Suicide in the birth chart?

ElenaJ said:

Ernest Hemingway.
Just to get started, knowing this is a suicide chart.

Ascendent ruler is in 12th house, in a wide square with Uranus sitting on the IC.
The 8th house ruler mars is in first house, quintile Uranus on the IC.
South node is conjunct Neptune, ruler of 7th (open enemies).
And, sun placed where Osamenor mentioned, end of cancer.
Sun rules the 12th.
Sun squares Jupiter, co-ruler of 7th.

The Part of Suicide 1 is 19 taurus (trine mars from the 9th of higher thoughts...? thoughts of suicide?)

The Part of Suicide 2 is 13 Capricorn (conjunct moon)

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aquarius7000 said:

Yes, it can be detected.

Anything, rather proclivities to anything, can be detected in a birth chart. An astrologer just needs to be adept at Astrology to be able to detect it. Astrology will give you ALL information about the native.

That said, one needs to be conscious of 1) the ethics and purpose (when will i die vs. concerned parents about their child) of detecting such very delicate matters; 2) know when and how to present it to the native/ native's kin; and 3) be as sure as they can be (experience, practice and skills count) of what they are presenting

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Chrysalis said:

There's two Arabic lots for suicide, which would be:
Asc + H8 - Neptune
Asc + Jupiter - H12

If it's a friends suicide you take 11th as Asc
If it's a child's suicide you take 5th as Asc

etc

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Keira said:

Thanks for the informations!
I was shocked when I heard that Stan Kirsch kill himself.
I want to read his borth chart, but I don' t know his ascendant.
Can you help me for this?
I think he had a Capricorn or Libra ascendant. I wrote his birth time and place in this forum.

Thanks!

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Keira said:

Thanks for the informations!
I was shocked when I heard that Stan Kirsch kill himself.
I want to read his borth chart, but I don' t know his ascendant.
Can you help me for this?
I think he had a Capricorn or Libra ascendant. I wrote his birth time and place in this forum.

Thanks!

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aquarius7000 said:

Can you add his chart here? I would suggest to add his chart both for astrology students of Vedic/Jyotish and Western Astrology

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Keira said:

Here it is:
I see his face and body struckture and I watch his walk style, and I think he had a Libra rising.
But it isn't 100%.
I think this, but I' m not sure it.

content://media/external/file/30788

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JUPITERASC said:

no reliable delineation is possible UNLESS time of birth reliable

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ElenaJ said:

As you'll have noticed, the houses are very important in the reading, and his birth time hasn't been published, so it's really too vague to evaluate.

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Keira said:

Yeah I know this, but what about the face and body structure?
It' s help about the rising sign, I think.
What do you think about this?

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Keira said:

Dear Jupiterasc!

I know, I write: it isn't 100%, so it's just a tipp.☺
Nothing else!
But I don' t know my perfect birth time and I go to an astrologer, and he look at me and sad: You have a cancer rising sign!
And than he do my horoscope refinement and yes, I'm have Cancer rising sign!☺

I ask him how do you know about this, when you open your door to me???
And he sad: Your face and the external directive show me your rising sign.

So I think the face and the external directive show the rising sign.
So many astrology video, blog and page deals with this.
And with the body language too.

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'......Never take your rectification too seriously.
No matter how good it is.
No matter how compelling the evidence appears.
It is still speculative
And most of all, never attempt to pass off a rectified chart as a verified birth time.
This is one of the cardinal sins of astrology,
that astrologers would be excommunicated for
IF the astrological community was some sort of an organized religion

venuschild said:

Two excellent books that explain much about rectification in intense detail are:

http://www.worldastrology.net/ebooks

http://www.worldastrology.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/CA-III.pdf

And Henry Coley wrote:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/clavis.html

http://skyscript.co.uk/pdf/Coley_clavis_astrologiae_elimata.pdf

Very in depth for the studious!

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With many thanks to petosiris

petosiris said:

Another example, with the newly elected Mexican President - https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Lopez_Obrador,_Andres_Manuel

According to the AA source, the birth occurred at 2:00, quite unlikely, like most rounded off births. Let's use Thrasyllus' method again.

1) We determine the ascensional degrees from the Sun to the Moon. We mark 81 as the solar gnomon.
2) We determine the ascensional degrees from the degree opposite the Sun - this is 23.
3) We multiply 23 by 12 and again by the hour of the nativity, with the fractions. Since the birth occurred at the beginning of the ninth hour - 23 x 12 x 8 - 360 x 6 = 48 which is less than the solar gnomon.
4) We add 7 minutes to the time of birth and with 23 x 12 x 8.12 - 360 x 6 = 81 and we get the ''real'' Ascendant.

Jupiter is Lord of the Year and in the place of Good Daimon with Fortune. The Lightbringer also profects to its exaltation. Note that he was not elected with the same profections 12 years ago. Since the Ruler of the Peak was in the place of the Bad Daimon in the 2005 solar revolution, in this Revolution she is with Jupiter to the degree making a phase.

Since the rising time of Libra is 32.5, doubled it makes the stellium operative. And since the rising time of Gemini is 33 and of Virgo is 31.25, it makes the Jupiter square Mars productive of rank, politics and authority (as are the rising times of Virgo and Capricorn for that partile trine). And since half of the rising time of Gemini is 16.5 and 4 times the years of Jupiter = 64.5, it makes it even more operative.

And since the year is multiple of 5, which is the special interval point of Venus (inferior trine), it makes the profection of Jupiter and Fortune even stronger than the last one, and according to Valens ''The configurations of the stars and their aspects with each other (especially the aspects with the Lot of Fortune) are effective in the chronocratorships which are in harmony. (The whole is seen and arises from the aspects of the Lot of Fortune and from its ruler'' - https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf

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Keira said:

Here it is:
I see his face and body struckture and I watch his walk style, and I think he had a Libra rising.
But it isn't 100%.
I think this, but I' m not sure it.

content://media/external/file/30788

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aquarius7000 said:

The "think" part is unfortunately not enough. Esp. when taking into account something as precarious and delicate as a suicide. I mean we can guess work on a Q like, will i move to another country this year, but suicide is a very serious matter.

If your intention is to learn about how others go about reading the chart of a person that committed suicide, then I would suggest you to take a chart where the birth time has at least an A Rodden rating on astro.com

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kalinka said:

keira, this isn't how astrology work. Just guessing around his asc is fun but useless if you need an accurate birth time for precise predictions and analysis of his natal.
What is the date of his death and the location?[/QUO2020

2020.Jan.11. Calfornia, Los Angeles, at his home in the bathroom, he hung himself.
And his wife found Stan there.

On 2009.Valentine day he married with his wife.

He had neck pains since 2016.

In 2017. Okt.23.he had his neck surgery.

In 2017.Okt.20-22. was a great Highlander meeting in the Crown Plaza Hotel, Lax.
And he was there.

And he had his first job in 1972.

And he created his own acting training studio in 2008 in Los Angeles.

Keira

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kalinka said:

keira, this isn't how astrology work.
Just guessing around his asc is fun but useless
if
you need an accurate birth time for precise predictions
and analysis of his natal.

What is the date of his death and the location?

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Keira said:

kalinka said:

keira, this isn't how astrology work.
Just guessing around his asc is fun
but useless
if you need an accurate birth time for precise predictions
and analysis of his natal.
What is the date of his death and the location?

Click to expand...

2020.Jan.11. Calfornia, Los Angeles, at his home in the bathroom, he hung himself.
And his wife found Stan there.

On 2009.Valentine day he married with his wife.

He had neck pains since 2016.

In 2017. Okt.23.he had his neck surgery.

In 2017.Okt.20-22. was a great Highlander meeting in the Crown Plaza Hotel, Lax.
And he was there.

And he had his first job in 1972.

And he created his own acting training studio in 2008 in Los Angeles.

Keira

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THE FOLLOWING ARE THE BASIC RECTIFICATION STEPS

JUPITERASC said:

RELIABLE time of birth is DEFINITELY ESSENTIAL

Those few untimed events with no charts of the events made
are insufficient
for even remotely reliable rectification

THE FOLLOWING ARE THE BASIC RECTIFICATION STEPS
List major life events

academic rewards, degree, diplomas, exams passed
operations, hospital admissions of any kind, accidents
relocation to a new home
relocation abroad
marriages
divorces
births of children
deaths of parents
starting first job
leaving old job
starting new job
and so on
RECTIFICATION IS A TIMECONSUMING PROCESS
exclude dates that are "give or take a couple of weeks"
as too inaccurate
Specific dates for major events

means the

actual exact day as well as the precise time of the occurrence
FOR EXAMPLE


precise date and time of wife/partner/girlfriend gave birth to child


precise date and time of any accidents involving broken bones

precise date and time of first day at work

precise date and time of graduation award

precise date and time of car crashes

precise date and time of relocating to new home

precise date and time on official letter from hospital/medics

giving diagnosis

and/or

precise date and time of appointment with doc/medic who delivered news

precise date and time of graduation day
.

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Keira said:

I think in the world just a few person knows this things precise time and hour.
No one walk in his way in his life with a paper and wrote that:
I graduate 1999.05.13. am 13: 31
Or I have a car crash 2001.11.11. at 18:03

I think....
No one knows that, just perhaps this I have a car crash 2001.11.11. at the late afternoon.

Or this I graduate 1999.05.13. in around 12:00 am.

When I was gone to an astrologer he said:
Write 8- max.15 serious think in your life.
Accident, surgery, serious ill, or wedding, or divorce, child birth, big travel, or death time.

But you know my grandpa death and he asked me : Do you know when?
I said : Yes, I know the year, month, day, and in the night, but I don' t know the precise hour.
He said: no problem, that's enough.
And many think in my life I don' t know the precise hour, but my astrologer can precise my birth time.
1:44 am, and all think I write them, all 15 serious life point find he in my birth chart.
So I think an really good astrologer can precise your birth chart, if you know your serious life point ( year, month, and day).

I think you mustn't know so accurate your serious life point ( hour and minute ).

Thanks

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you shall find how to rectify for yourself

JUPITERASC said:

fact is
the hour at the very minimum
and preferably
to the minute

otherwise it is unreliable data

if you study those links
you shall find how to rectify for yourself

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