Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Other Astrology > Research and Development

Research and Development This is a forum designed for applying scientific methods and understanding to all approaches of astrology, cooperative formulation and testing of new ideas, re-examination of known methods of delineation and interpretation, and the exploration of new astrological methods of all kinds (e.g. heliocentric models, planetary nodes and apogees, etc.).


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 03-20-2019, 12:10 AM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: France.
Posts: 119
Smile Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Hello,

a) I am interested in birth charts of people born nearby and especially beyond the Polar Circle whose birth data mention the time. It may be you, a family member, a friend or even an artist or a well-known politician or anyone born:
- in Alaska (as in Barrow became Utqiagvik, Kotzebue or Prudhoe Bay)
- in the Yukon (Old Crow, Mayo or Dawson City)

- in the Northwest Territories (as in Inuvik)
- in Nunavut (as in Igloulik or Alert)
- in Greenland (as in Ilulissat, Nuuk, Sisimiut or Maniitsoq)
- in Iceland (as in Reykjavik or Kópavogur)
- in Norway (as in Longyearbyen, Tromsø, Trondheim, Bodø, Kirkenes or Hammerfest)
- in Sweden (as in Kiruna, Östersund, Umeå or Boden)
- in Finland (as in Rovaniemi, Kemijärvi, Oulu, Inari, Ivalo or Sodankylä in Lapland)
- in Russia (as in Murmansk, Norilsk, Dikson, Chersky, Pevek or Bilibino).

b) I would also appreciate any indication of Internet links of astrologers (except Andrew J. Bevan) or astrology sites offering birth charts of people born in these regions of the Arctic Circle.

Thank you in advance for your participation.
Ecliptique.

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 03-20-2019, 08:28 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,425
Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Hi, can't help you, but am curious about what you are studying. What is the project all about?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 03-20-2019, 09:23 AM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: France.
Posts: 119
Smile Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Hello ElenaJ,


I would like to see how home systems work at these very high latitudes in relation to people's experiences.



Ecliptique.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ecliptique For This Useful Post:
ElenaJ (03-20-2019)
  #4  
Unread 03-20-2019, 12:06 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,524
Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Polar houses, like its counterparts the nonreversed tropical (Sun exalted after autumnal equinox) and non-equatorial zones, are some of the contrivances that modern astrologers have put forth, not realising that they are unnatural for these geographical zones - their cosmobiology and the sociology therein.

What is most proper and natural is that the seasonal powers are less effective near the Equator and the angular powers less effective near the Poles, and proportionally therefrom (until the tropic and arctic circles). Other powers like natural significators take over instead for these regions do experience change of ambients, heat, moisture, dryness and cold, and particularly since their ancestors lived in more temperate climes with their corresponding biology.

Last edited by petosiris; 03-20-2019 at 12:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (03-20-2019), SunConjunctUranus (03-20-2019)
  #5  
Unread 03-20-2019, 01:22 PM
Gemini Pyramid Gemini Pyramid is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 94
Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

You use Equal AC houses in those polar regions.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Gemini Pyramid For This Useful Post:
Samantha Bean (03-20-2019)
  #6  
Unread 03-20-2019, 01:50 PM
Samantha Bean's Avatar
Samantha Bean Samantha Bean is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 661
Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Yes you have to use equal houses for the polar regions.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 03-20-2019, 02:14 PM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: France.
Posts: 119
Smile Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

petosiris, thanks for your reply. Can you just expand on the difference between sociologies?



Ecliptique.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 03-20-2019, 02:27 PM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: France.
Posts: 119
Smile Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Gemini Pyramid and Samantha Bean, I agree with you that the system of equal houses would be an adequate application but to my knowledge there has not been a serious and consistent study comparing the different house systems for lack of a lack of accurate birth data of native people from the polar regions beyond the Arctic Circle. I think that does not allow us to say that this or that house system can prevail.

Ecliptique.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 03-20-2019, 07:00 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,524
Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini Pyramid View Post
You use Equal AC houses in those polar regions.
What is the natural and logical reason for using such house system at the poles (besides that it appears as such in astrological software)?

Quote:
petosiris, thanks for your reply. Can you just expand on the difference between sociologies?
I meant the difference of culture and customs (of the indigenous nations, not the foreign settlers) which are so obviously tied with the climata - perhaps the comparison of Nordic countries with Central African countries will suffice.

Last edited by petosiris; 03-20-2019 at 07:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (03-20-2019), SunConjunctUranus (03-20-2019)
  #10  
Unread 03-20-2019, 10:13 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,524
Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Or in other words, why are people living in such regions treated as deviants living under the influence of equal house systems while those living below the arctic circles under quadrants?
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (03-20-2019), SunConjunctUranus (03-21-2019)
  #11  
Unread 03-21-2019, 07:23 AM
Neptunian Rainbow's Avatar
Neptunian Rainbow Neptunian Rainbow is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Sweden
Posts: 164
Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

I always use the placidus house system. I know someone born in the northern part of Sweden. His first and seventh houses are huge and all planets except for two outer planets are situated in those houses. To me his chart seems to fit him perfectly. Nothing in his life functions. All of his energy is directed into close relationships where he can project his issues.
Can’t share a chart since I don’t have his permission, just wanted to say that I think that placidus house system works up north as well.

I use Placidus house system and sidereal charts. For me it works well.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 03-21-2019, 11:04 AM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: France.
Posts: 119
Smile Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Hello petosiris,


1) "I meant the difference of culture and customs (of the indigenous nations, not the foreign settlers) which are so obviously tied with the climata - perhaps the comparison of Nordic countries with Central African countries will suffice"


My opinion is that most people on Earth belong to a community that has its own culture and customs. Even if the community, the climate or anything else puts pressure on the individual, I think that the astrological discourse must be universal and must echo everyone that you were born in a Crow tribe, born near Quito in Ecuador, born outside the Arctic Circle, born in Algeria or Namibia, born in Israel, born in Saudi Arabia or born in France. I would say that over the centuries this speech must be understandable by everyone even a prehistoric cave Chauvet-Pont d'Arc (-36000 years) from the moment we could communicate reciprocally.


2) "Or in other words, why are people living in such regions treated as deviants living under the influence of equal house systems while those living below the arctic circles under quadrants"



I do not see why you can say that the inhabitants of the polar regions are treated as deviants and that we could only apply the system of equal houses (or even the system of whole signs) even if there are extreme cases. Quadrant systems are applicable.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 03-21-2019, 11:09 AM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: France.
Posts: 119
Smile Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Hello Neptunian Rainbow,





maybe this person will allow you to give me his birth data by private courier? In return she will get an analysis always by MP and an exchange through you if she wishes. I make a point of honor to respect people.



Ecliptique.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 03-23-2019, 02:07 PM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: France.
Posts: 119
Smile Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Originally Posted by Gemini Pyramid
You use Equal AC houses in those polar regions.



Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
What is the natural and logical reason for using such house system at the poles (besides that it appears as such in astrological software)?

The natural and logical reason for using the system of houses equal to the Ascendant as well as the quadrant systems could be the consideration that two great circles of the celestial sphere pass the opposite points Zenith and Nadir from the vertical of the place of birth. These two great circles cut the ecliptic circle reciprocally in two points (with their opposite) which are the nonagesimal point and the middle of the sky.

Ecliptique.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread 03-23-2019, 05:02 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,524
Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

The Ascendant is retrograde at times in such regions, and there is really no sense of rising, culminating (at the equal MC) and setting in any meaningful sense of these words (since some planets will be circumpolar). As such, the houses there, are in my opinion, purely fictitious points that have no bearing in nature, since even the whole sign and equal house MC derive most of their symbolism, not from their abstract aspectual relationship, but through these aforementioned phenomena for the latitude of Egypt, Babylon, the Mediterranean etc.

Quote:
I do not see why you can say that the inhabitants of the polar regions are treated as deviants and that we could only apply the system of equal houses (or even the system of whole signs) even if there are extreme cases. Quadrant systems are applicable.
I don't know where I've suggested that? Quadrant systems are applicable to some extent near the arctic.

Quote:
My opinion is that most people on Earth belong to a community that has its own culture and customs. Even if the community, the climate or anything else puts pressure on the individual, I think that the astrological discourse must be universal and must echo everyone that you were born in a Crow tribe, born near Quito in Ecuador, born outside the Arctic Circle, born in Algeria or Namibia, born in Israel, born in Saudi Arabia or born in France. I would say that over the centuries this speech must be understandable by everyone even a prehistoric cave Chauvet-Pont d'Arc (-36000 years) from the moment we could communicate reciprocally.
I doubt that marriages with siblings are that common in your country as they were in Hellenistic Egypt:

Quote:
So then, as, among all genethlialogical inquiries whatever, a more general destiny takes precedence of all particular considerations, namely, that of country of birth, to which the major details of a geniture are naturally subordinate, such as the topics of the form of the body, the character of the soul and the variations of manners and customs, it is also necessary that he who makes his inquiry naturally should always hold first to the primary and more authoritative cause, lest, misled by the similarity of the genitures, he should unwitting generally call, let us say, the Ethiopian white or straight-haired, and the German or Gaul black-skinned and woolly-haired, or the latter gentle in character, fond of discussion, or fond of contemplation, and the Greeks savage of soul and untutored of mind; or, again, on the subject of marriage, lest he mistake the appropriate customs and manners by assigning, for example, marriage with a sister to one who is Italian by race, instead of to the Egyptian as he should, and a marriage with his mother to this latter, though it suits the Persian. - Claudius Ptolemy, trans. by Robbins http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...os/4C*.html#10
Astrology is conjectural as race (particularly the inheritance of the parents), country, and upbringing take precedence over individual nativities. So, too, the obvious historical period.

But I don't see what is the problem in observing the scientific astronomical and geographical peculiarities either. As Ptolemy says, some are inclined toward horsemanship because of plain country, or toward seamanship because of the close sea, I may add, some are inclined to wealth and advancement because of the abundance of costly natural resources. All these things can add prospects for jobs, cultural advancement and increase of the necessities of life. Also, if you are born a woman in the Islamic countries in the Middle East, your life experience will be different than if you were born a woman in Europe, or say, in an indigenous tribe in Papua New Guinea, regardless of your natal placements.

Last edited by petosiris; 03-23-2019 at 05:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (03-23-2019), SunConjunctUranus (03-23-2019)
  #16  
Unread 03-24-2019, 09:20 PM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: France.
Posts: 119
Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

petosiris,

I think a majority of forum members know about the astrological quirks that occur in polar regions. I do not know if you have a preference for this or that house system to interpret birth charts of people born in these high latitudes. I created this thread primarily to collect birth data from people born beyond the Arctic Circle in order to exchange with them or with the person holding this data. At least three kinds of house system can be selected for a comparative study: the system of whole signs, the system of equal houses and the quadrant system ... No consistent study of this type of birth chart has been made to my knowledge with specific birth times. This is simply what I hope to do here, although I know it will be difficult. However perhaps amateur or professional astrologers established in these regions will want to do this type of study.
Ecliptique.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 08-02-2020, 04:42 PM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: France.
Posts: 119
Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Hello,



you can also send me a personal message directly from the forum indicating the precise data of the birth near or beyond the Arctic Circle.



Ecliptique.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Unread 11-09-2020, 05:11 AM
cosmicseeing's Avatar
cosmicseeing cosmicseeing is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 55
Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

I was born in Anchorage (198 miles from the arctic circle) here is a friends chart also born in Anchorage but in December. I may have a family member born more northern near the mouth of Yukon River

Last edited by cosmicseeing; 08-06-2021 at 04:37 PM. Reason: better photo
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Unread 11-09-2020, 10:47 AM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: France.
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicseeing View Post
Attachment 87390

I was born in Anchorage (198 miles from the arctic circle) here is a friends chart also born in Anchorage but in December. I may have a family member born more northern near the mouth of Yukon River

Hello comicseeing,

you can send me a personal message from the forum indicating the precise birth data of these people and of yourself. We will be able to see the interpretations of the birth charts with several house systems.

Ecliptique.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Unread 06-27-2021, 12:29 AM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: France.
Posts: 119
Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Hello,

a) I am interested in birth charts of people born nearby and especially beyond the Polar Circle whose birth data mention the time. It may be you, a family member, a friend or even an artist or a well-known politician or anyone born:
- in Alaska (as in Barrow became Utqiagvik, Kotzebue or Prudhoe Bay)
- in the Yukon (Old Crow, Mayo or Dawson City)

- in the Northwest Territories (as in Inuvik)
- in Nunavut (as in Igloulik or Alert)
- in Greenland (as in Ilulissat, Nuuk, Sisimiut or Maniitsoq)
- in Iceland (as in Reykjavik or Kópavogur)
- in Norway (as in Longyearbyen, Tromsø, Trondheim, Bodø, Kirkenes or Hammerfest)
- in Sweden (as in Kiruna, Östersund, Umeå or Boden)
- in Finland (as in Rovaniemi, Kemijärvi, Oulu, Inari, Ivalo or Sodankylä in Lapland)
- in Russia (as in Murmansk, Norilsk, Dikson, Chersky, Pevek or Bilibino).

b) I would also appreciate any indication of Internet links of astrologers (except Andrew J. Bevan) or astrology sites offering birth charts of people born in these regions of the Arctic Circle.

Thank you in advance for your participation.
Ecliptique.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Unread 06-27-2021, 12:35 AM
waybread's Avatar
waybread waybread is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: A class M planet near you
Posts: 17,253
Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

There have been several pretty technical discussions of the high-latitude birth problem on the Skyscript and Astrodienst forums.

Basically, if you get really skewed houses with a quadrant system like Placidus, I would probably use whole signs (with its floating angles) unless the person were born above the Arctic Circle at or near a solstice. Then I probably wouldn't use houses at all. You can still determine the degree rising at the time of the person's birth, but there's no real sunrise or sunset. We can still learn a lot from planets-in-signs.
__________________
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Unread 06-27-2021, 12:45 AM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: France.
Posts: 119
Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Good evening Waybread,

I know all of this. What is important is to get real birth data with the time given by the birth certificate.

Ecliptique.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Unread 06-27-2021, 01:20 AM
Opal's Avatar
Opal Opal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 3,509
Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Hi Ecliptique!

You could, theoretically, mail packages with 100? flyers, to the remote post offices of the towns you mentioned, and they would probably distribute them, or display them for interested persons. Flyers, translated in the language mainly spoken, detailing what information you would require to do a reading, mentioning where to get a hold of you? Maybe? You would have to word it better than I have.🙂
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Unread 06-27-2021, 08:18 AM
Ecliptique Ecliptique is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: France.
Posts: 119
Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

Dear Opal,



your idea is interesting to find among the population people curious enough to do the process. I could start with Fairbanks, etc ... (Alaska), Inuvik (Canada), Dawson City (Canada) and Igloulik (Canada), etc ...





Thanks for your Waybread and Opal responses.



Ecliptique.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ecliptique For This Useful Post:
ElenaJ (06-27-2021)
  #25  
Unread 06-27-2021, 09:54 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,425
Re: Birth charts of people born in polar region.

This sounds like a very interesting project you are working on. I can't help you, but can you keep us updated as you learn more about it? Thanks for doing it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
birth, born, charts, people, polar, region

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 11:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.