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Horary Questions on Lost items and missing people Discuss lost items horaries, also inquiries on the whereabouts of missing people.


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  #51  
Unread 01-12-2014, 09:27 AM
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poyi poyi is offline
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Re: Missing kid

Yes I was confident at the time of missing according to the event chart the native was ok but surely massive indicator of major life changing event to his family and home as he left his family by his own will not abducted as my opinion. But she asked me to predict how he is now from his natal while I asked her to cast horary chart a few times for few months. Analyzing the natal/progression/solar arc can be done but will take really heavy duty of time while I am still in learning process. So I am still waiting for her to actually cast a horary.

If you are interested you would offer better insights. As I am only learning.
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  #52  
Unread 01-12-2014, 09:53 AM
Lena_ Lena_ is offline
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Re: Missing kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold View Post
That is healthy and natural. But if you honestly feel that the chart shows the missing person to be in danger, or possibly even dead, are you being honest with yourself and your client by not revealing it?

To put the boot on the other foot, if you saw the significator of the missing person was well dignified and well clear of any malefics, would you be happy to inform your client that their loved one looked to be safe and well?

If you feel confident enough to give an honest answer when you see a happy outcome in a missing person chart, you should be confident enough to give an honest answer if you see that the quesited is in trouble.

Or. . . don't accept missing person questions.

The client usually knows that astrology is not an infallible art. What they want is some reassurance that everything will probably turn out OK, or to prepare themselves for the worst if that seems indicated in the chart. They are looking for some insight into the murk, not history written before it happens. They are looking for emotional support and astrologer-as-councillor is part of the skill set essential for the professional astrologer. Training as a councillor is - I would suggest - as important to a professional astrologer as being able to read and delineate a chart. Such training gives the astrologer the tools to deal with just such a situation as you describe.
There is a Huge difference between astrology done in an internet forum and in private, Harold.

I guess a professional astrologer having a client ought to tell what they see in a chart -good or bad. After all, they asked for the analysis.

But I beg to differ when it comes to discussion forums where part of the analysis could be taken out of the general contex. If an opinion is stated, most of the times there is a backing-up astrological analysis. Yet rarely the story behind the opinion is written down in a whole 'cause that would take half of time online.
I remember a case where a mother was seeking guidance for she remembered a murder case and *something* similar was in transits in her daughters' chart. [...] Of course nothing happened to the daughter -except from experiencing a hysteric mother.

On the other hand, claiming a fatal result isn't much of a help itself. Even in such cases the body is still to be found. Personally I'm lousy in directions yet if I weren't, I'd try to help locating the remainings. That, could help the case to close; Not the fatal reading.

If fatal readings aren't going to provide an actual, helpful result in real life, I don't see the worth in posting them. If we are to do it, let's do it right.

Lena,
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  #53  
Unread 01-12-2014, 01:03 PM
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Re: Missing kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
I would use the relative strengths of the dispositors of:
-the Part of Captivity (for abduction possibility) = ascendant + lord of saturn's sign placement - saturn
vs
-the Part of Accidents = ascendant + saturn - mars

...to estimate which might more likely have occured.

In the reference chart the Part of Captivity falls @ 7 Leo, in the 10th whole sign house, disposited by the Sun; the Part of Accidents falls @ 25 Aquarius in the 4th whole sign house, disposited by Saturn: both Parts are strong by angularity; however, with dispositor of the Part of Accidents, Saturn, being posited in the 1st house, and conjunct the NN/SN axis ("fate axis"), while the Sun being in the 11th house (house of gains, hopes, wishes, the "Good Spirit", etc) I lean toward Saturn being more importantly indicated here than the Sun, and so I lean toward Accident (rather than abduction) as a potentially more likely indication of what occured...
I haven't dealt with Lots so far, but it was fun enough! I might be wrong as I did calculations by hand but, I've found:
  • Part of Captivity (AC+L.Saturn's House*-Saturn) = Sagittarius 14.13/2nd ~Jupiter quinc.@+01.33
  • Part of Accident (AC+Saturn-Mars) = Aquarius 26.49/4th ~Mars quinc.@-00.55
  • Part of Journeys -Air (AC+Uranus-C9*) = Aquarius 16.09/4th ~Moon sext.@-0.56
  • Part of Journeys -Land (AC+C9*-R9) = Aquarius 16.58/4th ~Moon sext.@-00.07
  • Part of Journeys -Water (AC+15.00Cancer-Saturn ~a.m.) = Cancer 25.23/9th ~ Mars conj.@-1,21

I've found also a
Part of Fate/Fatality/Tragety (AC+Saturn-Sun) = Capricorn 22.01 with no close orb

What I've read so far on Lots, you're supposed to pay attention to close orbs aspects -Ptolemaic only- and placements by sign and House(?)

As an interesting side note, PoJ(air) and PoJ(land) are also conjuncting the natal Mars. There is missing data on natal Moon as the position could be +/- 5 degrees from a noon birth..

The AC spreads in a 30 minutes span. That, could place the AC anywhere from 16.58 to 25.43 Scorpio and that, in turns, would add to any PoF in maximum, 08.45 degrees -in case the chart is being read as an Event one.

Thus, maybe with the exception of Lots using Cusps, I'd think to use a larger orb, up to 8 degrees and applying only aspects..

Lena

*= I've used Equal house Campanus system for the Arabic Parts, so Cusp9= Cancer 12.47 and Lord of Saturns' House is 12th, on 05.12 Libra

Last edited by Lena_; 01-12-2014 at 10:10 PM.
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  #54  
Unread 01-12-2014, 01:15 PM
Harold Harold is offline
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Re: Missing kid

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Originally Posted by Lena_ View Post
There is a Huge difference between astrology done in an internet forum and in private, Harold.
Couldn't agree more.

But Poyi said When I am talking directly to the family of the missing person in question I felt emotionally clouded and mostly of course due to lack of skills so afraid of unnecessary disappointment or false hope. And that is what I was addressing.

As for discussing missing persons on this forum, either we can be frank and open about what we see in the chart or missing persons should not be discussed in an open forum.

My 2pence worth.
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  #55  
Unread 01-12-2014, 01:46 PM
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Re: Missing kid

In actual reality, I have no problem of calling family on phone and telling family to their face that they family member had just passed. The real different though, I could do whatever possible to actually give out practical helps like making a cup of tea, preparing last viewing, tidying up the deceased patient, giving them advices of what to do after death, like certificate and various type of funerals etc. At the very basic minimal I can actually observe their facial, body expression and tone of voice to adjust my communication to maximize the quality of care. In real life, I have no problems with those things. Seriously on internet is totally blind environment.

My greatest blockage here as finding it extremely hard on dealing with death with astrology. If I managed to see that the person is now dead through charts, but I have pretty much nothing to practically offer to comfort or helping them through the difficult situation.

I think myself just in the process of finding my way of coping system in astrology when I have nothing practical to channel my grief for them. Or I simply need to avoid such situation. But then I will be struggling with myself asking myself why I didn't help at all. Just my dilemma. Eventually I will learn what to do. With this current thread is fine. Cause I am not dealing with the family and just purely charts for learning purposes only.
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  #56  
Unread 01-12-2014, 01:49 PM
Lena_ Lena_ is offline
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Re: Missing kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold View Post
As for discussing missing persons on this forum, either we can be frank and open about what we see in the chart or missing persons should not be discussed in an open forum.
Oh.. There are cases and cases..
Like when the charts suggests the astrologer to just keep the mouth shut. It would be hypocritical to summon "unradicality" and hide behind it as, imho, horary astrologers did in the past. It would be "politically correct" but that never was my strongest point.

I've stumbled upon three such charts so far with one of them pending in results. Two showed high risk for the querent and the other one, risk for the quesited, if the querent had insights.

Maybe the issue is *how much* we believe in our own astrology.. Dunno.

eta
I personally don't believe in a chart to have to be examined as radical or otherwise, to be read. The above comments concern myself and think-alikes only.

Last edited by Lena_; 01-12-2014 at 08:51 PM.
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  #57  
Unread 01-12-2014, 03:28 PM
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Re: Missing kid

And this is what I estimated to be the Horary Chart based onto the starting time of this thread..

I'm awaiting to be corrected by Mossadrai, ofcourse.

Last edited by Lena_; 01-13-2014 at 01:16 PM. Reason: removing false chart
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  #58  
Unread 01-12-2014, 06:18 PM
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Re: Missing kid

Wow, the thread evolved very fast, and I couldn't follow it. I'll try to catch the pace.

Meanwhile, I have discovered that the boy was born at 6 PM. Probably the time is not right, but as an estimate, I think it is awesome! Very interesting to notice how the AC looks like to be in the Pluto/Jupiter Midpoint that Lena commented.



I'll have a look at the horary chart you posted, Lena!
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Last edited by mossadrai; 01-12-2014 at 06:21 PM.
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  #59  
Unread 01-12-2014, 09:59 PM
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Re: Missing kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by mossadrai View Post
Wow, the thread evolved very fast, and I couldn't follow it. I'll try to catch the pace.

Meanwhile, I have discovered that the boy was born at 6 PM. Probably the time is not right, but as an estimate, I think it is awesome! Very interesting to notice how the AC looks like to be in the Pluto/Jupiter Midpoint that Lena commented.



I'll have a look at the horary chart you posted, Lena!
If this is within accurate range of estimate birth time. The natal square of Mars in Cancer and Saturn in Libra are in mutual malefic placed in the house of fun and game and house of death/sufferings while Saturn by traditional also rules the 12th isolation and disappearance.

Mars is in rulership over 2nd and 9th so Mars as the dispostor the modern Uranus in Aries and therefore the modern rulership over 12th. Mars and Saturn square seem to be perfected in the unit of 3 approaching aspect in progression. The dispositors of Mars in Libra as combusted Venus in Virgo, Mercury in Leo, mutual reception with Sun in Virgo. Jupiter in Taurus placed in 3rd as the traditional ruler over ascendant is disposed by combusted Venus at DC. Modern ruler Neptune Rx not sure the timing of it hitting the natal ascendant or when it turned stationary and direct. Also can consider supplementary Chiron on ascendant and the motion in progression toward ascendant.

Moon if accurate, is at the bendings of the nodal axis, which is the ruler of the Mars, and her exaltation in Taurus of Jupiter, her detriment in 11th. Progressed Moon should be traveling in natal 8th.
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  #60  
Unread 01-13-2014, 03:37 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Missing kid

Note that, by Pauline profection, the natal ascendant has profected into the 3rd whole sign natal chart under Taurus (Pauline profection counts the time of birth as "year 1")-and, the SN is transiting Taurus at this time (and at the time of the disappearance) Also, the 3rd house has to do with short journeys (could even be walks in or near the neighborhood)-yet another testimony for something untoward possibly having occured to the child...

Last edited by dr. farr; 01-13-2014 at 03:57 AM.
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  #61  
Unread 01-13-2014, 01:14 PM
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Re: Missing kid

I stand corrected on the Horary chart attempted on the time this thread started. And here goes (hopefully) the correct one.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Missing Boy - Horary.jpg (92.8 KB, 6 views)

Last edited by Lena_; 01-13-2014 at 01:21 PM.
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  #62  
Unread 01-13-2014, 01:29 PM
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Re: Missing kid

Yes, Lena!

Now it is right :-)

How would you analyze this horary of a new thread? The boy is Venus and I am Mars?
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  #63  
Unread 01-13-2014, 02:29 PM
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Re: Missing kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by mossadrai View Post
Yes, Lena!

Now it is right :-)

How would you analyze this horary of a new thread? The boy is Venus and I am Mars?
That is good to know! The other chart didn't provide any connection to the date of the incident and it left me puzzled.

We could start with you Venus, the boy Mars:

I was happy to see PoF in your 9th of education (I wouldn't call it hopes/wishes for Mercury holds no dignity). Venus in 4th (past), having conjuncted Mercury. Venus rules own 8th while Mercury own 12th and 9th. A second testimony in seeking knowledge, for 8th House matters. Venus rx may speak of withhelding something, maybe it was the info.
No intercepted Houses so nothing 'out of the order' there..
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  #64  
Unread 01-13-2014, 02:44 PM
mossadrai mossadrai is offline
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Re: Missing kid

Interesting, then. The chart is about me, and the kid is the 7th. Mars in 12th shows how the whereabout of the kid is completely unknown to me, but at the same time we can be close to some answers, since Mars is close to the ASC.

The ruler of the 9th conjunct Venus in the ASC, I would say indicates my interest in missing cases, specially of children, because I can only imagine how painful this is for the family. Besides that, there are the facts you mention, trying to seek knowledge regarding missing cases and 8th matters (violence, rape, murder, G-d forbid).

Absolutely I was withholding some information, Venus RX, because I didn't want to reveal the name of the child, nor to expose the family in any way, and I tried to avoid revealing too much details on the case and the location everything happened. You see, for example, the matter of the gay couple that was probably seen with the kid in Europe. This is something I knew before hand but decided not to tell, because I didn't know if this was a cold lead or a hot one. I just mentioned it when there was indication of a kidnap and travel overseas.

Interesting also to see that both Venus and Mercury are combust. So even though I want to help, maybe there is nothing much I can do at the moment. Mars is square to my Venus, strenghtening this line, that maybe there is nothing that I can do (maybe what I do is even a little harmful for the boy?).

Saturn in the 1st shows this is a severe and hard thing for me, and that I take it maybe too serious and I am too worried about the case. Saturn is working harmoniously with Mercury and Venus, in a sextile.

Finally, interesting to notice Jupiter in 10th, maybe giving a little hope of success in the analysis. Also, the 10th is the 4h of 7th, thus indicating that I may be seen as some kind of mentor or helping person to the parents of the kid. Jupiter is also ruling my 3rd, which I think it's good.
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  #65  
Unread 01-13-2014, 02:52 PM
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Re: Missing kid

Check again your intro and see how you posted/analysed the issue. I might be wrong but I believe you were seeking for answers to what happened -past tense. The tension of Venus towards squaring Mars may as well show your 'ideas', as predeterminded.

This is not a future question (up to a point). It is a past-event horary question.. Or at least I believe it should be examined as such.

Imo, applying aspects are not the case just now.

Last edited by Lena_; 01-13-2014 at 07:41 PM.
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  #66  
Unread 01-13-2014, 03:24 PM
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Re: Missing kid

Oh, I understand now! And do you think this horary can help in something related to the case or is more of an analysis of my relation to the problem?
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  #67  
Unread 01-13-2014, 03:29 PM
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Re: Missing kid

Did you guys just cast a chart of the beginning of the thread to test from another perspective of the nature of the case? Lol this is a very wild idea. So very clearly our consciousness are fully connected expressed and recorded or pre written by the stars!
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  #68  
Unread 01-13-2014, 04:35 PM
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please get back to astrology

All,

Please get back to astrology. This thread is a horary request for a missing person. It is NOT a request to have a philosophical debate about death astrology. If you want to have such a discussion, either start a new thread or post it on the many threads on the subject scattered around the Forum. I have deleted off-topic postings and will continue to do so.

Back on topic,

Tim
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  #69  
Unread 01-13-2014, 04:51 PM
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Re: Missing kid

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Originally Posted by poyi View Post
Did you guys just cast a chart of the beginning of the thread to test from another perspective of the nature of the case? Lol this is a very wild idea. So very clearly our consciousness are fully connected expressed and recorded or pre written by the stars!
I apologize.

I'll continue in private, Mossarai, if that's ok.
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