Random Thoughts, strictly Text

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=544586#post544586

Hello all,

I'm new to the forum although I have been lurking and following threads here for a couple of years...

I wonder if anyone can help me understand Saturn in debility better!

Saturn in my natal chart is very heavily debilitated, being in detriment in Leo, retrograde, and out of sect. Using Ptolemy's terms Saturn IS in his own terms, but using other sets of terms he has no dignity. In addition, the antiscion of Saturn falls conjunct Algol and in opposition to the Sun, Saturn's dispositor (and vice versa - the Sun's antiscion falls in opposition to Saturn), and Saturn and the Sun are contra-parallel by declination. They are in orb of a trine, but I tend to discount that as it is out-of-sign. The only true aspect Saturn forms is a sextile to Venus. Saturn is in my natal 9th house, ruling the 3rd (I am fairly certain of my birth time, and have spent quite a lot of time rectifying my chart using transits and progressions to house cusps as well as natal planets, although I can certainly see a case for my MC being in Leo rather than Virgo, making Saturn ruler of the Ic as well....)

With such a heavily debilitated Saturn, I would have expected Saturn's transits to be pretty dire.......but on the whole, they haven't been. In fact, largely the opposite. For instance, when Saturn transited my descendant and then Moon, far from relationships disintegrating and lots of emotional issues coming up, I went to work on a Kibbutz in Israel for a few months, where I had the most amazing time and made some great friends (the Moon does rule Cancer intercepted in the 9th house, and is disposited by Venus in the 11th - and ruling the 11th). On my return I immediately began a new job which I loved (in the jewellery industry - Venus in Libra ruling Moon in Taurus, Moon conjunct fixed star Rucha, associated with jewellers), and stayed there until the company folded in 2008 - when Saturn transited my Midheaven. I quickly found another post - in local government; very MC in Virgo! - which, whilst not exactly my dream job, was quite well paid and taught me a great deal.

That's pretty much how my Saturn transits have gone. The dreaded Saturn Return passed unnoticed. The only really 'bad' transits have been the squares of Saturn to the AC/DC axis and then Moon, Mercury, Nodes, Sun - although by the time Saturn squared my nodal axis, both times, the trauma was pretty much over.

The first time this Saturn transit hit - from my 3rd natal house - I was in my mid teens. I had been a model, straight-A student, despite a fairly grim home life. I began having panic attacks regularly and sleep terrors, and I was terrified that I was going mad. I was pretty sure that there was some mental illness affecting my father as well as alcoholism (he's probably bi-polar...and Caput Algol is a binary star - conjunct the antiscion of Saturn in my natal chart). I was scared that if I told anyone about the hallucinations, sleep paralysis, and (what I now know to be) panic attacks that I was experiencing, I would be told that I was mentally ill, just like my father. I stopped going to school and almost got expelled, although I pulled myself back together in time to sit my final exams.

The second time Saturn squared my AC/DC etc. from the 9th house, I cried for a year. I was at work and suddenly burst into tears; and could not stop. I told a friend that it felt as though for years and years I had been shoving stuff in 'the cupboard under the stairs' to sort out at a later date; and now some idiot had opened the door and everything had fallen out on top of me, and I had two choices...shove it all back in and buy a padlock, or sort out the junk. A recurring theme seemed to be how I had always tried to do the 'right' thing, was responsible and and worked hard - not just at work, but at Life, and yet constantly seemed to lose out to other people who were...more 'fun'. Less responsible. Less serious. Less workaholic. Your typical 'Saturn in Leo' stuff, really.

But apart from those couple of times, I can honestly say that Saturn's transits have never been a big deal for me. Some have been hard work, a sharp learning curve, but none have been awful. WHY? Why, when Saturn is in such bad shape in my natal chart? Okay, Saturn represents the father in a nocturnal chart, and I can see that Saturn's debilities represent my father quite well.... I can see an argument for rectifying my birth time backwards a few minutes so that Saturn rules the IC too, although the time given fits transits and progressions very well. My father is a Capricorn Sun with (I think) a Leo ascendant, and my mother has a Leo ascendant, so a Saturn-ruled IC and Sun-ruled MC would make sense, as I have noticed that in a lot of families the signs on angles and/or Sun and Moon signs tend to repeat themselves.

Regardless, my question is not about rectification! My question is why, when my natal Saturn is so badly afflicted, has transiting Saturn actually been pretty good to me? My mum has Saturn exalted and in triplicity in Libra conjunct the IC, ruling the 6th, 7th and 8th houses in her chart, and squaring her Sun and Venus conjunction in the 12th, and she has had some truly awful Saturn transits. I suppose it is an example of exalted or domicile planets NOT always operating in a positive or 'good' way, depending upon the houses they rule; exalted Saturn ruling two malefic houses in her chart and squaring planets in a third malefic house I guess exaggerates the bad. She has had rheumatoid arthritis since her teens (Saturn ruling 6th and on IC - RA has a genetic, inherited component), and the progression of the disease (and other events such as the deaths of her parents) can be easily tracked by transits and progressions in her chart.

Okay, sorry for rambling on! Any advice or comments much appreciated. I am still very much a beginner and I am in awe of the knowledge that some of the regulars here display. I know I could have posted this question in the forum for natal rather than Traditional astrology, but (a), I use Traditional methods, and (b), I am looking for a Traditional answer: Saturn should operate very negatively in my life, and yet he doesn't seem to. Yes, my father is a total waste of space at best, but apart from that, Saturn has been more friend than foe to me, and I cannot fathom why.

I hope I have attached the file showing my chart.

View attachment 46528
 

Gemini888

Well-known member
If you were to prove that you are an astrologer with something you have, what would you use? I have always pictured ancient astrologers having a bunch of peculiar tools at their disposal like telescopes or compasses. But nowadays when even someone with zero knowledge can draw a chart you would need something else to prove yourself.

Apart from some books, I would use a pencil case with the 12 signs embroidered on it. At least it shows my obsession :D
 

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
I don't have a favourite football formation per se. I played as a left and right back on my high school team. I also played those positions for an under 13 club, but in that capacity I was also a winger and would aid in the attack, often when we were counterattacking. In both teams the formation was 4-4-2 or its variations. I played as sweeper and deep midfield for an "inter-form tourney" which our class won that year - people gave me credit for providing the security in defense to which our attack could build on, I won the ball a lot and began plays from deep in our half of the pitch. I tend to be a scrappy player, but I do appreciate skillful moves and passing/set-ups.

These days I play sporadically, but in the capacity of a midfielder.

Waa gwan, my youth?

I love 4-4-2 aswell, that recently regain its popularity through Atletico Madrid's success in both domestic and continental competition. You know the rest. However, unlike your preferred fast pace wing, wide players in that formation would be the best if we lining up two central or attacking midfielder for tactical reasons, which is retaining possesions. And also defensively, midfielder on the wing tend to provide defensive cover for overlaping full back. I still remember how good Xavi and Inesta playing on the wing at Spanish national team.

It's nice for you on that championship experience. It should be a joyful feeling to win a championship as a team, though I play a local championship on basketball not soccer.

Agree, usually a full back should be comfortable playing as an anchor dude in front of the defense, Phillip Lahm is an example. Even more so if you have a good passing range.

How about soccer in carribean as a whole? I hear Jamaica dominate CONCACAF division.
 

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
One astrologer thought Jupiter is a teacher too.

"You are wearied with your many counsels; Let now the astrologers, Those who prophesy by the stars, Those who predict by the new moons, Stand up and save you from what will come upon you. "Behold, they have become like stubble, Fire burns them; They cannot deliver themselves from the power of the flame; There will be no coal to warm by Nor a fire to sit before!" Isaiah 47 13-14
 

Gemini888

Well-known member
What on earth?
Honestly I'm not sure which version of the bible does that come from either. The New International version is "All the counsel you have received has only worn you out! Let your astrologers come forward, those stargazers who make predictions month by month, let them save you from what is coming upon you." Sound like a positive assertion about astrologers to me.
 

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
Honestly I'm not sure which version of the bible does that come from either. The New International version is "All the counsel you have received has only worn you out! Let your astrologers come forward, those stargazers who make predictions month by month, let them save you from what is coming upon you." Sound like a positive assertion about astrologers to me.

It is a desecration of Christian beliefs. You should learn to read horary properly when to crop the grass before mocking others.

"Astrology is an essence and dividing it into angles is a man-made technique." -Hakim Al-Ghayat ch.2 (Hashim Attalah transl).

I follow Al-Masih's will not man made's will. Period.
 

Gemini888

Well-known member
I doubt anyone learns anything from being squeezed/strangled to death and then being swallowed whole by a python, you know. But again that is only my personal opinion and such.

Y
I was just following up the convo with David about Saturn being a teacher :)
 

ynnest

Well-known member
I was just following up the convo with David about Saturn being a teacher :)

Yeah I was just joking around a little bit. See beyond Saturns dark suit and I believe he can in the end/longterm be one of the most joy bringing teachers of them all if you endure his hard lessons with the right attitude and then reap the stone hard diamond rewards from his pocket that has been earned by true hard work, sincerity and Brutal honesty in regards to oneself.

Y
 
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petosiris

Banned
Honestly I'm not sure which version of the bible does that come from either. The New International version is "All the counsel you have received has only worn you out! Let your astrologers come forward, those stargazers who make predictions month by month, let them save you from what is coming upon you." Sound like a positive assertion about astrologers to me.

Sounds like people don't bother to read even a translated chapter of these books, let alone study the scriptures (what other books are so often misquoted without being even fully read?).
 

Ukpoohbear

Well-known member
Hereditary family karma: when JFK and RFK killed Marilyn Monroe, got killed themselves and then their granddaughter dies shortly before Marilyn Monroe’s 57th anniversary of her death.

“Death is the latest in a long lost of tragedies for the Kennedy family.” CNN
 
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