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  #26  
Unread 10-06-2009, 12:08 AM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

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Originally Posted by divine g View Post
PS Kanshu my asc is progressing into Virgo in few months..what makes you feel that Virgo asc represents a loner type?
I probably read it somewhere. But I cannot cite any astrologer right now.

The loner type has a strong Virgo influence. The ascendant is just a way for a non-native to be one. Another way is for your 6th house to be occupied by an outer planet.

- - -

In my chart, I have: (1) a Virgo ascendant, (2) Saturn in my 6th house (ruled by Virgo) in opposition to a stellium of heavy planets including Mars, (3) Saturn is the most important planet in my chart so the 6th house of Virgo has strong meaning, and (4) a Venus without any aspect with other planets.

The rest of my chart, it seems, tend to amplify my Virgo qualities.


Last edited by kanshu; 10-06-2009 at 05:12 AM.
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  #27  
Unread 10-06-2009, 12:20 AM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

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Originally Posted by Vinyasa View Post
Type 1: The Self-sufficient lone wolf. He is self-sufficient, period. He is disciplined. He is responsible. He is aware of the “trip” and of its difficulties. In a world of “let’s have fun and tomorrow is another day”, he is clearly too serious to be mixed with the crowd. He even has a sarcastic humour that often keeps people away. He chose the path because he is aware of the fact that he performs much better when alone. Team-work oriented should not be written under the personal features in his Resume.
I would agree with this one. But I think a strong Virgo influence will most probably create the loner type compared to other signs.
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  #28  
Unread 10-06-2009, 02:46 AM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

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Originally Posted by astrologer50 View Post
Thanks for the links!

Here is an article I identified with, being a "lone wolf" person:
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/199...27feature.html

Is that the kind of lone wolf you are talking about? It makes me want to hug that lady who wrote it, because she UNDERSTANDS.

I think Virgo is pretty neutral on the subject of being alone and liking it... it is ruled by Mercury, and Mercury in general is pretty neutral. Although, with all the dispute about what trans-neptunian planet might possibly be the true ruler of Virgo, there is room for doubt.

If Virgo is a by-yourselfer, it is because no one can match up to its idea of perfection, but there are many ways to deal with that. I'd be careful about whether or not a lot of Virgo in your chart would make you more of a loner when you also say that Saturn is the most important planet in your chart. (I have Saturn in the 6th house too... I've read that this is a "scientist" position... Mr Gauquelin says ).
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  #29  
Unread 10-06-2009, 03:17 AM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

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Originally Posted by Flapjacks View Post
If Virgo is a by-yourselfer, it is because no one can match up to its idea of perfection, but there are many ways to deal with that. I'd be careful about whether or not a lot of Virgo in your chart would make you more of a loner when you also say that Saturn is the most important planet in your chart. (I have Saturn in the 6th house too... I've read that this is a "scientist" position... Mr Gauquelin says ).
About spotting the most important planet, I learned that from astrologer Noel Tyl. In a locomotive pattern (3 or more empty houses), the first planet counter-clockwise is the most important.
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  #30  
Unread 10-06-2009, 04:42 AM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

* elevated Saturn in the chart (by sign or by house disposition)
Saturn in 11th
* Saturn as ruler of 5th or 7th
No
* Saturn elevated + aspecting Moon by trine/sextile
elevated and trining my moon
* Jupiter in Capricorn and/or in the 12th
No
* Mercury in Sagittarius and Venus in Capricorn or Aquarius
Merc in sag and venus in aq
* Grand Trine in water signs
grandtrine water of moon saturn and neptune

Just going back to the original question.... I have four of the aspects and positions. So am I a lone wolf??? I like my own company can spend ages by myself, not that good at expressing my feelings even with a cancer moon. Take a long while to get to know people and open up.

Yet with a seventh house sun and jupiter in the first I generally get on with most people. I have a balance of alone time and mixing. I have lived on my own off and on for the past seven years, but was in a long term relationship before that.

I have that lone wolf character in me but it is neither destructive of separatist. I feel it is my choice to move between the worlds of community and singularity. Art is a big thing in life for me and certain amount of solitariness is necesssary for the muse to flow, to listen in and connect within.

Rules of three may indicate a pattern, but I dont think they can show how they work in a persons life, as the chart works as a model of the whole life, and models are always imperfect to some degree as they cannot hold the wholeness of a persons life. Astrology comes oretty close, I have always been impressed about that.

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  #31  
Unread 10-06-2009, 09:24 AM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

flapjacks,
Quote:
If Virgo is a by-yourselfer, it is because no one can match up to its idea of perfection, but there are many ways to deal with that. I'd be careful about whether or not a lot of Virgo in your chart would make you more of a loner when you also say that Saturn is the most important planet in your chart. (I have Saturn in the 6th house too... I've read that this is a "scientist" position... Mr Gauquelin says ).
Kanshu is correct, saturn is the 'handle' of bucket chart and placed in 6th can have serious effects on ones health. Saturn represents a 'lack' usually of confidence in the house of health, co-workers and daily routines. This is the area we put extra effort in, to be responsible, dutiful and work hard.
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  #32  
Unread 10-06-2009, 11:25 AM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

Lone wolf syndrome ..... sounds like a disease.

I can relate to wishing to spend time alone, however I refuse to fit in a box or syndrome. (uranus and aqua here)

I have neptune in first - have meditated on and off since 2000! I see this as place i go to get strengthe. Saturn in 5th in a grand water trine but I see saturn here as strengthening that grand trine and making more earthy. Im glad the pisces moon is not parr of the grand trine cos I think this would make me a lot more sensitive.

I do relate to the lazy bit(grand trine in water) although people who have worked with me would not say so I do work hard(but I am aware of a tendancy to sit back and let it happen and it scares me a bit so I try to go in the opposite direction) I have lots of pisces planets and that imfamous pisces moon. I am one of those people that really needs her sleep and is very aware of others emotions.

So very receptive to others feelings and increasing find it difficult in certain social situations ie in pubs and clubs. I know longer frequent. Yep i read a lot .

I do enjoy my own company and many say I am very independent - an aqua sun. oh yeh I have scorpio rising.

Do I feel lonely ? I guess sometimes I do! However I do not wish to be around people sometimes or indeed would prefer to me on my own that in a conflicting relationships - some friends would prefer to be in a difficult relationships than alone.

Im not that great in group situations but have got better (since meditating) However people gravitate towards me in groups and tell me I am very warm!

Im going off line now for a while - as I guess I would . got loads to sort out
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  #33  
Unread 10-06-2009, 03:46 PM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

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The most common, of course, is a strong Virgo influence like a Virgo Ascendant. By the way, a virgin in ancient times refer to a woman who does not belong to any man. In the same manner, a Virgo is a person who does not belong to anybody.
Kanshu, I like the comparison! And indeed I know many Virgo's, not only men, who are indeed lone wolfs and a prime example is my own partner! He is a real loner, never bothered alone, no matter which situation he is in. He even works completely alone (his own business) but no one else the whole day. OK, phonecalls from clients, but that is it. No friends either. His clients are his "friends" but nothing close.
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  #34  
Unread 10-06-2009, 03:57 PM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

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Originally Posted by starlink View Post
Kanshu, I like the comparison! And indeed I know many Virgo's, not only men, who are indeed lone wolfs and a prime example is my own partner! He is a real loner, never bothered alone, no matter which situation he is in. He even works completely alone (his own business) but no one else the whole day. OK, phonecalls from clients, but that is it. No friends either. His clients are his "friends" but nothing close.
Yup. That's why a Virgo is the perfect silent partner. I think a business should never be without a Virgo manager. They are so reliable. In fact, I read somewhere that you can actually set your watch to a Virgo.
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  #35  
Unread 10-06-2009, 11:56 PM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

Quote:
The most common, of course, is a strong Virgo influence like a Virgo Ascendant.
kanshu, I've been thinking: isn't that so, that by having Virgo Asc (and with use of Placidus and by living in average distance from equator), you get most probably Saturn as ruler of 5th? (And Saturn on the 7th cusp ruler would bring us then to a Scorpio rising, right?) So, the full debate of whether Virgos are born loners or not, does not actually bring us far away from the 2nd indication posted in my original post here:

Quote:
I do not wish to personify the question, it is a general theme that concerns a discrete number of people. I always think with the rule of three, so I would like to find at least 3 indications in the same chart:

* elevated Saturn in the chart (by sign or by house disposition)
* Saturn as ruler of 5th or 7th
* Saturn elevated + aspecting Moon by trine/sextile
* Jupiter in Capricorn and/or in the 12th
* Mercury in Sagittarius and Venus in Capricorn or Aquarius
* Grand Trine in water signs
So I am not actually convinced that a Virgo Asc by itself would make someone lone wolf... I want to have at least 3 indications. But ok, under the above scheme, yes, Virgo rising would be one of those...

Quote:
First of all, for me, lonewolf = an independent person. It does not necessarily mean lonely or melancholic.
For me too. Lone wolf is someone who dares or chooses a certain lifestyle because for some (different) reasons he does not cope with the standards of the social life. He may have a very successful social life if he chooses to, but he is very self-contained. He is not unable to fit-in, he is (most often) unwilling. My remark about the "sentence to eternal loneliness" was rather referring to the generalization concerning Virgo Asc.

Quote:
If Virgo is a by-yourselfer, it is because no one can match up to its idea of perfection, but there are many ways to deal with that.
I agree here with Flapjacks: Virgo is a perfectionist in many aspects, but this by itself does not make someone lone-wolf, i.e. does not give to someone the strength and wish to exist as self-contained human being. Can also very well create (if not properly worked upon) a very pitiful individual, ready to complain about everything, unable to co-operate, willing to spend the rest of his life correcting the tiny details of zero importance. There are a lot of ways to deal with the concept of perfection, that's for sure.

By the way, this was a very nice article... I have seen how in the last 10 years there are more and more books and articles written by women and addressing to (single) women... Seems that the corresponding reading public is continuously increasing...

Quote:
Lone wolf syndrome ..... sounds like a disease.

I can relate to wishing to spend time alone, however I refuse to fit in a box or syndrome. (uranus and aqua here)
Caro, unfortunately it seems that if you are a lone wolf, either you must become a hero, or you are "an error in the matrix". Not much of a choice, eh? Have a look:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loner
The modern term "loner" is usually used with a negative connotation in the belief that human beings are social creatures and those that do not participate are deviant. In popular culture, however, there is a certain romanticism in the idea of the loner since he or she is seen as special and unique. This can be attributed to the notion that truly great people often lurk in the shadows of societies that espouse corrupt or superficial standards of existence. As a result, the concept of a lonely hero is a recurring theme in stories.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lone_wolf_(trait)

A lone wolf is a wolf that lives by itself rather than with others as part of a pack. [...] Some wolves will simply remain lone wolves; as such, lone wolves are usually stronger, more aggressive and far more dangerous than the average wolf that is a member of a pack. [...] Sometimes, a lone wolf will find another lone wolf of the opposite sex, and the two will start a new pack.

Quote:
I do relate to the lazy bit(grand trine in water) although people who have worked with me would not say so I do work hard(but I am aware of a tendancy to sit back and let it happen and it scares me a bit so I try to go in the opposite direction)
I have repeatedly read on the net that grand trines in water render the individual lazy, but this I do not actually believe nor have I confirmed from the people with such pattern from whom the charts I have in my hands. What I generally believe is that a grand trine can often be non-productive, because we all tend to put extra effort on the problematic aspects, the pressure of which we (constantly) feel. No-one cares about putting extra effort on something which seems to work good - so we do not benefit out of it. A grand trine is the best energy flowing pattern in a chart: as long as its owner is not aware of its meaning in the chart, cannot work on it, and therefore does not get benefit of this energy. However, it does not mean that the owner is lazy at doing his job, or his housework, or study his lessons... If we merely attribute laziness to such a pattern, we risk to misunderstand its meaning and the reason for existing in the chart. Especially for the grand trine in water signs, as far as I know the individual needs more time for meditation and introspection - because the emotions can run very high there.

Flea, I'm glad you jumped in, as owner of 4 of the basic conditions I initially had thought could render someone a lone wolf!
Quote:
I have that lone wolf character in me but it is neither destructive of separatist. I feel it is my choice to move between the worlds of community and singularity.
To my opinion the above quote as well as the full post of yours confirms that lone wolves are not diseased [sigh of relief, Caro ] ; that they may also live an - at least seemingly - more conventional life, but what matters is that inside there is always somewhere the belief that they can manage also very well by their own, at any moment they choose to. And of course it confirms also that as you said, astrology comes pretty close, but surely cannot dictate the lifestyle of an individual.
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Last edited by Vinyasa; 10-07-2009 at 12:07 AM. Reason: amendment
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  #36  
Unread 10-07-2009, 01:48 AM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

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Originally Posted by Vinyasa View Post
kanshu, I've been thinking: isn't that so, that by having Virgo Asc (and with use of Placidus and by living in average distance from equator), you get most probably Saturn as ruler of 5th? (And Saturn on the 7th cusp ruler would bring us then to a Scorpio rising, right?) So, the full debate of whether Virgos are born loners or not, does not actually bring us far away from the 2nd indication posted in my original post here:

So I am not actually convinced that a Virgo Asc by itself would make someone lone wolf... I want to have at least 3 indications. But ok, under the above scheme, yes, Virgo rising would be one of those...
Actually, the entire premise or logic of my answers was about the concept of ascendants. The ascendant is our public self or how the world sees us. This means that the rising sign should be taken literally as some kind of alter ego.

If we were to agree with the concept of ascendants, then we should take the assignment of another sign in its literal sense and explain the lack of intensity because of other factors. We would be doing it backwards if we use other factors to account for the meaning of the ascendant.

Another related concept is the mid-heaven. It is supposed to be our inner self. So, in a sense, we can have as many as three personalities--a public self, a private self and our true self (or our Sun sign). It just so happened that I am a Gemini so the different versions of my personality got concentrated in two signs--Gemini and Virgo.


P.S. I'm not well versed in the different house system. I'm using the default "equal house" setting of the World-of-Wisdom software. I think that's the Tropical system.

Anyway, I'm a bit confused with your reference to Scorpio. If we say Virgo is the Ascendant then Virgo is the rising sign.

Last edited by kanshu; 10-07-2009 at 01:59 AM.
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  #37  
Unread 10-07-2009, 09:42 AM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

kenshu
Quote:
Another related concept is the mid-heaven. It is supposed to be our inner self. So, in a sense, we can have as many as three personalities--a public self, a private self and our true self (or our Sun sign). It just so happened that I am a Gemini so the different versions of my personality got concentrated in two signs--Gemini and Virgo.
MC is not our inner selves that is your sun sign, core beliefs, values and pride...

MC = You will identify with and admire the qualities of the sign on the Mid-heaven – it is what you become known for through career, work, society. It indicates very personal &/or spiritual goals too.

It can be said that the Mid-heaven sign represents our life goal; the Ascendant sign represents our way of achieving that goal
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  #38  
Unread 10-07-2009, 10:55 AM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

Hi V and others

an interesting topic,

I too thought about the concept of lone wolf yesterday. I think it can sound predatory it is indeed rare as you point out wolves hunt in packs. No way am I am predator!!! So a wolf alone would be seen as odd and something to be feared. I think there have been books and films on this concept which are quite interesting to check out if this has fired your imagination.

the animal totem for lone wolf is very protective and caring of its pack. A very powerful totem. (native american indian) A number of people I know have this as a totem(actually all fire sun signs)

I meant to post about some of my friends with some of your tick box categories, however they are all sun sign sagi's - to my knowledge you would have to take all sagis out of this category. However I know that someone will now post to the contrary. Cos although these sagi friends like to be alone and pick and choose their company they can also be the life and soul of the party, on stage in front of 1000's in a rock group but equally go off for months without contacting friends and family. (one of them used to be my partner)

I would put one of my virgo friends in this category but many love company and indeed can not live alone/be alone for too long!! That is the beauty of astrology - the individual!

V -havent checked your chart but do you have virgo in it - this is a real tick box/clipboard syndrome.

really have to get off this board now...... too much to do but it has been very educational. thanks for posting.

c
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  #39  
Unread 10-07-2009, 01:43 PM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

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Originally Posted by astrologer50 View Post
kenshu


MC is not our inner selves that is your sun sign, core beliefs, values and pride...

MC = You will identify with and admire the qualities of the sign on the Mid-heaven – it is what you become known for through career, work, society. It indicates very personal &/or spiritual goals too.

It can be said that the Mid-heaven sign represents our life goal; the Ascendant sign represents our way of achieving that goal
Yup. You're right. I just read my book. The Mid-heaven sign is what we will actually be known for. I haven't really exerted any effort to distinguish them from each other because, like I said, I only have two signs to worry about since my Sun sign and Mid-heaven sign are the same.

But still of the three, the ascendant or rising sign will be the one we need to understand because it is our public self. For many, the only sign they know is their Sun sign. This will make it hard for them to fully appreciate their charts.


P.S. My forum name is Kanshu. It's Japanese for spectator. Kenshu, on the other hand, is Japanese for training.
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Unread 10-07-2009, 04:43 PM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

I am a total lone wolf, but not anti-social one - I just love to be alone in my own home in my pajamas and think about things. I love my own space and I feel mostly alone in groups where I feel like I understand these people but they don't really get me. I am on a people concearned field, psychology, so I am not really withdrawn from people, I just like to be by myself. I can be very "aggressive" (capricornian way) and active with people, but only for some time and then I NEED my own space or I start to lose it. I need the loneliness to ground myself and really to find again who I am. Am I a visioner, I have high ideals and I have strong work ethics and I cannot think of going to party or something if it might affect my studies or work. But I am not dull or boring, I am very humoristic and very fun to be around with but it seems like I have these two sides of me, the social happy, active one and the silent thinker.

Silence is something I love. Sometimes I love to listen to music at home, but usually I just love to be with my own thoughts. It seems like if I have music on it distracts my thinking too much. Sometimes it's a good thing though.

I have strong Saturn-Capricorn-10th house influence with Neptune and 12th house: Sun, Neptune and Mercury in 10th, Jupiter in Aries and Venus in Aquarius in 12th and Moon in 4th opposing Neptune on my MC. Pluto 7th trines my Moon and Mars is in 7th.
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Unread 10-07-2009, 04:50 PM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

Ebenia,
You just described me to a tee! Were we separated at birth? LOL
The part about silence especially struck me. In my experience, it seems like people that value silence are a rarity. Almost everyone I've ever had to share living space with has just had to have some sort of noise going all the time - radio, tv - sometimes both at once! Not me! I love music, but I think I love silence even more!

My chart is in link at bottom of my post.

FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebenia View Post
I am a total lone wolf, but not anti-social one - I just love to be alone in my own home in my pajamas and think about things. I love my own space and I feel mostly alone in groups where I feel like I understand these people but they don't really get me. I am on a people concearned field, psychology, so I am not really withdrawn from people, I just like to be by myself. I can be very "aggressive" (capricornian way) and active with people, but only for some time and then I NEED my own space or I start to lose it. I need the loneliness to ground myself and really to find again who I am. Am I a visioner, I have high ideals and I have strong work ethics and I cannot think of going to party or something if it might affect my studies or work. But I am not dull or boring, I am very humoristic and very fun to be around with but it seems like I have these two sides of me, the social happy, active one and the silent thinker.

Silence is something I love. Sometimes I love to listen to music at home, but usually I just love to be with my own thoughts. It seems like if I have music on it distracts my thinking too much. Sometimes it's a good thing though.

I have strong Saturn-Capricorn-10th house influence with Neptune and 12th house: Sun, Neptune and Mercury in 10th, Jupiter in Aries and Venus in Aquarius in 12th and Moon in 4th opposing Neptune on my MC. Pluto 7th trines my Moon and Mars is in 7th.
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Unread 10-07-2009, 08:54 PM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

Very interesting, freedomlover! I looked at your chart and actually it does not have so many similarities than I would have expected to see, but maybe your Mercury in 12th squaring Saturn is one of the key issues.

Loving the silence is totally rarity but what is more rare, is silence it self! We hear always some noise around us and usually it is not pleasant, especially in the cities. People have not used to the silence and I think it frightens people - hearing their own thoughts can sometimes be unpleasant...
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Unread 10-07-2009, 11:02 PM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebenia View Post
Very interesting, freedomlover! I looked at your chart and actually it does not have so many similarities than I would have expected to see, but maybe your Mercury in 12th squaring Saturn is one of the key issues.

Loving the silence is totally rarity but what is more rare, is silence it self! We hear always some noise around us and usually it is not pleasant, especially in the cities. People have not used to the silence and I think it frightens people - hearing their own thoughts can sometimes be unpleasant...
Yes, I think the square by Saturn has much to do with it, as well as probably the t-square in general, since Mercury is the apex. Mercury being in 12th likes both solitude and silence - and music! Being the ruler of my 6th, I think it is crucial to my health and well-being that I'm able to have this silence. It is disposited by my unaspected Jupiter Rx in Gemini in the 6th, cusp of 7th, further showing the implications in my health. Also - Jupiter is retrograde in Gemini - cut back on the communications?! I have to have the silence to "hear myself think", or else all I hear is what others think! I know there is a place of mastery in which one can meditate amongst a crowd and have perfect silence in your head. However, I'm not there yet!

To further illustrate my chart and how it describes the tendency to be a "lone wolf"..... I think the answer lies in the Cap Asc and Cap Mars and Venus in the 1st AND Aquarius Moon in the 1st. It's hard to be very different and fit in with tradition and what other people expect of you.

By progression, I have several placements in the 12th, as well. My Sun is now in Cap in the 12th. My Mars and now Rx Venus are conjunct in Aquarius in the 12th.

Also, I think much of mine is the extreme sensitivity to negative energy put out by others. I'm not sure what to attribute this to, but I suspect my Cancer Asc and the Saturn/Chiron/Ceres in Pisces in the 2nd. My energy is really drained around others. I've spoken to a few other "lone wolves" who quote this type of thing as a major reason they keep to themselves.


Thanks again for your thought, Ebenia. They were most helpful to me. Hopefully our posts on this have been a good contribution to Vinyasa's thread - I know yours are!
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  #44  
Unread 10-07-2009, 11:33 PM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

FL, I've just had another look at your chart and I think chiron opp uranus as well as Aquarius moon just screams independence
Even those who are more introverted and less inclined to become directly involved in social and political issues will quietly seek out the unusual, the bizarre, and follow paths going counter to collective norms; they will sometimes have close friends or enemies who are very obviously Uranian (Aquarius types)

People with Chiron/Uranus contacts can be brilliant and original thinkers; they are iconoclastic and challenging, and often perceive situations with penetrating clarity; their laser‑beam mind may make others feel uncomfortable, as they often survey life from a position of distance and detachment. Their wound may be a lack of connection with their personal feelings, as well as the disillusionment felt when life fails to live up to their ideal plan.

Plus chiron opp pluto Often they have great emotional depth and penetrating insight into others. Once able to encompass their own emotional wounds they are capable of great loyalty in relationships; nothing shocks them, as they see and accept the very worst in themselves and others. Chiron/Pluto initiates transformation through ­acceptance of what is, at the deepest level.

The emotional reserve shown by many people sometimes conceals a fear of their own unexpressed or imagined anger and ­destructiveness; they may silently say; "Keep away for your own good," but also hope that you won't, as they long for their fears to be proved groundless.

Last edited by astrologer50; 10-07-2009 at 11:36 PM.
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Unread 10-08-2009, 01:50 AM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

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Originally Posted by astrologer50 View Post
FL, I've just had another look at your chart and I think chiron opp uranus as well as Aquarius moon just screams independence
Now you know why I chose my screenname and avatar And I thought it was just my Sag Sun and Aquarius Moon.

Thanks once again for the information, astrologer50!
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Unread 10-08-2009, 11:41 PM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

Quote:
Anyway, I'm a bit confused with your reference to Scorpio. If we say Virgo is the Ascendant then Virgo is the rising sign.
Hi Kanshu, the reference to Scorpio had to do with the second of my initial list of indicators, namely "Saturn as ruler of 5th or 7th". What I was saying in my previous post, is that with Placidus and average distance from equator (but on second thought, with equal house system too), Saturn is ruler of the 5th for Virgo rising (or Virgo Asc, it's the same) and ruler of the 7th for Scorpio rising. 5th and 7th are the most interpersonal houses, the ones connecting one-to-one. Speaking for lone wolves, most probably the 11th would also play an important role, as it relates one-to-group. So, in order to get Capricorn on cusp of 11th, most probably Pisces is rising [bingo!] or even Aries [may i say bingo again? re: one of the first posts in this thread of divine g...]

Quote:
I think there have been books and films on this concept which are quite interesting to check out if this has fired your imagination.
Caro you are right, it is indeed one of the favourite motives in both literature and film industry. At least in literature, top of my list lone wolf hero would be Frankenstein (Uranian flavour - the author, Mary Shelley, acc. astro-databank is a Virgo Sun with Sagi Moon, Cancer rising and Saturn right on the Asc).

Do you know more about the animal totem? I find it highly interesting...

Agree about Sagis: they are not just the life of the party... I have found out that many Sagis are just XXL in a lot of aspects: when they decide to throw a party must be the one with 1000 guests... and when they decide to disappear they make you wonder whether you should declare them to the red cross... I suppose it is oversimplicity to connect them simply to jupiter's joviality: jupiter's excessiveness is also there as much more I suppose...

Quote:
V -havent checked your chart but do you have virgo in it - this is a real tick box/clipboard syndrome.
Virgo rising... Mercury and Mars final dispositors of the chart in mutual reception... [chart is in the signature]

Thank you All for your contributions so far, I've learnt a lot in the last days and hopefully I will continue to... And most importantly, I saw how one lone wolf finds another lone wolf and then another and another, and altogether they make a new pack of not that lonely wolves anymore

But please allow me to dedicate the next song from the 60s especially to Ebenia & Freedomlover:

[...] And in the naked light I saw,
ten thousand people, maybe more.
People talking without speaking,
people hearing without listening,
people writing songs that voices never share.
And no-one dared
Disturb the sound of silence.
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Unread 10-09-2009, 11:02 AM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

V - I knew it - virgo ascendant!

I was thinking of actual films about lone men and lone wolfs(a book too if I remember) I think in alask/north america. but you have taken it a step further and I guess you are right. the incredible hulk, batman even???(of course wonder woman) not as classical as frankenstein but a similar concept.Also 'werewolf' which is really about the fear in primitive nature.

I also love silence. with my therapy work, I prefer no music but it is up to client. it has been interesting doing my case studies as I go to home of stressed clients they have tv, radio on all windows open - a need to connect with something. I think an anxiety not to be alone.

more on grand trine in water, the 'lazy' interpretation is indeed a very lazy interpretation of this trine. looking at it again, I lack energy in my chart(no fire really) so this is what I fear. however this would not be true of everyone with a grand water trine.

animal totem's very interesting. you can do meditations to work with this. there is a lot of stuff on web explaining this.

link
http://www.crystalinks.com/totemanimals.html

I must admit - I prefer 'free spirit' to 'lone wolf' though.

got to get on......
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Unread 10-09-2009, 01:28 PM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

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Originally Posted by Caro View Post

I must admit - I prefer 'free spirit' to 'lone wolf' though.
I know you probably did not mean the thing I am about to contrast here, but this contradiction of free spirit and lone wolf is something I need to address!

To me, free spirit is completely different than lone wolf. To me, free spirit means more like gemini-sagittarius influenced person, with no worries of tomorrow, happiness in their heart and free to go and stay in their minds and in their concrete life.

But, the way I see lone wolf, is completely different. I feel that lone wolfs are definately not free - they are in many ways bounded by their own wounds and very much clinged into their scars and hurts. Not always, but many times. Sometimes also being by ones self is escaping somehow, and I understand this cause I have stated my self as a "lone wolf" also.

I mean, that there is totally different people and people want to be by themselves for different reasons, but to me, lone wolf syndrome does not psychologically mean anything of being free. Maybe trying to be free, but not really doing it. These things can often be seen in Saturnian influence - Saturn also represents fear.

But this is just something that came to me when I read your post and I know you probably did not mean it like this, but I just wanted to talk about this, cause I feel like it could give something new for this thread.

Edit. Thank you Vinyasa for your lovely words. They really touched my heart!
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Unread 10-09-2009, 01:46 PM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

Cheers Vinyasa

I do think some people will interpret the lone wolf thing very differently. For some it is an inibility or need not to be part of community and relationship. For others it is someone who shows a high degree of independence, and for others the ability to separate themselves from the pack in order to take an effective lead in the direction of the community.

It gets very complex all of a sudden, and the way each chart combines starts to tell a story. I do think there is an issue with a three aspect rule... not so much in its workability but in the interpretation being held too rigidly, and so falling away from the reality and experience a person has in life.

FleaXXX
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Unread 10-09-2009, 08:29 PM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

Ebenia - your take on this is interesting. you mention the heaviness of it/the need to be away from it all so person needs to escape from emotional etc. So maybe sun sign - air signs dont fit. This definitely reflects the wilderness man film i saw many years ago - who befriended a wolf. will try and get the name of the film as I am sure it was based on a true story. I definitely think it is actually quite a rare trait and that is why it can be feared. I have been up in the mountains but not alone - for safety reasons! Have met a number trekking alone and I admire that.

so Im probably not quite in this category although I tick at least 3 boxes.

also elements will show up in others charts but not the 'full' type

a lot of my friends are sagi's and geminis and like to be alone but are fine in company. as I said earlier sagi's for me definitley not in this 'lone wolf ' category.
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