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Natal Astrology A place to discuss yours and others' birth charts (after you post your own birth chart interpretation). Includes psychological and relocation astrology, houses, aspects, and planetary dignity and debility.


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  #1  
Unread 09-30-2018, 10:02 PM
Skysky Skysky is offline
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Attracted to same gender how does Venus and Mars work

I have been doing a lot of research and studying trying to find the answer to this , I understand from what I have found that in a man's chart Venus represents the ideal woman he is attracted to while in the woman's chart Mars represents the ideal man she is attracted to , so my question is how would this work with same sex attraction, for better terms the LGBTQ community how would one understand this ?

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  #2  
Unread 09-30-2018, 11:05 PM
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Osamenor Osamenor is offline
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Re: Attracted to same gender how does Venus and Mars work

One way to understand that is it simply isn't true. Mars and Venus don't necessarily have to represent which gender we're attracted to or how. Not all astrologers use them that way. In fact, those particular uses of Mars and Venus are increasingly falling out of favor. They don't work without a heteronormative assumption, and fewer astrologers these days are assuming heteronormativity.

Another way to understand that is to see Mars as your ideal man if you're attracted to men, and Venus as your ideal woman if you're attracted to women. If you're attracted to both genders, then both of those expressions of Mars and Venus are "on" for you. If you're attracted to just one, then one of those expressions is turned off. So, if you're attracted exclusively to men, Venus doesn't indicate your idea woman, although all the other meanings of Venus in your natal chart apply. If you're attracted exclusively to women, Mars doesn't indicate your ideal man, although all the other meanings of Mars apply.

That method doesn't rely on the gender of the querent, but on the gender(s) they're attracted to. But, it would still be hard or impossible to use if the querent and/or people they're attracted to are genderqueer/non-binary.

There's a whole field of queer astrology, and one of its takeaways is a more universal, non-gendered use of the planets, in a way that applies to everyone no matter what gender or sexual orientation they are.
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  #3  
Unread 09-30-2018, 11:12 PM
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IleneK IleneK is offline
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Re: Attracted to same gender how does Venus and Mars work

I find Osamenor's comments interesting.

I would also go on to say that those who practice Jungian psychological astrology through the influence of Liz Greene, Karen Hamaker-Zondag and others, assert the presence of a feminine and masculine component in the psyches of all of us. This could be taken to mean Venus Mars and/or Sun Moon. But in any case, those who identify as female, male, both or neither, all will have a feminine part and a masculine part, both of which operate and influence their psyche to varying degrees.
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Last edited by IleneK; 09-30-2018 at 11:16 PM.
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  #4  
Unread 09-30-2018, 11:12 PM
Skysky Skysky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
One way to understand that is it simply isn't true. Mars and Venus don't necessarily have to represent which gender we're attracted to or how. Not all astrologers use them that way. In fact, those particular uses of Mars and Venus are increasingly falling out of favor. They don't work without a heteronormative assumption, and fewer astrologers these days are assuming heteronormativity.

Another way to understand that is to see Mars as your ideal man if you're attracted to men, and Venus as your ideal woman if you're attracted to women. If you're attracted to both genders, then both of those expressions of Mars and Venus are "on" for you. If you're attracted to just one, then one of those expressions is turned off. So, if you're attracted exclusively to men, Venus doesn't indicate your idea woman, although all the other meanings of Venus in your natal chart apply. If you're attracted exclusively to women, Mars doesn't indicate your ideal man, although all the other meanings of Mars apply.

That method doesn't rely on the gender of the querent, but on the gender(s) they're attracted to. But, it would still be hard or impossible to use if the querent and/or people they're attracted to are genderqueer/non-binary.

There's a whole field of queer astrology, and one of its takeaways is a more universal, non-gendered use of the planets, in a way that applies to everyone no matter what gender or sexual orientation they are.
Thank you for your reply, your right on what you say and that's what made me question the whole Mars Venus theory cause I was like there has to be something else that would indicate attraction or similarities, thanks for your response makes sense to me now
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  #5  
Unread 09-30-2018, 11:13 PM
Skysky Skysky is offline
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Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
I agree with Osamenor's comments and would go even further to say that those that the practice Jungian psychological astrology via the influence of Liz Greene, Karen Hamaker-Zondag and others, recognizes that there is a feminine and masculine component in all of us. So those who identify as female, male, both or neither, all will have a feminine part and a masculine part, both of which operate and influence their psyche to varying degrees.
I agree as well it didn't just seem right on the whole one way street to me , we all have components that equally play out in femmin and masculine quality, thank you for your response
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  #6  
Unread 10-01-2018, 07:34 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Attracted to same gender how does Venus and Mars work

I think the planets aspecting Venus and mars in the natal chart, and what type of aspect whether easy or harsh, are also important factors to look at.
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  #7  
Unread 10-01-2018, 09:14 AM
Skysky Skysky is offline
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Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
I think the planets aspecting Venus and mars in the natal chart, and what type of aspect whether easy or harsh, are also important factors to look at.
Possibly the 7th house aswell maybe? IDK I'm still new at this
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  #8  
Unread 10-01-2018, 03:58 PM
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Osamenor Osamenor is offline
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Re: Attracted to same gender how does Venus and Mars work

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Originally Posted by Skysky View Post
Possibly the 7th house aswell maybe? IDK I'm still new at this
The seventh house is what I look at for the kind of partner the native is attracted to and/or would need. Seventh house, planets in it, and placement of its ruler. That doesn't tell us which gender the partner is, just hints at their character--but the gender part is up to the native to fill in. If they're attracted to men, it will be men who fit their seventh house. If they're attracted to women, it will be women who do.

I don't actually find "Venus is your ideal woman if you're attracted to women and Mars is your ideal man if you're attracted to men" to work very well. What I have seen when interpreting charts is that if the native is raising questions around their own sense of femininity or masculinity, their Venus or Mars placement, respectively, is highly relevant. I think it's much more accurate to say those planets are involved in how you live your own gender.

The "a man's ideal woman is his Venus and a woman's ideal man is her Mars" concept is apparently based on two premises: 1, everyone is heterosexual and cisgender, and 2, everyone suppresses the opposite gender's expression in themselves (women suppress their masculinity and men their femininity), and so projects them onto their ideal partner. From that, we get men idealizing their Venus traits in women and women idealizing their Mars traits in men.

The healthy way is for everyone to own both their own Venus and their own Mars, regardless of their gender identity and expression. Then partners can just be themselves, not projections of a disowned planet.
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  #9  
Unread 10-01-2018, 05:14 PM
Skysky Skysky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
The seventh house is what I look at for the kind of partner the native is attracted to and/or would need. Seventh house, planets in it, and placement of its ruler. That doesn't tell us which gender the partner is, just hints at their character--but the gender part is up to the native to fill in. If they're attracted to men, it will be men who fit their seventh house. If they're attracted to women, it will be women who do.

I don't actually find "Venus is your ideal woman if you're attracted to women and Mars is your ideal man if you're attracted to men" to work very well. What I have seen when interpreting charts is that if the native is raising questions around their own sense of femininity or masculinity, their Venus or Mars placement, respectively, is highly relevant. I think it's much more accurate to say those planets are involved in how you live your own gender.

The "a man's ideal woman is his Venus and a woman's ideal man is her Mars" concept is apparently based on two premises: 1, everyone is heterosexual and cisgender, and 2, everyone suppresses the opposite gender's expression in themselves (women suppress their masculinity and men their femininity), and so projects them onto their ideal partner. From that, we get men idealizing their Venus traits in women and women idealizing their Mars traits in men.

The healthy way is for everyone to own both their own Venus and their own Mars, regardless of their gender identity and expression. Then partners can just be themselves, not projections of a disowned planet.

Wow , very well said that's a very good way of looking at all this, I like how you put things in perspective so it's easy to understand. I really believe when comes to wsomeones sexuality we really cannot put a lable on it by using a planet , thank you for all your responses , and yes thanks for reminding me about 7th house and I'm definitely attracted to my 7th ideal hehe had to throw that in there , but any way thank you
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  #10  
Unread 10-01-2018, 05:46 PM
Skysky Skysky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
I find Osamenor's comments interesting.

I would also go on to say that those who practice Jungian psychological astrology through the influence of Liz Greene, Karen Hamaker-Zondag and others, assert the presence of a feminine and masculine component in the psyches of all of us. This could be taken to mean Venus Mars and/or Sun Moon. But in any case, those who identify as female, male, both or neither, all will have a feminine part and a masculine part, both of which operate and influence their psyche to varying degrees.
Interesting point,
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