Lilith aspects to moon
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Frisiangal
Well-known member
Hi,
It depends upon to which Lilith you are referring; the asteroid, or one of the calculated points of Moon's apogee and its relationship to Earth.
I have long studied the position and effect of MEAN Black Moon called Lilith (BML), shown on astro. com charts, and the traits you mentioned have been observed to be accurate.
It depends upon to which Lilith you are referring; the asteroid, or one of the calculated points of Moon's apogee and its relationship to Earth.
I have long studied the position and effect of MEAN Black Moon called Lilith (BML), shown on astro. com charts, and the traits you mentioned have been observed to be accurate.
bubuza_dulce
Well-known member
I have a friend who has all Liliths conjunct more or less the Moon (Dark Moon Lilith is the closest but BML also) and then BML is close conjunct Chiron in the 8th in Gemini.
In her case Chiron plays an important part also. But she is terribly wounded by her mother and she still needs her love and appreciation which she doesn't get.
She has had a very abusive sexual life also but mostly of her choosing.
I read somewhere that Lilith conjunct Moon gives a woman big breasts, like the "super female" type. My friend had them little so she put on implants and now she has them big! in a way it makes sense, with Chiron there (the "wounds") in the 8th house of surgery and Lilith/Moon - she doesn't accept her feminity.
Her BML opposes retro Saturn also, in the 2nd.
here's a link for BML:
http://www.astrotherapy.eu/BlackMoon.htm
In her case Chiron plays an important part also. But she is terribly wounded by her mother and she still needs her love and appreciation which she doesn't get.
She has had a very abusive sexual life also but mostly of her choosing.
I read somewhere that Lilith conjunct Moon gives a woman big breasts, like the "super female" type. My friend had them little so she put on implants and now she has them big! in a way it makes sense, with Chiron there (the "wounds") in the 8th house of surgery and Lilith/Moon - she doesn't accept her feminity.
Her BML opposes retro Saturn also, in the 2nd.
here's a link for BML:
http://www.astrotherapy.eu/BlackMoon.htm
Frisiangal
Well-known member
This is what I wrote down this morning but decided not to include in case you were referring to the asteroid, and saved anyway.
Black Moon Lilith itself is not a physical object and can refer to active yet, too often, unexpressed feelings.
Moon-MEAN BML has been observed to say a lot about the deep inner sense of 'not belonging anywhere', which can find its source with, for whatever reason, an emotional non-bonding and disconnection with the biological mother. It is the 'deep inner yearning' FOR connection that inclines the BML part of the individual, that often finds a correlation with the experiences of the child (within), to turn away from anything that could even vaguely involve and activate the emotional hurt experienced from
physical rejection.
BML-Moon can represent a positive or negative 'image' one has of the biological mother, according to sign position it holds and aspects it makes. If negative of nature, the individual should take care that 'the inner demons' of misguided thoughts, feelings and actions with which one lives, do not create images that have no bearing to, or can create havoc in reality. The aspects to other planets may show how BML reveals itself.
I've also seen many charts where BML to Moon has correlated to situations with a surrogate mother, who can take the negative form of the 'wicked stepmother', institutional carer, religious keeper, etc.. But also the woman who takes on the motherly role in its most positive sense; who is seen as a caring angel on Earth with whom one feels emotionally secure.
QuaternityEagle
Well-known member
I guess it would really depend on the aspects, what sign Lilith is in the aspects it is making. It has already been mentioned once on this thread but I thought it worth repeating. The lilith figure is an interesting one, that's for certain. Her relationship to the Moon, specifically with the black moon lilith, is it represents an "empty womb." (I actually read that somewhere and can't remember but I kind of like the idea... it works for me when I try to understand Lilith.) The symbol of the Moon as it relates to women is that there is that "fertile crescent" or waxing crescent, that also is the shape the body begins to make when it is pregnant. Like, this picture pretty much captures what I'm trying to say:
So BML, where the moon is black, or in the shadows, is the absence of the womb, or maybe just symbolic of an empty, unused uterus, and that part of ourselves which may seek to be more sexual with the sensual emotive side of the moon, rather than creative, or reproductive. Lilith is kind representative like the Root chakra... form: http://rootchakra.net/
" The root chakra represents physical energy, vitality, being connected to the earth, material possessions, success in business and manifestations. It is associated with the color of red and is located at the base of the spine or tailbone. It is the energy that grounds us, connects us to the earth and empowers our self worth, it is also associated with our sexual energies."
So its, pretty earthy, about desiring for ourselves, feeling good... sexual without any other reason but to be sexual... so the "black moon" is thus like the desire to be almost, well, unemotional, but more, devoid of relationship to others except in the most basic, personal way. The womb of a woman serves the life of another so the black moon is about the part that's not about that part in our bodies (both men and women, since men desire sex for pleasure and not procreation as well). The other woman which I showed the picture of is more like the sacral chakra... creative, and located directly over the womb. from: http://howtoopenchakras.com/sacral-chakra/
"This particular chakra is in charge of a person’s sexual organs, lower portion of the spine, large intestines and the bladder. It also affects how your emotions are working, [...] as well as your ability to handle sexual relationships and how creative you may be. The sacral chakra helps you to learn how to make your own reality and can be affected by emotions like love, fear and hate." It's gott hat emotional element then, and a creative one.
LIke was said it goes back to how the BML is interacting with the moon... it could do stuff with your relationship with your mother, with other women, your sexuality... lots of things. If there was a square... I might wonder if this woman is conflicted about wanting to have children, or is presented with situations that make it so she has to pick between having them or not, and she may not want them.
Frisiangal
Well-known member
You might find that she is very susciptible to how/what she inwardly
thinks that people think and say about her. BML-Saturn has been observed to show great difficulties regarding acceptance of/feeling accepted by societal norms(Saturn). These would be attached to any 2nd house values she places upon herself. Any aspect to Chiron ( a physical object) does show the wounding by actual events. E.g. If someone of influence in her life said that she did not have the mental intelligence she was born with, and she accepted it as so, even with a degree in kwantum physics, she would base her life upon and through the 'false image' of herself presented by BML, rather than seeing herself as she positively is, or could be, ....an intelligent woman with ideas that are not in agreement with societal norms!.
According to other aspects BML makes, there could be a lot of secrecy(8th house) that she chooses not to reveal....or deny....or admit to.
The 'falsies' idea of Moon-BML is an interesting one. Thank you. Implants that give a false impression of reality. Any Neptune aspects?
Transplants...physical removal and replacement.... would generally see a Pluto influence.
bubuza_dulce
Well-known member
bubuza_dulce
Well-known member
How funny is that? I thought about my friend and I forgot about myself!
I have BML conjunct Saturn (and wider conjunct Jupiter) in Virgo, intercepted in the 6th and.... opposing Moon in Pisces (at 2 degrees orb)!
Talking about interceptions being harder to get to... I even forgot about it!
What could that mean? Moon in Pisces already speaks about the mother not being "available".
I have BML conjunct Saturn (and wider conjunct Jupiter) in Virgo, intercepted in the 6th and.... opposing Moon in Pisces (at 2 degrees orb)!
Talking about interceptions being harder to get to... I even forgot about it!
What could that mean? Moon in Pisces already speaks about the mother not being "available".
QuaternityEagle
Well-known member
It's seems like the hard aspects of Lilith to planets can mean a woman is subjected to the negatives of being female... like, their femininity somehow works against them and makes them defenseless, at least in their experience in this life. they are wounded by their femininity but also sexuality too because Chiron is there is in this case. its a sad tale.
I have never heard of the lilith-super-female combo possibility that could be thought to result from certain aspects with lilith. I don't know a lot about lilith but i do know that the ancient sumerians who first described/created her made her much different than she is understood today. so it could result in widely differing interpretations because of this schism. she's important for sure though. i have definitely always thought that. just always curious how... because well quite frankly the story ofher has been so adulterated i wouldn't know how to create an interpretation of her in the natal chart without going back to the most original source. eh... i'm just complaining. lilith is definitely complex and worthy to note i just don't know precisely how.
I guess I sometimes wonder if Lilith is bad or good. Like, who is she? What does hse represent? I mean, I also say this because like for example, all of what you're saying in my opinion could be attributed to chiron. its the issue of "punishment and torture" connected to this wounding, that chiron cannot explain, since i would imagine the "wounds of chiron" symbolically speaking are supposed to be very dull in their pain, just something which lurks and shows up, like our basic insecurities about somehting/soul level afeared imperfections, but with the moon their with this one... jeez it could be her femininity becomes constantly tortured by the turning of the moon? I now it sounds crazy but just think about how much the moon impacts us on a daily basis, and in our solar progressed charts, and on the day of our birth and so on... Allso The moon's impact in our chart is supossedly connected to our unconscious... the unconscious sometimes to deal witht errible things, can not always block the terrible memories of these things coming back and torturing us. (like PTSD)
Eh, but you do make the interesting point that you say she chose the abusive relationships. Without being too probing, I'm curious what made you say she essentially, like, chose to beabused? I'm not denying the possibility I just want to know what makes you say that. Maybe that is the negative Lilith impact.
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bubuza_dulce
Well-known member
When I said "She has had a very abusive sexual life also but mostly of her choosing." I meant she was not forced into it.
She fell in love with a boy who gradually began to hurt her. He did not hold her captive, she just didn't go.
And, most of all, she chose to have sex with men in exchange for money.
I was there when it happened and I begged her not to do it but she thought it would be a good thing.
At a point she told me that she remembers me telling her that if she goes on that path she'll have mental health problems (I don't remember that) and she said that I was right and she cannot fix her mind after the things that happened to her.
But that's what I said - there were circumstances leading to that but she was not forced directly. She chose that path again and again.
Moon is apart from Chiron at 11 degrees, is not even a conjunction but I see it works as a conjunction. Her mental health is very unstable and her eating habits are affected. She tries not to eat at all, she thinks eating is bad and she had episodes of eating compulsively, being ashamed of it.
She talked about this with a psychiatrist and with some psychologists. She read self-help books until she came to loath them.
For now she is relatively stable except the eating part. She has indeed problems and I feel very sorry for her but it's like I'm talking to a wall. I can't reach her.
I thought her problems had a lot to do with Lilith because it is closer to the Moon than Chiron.
About what Frisiangal said - her hiding secrets about her sex life, well it's obvious only a few persons knew what she was doing. And her not accepting society roles - she began to hate society in general, she has a lot of envy, says mean things (Gemini - about communication) and since she cannot cope with her suffering it began to take control over her and transform her into something else than when I met her which was a wonderful human being.
She fell in love with a boy who gradually began to hurt her. He did not hold her captive, she just didn't go.
And, most of all, she chose to have sex with men in exchange for money.
I was there when it happened and I begged her not to do it but she thought it would be a good thing.
At a point she told me that she remembers me telling her that if she goes on that path she'll have mental health problems (I don't remember that) and she said that I was right and she cannot fix her mind after the things that happened to her.
But that's what I said - there were circumstances leading to that but she was not forced directly. She chose that path again and again.
Moon is apart from Chiron at 11 degrees, is not even a conjunction but I see it works as a conjunction. Her mental health is very unstable and her eating habits are affected. She tries not to eat at all, she thinks eating is bad and she had episodes of eating compulsively, being ashamed of it.
She talked about this with a psychiatrist and with some psychologists. She read self-help books until she came to loath them.
For now she is relatively stable except the eating part. She has indeed problems and I feel very sorry for her but it's like I'm talking to a wall. I can't reach her.
I thought her problems had a lot to do with Lilith because it is closer to the Moon than Chiron.
About what Frisiangal said - her hiding secrets about her sex life, well it's obvious only a few persons knew what she was doing. And her not accepting society roles - she began to hate society in general, she has a lot of envy, says mean things (Gemini - about communication) and since she cannot cope with her suffering it began to take control over her and transform her into something else than when I met her which was a wonderful human being.
QuaternityEagle
Well-known member
So sad...t errible really. I would consider Moon in orb of a conjunction w/ Chiron, here's why, http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspectorbs.html
Also, every story about Lilith from what I've heard is she resists men having any power over her... very defensive and protective. A conjunction from Lilith would be empowering... I kind of think Chiron is doing damage. Lilith is a questionable thing to consider anyway... Chiron I'm more comfortable with, no more on, got more credibility. Maybe she has "wounded pride about her femininity."
Bina
Well-known member
This is what I wrote down this morning but decided not to include in case you were referring to the asteroid, and saved anyway.
Black Moon Lilith itself is not a physical object and can refer to active yet, too often, unexpressed feelings.
Moon-MEAN BML has been observed to say a lot about the deep inner sense of 'not belonging anywhere', which can find its source with, for whatever reason, an emotional non-bonding and disconnection with the biological mother. It is the 'deep inner yearning' FOR connection that inclines the BML part of the individual, that often finds a correlation with the experiences of the child (within), to turn away from anything that could even vaguely involve and activate the emotional hurt experienced from
physical rejection.
BML-Moon can represent a positive or negative 'image' one has of the biological mother, according to sign position it holds and aspects it makes. If negative of nature, the individual should take care that 'the inner demons' of misguided thoughts, feelings and actions with which one lives, do not create images that have no bearing to, or can create havoc in reality. The aspects to other planets may show how BML reveals itself.
I've also seen many charts where BML to Moon has correlated to situations with a surrogate mother, who can take the negative form of the 'wicked stepmother', institutional carer, religious keeper, etc.. But also the woman who takes on the motherly role in its most positive sense; who is seen as a caring angel on Earth with whom one feels emotionally secure.
Thanks Frisiangal, I'm so glad you saved this, since it is very insightful and true!!
I have Lilith in my 12th house in Pisces- about 8 degrees behind the asc, it is very much hidden there, so at first i couldn't do anything with it..then also on first looks it seemed unaspected.. looking closer i found a loose trine to Jupiter in Gemini in the 4th house (4°Orb and out of sign trine), a sextile to Juno, and then an exact!!- by degree and minute- sesquiquadrate to my moon (which is intercepted in the 7th house/Libra). Lilith also closely semisquares Mercury (which is also intercepted in the first house/Aries, closely opposing the Moon--no other major aspects to this Moon/ Mercury opposition either).
So the whole thing is very hidden in my chart and it took me 25 years of astrology to discover it!! It feels important, although the aspect to the moon is a minor one, it is exact within 2 seconds, and the closest aspect in my entire chart.
What you said about emotional disconnection from the mother is very true for me, i was physically abandoned a lot as a child -this started when i was not even a few months old- and completely emotionally abandoned all throughout my childhood, since my mother was not at all able to be there for me. I grew up mostly taking care of myself, becoming very independent.. The whole thing was quite hidden though, it felt almost like a secret..
It seems to look different on the outside , some people actually think i may be close to my mother!!
Now I cannot connect emotionally to my mother at all , and i often wondered why? Astrologically i could only find the unaspected, intercepted moon- Mercury opposition, which didn't explain things completely, i felt something much deeper was going on...
Since discovering this Lilith aspect in my chart, it's starting to make sense. About 2 weeks ago Chiron transited my Lilith bringing up vast amounts of undefinable pain and i really wondered what's going on..so i started to look at Lilth more seriously in my chart. Some years ago when Uranus transited my Lilith was also a very difficult time.
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Frisiangal
Well-known member
Hi again Bina,
Thank you so much for your feedback which hit a few more nails on the head for my own BML study.
BML in Pisces AND in the 12th house is such a very sensitive position regarding feelings around 'non-existence', that further exploration of its meaning on a forum may not be wise. It is, however, a marvellous position for 'role playing'; taking on the guise of (s)he who does not really physically exist. BML does not need 'any body' to create a life within.
For myself, I divide the sesquiquadrate into a 90+45 degree aspect in the attempt to understand it
. 90* is the conflict/the challenge; 45*the additional effort put into it. It's likened to doing all one can and still seeing nothing from it (so why bother?); or taking up the challenge and seeing the effort finally rewarded. This might be the conflict you have always felt, with the aspect to Mercury adding the effort needed to bring those hidden feelings into the open and actually talk about it!
You may be aware that MEAN BML is now transiting Taurus. Other times it has been noticed to coincide with a period when 'facts' come to the surface. What one instinctively felt to be so turned out to be right. It may coincide with a time when you are able to put 2+2 together and come up with 4. Finally understanding cause and effect hit some nails on the head for my BML in Virgo, rather than adding more to the coffin.
I, too, have a 12th house BML, partile Asc. I underwent the 'initiation into inner cleansing' many years ago during a significant transit of BML into and through my 4th house.
As a matter of interest, are you of an age that coincides with menopause?
It seems for the older generations, for whom Moon and Saturn conditioning were part of life, that the Moon's significance with 'the change of life' gives Black Moon called Lilith the opportunity to surface in its own right.
Thank you so much for your feedback which hit a few more nails on the head for my own BML study.
BML in Pisces AND in the 12th house is such a very sensitive position regarding feelings around 'non-existence', that further exploration of its meaning on a forum may not be wise. It is, however, a marvellous position for 'role playing'; taking on the guise of (s)he who does not really physically exist. BML does not need 'any body' to create a life within.
For myself, I divide the sesquiquadrate into a 90+45 degree aspect in the attempt to understand it
. 90* is the conflict/the challenge; 45*the additional effort put into it. It's likened to doing all one can and still seeing nothing from it (so why bother?); or taking up the challenge and seeing the effort finally rewarded. This might be the conflict you have always felt, with the aspect to Mercury adding the effort needed to bring those hidden feelings into the open and actually talk about it! You may be aware that MEAN BML is now transiting Taurus. Other times it has been noticed to coincide with a period when 'facts' come to the surface. What one instinctively felt to be so turned out to be right. It may coincide with a time when you are able to put 2+2 together and come up with 4. Finally understanding cause and effect hit some nails on the head for my BML in Virgo, rather than adding more to the coffin.
I, too, have a 12th house BML, partile Asc. I underwent the 'initiation into inner cleansing' many years ago during a significant transit of BML into and through my 4th house.
As a matter of interest, are you of an age that coincides with menopause?
It seems for the older generations, for whom Moon and Saturn conditioning were part of life, that the Moon's significance with 'the change of life' gives Black Moon called Lilith the opportunity to surface in its own right.
Bina
Well-known member
Hi Frisiangal,
thanks so much for all your insights!
You are right, it is like a part that was always hidden, i kind of knew about it, but couldn't put the whole picture together because some of the pieces were missing. It was sort of fuzzy around the edges - which is very piscean, and it seems now slowly all is becoming clear.
P.S. : I am almost 46, so approaching menopause, i can feel it coming..
thanks so much for all your insights!
You are right, it is like a part that was always hidden, i kind of knew about it, but couldn't put the whole picture together because some of the pieces were missing. It was sort of fuzzy around the edges - which is very piscean, and it seems now slowly all is becoming clear.
P.S. : I am almost 46, so approaching menopause, i can feel it coming..
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QuaternityEagle
Well-known member
I would really like to see your chart. Moon opposed Mercury is a very strong indicator of issues w/ Mom, rather than anything presented by the archetype of Lilith from what i've learned... but it could feel like maybe you felt like she wasn't there for you.
Bina
Well-known member
I agree with you that moon-Mercury opposition indicates some mother issues , but feel it doesn't account for the total emotional disconnection that i feel with my mother, i think this can only be explained by adding Lilith into the picture.
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QuaternityEagle
Well-known member
From what i see... if the tenth house has to do with Mother, and jupiter rules the tenth house, the Jupiter square Saturn is ALSo something that impacts your relationship with your mom.
something about like, feeling devalued, not being valuable enough, feeling demoralized... ?
Lilith is just this archetype that usually is much mroe personal to us i say this because like, its a small little spot comparatively to the other planets and because we don't know much about Lilith... we have our stories but astrology looks at archetypes and the stories of lilith do not really explain her archetype because they are connected to other stories with archetypes that don't relate to the mythos/logos in astrology... I dunno to me it just seems the major planets and their influence count for much more of what happens to us because of things outside of us, and simply because of their presence in the universe. im not discounting lilith's influence, but archetypically, she usually speaks to some sort of like empowerment through protection or self-preservation...
i dunno... what do you think Lilith means? like what is her archetype about?
something about like, feeling devalued, not being valuable enough, feeling demoralized... ?
Lilith is just this archetype that usually is much mroe personal to us i say this because like, its a small little spot comparatively to the other planets and because we don't know much about Lilith... we have our stories but astrology looks at archetypes and the stories of lilith do not really explain her archetype because they are connected to other stories with archetypes that don't relate to the mythos/logos in astrology... I dunno to me it just seems the major planets and their influence count for much more of what happens to us because of things outside of us, and simply because of their presence in the universe. im not discounting lilith's influence, but archetypically, she usually speaks to some sort of like empowerment through protection or self-preservation...
i dunno... what do you think Lilith means? like what is her archetype about?
Bina
Well-known member
Hi again QEagle,
that's a deep question..
I feel since Lilith was not accepted and banned from paradise, perhaps in our charts she shows us those parts of ourselves that we/others cannot accept and therefore they get banned or hidden in a deeper place in our psyche, and so often become the cause of deep pain, until they can be understood and dealt with.