This forum opened my eyes to not taking vaccines

conspiracy theorist said:

A good question is why is everything in America so politicized? Even the issue of wearing masks divides along party lines. It's hilarious

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Why is everything in the US so politicised? I think it can be traced back to Pluto plowing though Capricorn, with Jupiter and Saturn heralding his journey.

In mundane astrology Capricorn rules - Heads of state, government and national prestige.

In 1940, Ebertin describes a Pluto transit as:

Force Majeure or Providence, Invisible Forces or Powers

The will or wish to exercise power, ruthless urge to influence the masses

Ruthless use of force or coercion, Inclination to incite,

A fanatical zeal to state one’s own doctrinal principles, TO AGITATE



So as Pluto slowly moved through Capricorn, amping up the zeal and urge for power, Jupiter and Saturn, two opposing influences, jumped onboard the train.

Some might say Jupiter /Saturn represents the Liberal/Conservative polarity.

And we have this polarity coming together in a great conjunction, with Pluto, in Capricorn, the sign of Government.


Here is how Liz Greene described the Pluto transit through Capricorn and how it affects the US:

https://www.astro.com/nat/natus2_e.htm

The national chart of the United States
2008 - 2024

In the horoscope of the United States, Pluto, as it moves through Capricorn, is opposing the Sun in the natal chart, reflecting major and irrevocable changes on many levels.

This aspect has occurred only once before in American history, during the period of the Revolutionary War. Although it is not intrinsically an aspect of war, it challenges the deepest definitions of what constitutes nationhood, and raises many issues of autonomy and the way in which the government is structured and how much authority it may or may not exercise.The deeper issues underlying the Revolutionary War concerned not only human rights, but also the autonomy of the individual states comprising the nation, and these issues may once again rise to the surface as new ways of defining the national identity are proposed.


Pluto, as it completes its transit through Capricorn, will also return to its own natal place: in other words, the United States is experiencing its Pluto return.

This suggests the completion of a great cycle, and a cementing of the fundamental values on which the Constitution is built. There may also be a serious reappraisal of issues concerned with the environment, as Capricorn is an earthy sign, and the use or abuse of natural resources may become a cause for not only profound concern but also profound change and a more enlightened attitude. The enormous resources available to the United States are reflected by Pluto in the 2nd house of the national chart, and it is possible that these will be approached with greater respect and care than ever before.


Whether or not you favour these changes personally, it would seem that a time has arrived when there is a great new opportunity to affirm the values and ideals of the original founding of the nation, applicable not only to government and to foreign relations, but also to the land itself and the resources inherent in it.


Liz Greene, 2005

I'm not against wearing masks per se, I do wear mask when I'm out on the street even if they only grant like an extra 5% protection, I would take those odds any day.

But I don't think it is ok to arrest or force people into wearing masks, like it occurs in some places.

Isn't "my body, my choice"?

Dirius said:

I'm not against wearing masks per se, I do wear mask when I'm out on the street even if they only grant like an extra 5% protection, I would take those odds any day.

But I don't think it is ok to arrest or force people into wearing masks, like it occurs in some places.

Isn't "my body, my choice"?

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I see a constant refrain, "The masks don't protect the wearer from the virus, they only provide protection for those around the wearer".

Have you seen this explanation?

oops....wrong place

david starling said:

I see a constant refrain, "The masks don't protect the wearer from the virus, they only provide protection for those around the wearer".

Have you seen this explanation?

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All the time -and makes sense, masks do stop saliva particles.

But I believe that imposing people to wear masks, is the reason why they choose not to wear them. If you just recommend people to wear masks, they will.

Also, according to pew research:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...itical-divide/

America is exceptional in the nature of its political divide

Supporters of Biden and Donald Trump believe the differences between them are about more than just politics and policies. A month before the election, roughly eight-in-ten registered voters in both camps said their differences with the other side were about core American values, and roughly nine-in-ten – again in both camps – worried that a victory by the other would lead to “lasting harm” to the United States.

The U.S. is hardly the only country wrestling with deepening political fissures. Brexit has polarized British politics, the rise of populist parties has disrupted party systems across Europe, and cultural conflict and economic anxieties have intensified old cleavages and created new ones in many advanced democracies. America and other advanced economies face many common strains over how opportunity is distributed in a global economy and how our culture adapts to growing diversity in an interconnected world.

Why is America cleaved in this way?

"....By comparison, America’s relatively rigid, two-party electoral system stands apart by collapsing a wide range of legitimate social and political debates into a singular battle line that can make our differences appear even larger than they may actually be. And when the balance of support for these political parties is close enough for either to gain near-term electoral advantage – as it has in the U.S. for more than a quarter century – the competition becomes cutthroat and politics begins to feel zero-sum, where one side’s gain is inherently the other’s loss. Finding common cause – even to fight a common enemy in the public health and economic threat posed by the coronavirus – has eluded us.


Americans both see this problem and want to address it. Overwhelming majorities of both Trump (86%) and Biden (89%) supporters surveyed this fall said that their preferred candidate, if elected, should focus on addressing the needs of all Americans, “even if it means disappointing some of his supporters.”

Something else in particular to note is that the country is going through its first Pluto return. Along with the politics, are the mass exoduses outside of Cali & NY, as well as the rest existential threat of China closing in on being the largest economy in the world. I recall one non-American politician describing the US as currently being "turned inward", which I thought was an incisive way to look at what is happening to the American collective. Is this what Pluto returns are made of?

Dirius said:

All the time -and makes sense, masks do stop saliva particles.

But I believe that imposing people to wear masks, is the reason why they choose not to wear them. If you just recommend people to wear masks, they will.

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That's true, unless they think the entire pandemic is a hoax to get control over the population.

conspiracy theorist said:

Something else in particular to note is that the country is going through its first Pluto return. Along with the politics, are the mass exoduses outside of Cali & NY, as well as the rest existential threat of China closing in on being the largest economy in the world. I recall one non-American politician describing the US as currently being "turned inward", which I thought was an incisive way to look at what is happening to the American collective. Is this what Pluto returns are made of?

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Wait....Is Pluto an astrological planet? Not everyone thinks so.

I wear masks in places that require me to do so -- work, stores and some public transportation services. Most of the time when I'm out my face is naked. Understandly, older people tend to be leery eyed while one-off sneezes tend to be met with people running for cover. Some can be disarmed when you meet them with levity, then all of a sudden they forget instantly that they were running away for dear life a moment ago.

conspiracy theorist said:

I wear masks in places that require me to do so -- work, stores and some public transportation services. Most of the time when I'm out my face is naked. Understandly, older people tend to be leery eyed while one-off sneezes tend to be met with people running for cover. Some can be disarmed when you meet them with levity, then all of a sudden they forget instantly that they were running away for dear life a moment ago.

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Hey, I got severely reprimanded just for bringing my own bag into a store. There are bagging stations outside of some stores where you can bag your own groceries, so you don't "contaminate" the store counters, then they spray those down.

As for the 6 feet apart rule, some people panic if someone happens to accidentally brush up against them in the aisle.

The occupancy limits cause long lines waiting to be allowed in, and in the early morning hours, it's "seniors only" so they won't have to wait outside.

david starling said:

That's true, unless they think the entire pandemic is a hoax to get control over the population.

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I don't see why those things would contradict one another.

You can think the virus is being taken advantage of to conrol the population, while still believing is deadly. In my country our president loved the pandemic. It gave him the excuse to shut-down the courts and congress, and to rule by executive order ("por decreto" in spanish)

I do think the virus is more hyped than its meant to be. The death rate is rather low, and the virus is mostly dangerous to people "at risk" which are the elder and individuals with compromised immune systems.

Granted, our lifestyle is sometimes so unhealthy, there may be a lot of people with weak immune systems.

The way I see it, those who can be out working, should be out working if they want to. There is no reason to forcebly lock them down.

conspiracy theorist said:

Something else in particular to note is that the country is going through its first Pluto return. Along with the politics, are the mass exoduses outside of Cali & NY, as well as the rest existential threat of China closing in on being the largest economy in the world. I recall one non-American politician describing the US as currently being "turned inward", which I thought was an incisive way to look at what is happening to the American collective. Is this what Pluto returns are made of?

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Its not just the U.S. Every country is the same, with a big political divide between left and right.

In Argentina we also have a massive divide between left and right (zurdos/left-wing and liberales/right-wing), so does Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, etc.

It is the fundamental disagreement between those who believe in freedom and self-reliance, and those who believe in a daddy-state.

Dirius said:

Its not just the U.S. Every country is the same, with a big political divide between left and right.

In Argentina we also have a massive divide between left and right (zurdos/left-wing and liberales/right-wing), so does Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, etc.

It is the fundamental disagreement between those who believe in freedom and self-reliance, and those who believe in a daddy-state.

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Freedom to have an early stage abortion?

david starling said:

Hey, I got severely reprimanded just for bringing my own bag into a store. There are bagging stations outside of some stores where you can bag your own groceries, so you don't "contaminate" the store counters, then they spray those down.

As for the 6 feet apart rule, some people panic if someone happens to accidentally brush up against them in the aisle.

The occupancy limits cause long lines waiting to be allowed in, and in the early morning hours, it's "seniors only" so they won't have to wait outside.

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Since the introduction of a policy that limited the amount the usage of plastic bags, folks have been carrying cloth and calico bags, sometimes bought at the store but oftentimes carried by customers.

Some establishments are more strict than others with sanitation. Like at a bank that I frequent they installed plexiglass at the teller stations and once a customer is finished with a transaction, the glass and area are wiped down before the next person goes.

The long line thing is probably felt worldwide. My remedy to that is to be earlier than everyone else (there's always someone earlier but I am able to quickly get what I need done anyway)

Dirius said:

Its not just the U.S. Every country is the same, with a big political divide between left and right.

In Argentina we also have a massive divide between left and right (zurdos/left-wing and liberales/right-wing), so does Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, etc.

It is the fundamental disagreement between those who believe in freedom and self-reliance, and those who believe in a daddy-state.

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There's also a similar divide in my country, although the division is more along the lines of class where one party tends to be more charitable to the wealthy than the other.

I'm not referring to the standard political conflict that every country has but the rise in intensity with the American situation -- not every country is currently experiencing rioting factions, mass exoduses and threats of states leaving to become an independent state, at least mine certainly isn't.

The article that Katydid linked alludes to the fact that the majority of Americans are fed up enough with the state of affairs that they rather the next president focus more on a uniting message than more bipartisan derisiveness.

conspiracy theorist said:

There's also a similar divide in my country, although the division is more along the lines of class where one party tends to be more charitable to the wealthy than the other.

I'm not referring to the standard political conflict that every country has but the rise in intensity with the American situation -- not every country is currently experiencing rioting factions, mass exoduses and threats of states leaving to become an independent state, at least mine certainly isn't.

The article that Katydid linked alludes to the fact that the majority of Americans are fed up enough with the state of affairs that they rather the next president focus more on a uniting message than more bipartisan derisiveness.

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But here is the problem with the bolded portion above--- I would LOVE to see this country united.

The problem is, the 'new' guy that claims to want to unite us, just led his minions on an illegal mission to gather millions of fraudulent votes. Many of us believe that the Dems literally stole the election by changing the rules in our voting system, and allowing unsigned, unverified mailed in ballots by the millions. And by allowing 'dead' people to be counted in the voting logs. And allowing illegals and people with Alzheimers, in hospitals, to send in 3rd party ballots by the thousands. Some counties had more votes logged in than they had registered voters. ...Not even discussing the new shady voting system that kept glitching and changing batches of votes from Trump to Biden. And the vans full of late night Ballot drop offs.

All of the above added millions of votes for Biden, all at the last minute. Many of the votes were added after the election date.

So why would we be eager to 'unite' with someone who we feel stole the election by fraud?

Also, when Trump won, the Dems and the press proudly created the RESIST movement, and boasted that Trump was not their Pre4sident and never would be. They continued with that attitude for the past 4 years.

So now suddenly, they want to disparage those who feel the same 'resistance' this time? Suddenly we should all 'come together' but under the umbrella of the divisive resistance movement from the past 4 years...

You could probably go one step further than belief, as this link outlines the changes made to the voting system amidst covid.

Now to dig even further into this would be for people with more skin in the game, but nevertheless the information is certainly there to sift through. The problem with diving through first hand material is that it's raw and less digested, but at least you come out the other side with "purer" conclusions if you're able to turn that data into useful intelligence.

EVERY President of the 21st Century has been considered illegitimate by many, starting with the 2000 Election.

I don't know of ANY President of the 20th Century who was considered illegitimate. Disliked, or even hated by some, but not illegitimate.

The country was already 25% mail-in voting prior to the 2020 Election, including 5 States that were 100% mail in, and a lot of States, like Florida and Arizona that were around 30% mail-in. So, not trusting mail-ins is a 2020 addition to the reasons for not trusting the results.

The same voting machines were being used in 2016 as now, so that's another 2020 addition to the reasons for not trusting the results.

Make of it what you will!

If we named it the "Trump Vaccine", would he be flattered?

He has been complaining about not getting enough credit for it.