Is he serious about his proposal?

As some of you remember, I had two prison pen pals. I quit writing the second one, and have had patchy contact with the first (he is the one I know through a close friend and her cousin, also a friend). He wrote me today and is going through a hard time. It was definitely not a love letter of any kind, and then at the very bottom he wrote, "P.S. Wanna get married" (PLEASE refrain from giving me non-astrological advice about this. I'm not naive, I'm not in love with him or want this, but that doesn't negate the fact I'm surprised still). I literally just read the letter about 15 minutes ago.

I cast a chart and the Moon is low functioning in late degrees Libra, EDIT: I said "VOC" I meant "Via Combusta".

*You can see me surprised being conjunct to Uranus in the 8th house!

*Moon / Mercury both aspect Saturn (do I use Saturn here, or Jupiter because I AM asking about a relationship question?)

We're both in the other's 8th house, in a way. Moon and L7 sig.


He's never expressed feelings for me, and part of me thinks he asked just to see my reaction, get a kick out of something? I mean it's so random to me that I don't know how to take it. I would say the answer is "NO".


(P.S. Tikana, I had a thread some months back asking if I'd get married before I was 30 and the quesited sig was Jupiter. You pointed me in the direction saying something about thieves or whatever and I didn't believe it!)

I don't think he's serious.

He's Jupiter, you're Mercury. These two are past their opposition, and Jupiter retrograde and the moon are past their conjunction.

With Jupiter in your money house and Mercury in his turned money house, the question may have been financially motivated.

Moon is not VoC because it has to aspect Saturn last. There’s still an event that needs to happen...

waybread said:

I don't think he's serious.

He's Jupiter, you're Mercury. These two are past their opposition, and Jupiter retrograde and the moon are past their conjunction.

With Jupiter in your money house and Mercury in his turned money house, the question may have been financially motivated.

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It's not financial. I've never given a dime to him and he's never asked for one and never would! Fear related, maybe?

Bunraku said:

Moon is not VoC because it has to aspect Saturn last. There’s still an event that needs to happen...

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Appreciate it Bun.

Like actually getting out of prison? Lol!

A retrograde planet is not serious about anything. A rx planet also shows doing it again, you might not be the first one he proposed to and perhaps not the last one. He has other penpals? Perhaps one poor girl will fall for his charms?

He has nothing else to do sitting in prison, what else is there for him? But a girl sitting somewhere waiting for him, perhaps boosts his ego. I do hope you are not flattered by this proposal? Jupiter in sign of Venus, women. No reception towards Mercury, you. Sun, if taken as his male side also in sign of Venus. He just is looking for a woman. Any woman.

rafaella said:

A retrograde planet is not serious about anything. A rx planet also shows doing it again, you might not be the first one he proposed to and perhaps not the last one. He has other penpals? Perhaps one poor girl will fall for his charms?

He has nothing else to do sitting in prison, what else is there for him? But a girl sitting somewhere waiting for him, perhaps boosts his ego. I do hope you are not flattered by this proposal? Jupiter in sign of Venus, women. No reception towards Mercury, you. Sun, if taken as his male side also in sign of Venus. He just is looking for a woman. Any woman.

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Yeah I agree, no not flattered! He doesn't have multiple pen pals, just me, my friend, and her cousin whom he went to high school with and that's how they know each other. As I stated I was just surprised by it.

Why are we using Jupiter for him though when he's a prisoner? Some questions we have been okay using Saturn for him, and now Jupiter.

Okay. Prisoners are 12th house people, as a rule. Saturn works sometimes too, but I think 12th house is better for this chart. I'm not going to use 7, because you obviously aren't seeing him as a romantic partner.

That makes you Mercury and him Sun. They aren't connected, and the moon is partile opposite Mercury. Like within a minute applying partile.

The proposal may have been a wildcard on his part, but if it was, he changed his mind as soon as he sent the letter. I wouldn't be too concerned.

Hi LovelyMissAries:

Thanks for posting your chart and allowing me to practice! I am still a student so please keep that in mind.

The planetary hour ruler does not match the ASC ruler so the question isn't radical perhaps because of some hidden-ness or because of a high emotional state in the chart. I'll write more on that later.

The ASC is at a good degree.

The angles are mutable so "a changeable situation".

You are Mercury, peregrine, conjunct Uranus, in 8, which may allude to your concern of whether he is serious (anxious re: hidden things).

Your co-significator is the Moon, peregrine, directly opposite Mercury, in the second house, which could mean that there is a split between your head and your heart (or your intuition) on why this proposal has been forwarded. The Moon is in the Via Combusta but is protected by the beneficial star Spica.

He is Jupiter, ruler of 7, with dignity by term but retrograde in the 2nd house.

The first thing to look at is the condition of the 7th house: Jupiter rules and is retrograde so perhaps this is not the first proposal either to you or other people. Neptune is in 7 and this can be a red flag, as Neptune, even when dignified as it is here, still obscures, confuses, and sometimes deceives. As well, it can indicate addiction issues for the person signified by the house it's found in. So in this case, at best, it can mean that he is not thinking clearly at the moment or at worst he is directly trying to deceive or is in the throes of active addiction.

Neptune is in an exact quincunx with Jupiter so he is really being influenced by whatever Neptune represents in this case and I would suggest it's important that you take that into consideration.

Jupiter is disposed by Venus, which is in detriment and in the 8th house. I think that this very much alludes to what you said about him "going through a tough time". He is being influenced by whatever Venus represents and in this chart it rules the second house and the ninth. Second house rules one's own resources and the ninth may be referring in this case to lawyers or someone else that is looked to for guidance.

Interestingly, Venus is in an exact sextile with the cusp of the tenth house, which may, in this case, rule judges/courts/law enforcement in this case. So I think it's possible that there has been some "shift" in his circumstances with regard to whatever the 10th house is referring to here - ie: his sentence, potential parole/probation, etc.

I have to log off but will write some more later.

I'd hope he'd have enough common sense to change his mind!

So ... the rule for what sig we use for prisoners is flip-floppy based on the chart?

Yup. Especially when we're differentiating charts where there are multiple prisoners involved, and only one prisoner involved.

LovelyMissAries said:

Why are we using Jupiter for him though when he's a prisoner? Some questions we have been okay using Saturn for him, and now Jupiter.

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I used Jupiter as it made more sense, it was a proposal, 7th house. His role becomes that of a romantic suitor, not a prisoner. Plus Moon's last aspect shows a separation from Jupiter (his significator) basically shows your recent contact with him and then Moon translates the light of Jup to Mercury by opposition (you). Basically giving us the answer of whats next. Moon aspects point to what happened and what is about to happen.

Hope this clarifies

It does, thank you guys!

Oddity said:

Yup. Especially when we're differentiating charts where there are multiple prisoners involved, and only one prisoner involved.

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The one with the mail is what sticks out in my mind. I wasn't asking about both prisoners in one chart though - just one prisoner, and we used Saturn, unless my memory is that bad?

Pull up that chart, please. It's always possible I was mistaken.

Hi LovelyMissAries:

(continued)

On the other hand the 10th house emphasis could just be that he misses his mom (mother's day this Sunday ). So basically he's had something upset him and that's the state in which he wrote the proposal.

There is no aspect between your significators and you are not in each other's dignities which indicates that there is no real interest in marriage or any type of long term relationship. If he was sincere, you would expect that there would be an aspect and some form of reception into dignities.

So I think the answer is that he is in a temporary emotional state that perhaps he's not willing/able to cope with and has decided that getting into a relationship is a solution. Certainly this is a common enough thing in the rest of the world not just among those who are incarcerated.

The fact that your significators are in opposite houses needs to be taken into account, I believe, as it shows that you are really "not on the same page" and a relationship is probably not a good idea . His significator is retrograding back to the cusp of two, which, as someone pointed out could be relating to a financial issue but could also just relate to a need for support (resources relating to that which supports us emotionally as well).

I think that you understand instinctively that this is not an ideal situation - the t-square of Mercury/Moon/Pluto (in 5 of romance) shows that you are wary and rightly so.

Hope this helps and thanks again for posting this. This is the first time I have been able to look at a chart for someone who is incarcerated and I appreciate the opportunity.

Cheers.

moonwitch

There was this thread, granted you did say Saturn was not applicable to that specific chart: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=724317#post724317

But I swear there was a different one where I asked if one prisoner would reply to me, and I got warned by a bunch of people etc. (Only mentioning it because I remember, not a grudge) but I'm on my phone and couldn't find it. It has to be in the gen. Horary section or the relationship one but when I find it I'll add it here.

moonwitch said:

There is no aspect between your significators and you are not in each other's dignities which indicates that there is no real interest in marriage or any type of long term relationship. If he was sincere, you would expect that there would be an aspect and some form of reception into dignities.

......

The fact that your significators are in opposite houses needs to be taken into account, I believe, as it shows that you are really "not on the same page" and a relationship is probably not a good idea . His significator is retrograding back to the cusp of two, which, as someone pointed out could be relating to a financial issue but could also just relate to a need for support (resources relating to that which supports us emotionally as well).

I think that you understand instinctively that this is not an ideal situation - the t-square of Mercury/Moon/Pluto (in 5 of romance) shows that you are wary and rightly so.

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Hello Moonwitch,

Thank you for your input! Yes, you're correct. I know this is not an ideal situation or person cognitively, let alone on an instinctual level. This is someone I just reached out to in a sort of charitable way after meeting him with mutual friends. No, not on the same page in a lot of ways. I've definitely explicitly stated I am JUST a friend though.

Thanks again!

(There should be another thread within the last three or four pages about someone who was interested in having a child with someone incarcerated, just fyi!)