Chiron Associations

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LittleGreenDots

Member
I'm curious how Chiron got her/his associations. Today, Chiron is a regular inclusion on many (most?) modern charts. After discovery (1977). who decided what energy/meaning Chiron represents? I'm not questioning it but am curious how the meaning of Chiron evolved? Who initiated these meanings?

Or for that matter, what about the three outer planets? I realize the Big Seven have had their associations for centuries, but what about Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto?

Does anyone know of a history of the evolution of astrology? That would be fascinating.

Thanks.
 
Claire19

Claire19

Well-known member
LittleGreenDots said:
I'm curious how Chiron got her/his associations. Today, Chiron is a regular inclusion on many (most?) modern charts. After discovery (1977). who decided what energy/meaning Chiron represents? I'm not questioning it but am curious how the meaning of Chiron evolved? Who initiated these meanings?

Or for that matter, what about the three outer planets? I realize the Big Seven have had their associations for centuries, but what about Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto?

Does anyone know of a history of the evolution of astrology? That would be fascinating.

Thanks.
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I am still pondering Chiron and as true ruler of Virgo because Mercury is not.
Martin Lass is the expert on Chiron but what is it really? A planet, planetoid or even a comet??? The ancients knew about Uranus, Neptune and Pluto
and we have only "rediscovered" them in modern times. My opinion is to exclude them is folly. I am ruled by Neptune and strongly influenced by Pluto, the other controversial celestial body. Jupiter does not rule Pisces and I am living proof of that. I am sure that you could Google anything you want as far as the evolution of astrology goes but bear in mind a lot of it can be misinformation.
 
CapAquaPis

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
Chiron has more to do with Sagittarius, between the new proposal of planet relationships of the zodiac: Uranus in Scorpio and Neptune in Sagittarius (co-ruler to some astrologers), unless you're into the 13th sign revelation of Ophiuchus is ruled by Chiron, the "medical healer" sign ruled by the "open wound" planetoid...which means perfect scene, but in theory. In the new proposal, Pluto (ruler)-Mars (co-ruler)-Uranus (influence) in Scorpio and Jupiter (ruler)-Neptune (co-ruler)-Chiron in Sagittarius. For my sign Aquarius, it's going to be Uranus (ruler)-Saturn (co-ruler)-Eris (influence) and Eris is actually larger than Pluto.
 
K

katydid

Well-known member
one of the main way of deciding how to describe the meanings of new asteroids is by their 'natal charts.' Their discovery charts are delineated:


http://www.dancingwiththestarsastrology.com/chironbirth.htm



We can learn a lot about Chiron and its influences upon us by looking at its ‘natal’ chart—i.e. the chart of its discovery in 1977.

Birth of Chiron - Natal Chart
Nov 1 1977, 9:56 am, PST +8:00
Pasadena CA USA, 34°N05', 118°W09'
Geocentric Tropical Zodiac
Koch Houses, True Node


Perhaps the most striking and immediately apparent feature of Chiron’s ‘natal’ chart (based on the time when Chiron was ‘birthed’ into our waking consciousness) is the conjunction of Pluto, the North Node and the Midheaven in Libra, loosely accompanied by Venus. Even if the birth time is inaccurate (and this is possible) and this puts the Midheaven away from the others, the Libra placement of the Pluto/Node conjunction, loosely accompanied by Venus, says it all. Libra, when considered from the perspective of house rulerships, represents the ‘coming out’ or ‘coming of age’ point in the chart. It is the cusp between the lower and upper hemispheres of the natural horoscope—the point where our hypnotic focus on Self begins to give way to an acknowledgment of the Other in our lives.


The Pluto/North Node conjunction in Libra represents a call for the evolution of spirit. Within the context of Chiron’s natal chart, it clearly says that Healing and the evolution of consciousness/spirit are the same issue. The return to balance (of consciousness) is the Healing path. The death of our naïve, polarized, illusory perspectives is the Healing path. According to the zodiac of the Mysteries, aforementioned, this return path is clearly seen in the zodiac symbolism of the journey from Aries/Earth consciousness to Libra/Sun consciousness.
 
K

katydid

Well-known member
It is also striking to see where Chiron was when it was revealed to us. It was retrograde @ 3 Taurus:


Finally, we come to Chiron’s own placement: retrograde in Taurus in the 4th house. Chiron’s own path, and its promise for Humanity, is the eventual return to love and trust (Taurus) in the universe (our ultimate home). It is seeing that what we previously feared, suspected, quarantined from our lives and judged negatively (Scorpio) was all part of a larger plan of love. It is the breaking down of the barriers of our protective mechanisms (expressed through the Moon) by seeing what is, rather than what was lopsidedly perceived from the perspective of our lower nature. It entails the realization that we are, in all ways and without exception, looked after by the universe (the widest view of the 4th house). There are no accidents, no mistakes and no oversights. All things truly serve us in our lives. Love is everywhere when we have the eyes to see it and the open heart to feel it.
 
CapAquaPis

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
In my natal chart, Chiron is in 9' Taurus in the 11th house opposite Uranus in 25' Scorpio in 5th. What's the effect of Chiron opposite a planet, esp. the ruler of my sign Aquarius (Feb. 15, 1980).
 
L

LittleGreenDots

Member
I took at batch of books in yesterday to a used bookstore and got some astrology books in exchange. One of the books, "The Outer Planets & Their Cycles" by Liz Greene, had a few paragraphs that addressed my question. I didn't know it was in the book until I got it home and was leafing through the pages. Strange how that happened.
...Several people have asked me to talk about Chiron, and I am rather ambivalent about doing that, firstly because I don't know very much about him. Secondly, I am not sure how seriously Chiron will be treated by astrologers in the future. There was a great flurry of interest around the time the "miniplanet" was discovered between Saturn and Uranus, but in the end it may turn out a bit like the asteroids - a sort of specialised refinement rather than a main component of the horoscope. Anyway I think I will do what I can with Chiron now and get him out of the way before move on to individual horoscopes.

The first article on Chiron appeared before any real research had been gathered, and it had a kid of irresistible intellectual attractiveness. Because the planet or asteroid or whatever it is wandered into the solar system rather later than the other planets, Chiron is a maverick , a newcomer. The authors of the article apparently connected this maverick quality with the Sagittarian Centaur, who apparently wanders about shooting arrows off into space and chasing various things. Centaurs don't, in fact, behave like this. The two main mythic mythic figures, Chiron and Nessus, are quite the opposite. But the kind of intuitive logic that made the authors of the Chiron article assign it as the ruler of Sagittarius is terribly attractive. The deduction was that since Chiron is a wanderer and maverick among planets, therefore it should co-rule Sagittarius and should mean things like the wanderlust and desire for change and expansion in a person's horoscope.

I am not very happy about that interpretation. It came too quickly and without any real empiric backup. I think we must start experimenting with Chiron in our own charts and see what he does. I have done a little work with Chiron in client's charts, but no more than that. I've also tried another approach to Chiron, which is the thing I've already mentioned - the strange synchronicity between the time of a new planet's discovery and the emergence of the values the planet represents into collective consciousness. It's worth looking first at the discovery of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto to demonstrate this phenomena.
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Ms. Greene gave this lecture in April, 1980, five years after Chiron was discovered.

I wonder how the people who wrote those first articles about Chiron decided on the significant of this 'planet' and while I wasn't studying astrology then, I would imagine there was a bit of experimentation with different people proposing different meanings. Now, forty plus years later, the significant of Chiron is fairly uniform, though hopefully people are still doing their own research (which I'm pretty sure is going on.)

I don't have access to those early articles about Chiron but from what I'm reading, the initial meaning of Chiron was based on observing his wandering ways. I suppose another approach would be sudden illumination along the lines of Jakob Boehme. Another would be to note the location and start tabulating the sorts of situations/experiences that occur with aspects and transits.
 
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animatedoodle

Well-known member
CapAquaPis said:
In my natal chart, Chiron is in 9' Taurus in the 11th house opposite Uranus in 25' Scorpio in 5th. What's the effect of Chiron opposite a planet, esp. the ruler of my sign Aquarius (Feb. 15, 1980).
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Is your Chiron conjunct any planet? My BF has a wide conj Chiron Taurus (10 degrees) with the Sun in Taurus. However his Sun (1st house) is directly in opposition to Uranus in Scorpio (7th house) with a tight 1 degree orb. He has a stellium actually of Sun, Moon, Mercury all in a tight conjunction of about three degree difference of each other, with Chiron just hanging around them, in that wide orb, and that stellium is opposite Uranus.

You'll never meet a more predictable weirdo in your life. A complete recluse, a nihilist. Very trusting, and yet so paranoid. He is very self assured but is racked with guilt and preoccupation with the less fortunate, and his imagination is out of this world. I always joke that he is the most gothic humanist person I have ever met, yet he looks so normal.
His Taurus energy, constant unwavering, ASC, Chiron, Moon, Mercury, Sun, gets zapped at every contact he has with other people. Like a whip of electricity. He gets agitated so quickly..I wonder if Chiron been present there, have any influence? That Stellium opposition, that's what hurts him. His paranoia of such Scorpion magnitude is very deep. But the Chiron energy in the chart isn't very strong, orb wise. It's not even really making any significant aspects. But every time we make plans to go out, I can see him tense up. Go through his routine of mental preparation, and when we come home he has to talk it out, go through each sentence with that Scorpion memory, with Taurean judgement "was their intent innocent or were they trying to put me down?" And then it will switch to an Aquarius need for big picture "how can they just talk about Y when X is trying to talk about something important? Why are they so self centered? So rude. So selfish?"
Its no wonder Chiron stoic in the first house, unaspected even, acts like a pendulum. Bringing the conscious mind back to a subconscious wound. I don't know what that is, he is such a visionary, that I'm sure if he wasn't such a Lunar being, he could've used it as a drive to express or explore a solution to his existentional problem, but he just reflects it instead.
 
Bunraku

Bunraku

Well-known member
This is from Zarathu’s forum and what he has to say about Chiron:

It seems to me that often astrologers get too caught up in the chance name for the asteroid. While chance names for asteroids have proved amazingly accurate over time, they are not always spot on. In the case of the major asteroid Chiron, this may be the case. The mythology for Chiron puts it in the wounded healer category.

However today we want to look at another way to see Chiron. Martha Lang Wescott has spent her life studying asteroid and has written extensively on about 80 of them, as well as the invisible Trans-Neptunian POINTS.

For Martha, Chiron represents an original or different perspective. it shows by house and sign where you aren't bound by societal, cultural, parental or other strictures---where you have a unique slant on the issues of the House in question and the aspecting planets.

When retrograde, Chiron can be compared to the adolescent crises, where one seeks a break but is not quite able to escape from the dominance of a circumstance.


When in difficult placement, Chiron in the context can show a tendency to get around the system, or have it your way, or find a loophole. You simply refuse to conform.

By transit, Chiron can be described as a turning point, a maverick, a rule breaker.

Chiron can put one in a very insular grand trine kind of circumstance where as Poet Edna Saint Vincent Millay put it, making you believe that "only I, in such utter, ancient way, do suffer love" or whatever slings and arrows that come out way, we are the only one who could be so wounded.

Looking at this different way of seeing Chiron, from Zane Stein's Wounded healer, how does Chiron impact your chart?
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As far as I know, Stein just took with a meaning and ran with it, while Wescott actually had years research done.

I trust Zarathu on basically just about everything because he is probably one of the best astrologers I’ve ever encountered.
So which meaning is it!?
 
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