Mars in detriment?

WeCareALot

Well-known member
Frankly, I don't believe in "honest, hard work" and I certainly don't see the benefits of it. I keep saying to myself one of these days I'll win the lotto or some unknown relative kicks the bucket and leaves me their lot cuz I sure as heck am not interested in "working" my way up, down, sideways, or any way. Nope, the Taurus Mars you mention must got a bunch of whacked out stuff happening to it to want to be all that into work. Taurus by sign is the concerned with money/banking, cash, comforts, raw material goods. Sure, maybe "working hard" might make some money, but trying to bypass the system is probably more profitable in regards to other areas (such as having more time to relax).

AHHH! I'm SO glad you said this. (Sorry to hijack the thread by the way) I've always felt bad for trying to find ways around hard work, LOL. I think hard work might be important for personal standards, etc., etc. but success (monetary or otherwise) isn't all about working hard. As the saying goes, "You don't get what you deserve. You get what you negotiate."
 
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may28gemini

AHHH! I'm SO glad you said this. (Sorry to hijack the thread by the way) I've always felt bad for trying to find ways around hard work, LOL. I think hard work might be important for personal standards, etc., etc. but success (monetary or otherwise) isn't all about working hard. As the saying goes, "You don't get what you deserve. You get what you negotiate."

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Are you sure you're not really a Libra?

Oh trust me, I hijack pretty every thread and I bore people with my longwinded stories, so you're in the clear :lol::lol:

Why feel bad about not wanting to work hard? Work is the necessary evil as they say, "The devil makes use of idle hands" :devil::devil::devil:

But frankly, I don't speak for all Taurus Mars as my Mars doesn't even act like it. My father has Libra Mars and he's all into handwork, but that's because his Mars is in the 6th house...Mars' joy so that gives his Mars an "outlet" to work (6th house) very hard (as in goal/purpose). Libra Mars (detriment) trine Gemini Jupiter (detriment)= believes in hard work as a necessity.

See, Mars must be employed by a "higher" planet to fulfill a greater service. Although Mars is the Lesser Malefic, Mars is of a "major" planet which means he has the ability to actively modify other planets. Other major planets are Jupiter and Saturn. If Mars is NOT in the service of a greater planet such as Sun which is the centre planet/Jupiter/Saturn, he's going to be running amuck modifying the lesser planets of Moon/Merc/Venus and that's very dicey.

My Mars is essentially debilitated being that it's in Taurus but he serves Saturn who is not only of greater standing, but wields the most power in my chart. Mars also is in the service of Jupiter...only for Jupiter to be controlled by Saturn anyway so Mars doubly serves Saturn. Either way, my Mars has much purpose and even though he sextile my Pisces Moon (exact), he doesn't really destroy the Moon's ability to be herself. If anything Mars encourages her to be herself and be a drama queen:lol::lol:
 
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WeCareALot

Well-known member
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Are you sure you're not really a Libra?

Oh trust me, I hijack pretty every thread and I bore people with my longwinded stories, so you're in the clear :lol::lol:

Why feel bad about not wanting to work hard? Work is the necessary evil as they say, "The devil makes use of idle hands" :devil::devil::devil:

But frankly, I don't speak for all Taurus Mars as my Mars doesn't even act like it. My father has Libra Mars and he's all into handwork, but that's because his Mars is in the 6th house...Mars' joy so that gives his Mars an "outlet" to work (6th house) very hard (as in goal/purpose). Libra Mars (detriment) trine Gemini Jupiter (detriment)= believes in hard work as a necessity.

See, Mars must be employed by a "higher" planet to fulfill a greater service. Although Mars is the Lesser Malefic, Mars is of a "major" planet which means he has the ability to actively modify other planets. Other major planets are Jupiter and Saturn. If Mars is NOT in the service of a greater planet such as Sun which is the centre planet/Jupiter/Saturn, he's going to be running amuck modifying the lesser planets of Moon/Merc/Venus and that's very dicey.

My Mars is essentially debilitated being that it's in Taurus but he serves Saturn who is not only of greater standing, but wields the most power in my chart. Mars also is in the service of Jupiter...only for Jupiter to be controlled by Saturn anyway so Mars doubly serves Saturn. Either way, my Mars has much purpose and even though he sextile my Pisces Moon (exact), he doesn't really destroy the Moon's ability to be herself. If anything Mars encourages her to be herself and be a drama queen:lol::lol:

LOL. That's the main thing I like about Libra energy: the slick, strategic war general/negotiator side.

I mean, there are definitely times when hard work has made me feel good about myself. I don't think I would be as happy with millions of dollars that I got through the lottery rather than money I make through working. But in general, it seems like people have a simplistic view of what "hard work" actually means. So many of my peers think that if only they put their nose to the grindstone and work hard day in and day out, they'll get what they want. Their definition of hard work is more along the lines of "productivity." But it seems like getting what you want is also about establishing the right connections, having the right strategy for your goal, knowing when to get other people to do the work for you vs doing it yourself, knowing when to wait and NOT act, etc. etc.. There's more to it than just long hours and having a lot of output.

I struggled with this myself because Aries side just wants to go, go, GO but then Libra's like, "Why don't you chill and think this through" LOL.

So yeah, I would definitely characterize the Gemini's "scammy" energy as hard work! It's hard at work at strategizing its way to what it wants!!:tongue:
 
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may28gemini

Ahhhh... very few people can appreciate Libra rising's slick maneuvers :lol::lol:

Hard work can give a person a strong sense of self-purpose and even self-worth, but I was speaking in terms solely of profitability. In the case of detriment Taurus Mars, working hard to make money is not a foreign concept but trying to find ways to maximize profit (which means it could cut into the working hard part) is like our goal. Taurus Mars suffers from tunnel vision, and if it's anything we focus on, it's the $$$$$. How money gets achieved, that's another thing. We're not exactly a "law abiding" sort of Mars, since Taurus is in exile and anti-Mars anyway (Mars is physical enforcement authority like police and military) so making money by "any means necessary" might be a more suitable trait to give to Taurus Mars than to say we're all into hard work. YUCK. Who the heck wants to work hard and not maximize their profit gains. Must be an idiot. We're lazy but we're not stupid when it comes to $$$$$$. Profit is #1 to us.

Many times I've said to people that if it weren't for my honesty, I'd be laundering money for the mob or something cuz being a pencil pusher or doing something "stable" and respectable just isn't all that interesting to me at all. I'm into excitement and dynamic shifts. I hate mundane cr@p.
 

WeCareALot

Well-known member
Hard work can give a person a strong sense of self-purpose and even self-worth, but I was speaking in terms solely of profitability. In the case of detriment Taurus Mars, working hard to make money is not a foreign concept but trying to find ways to maximize profit (which means it could cut into the working hard part) is like our goal. Taurus Mars suffers from tunnel vision, and if it's anything we focus on, it's the $$$$$. How money gets achieved, that's another thing. We're not exactly a "law abiding" sort of Mars, since Taurus is in exile and anti-Mars anyway (Mars is physical enforcement authority like police and military) so making money by "any means necessary" might be a more suitable trait to give to Taurus Mars than to say we're all into hard work. YUCK. Who the heck wants to work hard and not maximize their profit gains. Must be an idiot. We're lazy but we're not stupid when it comes to $$$$$$. Profit is #1 to us.

I think this is an incredibly smart way to think!! Billionaires don't become billionaires by working 168 hours a week. They work hard, yes, but they work in a productive/efficient way that maximizes money per unit of work "effort" or output. That kind of tunnel vision and personal philosophy ("by any means necessary") is a gold mine, in my opinion.

Many times I've said to people that if it weren't for my honesty, I'd be laundering money for the mob or something cuz being a pencil pusher or doing something "stable" and respectable just isn't all that interesting to me at all. I'm into excitement and dynamic shifts. I hate mundane cr@p.

Haha, and yeah, that's the kicker: you'd have to be careful with doing illegal things that could end up reversing any work you put in, LOL. I don't have the experience to know for sure, but I think that hitting the financial jackpot requires a lot of mundane/boring work at the start and then probably levels out to less drudgery later. The overall work doesn't end, but I'm sure there's a difference between the work that Oprah/Steve Jobs/Warren Buffett did when they become billionaires vs. what they HAD to do when they were young and broke. They seem(ed) like the type of people to enjoy working, but if they wanted to they could easily call it quits and live the high life until they die! (In Jobs' case, it's a little too late for that...) It's always the beginning and middle of the career/money journey that *****.
 
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may28gemini

I think this is an incredibly smart way to think!! Billionaires don't become billionaires by working 168 hours a week. They work hard, yes, but they work in a productive/efficient way that maximizes money per unit of work "effort" or output. That kind of tunnel vision and personal philosophy ("by any means necessary") is a gold mine, in my opinion.
A lot of this taps into capitalism and how truly beautiful and magnificent of a concept it is...perhaps the most noble that has come from the human brain. Yes! The concept is probably a gold mine! But to me, it's just common sense. To create wealth is to create a (smart) value that the majority of people would need or want to buy. Like velcro and rubber. Or like Apple laptops. I'm typing on one right now :lol: Or indoor plumbing (pipe fitters make a ton of money so do plumbers). Recently as in the past 5 years, we've been inundated with virtual apps for our smartphones and computers. Facebook and Instagram are 2 huge examples of "smart" values that makes a lot of money because people "buy" something from it. Look at all the game apps for your phone. I don't know what phone you have, but I have the Samsung Note 2. I beelined to be the 1st person at the store I went to on release day to get it. Most people didn't know what it was... but I did and a few dudes :lol: It makes playing adventure games really fun and the graphics are also really great for watching videos.

That's the point really... you learn to work hard on what you think will maximize your gain and in order to do that, you must have an eye on something that others haven't thought of (originality) but will find great usefulness in. In the end, it's win-win. Think back to my Note 2 example: when it first came out, no one knew what the heck it was or worse, why it was so dang big in size. Reviewers complained that it's too big and weird, and ridiculous to use as a phone and it was scheduled to flop. However, the phone actually was the sort of thing that attracts some unusual people (kinda like me) who like trying new things, but once it was launched, there were nothing but raves, everyone had to get one and all the phone carriers ran out.

Haha, and yeah, that's the kicker: you'd have to be careful with doing illegal things that could end up reversing any work you put in, LOL. I don't have the experience to know for sure, but I think that hitting the financial jackpot requires a lot of mundane/boring work at the start and then probably levels out to less drudgery later. The overall work doesn't end, but I'm sure there's a difference between the work that Oprah/Steve Jobs/Warren Buffett did when they become billionaires vs. what they HAD to do when they were young and broke. They seem(ed) like the type of people to enjoy working, but if they wanted to they could easily call it quits and live the high life until they die! (In Jobs' case, it's a little too late for that...) It's always the beginning and middle of the career/money journey that *****.

HAHAHAHAHA of course, but the way the government regulates everything, esp. businesses, to death, I wouldn't be surprised that doing something that seems legal and probably was even considered legal before is now branded "illegal." That's the catch with Taurus, and even Scorpio Mars- the fixed mode and the fact that they're signs that represent $$$$$. Both are scammy in their own ways...not outwardly scammy (like Gemini), but not lawful. To outward appearances both might seem really legit, but who knows what lurks underneath. All my Scorpio Mars friends share with me stories of money stuff they've gotten away with and it cracks me up but on the surface, they're pretty squeaky clean. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: They've even taken me out to dinner to celebrate!

I know a handful of lawyers...all Gemini Mars (not ironic). They don't fully disclose the details of some scammy lawsuits, but they've admitted that they made a lot of money because of loopholes/tactics. One that I know of specializes in legacy/wills/land property and he found some way to block his client's stepmother from getting more money :lol::lol::lol::lol: I know who I'll be hiring if my dad dies and the evil fat Virgo he's married to hogs everything!!
 
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WeCareALot

Well-known member
A lot of this taps into capitalism and how truly beautiful and magnificent of a concept it is...perhaps the most noble that has come from the human brain. Yes! The concept is probably a gold mine! But to me, it's just common sense. To create wealth is to create a (smart) value that the majority of people would need or want to buy. Like velcro and rubber. Or like Apple laptops. I'm typing on one right now :lol: Or indoor plumbing (pipe fitters make a ton of money so do plumbers). Recently as in the past 5 years, we've been inundated with virtual apps for our smartphones and computers. Facebook and Instagram are 2 huge examples of "smart" values that makes a lot of money because people "buy" something from it. Look at all the game apps for your phone. I don't know what phone you have, but I have the Samsung Note 2. I beelined to be the 1st person at the store I went to on release day to get it. Most people didn't know what it was... but I did and a few dudes :lol: It makes playing adventure games really fun and the graphics are also really great for watching videos.

That's the point really... you learn to work hard on what you think will maximize your gain and in order to do that, you must have an eye on something that others haven't thought of (originality) but will find great usefulness in. In the end, it's win-win. Think back to my Note 2 example: when it first came out, no one knew what the heck it was or worse, why it was so dang big in size. Reviewers complained that it's too big and weird, and ridiculous to use as a phone and it was scheduled to flop. However, the phone actually was the sort of thing that attracts some unusual people (kinda like me) who like trying new things, but once it was launched, there were nothing but raves, everyone had to get one and all the phone carriers ran out.

Yep! I live in Silicon Valley so I'm surrounded by people trying to hit it big with the next big start-up. It's kind of inspiring and makes me want to try and never work for others again. But unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), my heart is set on film/LA. I wish I enjoyed doing something more "straightforward" than arts--like technology. But I have a hard time as it is dealing with things that bore the cr@p out of me, LOL. I gotta be honest and stick with the stuff I know I like.

With that sad--Oy! All it takes is a good idea and the will to make it happen. I encourage everyone to find a business idea they can sink their teeth into and make it happen! At the worst, it'll be a few years of extremely long hours and hard work but you just might hit the jackpot. Most of the rich people that run these companies don't even build anything--they just lead the company. I remember you mentioning in an older post that you usually get picked for leadership roles whenever you're in a group or organization of some kind. That's not surprising--you sound like you're well suited for business actually. It might be something to consider!


HAHAHAHAHA of course, but the way the government regulates everything, esp. businesses, to death, I wouldn't be surprised that doing something that seems legal and probably was even considered legal before is now branded "illegal." That's the catch with Taurus, and even Scorpio Mars- the fixed mode and the fact that they're signs that represent $$$$$. Both are scammy in their own ways...not outwardly scammy (like Gemini), but not lawful. To outward appearances both might seem really legit, but who knows what lurks underneath. All my Scorpio Mars friends share with me stories of money stuff they've gotten away with and it cracks me up but on the surface, they're pretty squeaky clean. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: They've even taken me out to dinner to celebrate!

I know a handful of lawyers...all Gemini Mars (not ironic). They don't fully disclose the details of some scammy lawsuits, but they've admitted that they made a lot of money because of loopholes/tactics. One that I know of specializes in legacy/wills/land property and he found some way to block his client's stepmother from getting more money :lol::lol::lol::lol: I know who I'll be hiring if my dad dies and the evil fat Virgo he's married to hogs everything!!

LOL. I need to make friends with some lawyers then. Don't get rid of that connection!
 
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may28gemini

Yep! I live in Silicon Valley so I'm surrounded by people trying to hit it big with the next big start-up. It's kind of inspiring and makes me want to try and never work for others again. But unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), my heart is set on film/LA. I wish I enjoyed doing something more "straightforward" than arts--like technology. But I have a hard time as it is dealing with things that bore the cr@p out of me, LOL. I gotta be honest and stick with the stuff I know I like.

I lived in San Francisco for 5.5 years actually... DARK AGES to me!!! But I know exactly what you're talking about with hitting it big with startups and hoping it'll reach Google or Facebook status. That's the great dream of capitalism isn't it? To start small (less input) and maybe explode to stardom (big output)!! Unfortunately, the Bay Area (and I have a billion unflattering nicknames for that area), specifically SF, are very anti-capitalist and not business friendly at all. It's suffocating there. Yet, the techies are all making a ton of money but they are nothing but young, ignorant fools with soooo much "influence and power," but no class, no perspective, no style, nothing to offer the world. They are void of anything meaningful but push the status quo. Anyway, I won't get any further into the hypocrisy that is the Bay Area and SF. I hate that place and I've been hoping and praying that it would burn to ground!!

Try to roam down to LA and make something interesting of yourself, you might do really well being that you're an Aries and LA is supposed to be extremely Aries (according to the incorporation chart) and I've met a lot of Aries people here who do quite well for themselves. It is like a completely different country and at one point, LA was a such a financial powerhouse that the city itself made enough money to carry the rest of the country. Those days have been long gone, thanks to a lot of destructive, anti-capitalist legislation passed militantly by the government. Thanks to the nasty local socialist government, the previous mayor really destroyed LA by allowing illegal immigration run rampant to where we were only importing burdens on the system, and not encouraging brilliant locals to make their mark. Silencing brilliance and keeping it held back along with the stupid and slow is not only MORALLY WRONG, but it's a total crime. Life's Darwinian. The strong should always be on top. Now it's topsy turvy. I miss the LA I grew up in. I wished it was the strong, unapologetic powerhouse it once was. Now it's totally destroyed 10000x over.

You decide to go on your own and figure it out for yourself. But just be aware of the climate in CA and how suffocating and difficult it is to make a decent living and LA was the last place to be and now it's shattered. Film is not what it once was and the big broadcasting networks have some of the most suffocating ideologically retarded people. I've interviewed with some of them. I've seen how they are now. LA is sadly not the free wild, wild West it once was.


With that sad--Oy! All it takes is a good idea and the will to make it happen. I encourage everyone to find a business idea they can sink their teeth into and make it happen! At the worst, it'll be a few years of extremely long hours and hard work but you just might hit the jackpot. Most of the rich people that run these companies don't even build anything--they just lead the company. I remember you mentioning in an older post that you usually get picked for leadership roles whenever you're in a group or organization of some kind. That's not surprising--you sound like you're well suited for business actually. It might be something to consider!

That's the great beauty of capitalism- the ability to make or break yourself :lol::lol::lol: If you can go up in relatively short time, you can also go down in relatively little time as well. Does it require long hours and hard work? Yes, and it's a big, personal gamble, too. The backers of these now huge companies are the necessary glue that helps fortify those with genius ideas make their mark and move the culture. Without the investors taking a risk and throwing their money in to see something new and brilliant start but it could also potentially flop- that's a big thing. The reward on somethings may outweigh the risk, but there's big risks all over, for everyone. Investors aren't thinking solely of greed. They see great value...value that needs to capitalized. We do live in a very materialistic world and we need to keep ourselves grounded on the material plane.

Speaking of risks, I would totally go into business for myself. I actually was going to partner up with an Aqua friend to start up a little advertising firm together. However, the reality of the cost of having a start-up and all the governmental regulations are set up to discourage businesses from starting and succeeding. Much more people under the current administration closed up shop because of the anti-business, anti- capitalist ideologies and actions from government. Simply put, businesses aren't growing or popping up because people are dreadfully afraid of having their money taxed/taken away and all the hoops they'd have to hop through all to be in debt. If I was an adult in the 80s (instead of being born in the 80s), I would have run amuck making $$$$. I'd probably join the ranks of scammy Jordan Belfort :lol::lol::lol: and then run off to live in little houseboat in the French Rivera. Hmmm... I would have been born with Aqua if I was of similar age to JB.

Most people just don't understand that the reason why there's scammy businesses is simply because that's the reaction to over regulation and it's also rooted in human nature. When people are on the honor system, there's a higher likelihood of honor being exchanged at face value. When "honor" is regulated and dictated and branded, and then heavily taxed, honor is no longer fulfilled but it has become a part of legislation, which is worth less than the paper it's printed on.
 
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wilsontc

Staff member
Back to astrology

All,

Please get back to astrology and the astrological point of this thread. The OP's question is "Whats your experience, with Mars in Taurus (detriment)?" Any further off-topic discussion will be moved to the "Chat" section of the Forum.

Back on subject,

Tim
 
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may28gemini

Well, apparently Taurus Mars is a good placement for artistry, esp. singing and dancing since Taurus rules the throat and pharynx and Earth Venus is into sensual movements. The prima donna of such an example would be Madonna with her accidentally dignified Mars in the 4th house.

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poyi

Premium Member
Any planet in detrimental, has the ability and knowledge to be great like the planet in rulership, but requiring external support due to lack of natural resources, and it will achieve great height when it seeks alternative expression of the planet in rulership according to Brady which she had used many examples to justify such claim. Detriment is simply the opposition face of the Norm, Planet in Rulership being at it own castle and kingdom, while Detriment can be seen as the alternative King must work hard to achieve a different interpretation of kingship.

While Fall is no matter how hard you tried you have no natural talent, no natural resources, and no one will help you, solely fighting to get to the bare normal but then great of falling deep into, again alternative lowest form of expression. Otherwise you will have no guarantee on achieving anything if you are staying and seeking Normal standard of Status. Exaltation however, they have guarantee on achieving greatness but must work very hard for it to stay in that status to fit the criteria of being Lifted and continue it life long journey of Breakthrough New Height.
 
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may28gemini

Any planet in detrimental, has the ability and knowledge to be great like the planet in rulership, but requiring external support due to lack of natural resources, and it will achieve great height when it seeks alternative expression of the planet in rulership according to Brady which she had used many examples to justify such claim. Detriment is simply the opposition face of the Norm, Planet in Rulership being at it own castle and kingdom, while Detriment can be seen as the alternative King must work hard to achieve a different interpretation of kingship.
Detriment is a planet "in exile" which means that they must seek other resources to assist them and such "resource" would be provided by planet in greater standing such as Jupiter and/or Saturn. I gave the example of my detriment Taurus Mars trine exalted Libra Saturn. I also have Mars trine Libra Jupiter. The trines from both Jupiter and Saturn throws a life line to my exiled Mars, but as it stands, any planets in exile cannot come back to its homeland but must make do with its new home. But I talked about this extensively in my previous posts in this thread.

I do believe detriment planets that are not Jupiter and Saturn can be trained to work and master other areas. I don't think Jupiter and Saturn in detriment can get any help as they are major planets and have the power to modify other planets and if they are debilitated/corrupted capacity, they have the power to malify other planets rather than helping them. Sun is also a major planet and has the power to modify other planets...such as combust, sunbeam, etc. I think that when the Sun is in detriment, the Sun serves to be a malefic planet in the chart and as such, Sun cannot be given help unless Mars, Saturn, Jupiter has some dignity that can make up for the Sun's corruption.

While Fall is no matter how hard you tried you have no natural talent, no natural resources, and no one will help you, solely fighting to get to the bare normal but then great of falling deep into, again alternative lowest form of expression. Otherwise you will have no guarantee on achieving anything if you are staying and seeking Normal standard of Status. Exaltation however, they have guarantee on achieving greatness but must work very hard for it to stay in that status to fit the criteria of being Lifted and continue it life long journey of Breakthrough New Height.
I think that although detriment planets are by status "corrupted," and detriment planets are just that- departure from what is in pure form (as the definition), however, there still stands opportunities to train that planet (with the exception of Jupiter and Saturn and some instances pertaining to Sun) to iron out some rough patches. When planets are in detriment, there's a conscious awareness of lacking and as such, could be trained to go on overdrive/overcompensate and then surpass expectations. There is no way to totally eradicate the corruption, and as such, cannot ever come back from being "in exile." They must make a new home elsewhere.

Fallen planets seem to be the flatline of the planet where there's absolutely NO redeeming qualities and there are no allies to assist. It's as if those planets are totally abandoned and left squarely with nothing to depend on but their own devices (which is dangerous and can be uncontrollable for the native and other people). Fallen would be like "fallen from grace" as in there's total excommunication. At least when in exile (detriment) that there's the ability to serve another King/purpose, but the fallen are totally lost and can never find its way back no matter how it tries, that planet is barred.
 

WeCareALot

Well-known member
Fallen planets seem to be the flatline of the planet where there's absolutely NO redeeming qualities and there are no allies to assist. It's as if those planets are totally abandoned and left squarely with nothing to depend on but their own devices (which is dangerous and can be uncontrollable for the native and other people). Fallen would be like "fallen from grace" as in there's total excommunication. At least when in exile (detriment) that there's the ability to serve another King/purpose, but the fallen are totally lost and can never find its way back no matter how it tries, that planet is barred.

:andy: I've got Merc in Pisces and Venus in Aries...

Also, I was thinking about this recently: since detriment Mars in Taurus has a reputation for being slow and plodding, do you think that having a lot of squares in one's chart can add a sort of cardinal quality to the person that might offset Mars' problem? I'm asking specifically because of Madonna's chart (whom I love as an entertainer, by the way). I was surprised to learn that she has Mars in Taurus because she's known for having a lot of get-up-and-go and has admitted that she's more of a let's-move-on-now kind of person. But I wonder if that's due to the preponderance of squares in her chart; she's got a lot! And she's got a lot of dynamic ones--for example, Sun square Mars and Mars square Uranus. Do you think her squares can act as a bolster to her 'slow' Mars in Taurus?
 
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may28gemini

:andy: I've got Merc in Pisces and Venus in Aries...

Also, I was thinking about this recently: since detriment Mars in Taurus has a reputation for being slow and plodding, do you think that having a lot of squares in one's chart can add a sort of cardinal quality to the person that might offset Mars' problem? I'm asking specifically because of Madonna's chart (whom I love as an entertainer, by the way). I was surprised to learn that she has Mars in Taurus because she's known for having a lot of get-up-and-go and has admitted that she's more of a let's-move-on-now kind of person. But I wonder if that's due to the preponderance of squares in her chart; she's got a lot! And she's got a lot of dynamic ones--for example, Sun square Mars and Mars square Uranus. Do you think her squares can act as a bolster to her 'slow' Mars in Taurus?

Keep in mind, I was talking about how the Major planets (Sun/Mars/Saturn/Jupiter) have power to modify all the Dependent planets (Moon/Mercury/Venus) and if the Major planets are in exile (or worst, fallen) there's very few redeeming possibilities. I mentioned briefly that if the Sun is detriment or fallen but if the other Major planets are able to assist, it can "lessen" the damages that the Sun causes. It's a general concept.


Pisces Mercury.... now that's a real problem. Mercury is the only planet out of all of the planets (and I'm NOT including the outer planets because they're modern and generational anyway) that is gender "neutral," meaning that it neither exists as masculine or feminine and can take on either gender depending upon the native's chart. With the exception of the luminaries, all the other planets rules 2 signs and Mercury rules Gemini (Air) and Virgo (Earth). Because Mercury rules those 2 signs, Gemini and Virgo are automatically Mercury's domiciles. However, I've maintained that originally, Mercury is the only planet that does not have an exaltation and therefore, cannot have a fall. At some point, probably Ptolemy, whom I think is wrong on many levels, assigned Virgo as Mercury's exaltation. The reason why I SO VERY STRONGLY OBJECT to that squirrelly assignment is because
1. Mercury in Virgo is already a domicile and NO other planet has a domicile serve as its exaltation either. Ridiculous.
2. The element of mutable Earth is still extremely slow...much slower than even Fixed Air (Aquarius) and Fixed Air, has no dignity in Mercury. So why would Mercury, a mutable planet, heralded as being the fastest planet, really "exalt" in a rather slow sign? Makes no sense whatsoever.
3. To accept that Virgo is both domicile and exaltation in Mercury is to say that it's an infallible Mercury and would therefore be stronger than Mercury's other domicile of Gemini. Gemini is the fastest sign as Mutable Air- you can't get any faster than that. Virgo is the fastest of the Earth signs, but elementally, Earth is the slowest element and Mutable Earth is the weakest of the Earth signs. Why would the weakest sign of the slowest element be exalted in the fastest planet?

If there is acceptance of Virgo as both domicile and exaltation in Mercury, that is also to say that Pisces Mercury is both in exile and depressed. I reject this notion, as there's no such Mercury that is not "repairable." I maintain that Pisces Mercury (and Sagittarius Mercury) to be only in exile and they must make do with their foreign landscape.

No one has ever been able to answer my questions which shows to me that there is very little reasoning to even support Virgo Mercury as exaltation, which therefore, cancels out Pisces Mercury's fallen status.


Your Pisces Mercury is in exile and as for Aries Venus, she's also exiled. You've also got Gemini Jupiter, he's in exile, too. The major planets in your chart that can "counter" the detriments is Sun, of which you have in exaltation, domiciled Saturn which can give structural support, and Mars which is squirrelly but is NOT of any debility. You have 2 minor planets in debility, which could be lessened if the major planets you have offer assistance and modify the exile status to be a bit less uncomfortable... As for Jupiter being in detriment, you have to fall back on domiciled Saturn. That may not be of comfort, but Saturn's rewards are longer lasting and stronger than Jupiter's... but Saturn's rewards requires a lot of time.


So the Material Girl has Taurus Mars... what's so shocking about it? She likes couture and fabulous luxurious things. Madonna's Mars is accidentally dignified in an angular house which means her Mars totally does initiate action and because it's in Taurus, it is concerned with artistry and $$$$. Her Saturn is the most elevated planet in her chart being close to the MC which only makes sense as she's worked very long and hard in the business and continues to stay on top of her (fun) profession (since Saturn is in Sagittarius). Her Mars is in Mercury's terms and her Mercury is domiciled in Virgo. Mars is in the face of the Moon and her Moon is in Virgo. Virgo Moon is friends to both domiciled Moon (Cancer) and exalted Moon (Taurus). Just from from all that, you can tell a person with her chart has a very clear and clever concept of how to achieve their desires.

The Queen of Pop should only fittingly have Taurus Mars as the King of Pop, Michael Jackson, also had Taurus Mars. As a matter of fact, they were born less than a month apart. Oh, and Belinda Carlisle (of the Go-Gos) was born a day after Madonna and they both have the same rising/chart set up but different Moon signs. They all have Taurus Mars and they were all go-go-go personalities. They did not have the same aspects to their Mars but all achieved extremely high levels of success in their profession.

As for what I think about Madonna's squares... not much, no more than what I think of squares in general. Square energy produces internal dissatisfaction with oneself and it's up to the native to either take action and do something about that dissatisfaction or let it hinder them. But there's no way to know exactly if a person will take it upon them to correct stuff about themselves that they wish to change or they let all that dissatisfaction overwhelm them.

By aspects, I have Taurus Mars opposite Scorpio Uranus, trine Libra Jupiter and Saturn, and sextile Moon. Although I don't have much internal dissatisfaction (possibly none) as far as Mars energy go, I'm still high energy. My Mars is in Mars' term, which means my Mars functions similarly to Mars in rulership. I do get into crazy antics and I do stuff just to do them... which is not "normal" for standard Taurus Mars. My Mars is in the face of Saturn, by which my Saturn is exalted and trines Mars. Mars in the face of Saturn actually modifies and fine tunes Mars energy into something a bit more "refined" so I'm actually quite good at doing what I do... for better or worse.

Taurus Mars is only "slow" in the sense of taking action just for the sake of taking action. To us, we think that's wasteful and we would rather just sit and wait for something else to come along before we get so worked up over what could very well be nothing- and that's precisely the reason why Taurus Mars "in exile" because it goes counters to Mars' natural choleric temperament of action just for action's sake (with no goal or thought in mind). The point is, there needs to be a REASON to act. All other levels of Taurus Mars can actually rival Scorpio Mars (Mars' other rulership). Taurus-Scorpio are the $$$ signs, remember? They're concerned with profit and getting ahead. Taurus Mars needs to know that their action will be part of a profitable investment (whereas Scorpio translates profit into power and control). Once decisions have been made, we operate on tunnel vision mode and go with it until we've blown it to smithereens.
 

Blacknight

Well-known member
Fallen planets seem to be the flatline of the planet where there's absolutely NO redeeming qualities and there are no allies to assist. It's as if those planets are totally abandoned and left squarely with nothing to depend on but their own devices (which is dangerous and can be uncontrollable for the native and other people). Fallen would be like "fallen from grace" as in there's total excommunication. At least when in exile (detriment) that there's the ability to serve another King/purpose, but the fallen are totally lost and can never find its way back no matter how it tries, that planet is barred.

That is a very interesting assessment. What would you make of mars in its fall (cancer) conjunct the midheaven in the 10th house? You say a planet in its fall is left to its own devices. Could that mean having an independent career where I don't depend on others as an example? Or my career would simply have strange turns and not generally be supported from the outside? I'm really curious about that. It makes no major aspects except for an opposition to Uranus within 3 degrees. And if a fallen planet can't redeem itself through support like you say then the preceding rulers of the signs (such as cancer) shouldn't impact the fallen planet; is that a correct assessment??
 

poyi

Premium Member
The potential of Virgo being seen as the exaltation of mercury could be in the sign of Virgo mercury is able to apply intelligence and knowledge, information in practical and down to earth hard working physical level that Gemini is lacking which of course Aquarius is also lack of flexibility. Virgo is still curious and willing to learn but particularly willing to apply in physical and in the level for others. The ability on organisation and attention to detail to analyze, to syntheze, to disregard, to group, to gather and to express with perfectionist obsession in same extreme cases. The willingness on perfecting self knowledge/quality is a very good quality of Virgo which Gemini in air not necessarily be able to carry this hard workin task in stable manner like earth and of course an emotional intuition oriented sign such as water won't be the choice while fire is not cool headed enough to focus and apply in practical level as I think fire they do best on inspiring but not the actual person who delivery the reality.

As a Virgo ascendant with Virgo Mars sextile Merury in Scorpio and Moon in Capricorn I see the best expression of intellegience and knowledge/skills is through the ability of application in reality to transfer intellectual energies and ability into practical life to truely use such to benefit others and self; at the same time the endless drive wanting to perfect self and constantly correcting errors and archive higher level of both intellectual/practical dimensions. Very much a sign juging self intellectually and being it own harshest teacher.
 
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may28gemini

That is a very interesting assessment. What would you make of mars in its fall (cancer) conjunct the midheaven in the 10th house? You say a planet in its fall is left to its own devices. Could that mean having an independent career where I don't depend on others as an example? Or my career would simply have strange turns and not generally be supported from the outside? I'm really curious about that. It makes no major aspects except for an opposition to Uranus within 3 degrees. And if a fallen planet can't redeem itself through support like you say then the preceding rulers of the signs (such as cancer) shouldn't impact the fallen planet; is that a correct assessment??

I was generally speaking about how traditionally detriment and fallen planets were described. Did you read in my previous post about Major and Dependent planets work? That might help you piece things better.

In your particular case, if you really do have Mars in the 10th house, which is an angular house, your Mars would be accidentally dignified. Planets from Sun to Saturn are accidentally dignified if they are in an angular house which gives strength to that planet, even if in detriment or fallen. That doesn't mean that anything is lifted, it just means you're able to access that planetary energy much more easily. The 10th house is Mars' diurnal home (3rd house is his nocturnal home) and if your Mars is in the 10th house, Mars is at home in suitable house where he can be himself, however, since he's in his sign of fall- he's actually least likely his true self.

I suppose the best analogy I can come up at the moment to describe your particular scenario is that Mars finally came home from a big battle and realized he lost everything and he's not his old soldierly self. Because he's lost everything, he's changed and he feels completely out of his own element (astrologically and metaphorically) and ponders what to take up next. Being that he's in his house, he can safely plan what to do next, but he knows he cannot fight again. Does that make any sense?

As for the career thing... having Mars conjunct MC means that Mars is your most elevated planet and most public. For better or worse, it is very easy for others to recognize (or demonize) whatever work/creation your Mars puts out. As a general thing, if you have Mars in the 10th house, that's the mark of someone who's the master of their own destiny...they must make their own way and it's sink or swim. They tend to be people who take charge for functional purposes and tend to work better solo or in positions of command. Being that it's Cancer Mars I would surmise having to do with land/houses/wills/estates/legacy/money, something of that nature. Even though your Mars is fallen and has no assistance from other planets, the very essence of it being placed in an angular house is the saving grace. Your Mars doesn't have a master to serve so it's actually a rogue Mars (which is dangerous, as I said in a previous post), but since Mars is in one of his homes, he actually has some sense of purpose- and that purpose is to recover his losses by independently taking up something else.
 
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may28gemini

The potential of Virgo being seen as the exaltation of mercury could be in the sign of Virgo mercury is able to apply intelligence and knowledge, information in practical and down to earth hard working physical level that Gemini is lacking which of course Aquarius is also lack of flexibility. Virgo is still curious and willing to learn but particularly willing to apply in physical and in the level for others. The ability on organisation and attention to detail to analyze, to syntheze, to disregard, to group, to gather and to express with perfectionist obsession in same extreme cases. The willingness on perfecting self knowledge/quality is a very good quality of Virgo which Gemini in air not necessarily be able to carry this hard working task in stable manner like earth and of course an emotional intuition oriented sign such as water won't be the choice while fire is not cool headed enough to focus and apply in practical level as I think fire they do best on inspiring but not the actual person who delivery the reality
Well, this thread is about Taurus Mars but since there's a side thing about Mercury that's been brought on by a Pisces Mercury (I'm pointing the virtual finger at you WCAL) LOL I have to answer this.

Actually, Virgo Mercury is masterful at analyzing information and base knowledge on numerical structures, whereas, Gemini Mercury is masterful at synthesizing information based upon word structures, i.e., language. Gemini Mercury may not seem to be naturally organized through the world's lenses unlike Virgo Mercury has that characteristic naturally built-in, but Gemini Mercury's "structural" thought organization makes sense to them and they build ideas and concepts along the way through the progression of language. Mutable Air has no boundaries and goes everywhere. Virgo Mercury does not express originality but rather, technical clarity. Mutable Earth adapts what is necessary but is still rigid and contained because it's Earth. As it stands, "deep" thinking or analysis has nothing to do with rapid thinking :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

It is true that the world can better understand Virgo Mercury than it can understand Gemini Mercury. However, Gemini Mercury is not barred from acquiring organizational skills and can just as easily be detailed oriented, but that's not the goal. The deficit of Virgo Mercury is the lack of flexibility afforded to Gemini Mercury that can absorb information via osmosis...in the Air, so to speak, which is why Gemini Mercury has vast knowledge and Virgo Mercury is very particular and focuses on a much shorter range. Still, Virgo Mercury is not concerned about information for its own sake, nor is it interested in innovation or creative concepts, it is only concerned with totally digesting information. The selling point of Gemini Mercury is versatility, whereas, Virgo Mercury's claim to fame is critical clearness. Gemini Mercury can achieve critical clearness, but Virgo Mercury cannot absorb vast information at lightning speeds because that's mutable Air's speciality.

Despite it all, the issue still remains, Mercury is the only planet that is gender neutral, ambivalent (is neither diurnal nor nocturnal), has no natural temperament, and is not of any set element. Then there's still the issue with the spoken/observational rule of, "no planet can exalt in the signs they rule." But then again, there's never been any rules that state all the planets must have an exaltation/fall. There really is no reason for Mercury to have an exaltation because 1. Mercury functions optimally in mutable mode, but all the mutable signs have been taken up either as domiciles or detriments, 2. Exaltation essentially means exaggerated, 3. None of the other signs can behave in an "exaggerated" manner when in Mercury. The only 2 signs that are truly Mercurial are the signs Mercury rules- Gemini and Virgo.

My mischievous Gemini Mercury debated whether or not I should give the answer away as to "why" the Ancient Greeks assigned Mercury to exalt in Virgo (there's 2 reasons, actually, but the well-known one is wrong and the lesser known reason is actually the correct one), but it might just be more fun that I keep it to myself until someone can come along and give me the correct answer.
 
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poyi

Premium Member
I am under the impression that exalted planet as the honorable guest they have to somehow work hard to keep their status.
 

WeCareALot

Well-known member
Well, this thread is about Taurus Mars but since there's a side thing about Mercury that's been brought on by a Pisces Mercury (I'm pointing the virtual finger at you WCAL) LOL I have to answer this.

Haha!! Yeah, sorry about that, lol. I didn't know we had to stay so strictly on topic. It seems natural for some posts to veer off onto semi-side threads a little bit but... eh. I guess I have to obey the mods :annoyed:


...


:innocent: haha
 
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