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Horary Questions on Lost items and missing people Discuss lost items horaries, also inquiries on the whereabouts of missing people.


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  #1  
Unread 01-10-2014, 01:45 AM
mossadrai mossadrai is offline
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Exclamation Missing kid

Hello, all.

This is not exaclty an horary question, but more an event chart from the closest time a kid has disappeared.

The kid was lost sometime between 10:30 and 11 AM in August, 24, 2013. There are no clues of what really happened, i.e., if this is a case of kidnapping or if an accident occured (the kid was playing close to a river, and there is a chance the kid fell in the waters).

Here you have the chart, and then you have my analysis but I would like also unbiased help from other astrologers. So if you can read the map and tell what you see BEFORE reading my interpretation and commenting on it, I would be very grateful. However, even commenting after reading my thoughts are welcome, of course, so feel free.

The kid is represented by the Moon (natural significator of missing things and person) and Mars (ruler of Scorpio rising). Both planets are in mutual reception, and the good news is both the Moon and Mars are strong in the chart (even though Mars is in its fall, maybe representing the disappearance).

Since one of the rulers itself is Mars, I see this already as an indication that maybe the matter is an accident and not a kidnap. Since Mars in in the 9th, in either case the kid is now far from home (either taken by the river or by someone). Notice that Mars is in Cancer, a water sign, maybe strenghtening the hypothesis of falling in the river.

In any case, I decided to look the seventh house, in case there is a kidnapper. Then this person is represented by Venus, and is probably a woman. Venus is strong, in its domicile and mutual reception with Saturn (which is in the 12th in Scorpio, very meaningful in cases like this). Venus in the 11th shows that if there is a kidnapper (let's call it she) she may be a friend of the kid, and can also be a partner or someone with financial relationship to the fathers (11th house is the 8th from the 4th, the father, and the 2nd from the 10th, the mother).

Venus in Libra may show that the kidnapper thinks what she is doing is in someway fair and just, and may be linkened someway with aesthethics and visual (the missing kid is particularly beautiful). According to the whole sign house system, Venus is in the 12th house, showing that the kidnapper may be hidden or may have some relation to jail and detention institutions (also hospitals and similar facilities). Since Venus has no aspect to Mars nor the Moon, I see this as a sign that maybe there is no kidnapper.

Jupiter seems to take an important role in the affair, since it is in a square aspect both to the Moon (the kid) and the possible kidnapper. Jupiter rules the 2nd, so, again, maybe a financial matter or a money issue related to the case?

Saturn is connected to Venus (in a mutual reception, like said before), and also to Mars. Therefore, if there is a kidnapper, this Saturn in the 12th Scorpio shows anger, hard feelings, maybe things from a long time ago. Again it has some connection to prisons, wards and hospitals. If Saturn is a kidnapper or a person related to the case, it is an unknown person to the kid, since it is in the 12th.
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Unread 01-10-2014, 03:38 AM
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Re: Missing kid

From my approach to event delineation, with Saturn in the first whole sign house conjunct the NN and the SN positing the 7th house (and opposed by Saturn), coupled with the ascending degree being conjunct the highly disruptive Zuben el Genubi (South Scale) I immediately am led to a very unfortunate conclusion regarding the likely situation: further than saying that I will not go: hope my impression here is completely incorrect...
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Unread 01-10-2014, 12:50 PM
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Re: Missing kid

Thank you very much for your impressions, dr. farr. Unfortunately, I think you are right in your impressions.

I know you said you won't go further, but can I ask only one more question: how would you analyze if this is a case of kidnap or accident, independently of the outcome?
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Unread 01-10-2014, 12:51 PM
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Re: Missing kid

Thank you very much for your impressions, dr. farr. Unfortunately, I think you are right in your impressions.

I know you said you won't go further, but can I ask only one more question: how would you analyze if this is a case of kidnap or accident, independently of the outcome?
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Unread 01-10-2014, 12:59 PM
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Re: Missing kid

In the event chart, Scorpio Mars in Cancer placed in 9th in the late degree and the fall of Mars, poorly situated boy, in the mutual reception of Moon in Aries placed in the 6th sign which is the 12th of 7th, Venus in Libra which is the native 12th but the 6th of 7th. Would the child being taken away from a place that is ruled by 9th/Cancer/6th house/Aries?

I suppose the mutual reception of Mars in Cancer in fall and Moon in Aries Peregrine wanderer can also do that as drowning.
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Unread 01-10-2014, 01:22 PM
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Re: Missing kid

Hello, poyi. The kid disappeared at his own place, very close to the mother (maybe this is the Moon in 6th). I don't see any meaning of the 9th in the place of disappearance, since the kid has disappeared, as said, close to the mother, close to the home. What I see, as you, is the connection to water and maybe drowning (Mars in Cancer).
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Unread 01-10-2014, 01:28 PM
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Re: Missing kid

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Originally Posted by mossadrai View Post
Hello, poyi. The kid disappeared at his own place, very close to the mother (maybe this is the Moon in 6th). I don't see any meaning of the 9th in the place of disappearance, since the kid has disappeared, as said, close to the mother, close to the home. What I see, as you, is the connection to water and maybe drowning (Mars in Cancer).
The relationship of 9th house would be the body being flushed to a longer distance away from the original place. Mars in Cancer has been a while back the kid still missing? Do you think there is a possibility of Mars returning back to Scorpio and at AC will be the timing of them finally finding the boy?
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Unread 01-10-2014, 01:42 PM
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Re: Missing kid

Hello, poyi. The kid has been missing for at least 4 months now.

Very interesting point regarding the coming of Mars to the ASC, I have not thought about it. My analysis was that since Saturn represents the body and it is in the 12th, hardly the kid will be found (either alive or dead). What do you think?
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Unread 01-10-2014, 02:01 PM
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Re: Missing kid

Any chance that you can add the natal chart planets to the event chart but keep the event chart cusps?

Also, the event may have started as much as 20 minutes earlier - could you adjust chart. My thought is that the MC should be in the last degrees of Cancer and Mars should be sitting pretty much on the mid. I could be wrong, but I suspect that there will also be a planet in the natal chart getting angles by the Mars & MC at the end degrees of Cancer. Also, the event chart has the grand cross in Aries/Cancer/Libra/Capricorn - one of the natal planets was likely also getting angled by the grand cross.


The ascendant would also get adjusted and with that, I might think the node would fall directly on the new ascendant. I would also look for the new ascendant to make an angle to the natal chart.

edited to add ..
Adjusting the time of the event would also place Venus in the 12th which might be more appropriate and might shift additional planets - Neptune to 5th and Uranus to 6th. (Neptune) and Uranus into the 6th.
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Unread 01-10-2014, 02:06 PM
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Re: Missing kid

I think Mars as the body...and that is also how it was indicting the body fallen into water and to me he was flushed away then it hit the MC as news report perhaps. Mars likely was near the bendings of transiting nodal axis as T-square the timing of fatal event actually completed not sure if the timing is matching. Mars however does rules North node in 12th house and the AC.

I can't see this chart very well. Was Mars unaspected? I would think since Mars is the ruler of the event, Mars will be ongoing to be the factor to consider of if the boy will ever be found. If it was unaspected then not too sure maybe never will be.
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Unread 01-10-2014, 03:09 PM
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Re: Missing kid

I believe the kid has been abducted..:

There is a lot of "interest" from Jupiter into the kids' 2nd/3rd.. (I've tried the chart at both 10:30 and 11:00pm).. Is the child from a wealthy family/was carrying something or has a sibling that could attract a stalker? Something of those was left behind (either the sibling or something the kid owns) as Pluto is retro in 2nd or 3rd.

4th in both charts would be on Aquarius, and the parent is represented by Saturn on 12th of child and 6th as Uranus. The quincunx between Saturn and Uranus shows something went terribly wrong between parents' 3rd/9th.

Saturn 12th, except from parent failing to watch, could imply a stalker (Scorpio).

Either time, AC is on Scorpio, meaning the kid is attractive.
Dignities are strong in the chart and the only exception is Mars being in own fall. But there is no detriment. Lord of 8th being Mercury is just sepparating from cazimi entering a combust zone but is highly dignified in 10th/11th. Vitals are good.

Except Mercury, Jupiter is also in exaltation. The kids' "worth" is significant.

Air rulers are dignified - no suffocation when lungs (Mercury/3rd) are in good shape due to dignities of Mercury, high position of it and the mutual reception of Pluto/Saturn.

I think I'll use Venus (Taurus 7th) Ruling the possible kidnapper. Venus is placed into 11th or 12th of the child. Into 12th might show the stalking or, the bad intentions.

Parents (4th) 5th is in Gemini in both charts.. That verifies the possibility of a sibling (a brother/sister) and combining that to the twilight of cazimi-combustion gives me the impression that either kid was a target (one saved - one taken)

Jupiter, I think is the the coruler of the kidnapper. That person might be located onto 8th or 9th. As natural significator of 9th it could be a foreigner, holding actual dignities like an officer or something -someone beyond suspicion. The same supports the dignified Venus..

Both of them, (Jupiter and Venus) are located in the 2nd House from where Mercury is or what Mercury rules.. Again, the child/children are "important" to the possible kidnapper.

I think the uploaded chart, timed 10:30 is more accurate than the one timed 11:00. That is because AC is quincunx Moon and MC quincunx Neptune which excellently support the 'event'..

Lena,
Sorry for being sloppy -just got back from work and couldn't resist this thread.. I'll try to make up later.

eta
correcting word *Detriments* with *Dignities*

Last edited by Lena_; 01-10-2014 at 07:44 PM.
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Unread 01-10-2014, 06:22 PM
mossadrai mossadrai is offline
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Re: Missing kid

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Originally Posted by Marinka View Post
Any chance that you can add the natal chart planets to the event chart but keep the event chart cusps?

Also, the event may have started as much as 20 minutes earlier - could you adjust chart.
Unfortunately I don't have natal data, but here you have the chart for 10 minutes earlier. I don't understand why you thought this was the right time.
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Unread 01-10-2014, 06:24 PM
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Re: Missing kid

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I think Mars as the body...

I can't see this chart very well. Was Mars unaspected? I would think since Mars is the ruler of the event, Mars will be ongoing to be the factor to consider of if the boy will ever be found. If it was unaspected then not too sure maybe never will be.
Interesting to know that for you Mars is the body. Yes, Mars is unaspected, and then it would indicate that the body is not seen anymore, as you said.
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Unread 01-10-2014, 06:42 PM
mossadrai mossadrai is offline
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Re: Missing kid

Lena, I'll try to answer (and question) part by part, ok?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena_ View Post
I believe the kid has been abducted..:

There is a lot of "interest" from Jupiter into the kids' 2nd/3rd.. (I've tried the chart at both 10:30 and 11:00pm).. Is the child from a wealthy family/was carrying something or has a sibling that could attract a stalker? Something of those was left behind (either the sibling or something the kid owns) as Pluto is retro in 2nd or 3rd.
I don't know if the children is from a wealthy familiy, but the answer is yes to the two other facts. The kid was with an older sister close to him when the thing happened, and the kid was using a cap he took as a play from his grandpa. When disappeared the sister and the cap were left behind.

How did you get to "there is a lot of interest in the kids 2nd/3rd". I don't understand it, but impressive!

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Originally Posted by Lena_ View Post
The quincunx between Saturn and Uranus shows something went terribly wrong between parents' 3rd/9th.
What would you say is the thing gone wrong in the parent's 3rd and 9th?

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Originally Posted by Lena_ View Post
Either time, AC is on Scorpio, meaning the kid is attractive.
Yes, it is.

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Originally Posted by Lena_ View Post
Detriments are strong in the chart and the only exception is Mars being in own fall. But there is no detriment. Lord of 8th being Mercury is just sepparating from cazimi entering a combust zone but is highly dignified in 10th/11th. Vitals are good.
What does the combust tell you, then? I also took the vitals to be good from Mars with some strenght.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena_ View Post
Air rulers are dignified - no suffocation when lungs (Mercury/3rd) are in good shape due to dignities of Mercury, high position of it and the mutual reception of Pluto/Saturn.
Interesting, to check Mercury as the lungs condition. In this case, Mars in a water sign indicates something to you?

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Jupiter, I think is the the coruler of the kidnapper.
Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena_ View Post
That person might be located onto 8th or 9th. As natural significator of 9th it could be a foreigner, holding actual dignities like an officer or something -someone beyond suspicion. The same supports the dignified Venus..
According to the hypothesis of a kidnap, there are some information received by the police that a kid very looked like with the missing kid was seen with a gay couple (actually, two men, that two or three witnesses had the impression to be gay) in an airport in Netherlands.
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Unread 01-10-2014, 07:20 PM
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Re: Missing kid

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Unfortunately I don't have natal data, but here you have the chart for 10 minutes earlier. I don't understand why you thought this was the right time.
Look at the chart - the MID is at the last degrees indicating a possible "chaotic" situation and Mars is sitting there also. Mars being action in my interpretation. Venus has moved into the 12th and that suggests that the "hidden interest in this child was the beauty or grace". Neptune has moved into the 5th and with Neptune there is confusion and in the 5th of children - indicating some confusion at this time with children.

Also, remove the name on the new chart please.

I agree with Lena, this is starting to look more like an abduction. I would ask if there some some other activity going at that time in the area that could have diverted attention. An accident, arguments, sports .. anything like that.

Also, don't need to have the time of birth - the date would do and provide much more information. The moon, of course, would not be correct but the other planets would not change much.

From my perspective, the event is not so much when the child may have gone missing - instead, the start of this event may have been sooner in the morning and may have finished with the child missing.

Some other observations ----

- Venus is almost an exact square to pluto. Pluto being the ruler of the 1st house, In this case, the first house could be the parents, could be the child - hard to say at this point. Venus is the ruler of the 7th and 12th - house of known and unknown enemies. This could indicate that the person involved in this hired someone to do the job as there is a "known", the person hiring, and an "unknown" person being hired. To repeat, this would be an enemy against the 1st ruler. Venus does not stop there - it is hitting the midpoint of the Neptune/Chiron which is located in the 5th (children). Neptune gives emphasis to the 5th as it is in the house and it rules it. Chiron is ruling the 11th which identifies that maybe a friend is involved or some "organization".
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Unread 01-10-2014, 07:36 PM
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Re: Missing kid

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Originally Posted by mossadrai View Post
Lena, I'll try to answer (and question) part by part, ok?
Hey, mossadrai,
I've posted in a sloppy way; something more like keeping notes than analysing.. I'll try to do a better job this time.

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I don't know if the children is from a wealthy familiy, but the answer is yes to the two other facts. The kid was with an older sister close to him when the thing happened, and the kid was using a cap he took as a play from his grandpa. When disappeared the sister and the cap were left behind.

How did you get to "there is a lot of interest in the kids 2nd/3rd". I don't understand it, but impressive!
I was after either one or another. Since there is a span of half an hour I estimated Plutos' position being either in 2nd or 3rd House.

While studying the chart I had already thought/concluded of/to Jupiter to be the possible kidnapper and then saw the interest in the 2nd/3rd, so I started typing..

Quote:
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What would you say is the thing gone wrong in the parent's 3rd and 9th?
I suspect the quincunx got "trapped" by the Grand Cross.. and particularly by Jupiter/Venus:

Venus by antiscion falls onto Pluto and is unseed by Saturn while opposing Uranus.
Jupiter while hardly squaring Uranus, forms a Grand trine with Saturn and Chiron/Neptune. Chiron is, no matter the time, in parents' 2nd.
I use the 3rd as the acts, reactions, sayings and messages sent by the native.
That made me think the parent was "lured" (Neptune) or manipulated somehow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mossadrai View Post
Yes, it is.
Because of the mutual reception from Scorpio to Caprocorn (older sister), is the sister attractive too? Either that or, the two kids share a different kind of bond.

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Originally Posted by mossadrai View Post
What does the combust tell you, then? I also took the vitals to be good from Mars with some strenght.
I'm not sure if I was to examine the chart as a static or progressive one as I don't have experience in event charts. I decided to go static since the time-span is roughly big.

This way, the combust I took it to be in 'something changes'.
The double meaning of the Mercury state, not safe - not in danger, I got it to be the two kids, one being safe and the other in danger. What is interesting is that 10th, is ruled by Sun. That at first gave me the impression of the other parent being responsible for the danger but again, the cazimi/combust is in Virgo where Mercury is strong. Thus not a lethal danger and, the Sun not acting against the child. Additionally, if the cazimi/combustion is in 11th, with Virgo rulling 11th made me think the person responsible isn't Sun the other parent rather than someone from the public.

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Interesting, to check Mercury as the lungs condition. In this case, Mars in a water sign indicates something to you?
This is where I'd check lungs in medical horary. 3rd and Mercury.
Mars maybe in Cancer yet in mutual reception with Moon in Aries. Mars is safe. Other way around is Pluto, the co-signficator which is in Capricorn and again, with mutual reception with Saturn.

The doubles of these made me think more of the existence of a sibling and even more of the bond between them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mossadrai View Post
Why?
Because of Jupiters' "play" onto the quincunx between Saturn-Uranus.

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Originally Posted by mossadrai View Post
According to the hypothesis of a kidnap, there are some information received by the police that a kid very looked like with the missing kid was seen with a gay couple (actually, two men, that two or three witnesses had the impression to be gay) in an airport in Netherlands.
When was that? Anytime close to the kid gone missing?
Could you provide time-data of possible being seen again to check if the chart supports the timing?

It is interesting that all Mars, Pluto and Mercury have a dignity on Jupiter (being either time on 9th giving more emphasis) and particularly Mercury being on Jupiters' detriment...

Lena
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Unread 01-10-2014, 08:37 PM
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If it was abduction the 9th could be as oversea but the mutual reception of the body stop at Mars and Moon. I don't see any link directly to the Mars afterward. Can consider the ruler in decan of Mars.
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Unread 01-10-2014, 09:10 PM
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Re: Missing kid

Mossadrai, perhaps by now you see the problem, with different people (mostly amateurs) using different methods. Oftentimes these will lead to different conclusions.

In a horrific case like a missing child, normal human sensitivity demands proceding only very cautiously, and then really thinking through your motives for doing so. If you have no personal connection to this child, are you asking for help in chart-delineation so that you can learn to become a magus on the backs of this heart-broken family? Are you hoping to help the family in some way?

If you do not have a precise time for an event chart, the houses can quickly become erroneous. This can also throw off house rulers.

Then astrologers differ on how to signify a missing person. Rex E. Bills, The Rulership Book (AFA) uses modern rulerships, and gives kidnappings to Pluto, and secondarily to Neptune and the 12th house.

You would do this completely differently in a horary chart, of course.
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Unread 01-10-2014, 09:25 PM
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Re: Missing kid

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Mossadrai, perhaps by now you see the problem, with different people (mostly amateurs) using different methods. Oftentimes these will lead to different conclusions.

In a horrific case like a missing child, normal human sensitivity demands proceding only very cautiously, and then really thinking through your motives for doing so. If you have no personal connection to this child, are you asking for help in chart-delineation so that you can learn to become a magus on the backs of this heart-broken family? Are you hoping to help the family in some way?

If you do not have a precise time for an event chart, the houses can quickly become erroneous. This can also throw off house rulers.

Then astrologers differ on how to signify a missing person. Rex E. Bills, The Rulership Book (AFA) uses modern rulerships, and gives kidnappings to Pluto, and secondarily to Neptune and the 12th house.

You would do this completely differently in a horary chart, of course.
I'm more than ready to seek for the personal interest when a Horary chart is on the table.. But I didn't know the same was questioned in Event charts.. Is the astrologer or the querent pre-signified as well?

Makes more sense to question intentions in Horary charts, yet I understand you see it the other way around.. Why is that?

Lena,
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Unread 01-10-2014, 09:34 PM
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Re: Missing kid

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Also, remove the name on the new chart please.
Thanks for that. I have deleted the second chart. As to the other observations, thank you very much for your analysis. If I can get the birth data I will post it here.

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Because of the mutual reception from Scorpio to Caprocorn (older sister), is the sister attractive too? Either that or, the two kids share a different kind of bond.
First of all, thanks for all your info, Lena, and for having the patience to answer each of my questions. As to this, question, the sister is attractive too

Very good analysis regarding the Mercury/Sun conjunction. At this time I feel urged to ask where did you learn astrology? You have impressed me! Specially what some call forensics astrology, have you taken a course on that?

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Originally Posted by Lena_ View Post
When was that? Anytime close to the kid gone missing? Could you provide time-data of possible being seen again to check if the chart supports the timing?
I don't have this info, but I'll check to see what I can get, and if I have some news, I'll post it here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poyi View Post
If it was abduction the 9th could be as oversea but the mutual reception of the body stop at Mars and Moon. I don't see any link directly to the Mars afterward. Can consider the ruler in decan of Mars.
Poyi, one question: seeing the oppinion of the others, what do you think about the accident/drowning theory?
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Last edited by wilsontc; 01-12-2014 at 02:16 PM.
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  #21  
Unread 01-10-2014, 10:04 PM
Lena_ Lena_ is offline
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Re: Missing kid

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Originally Posted by mossadrai View Post
First of all, thanks for all your info, Lena, and for having the patience to answer each of my questions. As to this, question, the sister is attractive too
Thank you for the feedback, Mossadrai.
And, Anytime! -It was my pleasure.

Last edited by Lena_; 01-11-2014 at 12:21 AM.
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  #22  
Unread 01-10-2014, 11:02 PM
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waybread waybread is offline
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Re: Missing kid

Lena, with respect to your question to me,

I personally have a slight problem with using event charts to explain very much. This seriously started when I began looking at natural disaster charts, like the one for the earthquake in Haiti in 2012. It occurred to me that almost the identical chart would pertain to the adjacent Dominican Republic (sharing the same island) and even portions of Haiti. Yet these areas were not hit. The chart angles might very slightly for nearby Caribbean islands (or southern Florida) but most of the planetary positions would be identical regardless of whether the earthquake hit them or not.

Probably with disaster charts there is more to get to, like planetary lines; but the relevance for this thread is that all of those thousands of victims would have had dramatically different nativities, yet so many of them died almost simultaneously, or within days of one another. The basic arithmetic of mortality in reading event charts just did not compute.

So if we move the missing child problem to a plain old event chart, we have to realize that it is equally a chart of everything else going on in the boy's entire region. He went missing, but did anyone else?

We can't look at transits or progressions to the boy's nativity, because his birth data aren't known. This isn't a horary question and chart, so basically there is no way to personalize this particular event chart.

Heaven knows that horary has its problems, but at least horary targets a particular question.

Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly, above. No, I wouldn't use a simple event chart as a horary chart unless, obviously, the question were asked at the time of the event. Then you basically have a horary chart. You have to then decide which house represents the missing child depending upon his relation to the querent (if any), turn the chart, and so on.

In horary, there are some rules about discerning the querent's intentions. In event-chart reading, I think we have to consider the chart in its context, or look "outside the chart."

Lena, I have great respect for your horary reading! Probably you know all of the above and I just didn't explain myself adequately in my initial post.
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Last edited by waybread; 01-10-2014 at 11:20 PM.
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Unread 01-10-2014, 11:42 PM
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Re: Missing kid

Just a bit more on event charts generally. See:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astro...-astrology.php
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astro...ting-chart.php

We've all heard of "first meeting" charts for a romantic relationship, which seems to be their most common usage. There are people who swear by them, essentially taking them as a nativity of a particular event. (Cf. also electional and mundane astrology event charts.)

These have been used like nativities, such that major events in the relationship would be tracked through transits and progressions.

Also, horary astrologers will often cast a meeting chart or a phone call chart for the time when the client makes an appointment or prepares to ask the question. Supposedly it sheds further light on what is really going on in the client's mind (or in the ozone, I suppose) at that time. These event charts are also often compared with the nativity.

But these event charts generally purport to show something about the quality of a moment in time. I think this is different than using them as a sort of substitute horary in connection with a question, which in this case seems to be "what has happened to the missing boy?"

A big question, for me, in an event chart, is what makes it radical.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And well change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.

Last edited by waybread; 01-10-2014 at 11:45 PM.
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Unread 01-10-2014, 11:50 PM
Lena_ Lena_ is offline
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Re: Missing kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Lena, with respect to your question to me,

I personally have a slight problem with using event charts to explain very much. This seriously started when I began looking at natural disaster charts, like the one for the earthquake in Haiti in 2012. It occurred to me that almost the identical chart would pertain to the adjacent Dominican Republic (sharing the same island) and even portions of Haiti. Yet these areas were not hit. The chart angles might very slightly for nearby Caribbean islands (or southern Florida) but most of the planetary positions would be identical regardless of whether the earthquake hit them or not.

Probably with disaster charts there is more to get to, like planetary lines; but the relevance for this thread is that all of those thousands of victims would have had dramatically different nativities, yet so many of them died almost simultaneously, or within days of one another. The basic arithmetic of mortality in reading event charts just did not compute.

So if we move the missing child problem to a plain old event chart, we have to realize that it is equally a chart of everything else going on in the boy's entire region. He went missing, but did anyone else?

We can't look at transits or progressions to the boy's nativity, because his birth data aren't known. This isn't a horary question and chart, so basically there is no way to personalize this particular event chart.

Heaven knows that horary has its problems, but at least horary targets a particular question.

Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly, above. No, I wouldn't use a simple event chart as a horary chart unless, obviously, the question were asked at the time of the event. Then you basically have a horary chart. You have to then decide which house represents the missing child depending upon his relation to the querent (if any), and so on.

In horary, there are some rules about discerning the querent's intentions. In event-chart reading, I think we have to consider the chart in its context, or look "outside the chart."

Lena, I have great respect for your horary reading! Probably you know all of the above and I just didn't explain myself adequately in my initial post.
A*C*G has a lot to say in transits as I see it. There are the transiting Cusps which also have a saying onto the effect of the manifestation. Yet I never stumbled upon an astrologer commenting, say, on the decan of the, say, 8th Cusp of a catastrofic Event that took place or on which planetary Hour it was.. Yes, the natal is important to an event chart but event charts aren't helpless all together. Neighborn towns have different angles/cusps -even if just by few degrees or seconds. Many times those seconds can be crusial as they swing into another planetary hour.

What I found interesting was the timing the OP chose for the chart. Even unknowingly, the first chart due to Moon quincunxing the AC is a bullseye.

It could be anytime in the time-span that was suggested.. This, is personal interferrance in a way. The same "personal" touch we seek in a horary chart.

I would follow as easily if the time was upon the announcement for it would mean much for the family or the professionals who do have a personal connection to the matter.

Bottoms line, imo, Horary Timing isn't really much onto *current* rather onto *choice*.. And I didn't see anything in this chart as a restriction against analysing, especially with PoF in 8th.

You always had a way to electrocute my scattered thoughts channeling them towards conclusions; even if untold...

Thanks Way,

Lena
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Unread 01-11-2014, 12:04 AM
mossadrai mossadrai is offline
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Re: Missing kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Mossadrai, I believe that I have located you on the Internet, as I mentioned to you on your other recent thread. To the extent that there is a "personal" dimension in my posts to you, you will see it there. I don't know if you are a "spiritual" member of your faith, let alone an observant one; but if so, you will see my ethical arguments there.
Thanks for explaining, Waybread. I don't know why I was feeling some kind of animosity from you towards me, but your words are cristal clear. Thanks for that.

However, I didn't understand this part of your message. Where have you found me? Have you sent me a message about anything? Because I'm afraid I didn't get it, and I would like to answer, as I always do. I am a kabbalist, then I guess you could call me a "spiritual" member of my faith. But I still don't get the meaning, if you tried to contact me or what. If you can shed further light I will be very greateful!

Best Regards!
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