piercethevale
Well-known member
Greetings, once again.
I'm suffering terribly from a pinched nerve in my right arm that has my neck and shoulder wracked up and has rendered half of my right hand numb and useless and this has been going on for over two months now. I may have to retire from all writing until I can return to normal ...if I can.
I inadvertently drag the little finger over the keys which leads to all sorts of mayhem as for trying to use the keyboard...so, bear with any typos, if you all can, it's a real b**** to even do this much. I'm also going to be as brief as to explanations as I can get away with and in fact am going to copy and paste a a lot from what I email Phoenix Venus the other day...and she has been sweet enough to run down some of the chart work it is taking...
I so do want to get into this topic as I'm re-reading Rabbi Joel Dobin's wonderful book, "Kabbalistic Astrology" for the second time.
I got my copy sometime back in the 1990's and it took awhile to get through it as it is so deep, so esoteric, that by the time I finished it during the summer of 2001 I had already forgotten some of it.
Heck, it's so difficult to type this morning that I'm just going to copy and paste excerpts of what I wrote Her [a real b**** is that my middle finger keeps right clicking when I rest my hand on the mouse...and using my left feels so unatural...sigh] ...hopefully you all can understand and follow along...
ptv.
___________________________________________
NOTICE: I AM USING COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL HERE UNDER THE FAIR USE PROVISION IN THAT IT IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY.
"...Dobin's on the way...I got to point out what I was talking about... if I can sit still for a bit i'll type it out and send pics of the couple/few pages that he wrote about it. it has to do with the cycle of conjunctions between Jupiter and Saturn...he says occur apprx. every twenty years...he gets into the number of years of a few cycles, I don't know why I didn't catch it years ago when I first read this part of the book [it's early in the book] but that was the early 90's and I guess some of these concepts were totally new to me at the time and I just glazed over them and picked up the thread on after...."
________________
"You see, it was not until after i wrote the book that I recall ever hearing of the "Saros". As one of the members of the forum, since resigned in her own way, a Jewish woman that lived in England and claimed to also be a "Rabbi" [she deleted all her posts] told me that the number 666 also has another reference, she said it is the number of the Saros and that it has to do with certain Sun-Moon eclipses [In fact I tried to start compiling charts of what I believed those eclipses are, of which i''m still not sure... I did get a number of them, so if you get into any of this and wish to have them I'll send them along, but I can't guarantee that they are the definition of the exact kind called for...of which I can't recall what kind she said [her name just came back to me, 'Olivia', that was her aw forum name] but the important thing I was trying to determine, at least I think it is important, is what is the length of years of a cycle of the Saros as I: recall the number 666 referred to the number of these eclipses, which doesn't mean that the years add up to the same, in fact it was looking like very far from it if I was on the right track...
But this digression of mine needs to stop... here...
I'm becoming more conscious of time management with each less day I have on this earth... so much to do... and God only knows how much time in which to get it done..."
__________________________
"As I'm re-reading the pertinent passage once again I'm getting the itch bad to find out what the symbolic message is.
Think of it Stacey, no one has likely ever glanced upon these in tens of thousands of years...if ever!?!
It's like getting to be the first to see Mt. McKinley or Everest, like seeing Lake Tahoe for the first time back when Fremont was the first white man to in the early 1800's or Niagara Falls, for you East Coasters.
He introduces the concept starting with the significance of the number 20. The number 20 is mentioned many times in the building of the Tabernacle, that every young man, upon turning 20, was responsible for the collective good of the community.
As Saturn is the outermost and slower of the two, it was considered by the ancients to be the "the transmitter of the mysteries","... the 'Divine Messenger'. And since the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction was a twenty year occurrence, the idea developed that God passed on the message of His Divine Will at every Jupiter-Saturn conjunction. Jupiter then passed it on to every planet in the Heavens during the year following, since the Planets sunward of Jupiter make at least one conjunction with Jupiter each year. Thus the astrological rational for the necessity of reaching the age of twenty to be counted as a responsible member of the community was that at least one Jupiter-Saturn conjunction would have occurred before the twentieth birthday...and the young man could know God's Will for him by consulting his astrologer.
YOWSER...I SENSE THAT THIS COULD BE HUGE..."
__________________
"i REALIZE NOW THAT IT IS A LOT MORE THAN JUST ONE CHART AND ONE SABIAN EVERY TWENTY YEARS [WHOOPS...****, my cap key got reversed again, I never understood how I'm causing this] it's every twenty and the year that follows following all the Jupiter-inward conjunctions...whew...!"
______________________________
"Now, the Rabbi was ...i hate to say it, pretty bad when it came to any ephemeris work/quotes so be aware of that.
So, the Rabbi goes on and there is a chart ...but like I said about his work..."
___________________________
" 'Astrologers also noticed that such conjunctions occurred at least three or four times in the same triplicity, and that the change from one triplicity to the other heralded a major change in the manifestation of God's Will. For example, the last four Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions occurred at the following times: {chart}
Sept. 8 1921 at 26* Virgo
Feb. 15 1941 at 09* Taurus
Feb 19 1961 at 28* Cap.
Dec. 31 1980 at 09* Libra' "
_________________________
"He continues..
'The next conjunction of Jup-Sat will take place on the date of May 28, 2000 and will be at 23* Gemini...'
And I wrote in the margin 'actually it was 22* Taurus?
according to ephemeris'
I recall this part now, I did check it out as to my Michaelsens 20th Century Ephemeris, which has always been very trustworthy...and I became a little disillusioned with the book and the Rabbi at this point as it is only at page 27 of the book...so, i dropped the issue, the search right then and there and never got back to it and I'm glad I continued on with the book [I had bought it at the only pure astrology bookstore in Sacramento county and home of Sac's pre-eminent Astrologer at that time...and I can't remember his name, right now, but He turned me on to Don {last name withheld}, when I approached him with the Jesus chart over the phone...hmmm...his name just came back, Wayne Moody. ..and Don hasn't been of much help and about just a jigger more of support....
yeah, so I bought it during my lunch break as i was painting at a school nearby...early 9o's sometime, and pretty much read the bulk of it on lunch and coffee breaks... I didn't finish the book until 2000-2001... when i was injured and then out of work permanently and was living along the river below....learned to do my first Sun pujas at that time...sat on a rock about 80 yrds down river from the Rainbow Bridge almost every single day all day...swimming and reading...got so brown I could pass for about anything shy of Black... I made the best of being out of work and homeless.... looking back, I've realized that I enjoyed the living daylights out of that summer..."
___________________________
...and Phoenix Venus wrote back...
_________________________________
"I just pulled a chart up for the one in 2000... narrowed down to the minute... don't have the patience to do the seconds.... the conj is at 23 Taurus... hmm! With the mc/ic at 25* Taurus/Scorp. and the Asc at 30* Leo...
Asc being 'an unsealed letter' seems to fit with the overall premise you have in mind..."
_____________
...and she followed with...
___________________
".... a jewelry shop filled with valuable gems... the embellishment at the end of a natural process.. certification of personal worth.... hmm.
Oh yeah.. meant to say... down to the minute its 12:02 pm philly time"
________________________
...and I wrote back...
_____________________
"As to his alleged conjunction in 2000 in Gemini he goes on to say
'...and will be at 23* Gemini, an Air triplicity in the Mutables. Notice that the conjunctions before 1901...'
and this is where the page ends ...so I'm going to photograph the next couple of pages and note what he says himself about the chart that is the second page acoming.
That'll be a little while later.. basically he's pointing out what relevance the series of conjunction is the Water signs society had to the element as to developments...such as in 1821 Water Signs were the cycle and from 1821 to 1901 were the years the great trade routes were established on the seas...the era of the Clipper ships, the advent of Steam ships...etc..and then it goes on to state that completing one entire cycle is 720 years..and that jibes in with those cycles that i got fascinated with...666 & 888 as he declares that the 720 is a notable divisor of one complete Yuga [not his words but you know what I'm taking about. He says they last 25, 920... although the Hindus, or at least Sri Yukteswar did, say 26,000 years and i believe it to be 26,640 [remember from my book? as 3 xs 888 = 2664 and 4 xs 666 = the same...and how the 108 revolutions of Pluto around the Sun is nearly almost exactly the same?] and notice that the difference between my figures and the Rabbi's is 720 years...!"
___________________________
"Well, i was about to say that what I just gave you is adequate, but I realized that wouldn't be fair of me to make that decision for you. There's only 4 more pages of text and one chart that even he admits to not place too much faith in as gospel truth [my words] but to only use it as a general outline for the sake of demonstration and as an aid for understanding."
______________________
"and there are about 8 1/2 p'ages before the text I typed out for you
It's all part of 'Part Two, "ASTROLOGY OF ANCIENT ISRAEL", Chapter 3, "General Principles" ' but I don't know if you'll want those, or even need them at this time...like I said it took me a few to digest it all myself...and i'm still chewing.
__________________
"sol where was the Jupiter-Saturn conj. in 2000, again? Did I have it right or did he?"
__________________
...and Phoenix Venus wrote back...
_____________________________
"It happened at about 12:02 philly time... 22* Taurus 43'16" ."
_______________________
...and I replied...
__________________________
"So, I was right..or Michaelsen was, I should say
Because I wrote those margin notes before i ever saw astrodienst or even heard of them.
... this is like there's a 'Frontier' again... uncharted territory...!
I live for that thrill...I'm hooked I'm a Astro-addict"
__________________
my arm is aching terribly. I'm going to stop here, post the chart for the Saturn Jupiter conj. in 2000 and although the Rabbi didn't mention them, I searched out the first conj of the Moon, also did the Sun ~ Jupiter conj. that followed...but I also noticed and mentioned to P.V. that I was wondering if the Rabbi got it right in that it's the sunward planets that come around and conj. Jupiter, not Jupiter catching them and making the conjs...which, actually is pretty obvious to most anyone...but also that they will conj. Saturn first... that's a lot to look at and figure out...but I'm posting the Saturn conjs as well only for convenience sake for those of you that might be interested... for now, just following the Rabbi's directions is enough on one plate...
Ptv
Notice: All Sabian Symbols presented in this thread are taken from Dane Rudhyar's marvelous book, now out of print, "An Astrological Mandala"
________________________
I'm suffering terribly from a pinched nerve in my right arm that has my neck and shoulder wracked up and has rendered half of my right hand numb and useless and this has been going on for over two months now. I may have to retire from all writing until I can return to normal ...if I can.
I inadvertently drag the little finger over the keys which leads to all sorts of mayhem as for trying to use the keyboard...so, bear with any typos, if you all can, it's a real b**** to even do this much. I'm also going to be as brief as to explanations as I can get away with and in fact am going to copy and paste a a lot from what I email Phoenix Venus the other day...and she has been sweet enough to run down some of the chart work it is taking...
I so do want to get into this topic as I'm re-reading Rabbi Joel Dobin's wonderful book, "Kabbalistic Astrology" for the second time.
I got my copy sometime back in the 1990's and it took awhile to get through it as it is so deep, so esoteric, that by the time I finished it during the summer of 2001 I had already forgotten some of it.
Heck, it's so difficult to type this morning that I'm just going to copy and paste excerpts of what I wrote Her [a real b**** is that my middle finger keeps right clicking when I rest my hand on the mouse...and using my left feels so unatural...sigh] ...hopefully you all can understand and follow along...
ptv.
___________________________________________
NOTICE: I AM USING COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL HERE UNDER THE FAIR USE PROVISION IN THAT IT IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY.
"...Dobin's on the way...I got to point out what I was talking about... if I can sit still for a bit i'll type it out and send pics of the couple/few pages that he wrote about it. it has to do with the cycle of conjunctions between Jupiter and Saturn...he says occur apprx. every twenty years...he gets into the number of years of a few cycles, I don't know why I didn't catch it years ago when I first read this part of the book [it's early in the book] but that was the early 90's and I guess some of these concepts were totally new to me at the time and I just glazed over them and picked up the thread on after...."
________________
"You see, it was not until after i wrote the book that I recall ever hearing of the "Saros". As one of the members of the forum, since resigned in her own way, a Jewish woman that lived in England and claimed to also be a "Rabbi" [she deleted all her posts] told me that the number 666 also has another reference, she said it is the number of the Saros and that it has to do with certain Sun-Moon eclipses [In fact I tried to start compiling charts of what I believed those eclipses are, of which i''m still not sure... I did get a number of them, so if you get into any of this and wish to have them I'll send them along, but I can't guarantee that they are the definition of the exact kind called for...of which I can't recall what kind she said [her name just came back to me, 'Olivia', that was her aw forum name] but the important thing I was trying to determine, at least I think it is important, is what is the length of years of a cycle of the Saros as I: recall the number 666 referred to the number of these eclipses, which doesn't mean that the years add up to the same, in fact it was looking like very far from it if I was on the right track...
But this digression of mine needs to stop... here...
I'm becoming more conscious of time management with each less day I have on this earth... so much to do... and God only knows how much time in which to get it done..."
__________________________
"As I'm re-reading the pertinent passage once again I'm getting the itch bad to find out what the symbolic message is.
Think of it Stacey, no one has likely ever glanced upon these in tens of thousands of years...if ever!?!
It's like getting to be the first to see Mt. McKinley or Everest, like seeing Lake Tahoe for the first time back when Fremont was the first white man to in the early 1800's or Niagara Falls, for you East Coasters.
He introduces the concept starting with the significance of the number 20. The number 20 is mentioned many times in the building of the Tabernacle, that every young man, upon turning 20, was responsible for the collective good of the community.
As Saturn is the outermost and slower of the two, it was considered by the ancients to be the "the transmitter of the mysteries","... the 'Divine Messenger'. And since the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction was a twenty year occurrence, the idea developed that God passed on the message of His Divine Will at every Jupiter-Saturn conjunction. Jupiter then passed it on to every planet in the Heavens during the year following, since the Planets sunward of Jupiter make at least one conjunction with Jupiter each year. Thus the astrological rational for the necessity of reaching the age of twenty to be counted as a responsible member of the community was that at least one Jupiter-Saturn conjunction would have occurred before the twentieth birthday...and the young man could know God's Will for him by consulting his astrologer.
YOWSER...I SENSE THAT THIS COULD BE HUGE..."
__________________
"i REALIZE NOW THAT IT IS A LOT MORE THAN JUST ONE CHART AND ONE SABIAN EVERY TWENTY YEARS [WHOOPS...****, my cap key got reversed again, I never understood how I'm causing this] it's every twenty and the year that follows following all the Jupiter-inward conjunctions...whew...!"
______________________________
"Now, the Rabbi was ...i hate to say it, pretty bad when it came to any ephemeris work/quotes so be aware of that.
So, the Rabbi goes on and there is a chart ...but like I said about his work..."
___________________________
" 'Astrologers also noticed that such conjunctions occurred at least three or four times in the same triplicity, and that the change from one triplicity to the other heralded a major change in the manifestation of God's Will. For example, the last four Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions occurred at the following times: {chart}
Sept. 8 1921 at 26* Virgo
Feb. 15 1941 at 09* Taurus
Feb 19 1961 at 28* Cap.
Dec. 31 1980 at 09* Libra' "
_________________________
"He continues..
'The next conjunction of Jup-Sat will take place on the date of May 28, 2000 and will be at 23* Gemini...'
And I wrote in the margin 'actually it was 22* Taurus?
according to ephemeris'
I recall this part now, I did check it out as to my Michaelsens 20th Century Ephemeris, which has always been very trustworthy...and I became a little disillusioned with the book and the Rabbi at this point as it is only at page 27 of the book...so, i dropped the issue, the search right then and there and never got back to it and I'm glad I continued on with the book [I had bought it at the only pure astrology bookstore in Sacramento county and home of Sac's pre-eminent Astrologer at that time...and I can't remember his name, right now, but He turned me on to Don {last name withheld}, when I approached him with the Jesus chart over the phone...hmmm...his name just came back, Wayne Moody. ..and Don hasn't been of much help and about just a jigger more of support....
yeah, so I bought it during my lunch break as i was painting at a school nearby...early 9o's sometime, and pretty much read the bulk of it on lunch and coffee breaks... I didn't finish the book until 2000-2001... when i was injured and then out of work permanently and was living along the river below....learned to do my first Sun pujas at that time...sat on a rock about 80 yrds down river from the Rainbow Bridge almost every single day all day...swimming and reading...got so brown I could pass for about anything shy of Black... I made the best of being out of work and homeless.... looking back, I've realized that I enjoyed the living daylights out of that summer..."
___________________________
...and Phoenix Venus wrote back...
_________________________________
"I just pulled a chart up for the one in 2000... narrowed down to the minute... don't have the patience to do the seconds.... the conj is at 23 Taurus... hmm! With the mc/ic at 25* Taurus/Scorp. and the Asc at 30* Leo...
Asc being 'an unsealed letter' seems to fit with the overall premise you have in mind..."
_____________
...and she followed with...
___________________
".... a jewelry shop filled with valuable gems... the embellishment at the end of a natural process.. certification of personal worth.... hmm.
Oh yeah.. meant to say... down to the minute its 12:02 pm philly time"
________________________
...and I wrote back...
_____________________
"As to his alleged conjunction in 2000 in Gemini he goes on to say
'...and will be at 23* Gemini, an Air triplicity in the Mutables. Notice that the conjunctions before 1901...'
and this is where the page ends ...so I'm going to photograph the next couple of pages and note what he says himself about the chart that is the second page acoming.
That'll be a little while later.. basically he's pointing out what relevance the series of conjunction is the Water signs society had to the element as to developments...such as in 1821 Water Signs were the cycle and from 1821 to 1901 were the years the great trade routes were established on the seas...the era of the Clipper ships, the advent of Steam ships...etc..and then it goes on to state that completing one entire cycle is 720 years..and that jibes in with those cycles that i got fascinated with...666 & 888 as he declares that the 720 is a notable divisor of one complete Yuga [not his words but you know what I'm taking about. He says they last 25, 920... although the Hindus, or at least Sri Yukteswar did, say 26,000 years and i believe it to be 26,640 [remember from my book? as 3 xs 888 = 2664 and 4 xs 666 = the same...and how the 108 revolutions of Pluto around the Sun is nearly almost exactly the same?] and notice that the difference between my figures and the Rabbi's is 720 years...!"
___________________________
"Well, i was about to say that what I just gave you is adequate, but I realized that wouldn't be fair of me to make that decision for you. There's only 4 more pages of text and one chart that even he admits to not place too much faith in as gospel truth [my words] but to only use it as a general outline for the sake of demonstration and as an aid for understanding."
______________________
"and there are about 8 1/2 p'ages before the text I typed out for you
It's all part of 'Part Two, "ASTROLOGY OF ANCIENT ISRAEL", Chapter 3, "General Principles" ' but I don't know if you'll want those, or even need them at this time...like I said it took me a few to digest it all myself...and i'm still chewing.
__________________
"sol where was the Jupiter-Saturn conj. in 2000, again? Did I have it right or did he?"
__________________
...and Phoenix Venus wrote back...
_____________________________
"It happened at about 12:02 philly time... 22* Taurus 43'16" ."
_______________________
...and I replied...
__________________________
"So, I was right..or Michaelsen was, I should say
Because I wrote those margin notes before i ever saw astrodienst or even heard of them.
... this is like there's a 'Frontier' again... uncharted territory...!
I live for that thrill...I'm hooked I'm a Astro-addict"
__________________
my arm is aching terribly. I'm going to stop here, post the chart for the Saturn Jupiter conj. in 2000 and although the Rabbi didn't mention them, I searched out the first conj of the Moon, also did the Sun ~ Jupiter conj. that followed...but I also noticed and mentioned to P.V. that I was wondering if the Rabbi got it right in that it's the sunward planets that come around and conj. Jupiter, not Jupiter catching them and making the conjs...which, actually is pretty obvious to most anyone...but also that they will conj. Saturn first... that's a lot to look at and figure out...but I'm posting the Saturn conjs as well only for convenience sake for those of you that might be interested... for now, just following the Rabbi's directions is enough on one plate...
Ptv
Notice: All Sabian Symbols presented in this thread are taken from Dane Rudhyar's marvelous book, now out of print, "An Astrological Mandala"
________________________
Last edited: