The 12th house and its psychological influence

Love2Know

Well-known member
your mercury isnt ascendant ruler and it isnt that important in your chart, gemini and virgo are empty in your natal if im not mistaken (of course the ruler of those 2 houses is still mercury in 12th)

the ancients were spot on, i love fatalism (it's the way life is), im an extreme fatalist myself, i hate the term "free will", no such thing, people use that to make themselves feel better, man has no influence over his life destiny

i hate political correctness, beating around the bush, sugar coating stuff....

if it's white tell me it's white, if it's black tell me it's black, if it's little bit white little bit black then tell me it is grey

what's the point in studying astrology if you believe in free will, these 2 arent compatible

no offense to anyone, just my opinion of course
believe you can have the exact same chart and have a very diffrent life and personality. My main flaw i guess is i am riddled with anxiety and worry. I can out worry any old country grandmother. I cannot actually watch the news.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
.... "Bad things...."

The 12th House is the house of Mourning.
One of the sad facts of being mortal (a condition from which humans suffer) is death. Those who continue living face mourining in the face of the death of a loved one. Sad fact. No escape, no exceptions.

And now we call this "bad". But it is not bad. IT JUST IS. We fail to consider that "mourning", with its great pain and potentially life-changing effects, may bring us much good. But the good comes dressed in a mourning cloak, in sackcloth and ashes, with much gnashing of teeth....

Consider the yioung woman I mentioned in the earlier post. I saw the rape through the 12th house...raped by a hospital orderly in the dead of night while she was a 12 year-old patient.... What I "saw" was "something hidden away in the personal unconscious". When I mentioned this to the woman,, her reaction was immediate and overwhelming -- because the statement had unchained the hidden memory.

The "event" had several levels:

First, the event itself. A rape by an unknown or hidden assailant.
Second, the burying of the memory of the event in the personal unconscious. The event, per se, was so painful and the mind of the girl so unprepared to deal with it....that it had to be hidden away where it could not be accessed.
Third, The exhumation of the buried material by a bumbling astrologer. Now brought to cosciousness, this same material (experience) had to be faced and dealt with (a long process).

As long as the experience lay buried in the personal unconscious, it affected the entire life with the native having no way of knowing what was wrong, why she acted in certain self-defeating ways until the event was unearthed. It is in the dealing with the pain (injustice, violation of the girl's right to self-determination and all the rest) that the "good" comes from this horrible experience.

Life contains, and brings us, "bad" things...death of a loved one, abandonment by parents or others, psychological problems (I am still trying to get used to the idea that I am not King of the World -- **** reality), sickness, financial ruin, dishonor... Suffering is a necessary, vital element of life -- without it there would be no change, no progress, no evolution.

In large part it is our own failure to understand "good and evil" that gets in the way of understanding the Twelfth House. That failure is fundamentally spiritual. In the Bible (Isaish 45:7) God says that he himself "creates evil". Do we not notice that in the heavens above us Mars and Saturn run their courses, the two Malefics. "Evil" is part and parcel of reality. We cannot avoid or escape its reach, and we would be foolish to do so if it were in our power.

Auschwitz is a good metaphor for the 12th House. I am a Jew or a homosexual. It is the dark of night and there is a knock on the door. Cattle car. Lineup. Go left, go right (live or die), at the whim of the SS officer greeting you. Suppose you were lucky and weren't sent to the showers immediately. You are stripped of your Identity. You become Nothing, only a number tattooed on your wrist. Cold, starving, beaten.... Victor Frankl (Man's Search for Meaning), who survived Auschwitz, says that men in such a situation will either become more human, or will become beasts. Same conditiions, but the inherent nature of each man -- coupled with his choices -- will become manifest under such extremes. The book is worth reading if for nothing more than building our understanding of the 12th House.

Perhaps when looking at the 12th House we see "imprisonment" but fail to notice "liberation".
 
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Love2Know

Well-known member
Umm im sure people with no 12 house placements had worse luck or hard experiences than others.. like living in a war zone with a super positive chart.. lol
 

LyP

Well-known member
I have Mercury, Pluto and Sun in the 12th house

is true that I had an absent father,
Pluto can mean you ran the risk of life while in his mother's womb,
what is true for me.
I do not know more about this position although

mercury, I do not know what to say about ...
 

SunW

Well-known member
According to Zondag, Mecrury in the 12th house might mean lack of enough communication in the early years or some difficulties in this area.

A child or a teenager with a secret diary; parents that had problems with their education - they might not have the education they have always wanted. Talents in something ruled by Mercury - writing, teaching. A parent that had a writing talent but did not develop it and now the child has a job in this area.
 

Bunraku

Well-known member
Every time a planet transits in my 12th house, disgusting thoughts / thoughts that make me cringe always surface my mind. Embarrassing memories, etc. Icky :sick:
 

Blaze

Account Closed
I have a 12th house natal Mars which squares Saturn in the tenth, Jupiter in the third and Neptune in the 9th! yay! :happy: :p

I also have Vesta in Taurus having a party in the 12th sextile Sun in the 3rd, Trine Uranus and Neptune in the 9th.
 

LyP

Well-known member
According to Zondag, Mecrury in the 12th house might mean lack of enough communication in the early years or some difficulties in this area.

A child or a teenager with a secret diary; parents that had problems with their education - they might not have the education they have always wanted. Talents in something ruled by Mercury - writing, teaching. A parent that had a writing talent but did not develop it and now the child has a job in this area.

o.m.g
my father has dyslexia O_O
but,has a stellium in gemini (mercury also)
 

Love2Know

Well-known member
My son has a mars 12th.. should i put him in therapy right away? Omg the stuff i read on it is making my skin crawl! Such as can show severly abused childhood????? What the heck. My husband is very kind but definitly is very atheletic and competive. I am worried he might put my son in violate sports when he is older.. as he is very into these sports himself.. but we shall see.
My mother was abused as a child but does not have 12th house stuff but an 8th house moon.
Oh my merc 12th leo.. i forgot i was in the hospital as a child a lot.. and my parents said i was born worried. They said i was too sensitive for the way school taught me about germs and strangers. I would cry hysterically after these lessons and my parents would have to pick me up early because no one else could calm me down.
 
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Blaze

Account Closed
My son has a mars 12th.. should i put him in therapy right away? Omg the stuff i read on it is making my skin crawl! Such as can show severly abused childhood????? What the heck. My husband is very kind but definitly is very atheletic and competive. I am worried he might put my son in violate sports when he is older.. as he is very into these sports himself.. but we shall see.
My mother was abused as a child but does not have 12th house stuff but an 8th house moon.

Whoa, relax Love2bro, lol. 12th house Mars is a tough position, sure, but I really believe that if you just be the supportive mother I think you are, he'll be fine. :)

And with a 12th house mars, your son might be secretly competitive (I know I am lol), so some sports might be a good outlet for him. :smile:
 

Love2Know

Well-known member
Whoa, relax Love2bro, lol. 12th house Mars is a tough position, sure, but I really believe that if you just be the supportive mother I think you are, he'll be fine. :)

And with a 12th house mars, your son might be secretly competitive (I know I am lol), so some sports might be a good outlet for him. :smile:

He comes from a lot of atheltic and competitive and buisness people on his fathers side. I guess i have to look at his aspects too.. at least his moon is unafflicted. Actually no there is a sketchy moon aspect..

Interesting i read if mars is near ascendent it can be interpreted as 1st house mars... confusing.http://www.myastrologybook.com/Mars-in-the-twelfth-house-12th-house.htm

So having a mars 12 and conjunct ascendant makes it less secret??
 
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Blaze

Account Closed
This article reminds us of the dangerous times in which old astrologers lived and how fear controlled many things. This outdated fear based astrology is not healthy or helpful. http://tuesdayastrology.com/2013/01/27/thoughts-on-the-12th-house/


Good post, love2bro. I personally don't think there are any "Bad" aspects in anybodies chart. Just hard aspects that need more work than others.

12th house Mars (Scorpio Mars right?) conjunct the ASC might make his hidden competitive side more visible (If anyone else knows more on the subject then correct the hell outta me).

His Mars must be realllllllly close to his first house. Are you sure of the birth time? cause if it's even a minute off he might be a first house mars.
 

LyP

Well-known member
well, I already read about this position is that it can have the aggression and competitiveness repressed in the first part of childhood , everything in the house 12th is diluted,with mars in the 12th house, the space for the person to act is diluted.
I do not think this bad position, because the person can act stealthily (like detective lol)
it is a privilege if you think of some points
I think, put he in sports,and encourages him to be one of the best in school are good options
avoid marital discord also
and also let him do some things alone
and seek his opinion
for him to learn to make decisions
it needs to have a clear and defined idea than is strength and assertiveness, this is only what the house 12th says

The closer a planet is rising, but it is apparent, but being in the 12th house is still hidden

with Mars near the ascendant in the 12th house he can give the impression that it is a strong person, but no one quite knows why. haha

this article is strange because 4° or 5° degrees already stay in the first house anyway '-'
or I do not understand anything? o_O
my mathematics is horrible
 
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Love2Know

Well-known member
Good post, love2bro. I personally don't think there are any "Bad" aspects in anybodies chart. Just hard aspects that need more work than others.

12th house Mars (Scorpio Mars right?) conjunct the ASC might make his hidden competitive side more visible (If anyone else knows more on the subject then correct the hell outta me).

His Mars must be realllllllly close to his first house. Are you sure of the birth time? cause if it's even a minute off he might be a first house mars.

Pro right..hmm my mom said she confirmed it.. the time
Well i have a fire moon temper for sure. I will try not to yell around him for sure. I do yell at my family and husband. I get really pissed my sun op mars i guess. I was put in art therapy for anger as a kid i was too competitive with my older brother.
Plus my baby has that sensitive pisces moon 4th pisces like 12th..

Im making myself sound bad. Im really close with my family and brother. I can just be emotionally intense and fast to react.
Honestly 12 mars sounds like my husband.
 
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Unni

Well-known member
Hey there.

I have my sun, mercury and mars in the 12th house. It's a tricky spot. I know i had a lot of aggression inside and I would always look for things to do in order to release it. I used to run a lot and also did a lot of martial arts as a kid. Now as a grown up I was into acrobatics and martial arts but I had to quit due to a surgery i had, well more likely because of my paranoias after the surgery.


Talk with your son and see how he feels inside, if he has all this inward agression as well.

For me, mercury and sun in the 12th suck. I apologise for that, it was a hard placement for me. Always had troubles communicating and being understood, always kept myself back and isolated. I still have issues with properly communicating and getting out of my shell.
 

Iced8Ace

Well-known member
I have a 12th house Mars in Leo, as well as a fire grand trine (8th house sun Aries, Jupiter Sagittarius 4th house), quincunx moon and saturn.

I cannot stress more that you have to get this boy in a sport of some sort. It's not so he will get hurt; (don't be an overprotective mom, come on. He will need your support, not discouragement) you need to build his confidence.

12th house mars means being afraid of your own aggression because of inner inhibitions, depending on the aspects made. Even if there is a plethora of good aspects, he will not release his mars unless he is told it is OK to do so. He will have low energy and not be confident aggressively until he can put aside whatever makes him feel afraid and restricted. Worst case scenario: he bottles it up inside.

Teach him how to vent effectively and in an aggressive, yet safe environment. 12th house also implies matters leaning towards the arts, so music, drawing, drama would also be encouraged.
 

FindMeInTheStars

Well-known member
I have Uranus in my 12th house with Scorpio being my Ascending sign.

I am kind of like the Moon really where I have 1 side hidden and the other side is what I show to people and I struggle sometimes with which one I prefer.

But that is life and we soldier on regardless. I do not believe a house is 'bad'. It is our way of looking at things and how we choose to deal with things that matter.

I understand how Uranus in my 12th affects me. I am glad I know because it helps when making decisions and understand why I chose to do something.

I think astrology really does help us know ourselves better. It brings peace in a way :joyful:. I am glad I found this sight.
 

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Love2Know

Well-known member
Yes thanks for the advice... well his chart is basiclly all leo and scorpio besides his pisces moon... no earth besides pluto cap or air planets besides true node libra.. he is definitly being put in lots of sports this was predetermined before his birth. He comes from a family of talented athletes and extremely competitive men. My dad is more into the mental health profession with a 12th house moon and is very airy and "softer" intellectual. He mad me do art therapy as a child to help express my anger i guess this can be associated with 12th merc.. i wanted to do sports but my health wasnt good. As i grew my health got better. I find my son though a baby is very vocal and expressive... but lots of hospital visits and even close monituring in pregnancy. He is fine thank god. He is just thin and not as fat as most babies but a lot longer. He is super aware and hitting milestones fast.. but again most babies are generally buddahs... he is getting there now. Also his mars is very close to first house but 12th in asto.com. i find though as a person i am very into self expression and people always express themselves freely around me. His dad double scorpio is very emotionally secretive and a great athelete who got to travel for his sport. The down side is when my husband cannot workout he is awful to be around.. too intense and hard on himself.
 
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nix

Active member
Hi, I don't know what the original post was as it was deleted, but in light of the title I will add my experience with the 12th house.

I have Saturn retrograde in the 12th house, "the renowned malefic in the big bad unconscious". It's true it can be hard being your own worst enemy but at least it's in your power to change that.
I've struggled with social anxiety, depression and overall fear of abandonment, invasion and confrontation. I felt enormous guilt for pretty much everything most of my life. I took the emotional burdens of every person in my life on my shoulders. I don't attribute all of that to poorly placed (and aspected) Saturn but I believe it plays an integral part in my psychological make up.
I did have a mentally and emotionally absent father (also mother, but that's a story for another thread) and my parents got divorced when I was young. But as said before many with 12th house Saturn don't have the same experience and likewise many with the same experience don't share my 12th house Saturn.

So what to make out of it?
Solitude gives me structure. I take time alone to work on myself. I go to therapy weekly. I retreat for days if necessary to take care of myself, to keep myself mentally and otherwise healthy. Meaning no socializing of any kind, talking only if necessary. It isn't self imposed, it comes naturally to me. I need it, to keep me sane. The world will wait. What's a few days compared to a lifetime in pain.
Saturn is the timekeeper, the stern teacher, the reward after the work is done. 12th house is the unconscious, the big sea where all the energies flow together, no limits, or to many limits. Nothing is clear, nothing is for certain. Fears, traumas, anything you didn't or couldn't face, you can when entering within.
I believe that I can make Saturn work for me if I work on my hidden self.

It's also good, I believe, to ask about the things that you think lurk in your 12th house. Many people close to you may have more insight on it than you. I think in the 12th, most times, you're only fooling yourself. Others can feel it bubbling under the surface (of course if they're susceptible to these kinds of things). It helped me to ask. I was surprised at the accuracy of their words. My reply was: "I you knew all this why didn't you say anything?" :happy:

Best,
nix
 
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