how to stitch things together?

to simplify the question, how do you interpret together the many elements in a chart?

do you start by anything specific, like look at everything involving the sun, then moon, then all planets? do you include aspects in this first part or do you wait until you read all planets? at which point do you start reading for house cusps, qualities, etc?

do you have a step-by-step for readings or would you rather have a general feel of the chart and only read for those who "call" to you? do you take notes or have any way of keeping assessment of all the elements?

there are so many elements that I start losing my way halfway through. Full readings are extense, and I'm looking for different methods

What are you currently doing to establish what are the priorities in the chart?

Are you looking for themes or are you looking at textbook definitions of aspects, and signs, and houses, and planets?

looking for exalted planets, and those who appear multiple times in a chart by aspect or rulership, or houses with many planets. My guess is that those are the areas where there will be more 'activity' in the person's life. When I'm trying to do a full reading I start by planets and do all of them, though, which ends up being a lot. I'd appreciate inputs on how to do it better

Do you consider yourself a modern astrologer or a traditional one?

(these questions are necessary to find out what kind of answer might work well for you rather than just jumping in and telling you MY WAY. And I do have a MY WAY---which you can find out by going to the website in my signature below)

What kinds of books do you have to assist you with this? Who is your favorite author? Are you entirely self taught or did you have a teacher?

Basically, you try to find one or two planets -- or chart features -- that stand above the rest in prominence and power. There are different ways to go about this, different methods.

One of the study methods I have used is to select a well-known person, one who meets three criteria:

1. The birth time is reasonably "certain."
2. The life is well-known and documented.
3. They are dead. Their life has been lived out, and thus the whole chart/life is available for study.

I then read a minimum of two biographies (to get different viewpoints. I try to pick authors who are a bit antagonistic, and I watch for one taking information from the other. I'm trying to get as objective a view of the subject as possible.) I work with this material to the point where I can "feel" the main traits of the person...sort of see what makes them tick, what drives them, main character traits, the general tone or nature of events in the life.....

And then I find these things in the chart. By doing this you begin to figure out which chart factors seem to be predominant in the life, and soon you will begin to find these things before you study the life.

It would be helpful if you could find a mentor. That would save you a lot of wrong turns, frustration, and time.

The only way to learn to read horoscopes is to read horoscopes. Books are for learning techniques and such, but they are not a substitute for studying charts.

Charts (lives) tend to have a Theme. The theme is developed by repetition of ideas....one thing says solitude, another hints at something similar...and you end up with a guy who lives in a cave.

I let the chart speak to me...I let IT guide me, rather than trying to impose myself and my ideas on the chart. The chart will guide you once you learn how to let it.

Begin with preponderances, and things like that. A preponderance might be something like 7 planets in Fixed signs, or 6 planets in Water....there are many forms of preponderance. That sort of thing is generally fundamental in the person's nature....any Essential dignity tells of inherent, inborn qualities...and they are not subject to change, go deep. Things which are general, which involve and emerge from consideration of the whole chart (such as 7 planets in Fixed signs) form the deepest layer of self, and the more specific things rest upon them, and are subject to them, conform to and are determined by their dictates or imperatives. The rest of the chart is built upon such things as a foundation, and a horoscope always has a hierarchy of power (some are more scattered, harder to see this in that type chart...but it is there.) Look for a final dispositor; they control the chart, quite often from a background position, but always very powerfully. They usually set the theme of the chart. But in reading such things, we have to keep in mind that astrology is pure symbolism, and its symbols are capable of many and varied forms of expression.

So we have to understand this symbolic nature of the art.

A good example of a final dispositor predisposing the personality toward a certain type of life is given by Martin Luther, the 16th century religious reformer. Using traditional rulerships, Mars is final dispositor. A keyword for Mars in Scorpio is "Purification". When he was a young man he was almost killed by a bolt of lightning. Within a week he was in a monatery, having promised the Lord Above that he would purify himself of sin. He was fanatical and severe in his practices, being overwhelmed by guilt. Later he becomes a parish priest, and incensed at the corruption of the Church, tries to purify it, which leads to his odyssey. So, one of the themes of his life is purficaton (of self and of what is outside of him). Now the Moon in his chart stands alone. Any planet standing off by itself will be important. Not only is Mars the final dispositor of the chart, but he is the direct lord of the Moon, who is in Aries.....and in the 9th House. Aha! Mars disposes Moon, and Moon is in fiesty, courageous, rash Aries in the 9th of religious institutions. [Moon in the 9th can signify excommunication, incidentally. The chart I use for Gandhi (not the one or ones commonly used) has Moon in 9th, and he was tossed out of his religious group when he chose to go to England to study.]

There is much more to Luther's chart than what I have mentioned, of course. And as I said, there is more than one way to skin a cat....other astrologers will use other methods, but ideally we will reach very similar conclusions regarding the life despite differing methods.

I like well-known people because they lend themselves to objectivity in interpretation. Close friends or relatives, or my own chart...they tend to distort our vision due to subjectivity creeping in.

magicmachine said:

to simplify the question, how do you interpret together the many elements in a chart?

do you start by anything specific, like look at everything involving the sun, then moon, then all planets? do you include aspects in this first part or do you wait until you read all planets? at which point do you start reading for house cusps, qualities, etc?

do you have a step-by-step for readings or would you rather have a general feel of the chart and only read for those who "call" to you? do you take notes or have any way of keeping assessment of all the elements?

there are so many elements that I start losing my way halfway through. Full readings are extense, and I'm looking for different methods

Click to expand...

I just start by looking at the chart as a whole and see what stands out. Maybe there is a massive T-square in the chart involving the Sun or Moon, or a planet like Chiron that sits out all alone but is opposite and square everything in the chart.

I also look to see where the Node, Vesta and Vertex are as they tell me what the life path is for this person, and where they focus their energy and manifest their reality - is it a positive manifestation or a negative one? I then go from there.

That's just me, everyone has their method. Usually by doing this I am able to zero in on what they need to know fairly quickly. It may not be what they asked but it is what they need to know, and they usually realize it later. That they are a sunny person who loves music and can be a good writer and will have lots of kids is completely irrelevant if the chart says their thoughts and beliefs handed to them are destroying their life by them creating a negative reality based on those thoughts. I point this out to them so that they can get on track and create the life they want, and then the other things will matter. Until then they don't.

Many people aren't aware of how things like their parents, siblings, friends, co-workers - poison or sabotage their beliefs and thoughts and hold them back. Sometimes it isn't those people but themselves who holds them back with self-destructive behavior. Things are the things I ferret out. I also look at how the current transiting planets are affecting the situation. After that is done then you can go and discuss what career areas you can explore, or whatever.

Thank you both for your answers!

@Zarathu, I don't have any books on the subject, to be honest, I can't find any legitimate astrology book where I live. I'd need to import. I mostly find articles and even some books online, so I'm self-taught and my "technique" is all over the place, with bits and pieces of many authors and methods. I realise how flimsy it is, but I assure I'm actually interested in expanding my studies.



@greybeard, I see! It sounds like what I do, finding repeated elements (what you call proeminence) within a chart. Sounds really interesting to try and study the chart of a known person, I'll certainly try it!

I do have a question, though, and it's the biggest "problem" for me: what to do when it looks like there are many of these proeminences? Do you think they crash or work together, there's a push-pull of forces or even between them there's an order of priority? What if they contradict each other (like your solitude example, what if they have elements pointing to an extrovert as well?).

And finally (sorry to keep asking), I'm assuming by dispositor you mean the element (planet or house or sign, right?) with the highest hierarchy in the chart, and I'm also assuming this hierarchy is also find by repetition/proeminence), but what do you mean with "background position"? Would it be, using your Luther example, because the key is not Mars position itself, but its influence through Aries and house/sign rulership?

Thanks once more for your very didatic explanation, it shed a different light on the topic for me, specially with you theme approach

So basically, you are learning how to do astrology simply from what you can learn on the internet?

IMO, you can only get the stuff on the surface here. For real learning, you will need to purchase books that will never be offered free on the internet.

Its a commitment you will need to make for the craft.

I usually look to the transits and interpret from there. I take the current configurations along with a look back and forward (+/- 1 year) allow me to see what is going on in a person's life right now. This helps to get to the "meat of the issue".

I don't usually spend any time on who a person is (character analysis) which tends to be a very different approach than most in the field. My emphasis is what is being activated in the chart, by what planets, and what angles.

The transits will tell me the most, after that it is the progressions and solar arc but, I expect those charts to back up what I would have already seen in the transits.

Using this method, I can usually get a good idea of what is going on in a person's life in about 20 minutes.

A chart has a theme, just as your life does.

My own chart is full of "preponderances" and this in itself is significant, without paying attention to what those preponderances are specifically. Equally, you will often find charts with no preponderance whatsoever. And this is also significant. Have patience; you'll get there. Use (apply) common sense to your work. A chart with no preponderances might be said to have a "greater degree of freedom" than one with many. What would be the implications of "a greater degree of freedom"?

Everything in a chart has significance. Mostly things work together, creating the theme. When you see conflict, that is what the person experiences. I am a strong proponent of "what you see is what you get." When you see a conflict, apply your common sense to the problem, try to work out the probable results. A handy exampe is the opposition aspect. Most charts have at least one. And what does an opposition represent if not a fundamental conflict? So you examine the opposition carefully, the planets involved, which is stronger in the chart or by nature, the signs involved, the conditioning of their lords, contributing aspects....each thing of itself is "true", so you put the pieces together and a picture of the situation emerges.

Go to www.astro.com, to their astrodata section, and pull up Luther's chart. Study charts and dig deep. Bruce Lee also had Mars as final dispositor. Both men were true warriors, each expressing this quality differently. Luther was a priest, not a job usually thought of as fitting for a warrior. But, basically all alone (he had his supporters, of course) he stood up to the Holy Roman Emperor and the Pope and defied them. The man put his life up front to fight for his beliefs. There was a death sentence on his head.

By dispositor we mean the planet that rules a sign. That planet "disposes" (use your dictionary, please....dispose, disposition, and also determine -- this will explain what a dispositor does and why it is such a powerful influence) the sign and whatever is in it, and also the affairs of the house where the sign holds the cusp. In some charts, but not all, if you follow the "chain of disposition" you will find that one single planet disposes all the others. It must disposit all the others to be final (sole, or grand) dispositor. When you find such a planet (it must occupy its own sign...e.g., Mars must be in Aries or Scorpio to be final dispositor), it has power over Everything in the chart....it disposes all the other planets, rules them.

By "background" I mean that the influence may not be readily apparent. It may be cloaked, hidden, but the powerful influence is there nonetheless. A chart with a powerfully angular planet, or one that stands alone (say Moon in Luther's chart) may bring attention to itself, be more easily seen in the life. But Mars disposes Moon in Luther's chart....he rules the Moon and determines how the Moon will act, and toward what ends. Mars in Luther's chart tells us many things....Luther sought to purify both himself and his church....but he was also a warrior, with all the attributes of a warrior....and he was other things too -- according to the nature of Mars.

Bradley Manning also has Mars (a very troubled and also powerful Mars) as final dispositor. But if you look at his chart (and it doesn't matter that the time of birth is not known) you will see that Jupiter acts as the executive officer (follow the chain of disposition) in his map, and also influences everything under his disposition.....and is the most immediate cause of what he did. But Mars is the controlling influence.

The emphasis I am placing on a final dispositor here does not obviate other powerful influences. We don't want to give undue importance to one thing at the cost of ignoring other equally important things. Part of the task in chart interpretation is to weigh and balance all the various factors. Most people are not one-dimensional, and our methods and results should reflect this understanding. In Luther's chart, for example, there is a preponderance of Fixed signs. This type of thing (a power based on whole-chart consideration rather than focus on a single planet (Mars here) is predominant. The weight of Fixed signs is greater than Mars alone....the preponderance is superior in the hierarchy of powers. Think about it and you will see why....and take a giant step forward in your quest.

My astrology is strongly oriented toward the psychology of the individual, rather than events specifically. If I can understand the mind, the events will fit into place, and make sense. But the same principles apply if you are more attuned to events.

You are on the right track. Have patience. It will come to you if your desire is strong. And once you "get it" you'll never lose it. Study charts while you continue to build your knowledge from books. I worked under the same handicap you do....few resources, neither books nor teacher. It delayed my development, but also forced me to think for myself. I was on my own. And I'm a very competent astrologer (who recognizes his many deficiencies and weaknesses without apology. I continue to learn new things, correct old errors, daily. That is part of the joy of astrology for me.)

There is something that is rarely brought up by astrologers since most astrologers who are being paid for their services need the money. In professional counseling, one never knows whether the next client is going to be able to move forward with action or whether s/he simply cannot.

Most professional counselors nowadays in the age of HMO's and limited available visits, use some variety of the cognitive-behavioral approach. But counselors don't know if the client can ever get out of the cognitive and into the behavioral.

As you think about how you want to begin to look at charts, IMO, it ought to be in the back of your mind to look at the cognitive structures that are clearly visible in the chart which tend to keep the client in the cognitive phase, and never let them get into the behavioral.

These are the clients who want to talk endlessly about what is wrong, who may have gone to many other counselors or astrologers before you, and who really just want to talk about the various issues but don't want to actually do anything about them. Now if you believe that your role as an astrologer is only to explain the issues, then this is well and good. But if you believe that your role is to explain the issues and then show how the chart suggests you move forward with a solution, you may find that your clients tend to drift away once you move in that direction, just as they do in professional counseling.

There are many ways to look at cognitive structures in the chart. I first look at the latitude of the Moon. This tells me how much they expect to get their own way. Then I look at planets in a critical degree, because it show where a raw edge causes them to either jump prematurely or have feel as if they have the sword of damocles about to fall all the time. Then I look for planets that are Out of Bounds by declination. This may show that Mars is OOB and that they tend to respond to new situations like information that rocks their boat with an attack.

After that I look for closed cognitive structures where in the person is really self-sufficient and doesn't want input. All three kinds of grand trines are these. Some of the T-Squares are another.

In my retired state, I don't need money for interpretations. But at the same time, I want to know whether there is any likelihood, since I'm not doing this for money, that the information that I spend all my time at is going to go out on deaf ears. If it is, maybe I want to spend my time elsewhere.

Its one way to start.

Zarathu - that is the approach I've been taking - "here's your problem, and here's what you can do about it" - and if the subject keeps going on and on about what is wrong and not working and never focuses on what they can do, I consider my work done and move on. I've had lengthy PMs here with several after I've done their chart and they are interested in the process of moving forward. Those are the ones I spend a lot of time with. Those that continue to complain and give a 100 what-ifs following in the same vein of what they have already been doing all their life - I move on. Some people are just not ready to learn and move forward.

magicmachine said:

to simplify the question, how do you interpret together the many elements in a chart?

do you start by anything specific, like look at everything involving the sun, then moon, then all planets? do you include aspects in this first part or do you wait until you read all planets? at which point do you start reading for house cusps, qualities, etc?

do you have a step-by-step for readings or would you rather have a general feel of the chart and only read for those who "call" to you? do you take notes or have any way of keeping assessment of all the elements?

there are so many elements that I start losing my way halfway through. Full readings are extense, and I'm looking for different methods

Click to expand...

Astrology is Planet, Sign, House, Aspect, Reception. Always.

How people are affected by a particular transiting Planet in aspect with a natal Planet depends on, Planet, Sign, House, Aspect and Reception. So note the Signs and Houses, look for Reception, look at the Term Rulers.

No one will have the same experiences, which is why it is all the more important to actually read the chart. Your natal chart isn't about you, it's about your world, and that includes other people in addition to you. So just because you see an aspect, don't make the mistake of automatically assuming it's all about you, because it isn't, it's about your world (which includes other people). Yes, it might be about you or something that happens to you, but it could be something that happens to someone else and affects you indirectly.

Maybe the 5th House is involved, but that could be your children or firstborn child and not you. Of course if you don't have children, then you can rule that out. It could be something to do with your mother (since 5th House is her 8th House). Could also be your spouse's friends. Maybe your parent's lose their home, or it is damaged or destroyed, since the 4th House is parents and the 5th House is the second House from the 4th House and so that's their assets (and in that case you'd want to pay attention to what is happening in the 7th House since that is their 4th House/Real Estate). The 1st House is your father's career or status or honor/reputation (because it's the tenth House from the 4th House).

Make sure you consider all the meanings of the Houses and derived meanings as well.

There are a lot of things going on in your chart, aside from transits that have more of an impact than transits

When transiting Planets are not making aspects, they are still doing things. They are in the Term of Planet and they are aspecting other Houses (and yes that's Houses and not Planets), so you need to pay attention to that stuff too, especially since it has a greater impact over all.

Your natal chart is about your world and the people you interact with. In order to know the story, you have to look at the Planets, Signs, Houses, Aspects and Reception in your chart. What happens in other people's charts has no bearing on you (unless you're interacting with them at the physical level) except as a learning thing.

People learn at different rates, so learn at a rate that is comfortable to you, even if it is slow (there's no Astrology Olympics handing out Gold Medals), and try to master something as best you can before you move onto the next level So learn at your own pace and try to master the signification of the Houses, Signs and Planets (the Sun can be your father -- especially in a Day Chart -- or your brother, your boss, supervisor, male co-worker or it can be a non-people thing like you health/vitality, your reputation, your credit -- as in your finances -- your fame etc).

The reason the traditional Planets work is because people spent several thousand years studying them. First the Sumerians, then the Akkadians, the Amorites (what you would call Babylonians) the Assyrians, the Chaldeans (Neo-Babylonians) and the Greeks and Romans.

Wow, how we would have been blessed (back in the early-to-mid '70's) to receive a fraction of the support donated by kind strangers to you here...

Just to say one simple tool for sorting through all the relevant factors is to bear in mind some are tons stronger than others may be;

For example, I get lots of satisfaction (in terms of feeling like I'm starting to connect with a warm-body image of the readee) by focusing first on the tightest aspects (say within 2.x degrees).

YMMV