is venus beseiged in this chart?
- Thread starter Lucedelsole
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Larxene
Well-known member
From a Hellenistic standpoint, no, it is not besieged because both the Moon and Mercury cast a ray in between Venus and Mars, which breaks the besiegement/containment/enclosure, whatever it's called. Now if those two planets don't actually cast a ray in between the two malefics and Venus, then it can be considered to be besieged....though, I feel that it's rather weak because of the distance.
Larxene Xenohart
Larxene Xenohart
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Larxene
Well-known member
It's not great but it's better than being done in by two malefics, especially Mars who is placed to its Detriment.
Terms like 'translation of light' and 'collection of light' were introduced by later astrologers, according to what I heard from Chris Brennan. So no, this isn't about translation of light.
What I meant was that the Moon casts a ray to 19 degrees Libra (which is a degree between Venus and Mars), while Mercury casts a ray to 16 degrees Libra (which is also a degree between Venus and Mars). This breaks the enclosure, based on what I read in Definitions and Foundations by Robert Schmidt.
Larxene Xenohart
Terms like 'translation of light' and 'collection of light' were introduced by later astrologers, according to what I heard from Chris Brennan. So no, this isn't about translation of light.
What I meant was that the Moon casts a ray to 19 degrees Libra (which is a degree between Venus and Mars), while Mercury casts a ray to 16 degrees Libra (which is also a degree between Venus and Mars). This breaks the enclosure, based on what I read in Definitions and Foundations by Robert Schmidt.
Larxene Xenohart
tsmall
Premium Member
Beseigement is about last and next. Is the last aspect from a malefic, and is the next to one? If not, then you haven't got beseigement. The best reference for this is Benjamin Dykes, ITA.
Larxene, Chris is an amazing Hellenistic astrolger, but the concepts of translation and collection date back to Dorotheus, if not earlier. Light is all about reflection, which gives rise to witnessing and testimony. Paul of Alexandria also covered these concepts in his book. Though perhaps Curtis would have more to say about it?
We could look to see who is casting a ray in between whatever is going on, or we could just use some common sense, and see that Venus is long separated from the sextile to Saturn, and is separated from the conjunction with Mars. Venus' next aspect will be the sextile from the Moon, but given all the possible Ptolemaic aspects, currently Venus is applying to no one, including once she changes her sign, since she will then be in aversion to every classical planet except the Moon and Jupiter. Once she does change her sign she will be applying to Jupiter, but for most purposes we would say that she will be void in her sign after the sextile with the Moon. That carries delineative value in any chart, but no. Venus is not beseiged.
Larxene, Chris is an amazing Hellenistic astrolger, but the concepts of translation and collection date back to Dorotheus, if not earlier. Light is all about reflection, which gives rise to witnessing and testimony. Paul of Alexandria also covered these concepts in his book. Though perhaps Curtis would have more to say about it?
We could look to see who is casting a ray in between whatever is going on, or we could just use some common sense, and see that Venus is long separated from the sextile to Saturn, and is separated from the conjunction with Mars. Venus' next aspect will be the sextile from the Moon, but given all the possible Ptolemaic aspects, currently Venus is applying to no one, including once she changes her sign, since she will then be in aversion to every classical planet except the Moon and Jupiter. Once she does change her sign she will be applying to Jupiter, but for most purposes we would say that she will be void in her sign after the sextile with the Moon. That carries delineative value in any chart, but no. Venus is not beseiged.
tsmall
Premium Member
It is up to you to decide if you would like to use the semi-sextile. Personally, I am a traditional astrologer and the semi-sextile is not an aspect, it is an aversion, so I would not consider it other than to say the planets cannot see each other.
When a planet is void, it is not seeking to connect, nor is any other planet seeking to connect with it. It could indicate a period of delay, that something will change about the situation, or as you say nothing will come of it.
Again my own opinion, but I wouldn't read anything into comparing a horary chart with a natal chart in that way.
tsmall
Premium Member
?? Can you explain how you got to your husband being Saturn in the first chart? And for what it's worth I'm not looking at the second chart, because you get one shot at a question, and that "shot" will hold the answers. (tik, don't make me use your battle axe on you...)
Your self sufficiency I'd buy, but the 2nd isn't your self worth. That will be shown by Jupiter, in detriment in the 9th house of wisdom and the 10th sign of career/status/reputation. Your state of mind will be shown by the Moon.
In the first chart he is Mercury and you are Jupiter, and I peg in this case Venus as your husband. Looks like Moon is translating light between him and your husband. Mercury is escaping combusion in your 12th house of secrets, with the Sun there illuminating the house, while Saturn is combust. Somehow, husband found out and that made things tricky?
You are neglecting the most important thing in the first chart. Mercury applies to Jupiter by square, with mutual reception. Unfortunately both of you are cadent and debilitated, and we are looking at a Jupiter/Mercury pairing in a relationship chart. The weight alone of the planets should give you pause. It looks like some sort of argument (square) after 4 units (if it wasn't weeks then possibly months) wherein you two want to get together but realize it isn't going to work.
tikana
Well-known member
i dont care what few astrologers think.... i already tested moiety issue. It just doesnt hold the water if you break the rules.
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tikana
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tsmall
Premium Member
