Ptolemy's Table of Essential Dignities

Arian Maverick

Well-known member
I wasn't quite sure where to put this thread, since Ptolemy's Table of Essential Dignities can be applied to nearly all branches of astrology to determine the essential dignity or debility a particular planet has.

This is meant to be a continuation of the discussion about dignity in the thread mars in scorpio in 9th house?; I feel that this is an important area of astrology that is sometimes neglected, perhaps due to the complexity of the chart.

I was overwhelmed by Ptolemy's Table of Essential Dignities, too, when I first looked at it, but with time it has become much easier to read. I feel the chart has greatly increased my understanding of astrological terms such as dignity, debility, exaltation, triplicity, term, face, detriment, fall, etc. and the relationships particular planets have with particular signs. I haven't gotten around to really studying horary yet, but I imagine that this chart is of even greater value to those interested in learning this branch of astrology.

I don't claim to be an expert, of course, but I think I have a pretty good understanding of how to read the chart and would like to help others who may be new to Ptolemy's Table or else have seen the chart but have been intimidated by using it. As I mentioned earlier, I was certainly intimidated at first!

The best way to start out would probably be to read the article Understanding Planetary Dignity and Debility, paying particular attention to the second page, which explains
How to read Ptolemy's table of Essential Dignities
.

Here is the chart, courtesy of Skyscript: Table of Essential Dignities.

Good luck! :)

dignities2.gif


Arian Maverick
 
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Arian Maverick

Well-known member
I've found the the trickiest thing to understand about this chart is the degree listed next to each planet in each of the five columns under The Terms of the Planets and the three columns under The Faces of the Planets. This particular degree refers to the point of transition between one planet ruling the term or face and another. There are two ways you can look at this--probably more, but these are the two that I've found to be most helpful:

1) Think the phrase any planet located at a degree less than (number) is in the (term or face) of (planet).

So, using the first column of The Terms of the Planets for the first row Aries, you will see the glyph for Jupiter next to the number six. Think to yourself any planet located at a degree less than 6 is in the term of Jupiter.

This works best for the first column because there is no earlier degree in that sign to contend with; it's not "in between" two rulers.

Things get a little trickier in the second column. Again, let's use The Terms of the Planets for the first row Aries as an example, where you will find the glyph for Venus next to the number fourteen. Think to yourself any planet located at a degree less than (or before) 13 but more than (or after) 7 is in the term of Jupiter.

I know it's a mouthful, but it may help you to speak things aloud until the concept sinks in and the cumbersome phrase is no longer necessary.

2) This is my personal favorite because it's shorter :p

Imagine a zero to the left of the first column under The Terms of the Planets or The Faces of the Planets. Mentally put a dash next to this zero.

Now shift all of the numbers one column over to the left.

So, using the first column (not the imaginary one) under The Terms of the Planets in the second row Taurus as an example, you will see the glyph for Venus next to the number eight.

Imagine a zero to the left of this column and mentally put a dash next to the zero, so you have 0-.

Now, slide the eight over to this column; you now have 0-8, which is the range of degrees within the term of Venus. Remember that once the planet is on that eighth degree, it in the next term or face.

To be more technical, we should probably say 0 degrees - 7 degree 59 minutes, 59 seconds...but I think you get the idea ;)

Arian Maverick
 

gaer

Well-known member
Arian Maverick said:
I've found the the trickiest thing to understand about this chart is the degree listed next to each planet in each of the five columns under The Terms of the Planets and the three columns under The Faces of the Planets.
I wanted to reply to this days ago.

If we start with this:

Aries: Jupiter 6 Venus 14 Mercury 21 Mars 26 Saturn 30

I read it this way:

0-5:59 for Jupiter in Aries
6-13:59 for Venus in Aries
14-20:59 for Mercury in Aries
21-25:59 for Mars in Aries
26-29:59 for Saturn in Aires

Is that the same thing you are doing?

I wish this was the biggest problem, but another member found two differences in the data printed in Christian Astrology, which supposedly is based on Ptolemy's data, and the chart that is on the Skyscript site. I'll mention those differences if you are interested.

I have bigger problems with the terms. I find them absolutely impossible to memorize. :(

Gaer
 

Arian Maverick

Well-known member
Is that the same thing you are doing?

Yes, pretty much. As always, I make things more complicated than they really are! :rolleyes:

I wish this was the biggest problem, but another member found two differences in the data printed in Christian Astrology, which supposedly is based on Ptolemy's data, and the chart that is on the Skyscript site. I'll mention those differences if you are interested.

Wow, I'm really surprised that someone hasn't informed Skyscript of the discrepancy--or perhaps they have, and the staff never changed the chart.

I'm very interested; this would be a great topic to discuss here.

I have bigger problems with the terms. I find them absolutely impossible to memorize.

Yes, I agree; at least with the faces, the numbers always remain the same and they are even divisions.

I'm trying to find a patten or some other memory trick to assist me with this; I thought I had one with the last terms because the signs in which Saturn is in either dignity and detriment were the ones that had Saturn as the ruler of the last term, but this doesn't seem to work for Mars at all because Saturn is in detriment in Aries and Mars is in dignity in Aries.

Here's an idea: perhaps you can try to group the signs together by modality and memorize the planet that "goes" with that modality for the last term of Saturn. There is always one exception to this general rule, but I imagine that it is much easier to remember the three exception than all twelve individually.

All of the cardinal signs except Libra are associated with Saturn.
All of the fixed signs except Scorpio are associated with Mars.
All of the mutable signs except Pisces are associated with Mars.

Or perhaps it is easier to group signs by element, because there seem to be less exceptions:

All of the fire signs are associated with Mars except Aries.
All of the earth signs are associated with Mars except Capricorn.
All of the air signs are associated with Mars.
All of the water signs are associated with Saturn.

Now, if only we could figure out a way to memorize the other four columns...

Arian Maverick
 
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gaer

Well-known member
charmvirgo said:
You could have read it this way:
Terms/Aries: Jupiter 0:01-6, Venus 6:01-14, Mercury 14:01-21 etc, and for the Faces 0:01-10, 10:01-20, 20:01-30.
It looks to me from the table that the planet is up to and including the degree next to it as it seems more logical to me, but in any case it will only be one minute of difference if either way was wrong.
According to Skyscript:

"The fifth column shows the degrees where rulership by term transfers. That is, Jupiter rules the first six degree of Aries, from 0°00' - 5°59'; Venus rules from 6°00' - 13°59 Aries."

As for one minute not being important, it depends upon whether or not you believe that the terms themselves and the thinking of Ptolomy and Lilly are important. :)
 

gaer

Well-known member
charmvirgo said:
Luckily my Kepler program works out the whole table for me.

I have a low overall score of +2 and most of the others in my family I have looked at also have a low overall figure, either + or -.

However, I was amazed when I looked at my sister's chart with a total score of +32.
I have not looked at that many charts, so I wonder is this unusually high?
Like me she has three (different) planets in their own sign, but unlike me this is not cancelled out by several minus figures, in fact she has NO minus figures at all.
Well, is she famous, very successful, enormously happy, etc.? :)
 
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