmic space and time than whole signs permitted.

Part of the problem anciently was the lack of reliable clocks for time-keeping, but when clocks improved in the European Middle Ages, traditional astrologers appreciated the greater sensitivity of house cusps afforded by some of the quadrant systems.
Nevertheless on this thread
the discussion is relative to WHOLE SIGN HOUSES :smile:


by all means commence your own thread on quadrant houses






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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
*



with the exception of the two luminaries Sun and Moon :smile:
the remaining five classical planets
traditionally have dual rulerships

Diurnal, Masculine
and
Nocturnal, Feminine domiciles.



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waybread

Well-known member
Anyone who wants to use whole signs houses is welcome to use whole sign houses. But determination of planetary sect is independent of them. You just have to locate the AC/DC axis.

Regiomontanus, developed during the Middle Ages, happens to be preferred house system among traditional horary astrologers, who claim it gives more accurate results.

I just don't want you to lead people astray, JA, with misleading information.

Nothing in your thread title or OP restricts the discussion to whole signs houses.
 

waybread

Well-known member
JA, you are wedded to whole signs houses. That's clear. But nothing in your thread title or OP makes other traditional house systems off topic.

This board is for traditional western astrology. It is not restricted to Hellenistic astrology. Which so far as that goes included:

1. equal houses (see Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos)

2. Porphyry (233-305 CE)

3. simple descriptions of planets' angularity or falling away from the angles with no emphasis on house cusps.

Do you own a copy of Chris Brennan's Hellenistic Astrology? Highly recommended.

By all means, stick with whole signs if they ring your chimes. But you cannot with integrity insist on them as the only traditional system-- or even as the only Hellenistic system.

You're not going to change traditional astrology by denying the existence of other respected traditional house systems. You're simply going to look like you haven't studied other systems.
 
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