Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Horary Astrology > Horary Questions on Lost items and missing people

Horary Questions on Lost items and missing people Discuss lost items horaries, also inquiries on the whereabouts of missing people.


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Unread 01-11-2014, 12:18 AM
Lena_ Lena_ is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Where trespassing needs guts
Posts: 149
Re: Missing kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Just a bit more on event charts generally. See:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astro...-astrology.php
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astro...ting-chart.php

We've all heard of "first meeting" charts for a romantic relationship, which seems to be their most common usage. There are people who swear by them, essentially taking them as a nativity of a particular event. (Cf. also electional and mundane astrology event charts.)

These have been used like nativities, such that major events in the relationship would be tracked through transits and progressions.

Also, horary astrologers will often cast a meeting chart or a phone call chart for the time when the client makes an appointment or prepares to ask the question. Supposedly it sheds further light on what is really going on in the client's mind (or in the ozone, I suppose) at that time. These event charts are also often compared with the nativity.

But these event charts generally purport to show something about the quality of a moment in time. I think this is different than using them as a sort of substitute horary in connection with a question, which in this case seems to be "what has happened to the missing boy?"

A big question, for me, in an event chart, is what makes it radical.
I'm not into history or authors -probably something mr.Z or Paul are good at- but how I see it, if the chart supports the story/matter, if you can "see" the story being verified, is valid -whatever *valid* may mean.
I don't know how a "scheduled* timing would work unless it had something to do with the clarity of the astrologer and own natal.

The quality of the time indeed is crucial. Maybe this is why the focus is mainly onto the question itself and how it has been phrased.
Phrasing is choice from behalf of the client, no matter what, and that connects to the moment, relating to natal and transits.

This is why, imo, the Angles and Moon are/were most important in Horaries; for their sensitivity time-wise. The chart would be outcasted if the AC wasn't providing *radicality* and PoF is directly related to the moment...

Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Lena_ For This Useful Post:
Inline (01-11-2014)
  #27  
Unread 01-11-2014, 02:24 AM
waybread's Avatar
waybread waybread is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: A class M planet near you
Posts: 14,729
Re: Missing kid

Lena wrote,
Quote:
You always had a way to electrocute my scattered thoughts channeling them towards conclusions; even if untold...
Gosh, Lena-- I hope this is good . I believe that English is not your first language: "electrocute" means to kill something or someone with a big surge of electricity!

Mossadrai, I simply clicked on the link to your website and googled "mossadrai." I did not attempt to make personal contact. No personal animosity-- we are complete strangers on an Internet forum, after all; but as you have seen, I am concerned about the topic.

[deleted off-topic comment - Moderator]
__________________
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.

Last edited by wilsontc; 01-13-2014 at 04:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Unread 01-11-2014, 02:43 AM
poyi's Avatar
poyi poyi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,015
Re: Missing kid

Lena made some very interesting points from the event chart. But I failed to see a direct connection of there is anther person who abducted the boy, as I failed to see direct connection between Taurus cusp with Venus in Libra connecting to Mars as ruler of the case. Unless abandoned the transitional ruler and used Pluto. I normally use both modern and traditional and they always give me consistent result as confirming each other but not in this one so I picked the traditional over modern. With the clear mutual reception I see that more as accident. We could dig into fixed stars they are a lot clearer.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Unread 01-11-2014, 03:34 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: los angeles california
Posts: 12,474
Re: Missing kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by mossadrai View Post
... but can I ask only one more question: how would you analyze if this is a case of kidnap or accident, independently of the outcome?
I would use the relative strengths of the dispositors of:
-the Part of Captivity (for abduction possibility) = ascendant + lord of saturn's sign placement - saturn
vs
-the Part of Accidents = ascendant + saturn - mars

...to estimate which might more likely have occured.

In the reference chart the Part of Captivity falls @ 7 Leo, in the 10th whole sign house, disposited by the Sun; the Part of Accidents falls @ 25 Aquarius in the 4th whole sign house, disposited by Saturn: both Parts are strong by angularity; however, with dispositor of the Part of Accidents, Saturn, being posited in the 1st house, and conjunct the NN/SN axis ("fate axis"), while the Sun being in the 11th house (house of gains, hopes, wishes, the "Good Spirit", etc) I lean toward Saturn being more importantly indicated here than the Sun, and so I lean toward Accident (rather than abduction) as a potentially more likely indication of what occured...
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to dr. farr For This Useful Post:
Inline (01-11-2014), mossadrai (01-11-2014), poyi (01-11-2014)
  #30  
Unread 01-11-2014, 03:35 AM
mossadrai mossadrai is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Posts: 165
Re: Missing kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by poyi View Post
Lena made some very interesting points from the event chart. But I failed to see a direct connection of there is anther person who abducted the boy, as I failed to see direct connection between Taurus cusp with Venus in Libra connecting to Mars as ruler of the case. Unless abandoned the transitional ruler and used Pluto. I normally use both modern and traditional and they always give me consistent result as confirming each other but not in this one so I picked the traditional over modern. With the clear mutual reception I see that more as accident. We could dig into fixed stars they are a lot clearer.
I totally agree with you. Lena brought up a lot of interesting info from the chart. I am open to the possibility of a kidnap, but I can't dismiss the accident/drowning theory either. Actually, as you say, poyi, even considering the kidnap hypothesis, I am still more inclined to think of the matter as an accident.

Maybe Lena can tell us why she thinks this is a kidnap beside the (astonishing) analysis that Mercury-Lungs and the Air Signs are dignified?

Also following your suggestion, poyi, here is the chart of the event with some fixed star. Like Dr. Farr already noticed, the ascendant is conjunct to Zuben Elgenubi and Zuben Elshcemali. From what I know, Scheat is the star to look for in cases of drowning. It is not in the list, but Scheat is 29º22' of Pisces (water sign), therefore in the 5th house and in a trine with Mars if I am not wrong.

Close to the Moon we have only Alpheratz (irrelevant, since it yields Energetic, persevering, honor, wealth, many good friends and business success) and close to Mars we have Procyon, which according to Robson, when aspected with Mars means "Cruelty, violence, scandal and slander, disgrace and ruin, danger of dog bites", which may be Lena's line (except if the kidnap was "pacific").

Thoughts?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg stars.jpg (48.2 KB, 4 views)
__________________
Yair Alon - Kabbalist

Last edited by mossadrai; 01-11-2014 at 03:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mossadrai For This Useful Post:
Inline (01-11-2014), poyi (01-11-2014)
  #31  
Unread 01-11-2014, 03:41 AM
mossadrai mossadrai is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Posts: 165
Re: Missing kid

Maybe the image is a little better here

__________________
Yair Alon - Kabbalist

Last edited by mossadrai; 01-11-2014 at 03:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Unread 01-11-2014, 03:49 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: los angeles california
Posts: 12,474
Re: Missing kid

Regarding the ascending degree connection with the South Scale*, Ebertin mentions as one of the several potential influences of this star:"...indication of danger coming about in connection with water..."


*zuben elgenubi
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to dr. farr For This Useful Post:
Inline (01-11-2014), mossadrai (01-11-2014), poyi (01-11-2014)
  #33  
Unread 01-11-2014, 03:50 AM
poyi's Avatar
poyi poyi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,015
Re: Missing kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by mossadrai View Post
I totally agree with you. Lena brought up a lot of interesting info from the chart. I am open to the possibility of a kidnap, but I can't dismiss the accident/drowning theory either. Actually, as you say, poyi, even considering the kidnap hypothesis, I am still more inclined to think of the matter as an accident.

Maybe Lena can tell us why she thinks this is a kidnap beside the (astonishing) analysis that Mercury-Lungs and the Air Signs are dignified?

Also following your suggestion, poyi, here is the chart of the event with some fixed star. Like Dr. Farr already noticed, the ascendant is conjunct to Zuben Elgenubi and Zuben Elshcemali. From what I know, Scheat is the star to look for in cases of drowning. It is not in the list, but Scheat is 29º22' of Pisces (water sign), therefore in the 5th house and in a trine with Mars if I am not wrong.

Close to the Moon we have only Alpheratz (irrelevant, since it yields Energetic, persevering, honor, wealth, many good friends and business success) and close to Mars we have Procyon, which according to Robson, when aspected with Mars means "Cruelty, violence, scandal and slander, disgrace and ruin, danger of dog bites", which may be Lena's line (except if the kidnap was "pacific").

Thoughts?
This is very interesting. Fixed stars never disappointed me. It literally described the condition of the boy in a wealthy family playing with friends with the mix of danger....I can actually so visualize the boy playing. Fixed stars are truly impressive. Thank God that we have Robson.
__________________
“I believe there is something of the divine mystery in everything that exists. We can see it sparkle in a sunflower or a poppy. We sense more of the unfathomable mystery in a butterfly that flutters from a twig--or in a goldfish swimming in a bowl. But we are closest to God in our own soul. Only there can we become one with the greatest mystery of life. In truth, at very rare moments we can experience that we ourselves are that divine mystery.” --Jostein Gaarder, Sophie's World
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Unread 01-11-2014, 03:55 AM
mossadrai mossadrai is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Posts: 165
Re: Missing kid

Impressive.

So there is a strong basis to think about the accident and drowning hypothesis. I loved to know about the Captivity and Accidents parts. I'll add them to my Solar Fire (by the way, every time I try to use the "Arabic Parts Editor" the software freezes and I can't add what I want. Anyone already experienced that before?)

As you said, poyi, fixed stars are really impressive.

But, Lena, the question is there yet... Do you see more indications supporting a kidnap?
__________________
Yair Alon - Kabbalist
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Unread 01-11-2014, 09:44 AM
Lena_ Lena_ is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Where trespassing needs guts
Posts: 149
Re: Missing kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Gosh, Lena-- I hope this is good . I believe that English is not your first language: "electrocute" means to kill something or someone with a big surge of electricity!
Erm... lol
It was good and you're right to believe so; my English IS lousy.
Electrocute in Greek has the same meaning to 'attack' with electricity..

@Poyi
I use Pluto for Scorpio and Mars as a co-ruler. But I like to use planets simultaneously as multiple significators..
Pluto in MR with Saturn in 12th -in own Joy.
Mars in MR with Moon in 6th, in Mars' Joy.
Again, double indications which are good positions regarding health.

eta
-------
Since I've focused more in the condition of the 'body' I wonder if being saved from an accident could verify both options. I still don't think there is anything lethal in the chart.
---------


@Mossadrai
Actually I think the target was originally the sibling, the older sister -this is why I asked about her looks. After time passes, MC quincunxes the 3rd cusp and Pluto and L3. That is a long shot but maybe something happened and the kid was picked instead, accidentally.. I've troubled a lot with that as I can't imagine how that could work and it is the thing with the odd "bond" between the kids too. Maybe an older child could give more resistance? Were they wearing the same clothes or something? If they are close in age, could someone easily mix them up? The sister being an original target might just mean that a girl, or, a pretty girl was on schedule. Is the kid missing, a boy?

If you're into Sabians, check them. I don't use them but I do keep notes for future study.. This is what I've kept in my files:
AC: WOMAN, FECUNDATED BY HER SPIRIT, IS "GREAT WITH CHILD
Saturn: DIVERS OF THE DEEP SEA ARE BEING LOWERED INTO THE WATERS
N.Node: A DROWNING MAN IS RESCUED, BROUGHT BACK TO THE CROWD (yes, that did make me chuckle)
Moon: AN EMPTY HAMMOCK IS HANGING BETWEEN TWO LOVELY TREES
Venus: A CANOE LEAVING NARROW RAPIDS REACHES CALM WATERS (this is why I found "Netherlands" more interesting than if you'd mention, say, Texas)

This gave more ideas on the circumstances..
I wonder if dr.Farr could comment on what could come first if we were in a hypothesis that both an accident and captivity occurred.. Which would come first in time?

In Placidus, there aren't any intercepted Houses, so this makes me think that everything went unbiased. There is nothing tranquil in a Grand Square but I don't see *violence* or anything *brutal* in the chart. At worst, Uranus opposes Venus yet she is in Mars' detriment thus, not a violent person/factor. Most possibly, Venus got lucky.. There isn't a coincidence that Venus=Jupiter/Pluto=Uranus. These midpoints are supposed to promise life-changing events.

I'm Very tempted to think that the child has "changed hands", like whomever took the kid isn't the one keeping it.
Venus/Pluto is particularly about money and maybe this is why the kid is important to Jupiter..
I'll have to check and get back at this.

I haven't dealt with fixed stars yet. The combinations planets/aspects/degrees/dignities/cusps I use, provide way too many info for me to handle and I couldn't take on stars yet and I don't know if I'll ever be.

FWIW, I wouldn't comment if I saw death in this chart. It is useless done in a public forum where someone could pick just a line from a reading and make assumptions..

Lena

Last edited by Lena_; 01-11-2014 at 10:02 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Unread 01-11-2014, 11:04 AM
poyi's Avatar
poyi poyi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,015
Re: Missing kid

In the case of using Pluto as the main significator instead of Mars. I am a bit reluctant without the reference of structural dignity table sited for Pluto other than the potential on ruling Scorpio. I tend to use Pluto as co ruler due to lack of extensive studies on the full effect of Pluto across all zodiac signs since discovery. But I do use Scorpio to confirm and see different angles of matters.

So if we use Pluto Rx in Capricorn placed in 3rd house>Saturn in Scorpio in it Term in mutual reception placed in 12th house as his Joy if you used Placidus but the original practice that is 1st house not 12th as they used whole sign from my memories.

We can see the link of sibling and disappearance are related but that could also be meaning the child disappeared from his local community, of his familiar surrounding. We can't be sure how Pluto can fit into the dignity table to confirm rather the body is in danger or not. In whole sign Saturn and Node node are both in 1st house that actually suggesting Self Inflicted Event while equally possible the Sibling causing the issues as in mutual reception as you suggesting.

To be more precise, Gemini 8th house and 8th sign is ruled by Mercury in the 10th house and 11th sign, and Sun combusted Mercury severely 19 seconds not Cazimi but a rather completed burnt. Sun combusted his own final dispositor, Sun ruling the MC, I see that as a very likelihood of death, as minimal the major public concern over the worse potential outcome of this child.

Part of Fortune in a usual natal and medical chart, we use POF as the physical body, the wellbeing of the body, POF in Cancer, then we can see the mutual affliction of Mars and Moon placed in Placidus 8th while in whole sign 9th house. The down side is the accuracy of POF highly varied based on the accuracy of timing.

So far, I have not found sensitive points of Antiscion or contra antisicion points.

I would like to suggest mossadrai to check parallel and contra parallel aspects.
__________________
“I believe there is something of the divine mystery in everything that exists. We can see it sparkle in a sunflower or a poppy. We sense more of the unfathomable mystery in a butterfly that flutters from a twig--or in a goldfish swimming in a bowl. But we are closest to God in our own soul. Only there can we become one with the greatest mystery of life. In truth, at very rare moments we can experience that we ourselves are that divine mystery.” --Jostein Gaarder, Sophie's World
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Unread 01-11-2014, 11:05 AM
Lena_ Lena_ is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Where trespassing needs guts
Posts: 149
Re: Missing kid

Way, these are some thoughts as an example on picking 5th from 9th in secondborn children:

In general I think however you get to examine a chart, it's going to give the same results..

For the parents, IF the older sister is the first born, she is signified by 4ths' 5th, being 8th Gemini. You could either stop there and check the combust/cazimi phase or, try it a bit further and check the 3rd from 8th for the missing kid, IF this is the secondborn.

Because of not knowing the time of births or the difference in ages, I'll give that as an example.

Under this hypothesis (missing kid being the second born), via this other approach, the kid is Leo, Sun, in 11th. Sun/Mercury conjuncting thus being together, exposed in public. Sun hides Mercury and Mercury, even burnt, is too close to being protected by Sun. That, along with PoF being in 8th of sister, could also imply the sister getting lucky and "protected" by the younger sibling..

Coincidentaly enough, Sun is strong own face, in Jupiters' detriment and Venus' fall..
Actually Sun is in mutual fall with Venus -something I'd like to ponder on if there could be a verification on birth order..

So, IF the hypothesis of the birth times is correct, this other option to work on the chart concludes at the same, in a second fold (I usually do a threefold in horaries).

Lacking data is why I initially didn't elaborate on this, on the other hand is a good example on how I personally work on charts. I know it is a long shot yet the coincidences are too many.. And I don't believe in coincidences

Lena,
[/ranting]

Last edited by Lena_; 01-11-2014 at 11:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Lena_ For This Useful Post:
waybread (01-11-2014)
  #38  
Unread 01-11-2014, 11:47 AM
Lena_ Lena_ is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Where trespassing needs guts
Posts: 149
Re: Missing kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by poyi View Post
To be more precise, Gemini 8th house and 8th sign is ruled by Mercury in the 10th house and 11th sign, and Sun combusted Mercury severely 19 seconds not Cazimi but a rather completed burnt.
If I understood correctly, you examine the chart as a static, horary one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by poyi View Post
Sun combusted his own final dispositor, Sun ruling the MC, I see that as a very likelihood of death, as minimal the major public concern over the worse potential outcome of this child.
I'm a bit embarrassed to admit but, I didn't know Sun could be concidered combust! Tbh, I actually thought the "burning" procedure was from the Suns' own light.. Is it due to disposition only or are other factors as well?
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Unread 01-11-2014, 11:52 AM
poyi's Avatar
poyi poyi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,015
Re: Missing kid

No no I am saying Sun in Virgo combusted his own final dispositor Mercury in Virgo is a very unfortunate situation. I have seen a few times in natal chart severe issues regarding to the whatever the mercury and sun signify in the chart. In a female natal chart of one of the member's mother. She has sever alcoholism and I chased it back to her father who was a serious alcoholic he was so drunk from drinking and died from falling into fire and was burnt died. This psyche was already as a blueprint written in this woman chart and later she has mental health issues and also suffered from severe drinking problem. In her case the mercury is even retrograde moving toward to the sun to be burnt.

Last edited by poyi; 01-11-2014 at 12:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Unread 01-11-2014, 12:07 PM
Lena_ Lena_ is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Where trespassing needs guts
Posts: 149
Re: Missing kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by poyi View Post
No no I am saying Sun in Virgo combusted his own final dispositor Mercury in Virgo is a very unfortunate situation. I have seen a few times in natal chart severe issues regarding to the whatever the mercury and sun signify in the chart. In a female natal chart of one of the member's mother. She has sever alcoholism and I chased it back to her father who was a serious alcoholic he was so drunk from drinking and died from falling into fired and burnt died. This psyche was already as a blueprint writing in this woman chart and later she has mental health issues and also suffered from sever drink problem. In her case the mercury is even retrograde moving toward to the sun to be burnt.
Oh! I understand now..
In identical Horary charts under different questions I find the charts to give totaly different meanings. I guess different ways work for different people
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Unread 01-11-2014, 12:30 PM
poyi's Avatar
poyi poyi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,015
Re: Missing kid

For horary combustion also usually gives negative testimony. Unless in relationship question when sun and Venus are significators I just read yesterday. When I did a horary chart for my friend's cat we didn't know it was locked inside the house by accident, sun in the chart burnt the ruler of the pet mercury ruler of her 6th house of Virgo later on we found her cat accidentally locked in with little foods and water for 6 days that was the actual combustion in reality.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Unread 01-11-2014, 03:39 PM
mossadrai mossadrai is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Posts: 165
Re: Missing kid

Well, some new info in the case released by the family with consent of the police.

The missing kid (a boy) was a twin brother to a sister. Therefore, this could indicate what Lena saw regarding the brother thing.

One more thing. I managed to get the natal data of the kid, but I have no time of birth, so disregard houses and the Moon, but here is the chart.

__________________
Yair Alon - Kabbalist

Last edited by mossadrai; 01-11-2014 at 03:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Unread 01-11-2014, 04:04 PM
poyi's Avatar
poyi poyi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,015
Re: Missing kid

The boy had his Mars return approximate 10 degrees before the incident day. Also was about to have his Solar return.

His natal Sun conjunct Moon/Venus with Mercury mutual reception likely to be the indicator of himself being one of the twins. Only a very young boy, I suspect one of the key progressions was perfected to manifest certain natal promises. Likely to be one of the conjunctions or tight square/opposition that is in the natal chart.

However, Rectification takes a lot of work.
__________________
“I believe there is something of the divine mystery in everything that exists. We can see it sparkle in a sunflower or a poppy. We sense more of the unfathomable mystery in a butterfly that flutters from a twig--or in a goldfish swimming in a bowl. But we are closest to God in our own soul. Only there can we become one with the greatest mystery of life. In truth, at very rare moments we can experience that we ourselves are that divine mystery.” --Jostein Gaarder, Sophie's World
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Unread 01-11-2014, 04:06 PM
poyi's Avatar
poyi poyi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,015
Re: Missing kid

It could be the Sun Neptune opposition got perfected also conjoined the natal Chiron?
__________________
“I believe there is something of the divine mystery in everything that exists. We can see it sparkle in a sunflower or a poppy. We sense more of the unfathomable mystery in a butterfly that flutters from a twig--or in a goldfish swimming in a bowl. But we are closest to God in our own soul. Only there can we become one with the greatest mystery of life. In truth, at very rare moments we can experience that we ourselves are that divine mystery.” --Jostein Gaarder, Sophie's World
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Unread 01-11-2014, 04:07 PM
mossadrai mossadrai is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Posts: 165
Re: Missing kid

Exactly my thoughts. Solar and Mars Return. I am trying to get the time of birth, even if not totally exact, it can help a lot.
__________________
Yair Alon - Kabbalist
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mossadrai For This Useful Post:
poyi (01-11-2014)
  #46  
Unread 01-11-2014, 04:16 PM
poyi's Avatar
poyi poyi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,015
Re: Missing kid

Check if natal Mars in Cancer parallel to natal South node. Jupiter is the ruler of natal North node, on the incident day, Jupiter exalted in Cancer.

In Natal both Moon and Venus are combusted whatever they rule in the natal houses should be looked at. Combusted Moon rules the natal Mars in Cancer>Uranus in Aries, Combusted Venus rules the Saturn in Libra>Pluto, and Jupiter in Taurus>North node so therefore the chain goes down the line of rulership/houses.
__________________
“I believe there is something of the divine mystery in everything that exists. We can see it sparkle in a sunflower or a poppy. We sense more of the unfathomable mystery in a butterfly that flutters from a twig--or in a goldfish swimming in a bowl. But we are closest to God in our own soul. Only there can we become one with the greatest mystery of life. In truth, at very rare moments we can experience that we ourselves are that divine mystery.” --Jostein Gaarder, Sophie's World

Last edited by poyi; 01-11-2014 at 04:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Unread 01-11-2014, 06:59 PM
Lena_ Lena_ is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Where trespassing needs guts
Posts: 149
Re: Missing kid

On the birth chart, I'm much inclined into putting AC=Pluto/Jupiter plus/minus a couple of degrees. But then again in twin births I assume there is a day chart (cesarean).. So I guess a 45/90 dial could work. Maybe a Virgo AC is a possibility as well.

Are there any other brothers/sisters, mossadrai?
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Unread 01-11-2014, 08:13 PM
Marinka's Avatar
Marinka Marinka is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Westwood, MA
Posts: 1,736
Re: Missing kid

Can the event chart be used as a primary and the child's chart put on the outer ring. One important note is the 29 Neptune in Aquarius in birthchart and that will be an inc to the mars and the Mid at the event.

__________________


Astrology is all about prediction ....
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Unread 01-12-2014, 06:34 AM
poyi's Avatar
poyi poyi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,015
I was working on the other thread about a missing brother the OP asked me to tell her if her brother is died from his natal/progressed/solar arc I found it really uneasy to analysis and tell the truth. In term of learning wise if I am not talking directly with the family member I can remain cool headed and be objective with my views. When I am talking directly to the family of the missing person in question I felt emotionally clouded and mostly of course due to lack of skills so afraid of unnecessary disappointment or false hope. But when doing a purely educational chart with no personal emotion invested in it then I can manage better. Knowing if I got it wrong I won't harm anyone.

I do agree an already well trained astrologer can assist situation like this to relieve suffering for the family in waiting. I guess not so much about moral standard to me but instead highly due to poorly controlled personal emotion and lack of skills/confidence. The method and skill itself is not in any wrong or lack of value.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Unread 01-12-2014, 09:11 AM
Harold Harold is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 364
Re: Missing kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by poyi View Post
When I am talking directly to the family of the missing person in question I felt emotionally clouded and mostly of course due to lack of skills so afraid of unnecessary disappointment or false hope.
That is healthy and natural. But if you honestly feel that the chart shows the missing person to be in danger, or possibly even dead, are you being honest with yourself and your client by not revealing it?

To put the boot on the other foot, if you saw the significator of the missing person was well dignified and well clear of any malefics, would you be happy to inform your client that their loved one looked to be safe and well?

If you feel confident enough to give an honest answer when you see a happy outcome in a missing person chart, you should be confident enough to give an honest answer if you see that the quesited is in trouble.

Or. . . don't accept missing person questions.

The client usually knows that astrology is not an infallible art. What they want is some reassurance that everything will probably turn out OK, or to prepare themselves for the worst if that seems indicated in the chart. They are looking for some insight into the murk, not history written before it happens. They are looking for emotional support and astrologer-as-councillor is part of the skill set essential for the professional astrologer. Training as a councillor is - I would suggest - as important to a professional astrologer as being able to read and delineate a chart. Such training gives the astrologer the tools to deal with just such a situation as you describe.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Harold For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (01-12-2014), mossadrai (01-12-2014), poyi (01-12-2014)
Reply

Tags
missing

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 07:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.