The Tropical Ages of Earth

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
We have to begin at the beginning when it comes to knowledge of the Earth's Ages.
And it began with the more easily discovered sidereal Ages, using the V.P. as the transiting Age-indicator, which works as a transiting indicator sidereally, but not tropically (for the reason previously stated).
In your Aldebaran-centered coordinates, the Earth's sidereal, Age-indicator position is currently 5 degrees Pisces. At 71.6 years per degree of retrograde movement, it won't reach your boundary between sidereal Pisces and sidereal Aquarius for another 358 years.
Those proclaiming that the Earth's sidereal Aquarian Age has already begun, aren't using Aldebaran for their version of the sidereal zodiac
.
Certainly there are multiple proclamations alleging
"beginning of the Age of Aquarius" :smile:
as often mentioned by dr. farr
It's important for me to determine whether it's understood that there are both siderealy located Ages of Earth, AND tropically located Ages. The "confusion-factor" is, that the Earth's sidereal Age-indicator is retrograde, approaching (or, already in, depending on the ayanamsa being used) sidereal Aquarius; whereas, the tropical Age-indicator is located using a different, albeit appropriate, terrestrial characteristic, and has direct motion as it approaches tropical Aquarius.

Remember Jupiter and Saturn outermost known planets in ancient times
were called the "Great Chronocrators" by astrologers of old. :smile:
For millennia, the alignment of these two planets
has been regarded as a significator of great social, economic

and political watersheds
- historic turning points, if you will.

Jupiter's alignment with Saturn occurs at intervals of just under 20 years.
The aspect is occasionally repeated due to a retrograde of one or both planets.
Every third conjunction
- once every 60 years
- brings the alignment back to its starting place, plus around 9 degrees:
this 60 year cycle is termed the first order recurrence of the conjunction.
Every 40th conjunction
- roughly once every 800 years
- brings the alignment back to within about 1 degree of its starting place:
this approximate 800 year cycle is termed the second order recurrence
astrologically known as the Great Mutation cycle.
Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions occur in signs of the same element
for a mean period of a bit less than 200 years at a stretch
typically with some overlap at the beginning and end of the cycle.
For example, the cycle of conjunctions in tropical earth signs
(Taurus, Virgo and Capricorn)
was initiated 26 January 1842
and concluded on May 28, 2000.
This cycle was interrupted by December 31, 1980 - July 24, 1981
triple conjunction in Tropical Libra.

For more on the current earth sign series
read "The White House, the Great Chronocrator & Tecumseh's Curse"
The previous Great Chronocrator cycle in the fire signs
(Aries, Leo, Sagittarius) began with the 1663 alignment
and ended with the one in 1821
having been interrupted by the 1802 conjunction in Virgo.
The next cycle of Jupiter-Saturn conjunction will be in signs of Tropical air element
(Gemini, Libra and Aquarius).
It begins with the 21 December 2020 Tropical alignment and concludes with the 2199 conjunction
broken up by the 2159 conjunction in Scorpio.

Following that comes the series in Tropical water signs
(Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces), from 2219 to 2378
(interrupted by the 2338 alignment in the fire sign Sagittarius).


The change of element in a GREAT CHRONOCRATOR series
is known as the Trigonalis, OR GREAT MUTATION
from ancient times considered as the hallmark of epochal social and political change.
On average, this occurs only once every couple hundred years or so.
From this Tropical perspective, it would seem that we are now living
in the twilight of an historical epoch stretching from the 1840s to 2020.
Triple conjunctions of Jupiter and Saturn are rare enough
to be regarded as indicators of major cultural change, much like the Trigonalis.
It was just such a triple conjunction in Tropical Pisces
– anciently regarded as the sign of the Jews
- that led the Magi to search for "The King of the Jews" in 7 BCE.
(Magi translates as 'astrologers'.)
There have been only two triple conjunctions in the current Tropical earth sign series
that being the 1940-41 and 1980-81 trios
the latter being the 'interruptor' alignment in Tropical Libra
that broke the Tropical all-earth sign series begun in 1842.
There won't be another triple conjunction until the 2238-39 series in Tropical Cancer.

keep in mind obviously
that the above conjunctions vary elementally
when factored in Sidereal calculations
 

david starling

Well-known member
Watchasay, SCU? You getting it? Two different Age-readings, one sidereal (dependant on the ayanamsa being used), the other tropical, using a different terrestrial characteristic to locate the Earth's Age-indicator. Not sure I can explain it any better than that.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Watchasay, SCU? You getting it? Two different Age-readings, one sidereal (dependant on the ayanamsa being used), the other tropical, using a different terrestrial characteristic to locate the Earth's Age-indicator. Not sure I can explain it any better than that.
That's very clear
so we have sidereal ayanamsa dependent Age-readings :smile:

and
a "different terrestrial characteristic" to locate Tropical Ages of Earth

but as yet
we have not found "a different terrestrial characteristic"
so we cannot locate Tropical Ages of Earth as yet
so Tropical Ages of Earth are as yet theoretical
very interesting
 

david starling

Well-known member
The Challenge was issued by a follower of Cyril Fagan, the "Father of Modern-siderealism": "If you tropicalists want to promote an Age of Aquarius, then get your own, and leave ours alone!" This was on a radio program in 1979, when the Age of Aquarius was still a popular topic, including the belief that it would begin in the year 2000. I agreed with him, and set about trying to find one.
I read Fagan's own view of the Ages, which clearly delineated the fact that to have an Age, it has to have an Age-indicator that moves through the Signs. And, obviously, the First Point of tropical Aries, which is the point being used to predict an upcoming, sidereal Aquarian Age, can't logically be expected to move through the the other tropical Signs!
 
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petosiris

Banned
The Challenge was issued by a follower of Cyril Fagan, the "Father of Modern-siderealism": "If you tropicalists want to promote an Age of Aquarius, then get your own, and leave ours alone!" This was on a radio program in 1979, when the Age of Aquarius was still a popular topic, including the belief that it would begin in the year 2000. I agreed with him, and set about trying to find one.
I read Fagan's own view of the Ages, which clearly delineated the fact that to have an Age, it has to have an Age-indicator that moves through the Signs. And, obviously, the First Point of tropical Aries, which is the point being used to predict an upcoming, sidereal Aquarian Age, can't logically be expected to move through the the other tropical Signs!

Smoking and awaiting Aquarius for that long? Dayum, son. :aquarius:
 

BlackLioness87

Well-known member
Your intolerance is kind of violent in its insistence.

Perhaps you need to meditate more.
It's just that JUPITERASC probably have Pisces ASC, so his/her chart ruler was or is actually THE AGE RULER. JUPITERASC wouldn't probably want Capricorn (As a theoretical Tropical Age-Sign) to override Pisces (Sidereal Age-Sign).

Just kidding :tongue: My Scorpio Moon makes me think my suspicions are facts, but I know deep inside that my suspicions aren't always true.

There may also be some reincarnated ancient astrology masters posting in this thread, maybe they haven't realized we are currently living on the XXI century so they may not be very open to new astrology approaches.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
It's just that JUPITERASC probably have Pisces ASC, so his/her chart ruler was or is actually THE AGE RULER. JUPITERASC wouldn't probably want Capricorn (As a theoretical Tropical Age-Sign) to override Pisces (Sidereal Age-Sign).

Just kidding :tongue: My Scorpio Moon makes me think my suspicions are facts, but I know deep inside that my suspicions aren't always true.

There may also be some reincarnated ancient astrology masters posting in this thread, maybe they haven't realized we are currently living on the XXI century so they may not be very open to new astrology approaches.
58187986.jpg
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I suppose it is akin to praying, and waiting for the Second Coming. Moon in Aqua might be making us malcontented with the way things have been, and currently are, in a big way! :biggrin:
I think we probably need to discuss this subject

on a more appropriate subject post as the one referred to above.
Because if I was brand new to this forum was interested in bullying,
found this post through a search and considered reading and posting
only to find the last few posts from us
eg the circle of ages eg 1000AD,

dinosaurs and underpants

I would think either 1) I had gone mad,
2) I had been redirected to a strange site
or 3) astrologers are bonkers.
threads on the topic :smile:
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86049&highlight=ages

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78490&highlight=ages

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114150&highlight=ages

To use the 0 degrees tropical Aries point to locate the Sign and degree of the Age,
you'll need a sidereal chart and whatever ayanamsa you trust.
The transiting Age-indicator is in all sidereal Charts,
but not tropical, using this method.
Sidereal only.
Currently, using Aldebaran to center sidereal Taurus, it's located at 5 degrees Pisces,
and moving Retrograde.
and so
you have stated clearly that
to locate the Tropical Ages
you begin by using a sidereal chart
and that necessitates the use of an ayanamsa :smile:
and since there are multiple ayanamsa to choose from
the location of the so-called tropical zero point
differs dependent on the ayanamsa

.
I should specified that a sidereal chart is necessary to use the tropical Aries point to determine the SIDEREAL AGES.

The TROPICAL AGES are direct-motion, whereas the SIDEREAL AGES are retrograde. And, no ayanamsa exists regarding the tropical Ages.
Sidereal constellations are observable in real time in local skies
i.e.
example using clearly observable Moon:

MOON
IS NOT ALWAYS IN SAME SIGN BOTH TROPICALLY

AND SIDEREALLY

because
although Astrologers
– whether Tropical or Sidereal
– are commenting on and making predictions
regarding THE IDENTICAL MOON in local skies :smile:
Tropical Chart generated by computer
differs by DEGREE OCCUPIED BY THE MOON
from Sidereal DEGREE OCCUPIED BY MOON


THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TROPICAL MOON AND SIDEREAL MOON IS:



Sidereal location of Moon is confirmed BY VISUAL observation of local skies
whereas
in contrast
Tropical Chart Moon is not visible in local skies at degree claimed in tropical chart
i.e.

there is a minimum difference of 20° up to a maximum of approximately 24°
between TROPICAL AND SIDEREAL MEASUREMENT


ANY planet at 0° OF any TROPICAL SIGN
is SIDEREALLY between approximately 6° - 10°
to a maximum 24° of the PREVIOUS SIGN
dependent on the ayanamsha

and so SIRIUSLY on ad infinitum

Q.E.D.

.
 

david starling

Well-known member
*

This video details the massive mistake made over 2,000 years ago

that incorrectly calibrates the astrological ages

with an error of around 1,100 years too late.

Based on the incorrect method, the Age of Aquarius arrives around 2600 AD

while the correct method has the arrival date in the 15th century AD :smile:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmYtxMcuNf0&feature=youtu.be




.

So far as we know for certain, the sidereal Age of Aquarius concept as now known goes back only about a century.

The vital mistake in that regard, is not realizing that if there's an Age-indicator for the sidereal Zodiac, there's no reason why there shouldn't be one for the tropical Zodiac as well.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
So far as we know for certain, the sidereal Age of Aquarius concept as now known goes back only about a century.

The vital mistake in that regard, is not realizing that if there's an Age-indicator for the sidereal Zodiac, there's no reason why there shouldn't be one for the tropical Zodiac as well.
*

The VP aka VERNAL POINT

has been in the constellation of Pisces
for two thousand years or more
and remains in the constellation of Pisces :smile:
This is why most astrologers claim we remain in the Age of Pisces.
Most research astrologers
accept the zodiacal constellations as symbolic markers
only for the 12 sidereal signs of exactly 30 degrees each.
The sidereal zodiac was invented by the ancient Greeks
(or Babylonian astrologers)
to tidy up the zodiacal constellations
in their evolving practice of horoscopic astrology.

This video details the massive mistake made over 2,000 years ago
that incorrectly calibrates the astrological ages
with an error of around 1,100 years too late.
Based on the incorrect method, the Age of Aquarius arrives around 2600 AD
while the correct method has the arrival date in the 15th century AD :smile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmYtxMcuNf0&feature=youtu.be
 

david starling

Well-known member
*

The VP aka VERNAL POINT

has been in the constellation of Pisces
for two thousand years or more
and remains in the constellation of Pisces :smile:
This is why most astrologers claim we remain in the Age of Pisces.
Most research astrologers
accept the zodiacal constellations as symbolic markers
only for the 12 sidereal signs of exactly 30 degrees each.
The sidereal zodiac was invented by the ancient Greeks
(or Babylonian astrologers)
to tidy up the zodiacal constellations
in their evolving practice of horoscopic astrology.

This video details the massive mistake made over 2,000 years ago
that incorrectly calibrates the astrological ages
with an error of around 1,100 years too late.
Based on the incorrect method, the Age of Aquarius arrives around 2600 AD
while the correct method has the arrival date in the 15th century AD :smile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmYtxMcuNf0&feature=youtu.be

This adds yet ANOTHER opinion concerning the many, widely varying start-dates for the retrograde sidereal Ages.

In contrast, the direct-motion tropical Ages depend on astronomy rather than on astrological opinion for their start-dates.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
*

The VP aka VERNAL POINT

has been in the constellation of Pisces
for two thousand years or more
and remains in the constellation of Pisces :smile:
This is why most astrologers claim we remain in the Age of Pisces.
Most research astrologers
accept the zodiacal constellations as symbolic markers
only for the 12 sidereal signs of exactly 30 degrees each.
The sidereal zodiac was invented by the ancient Greeks
(or Babylonian astrologers)
to tidy up the zodiacal constellations
in their evolving practice of horoscopic astrology.

This video details the massive mistake made over 2,000 years ago
that incorrectly calibrates the astrological ages
with an error of around 1,100 years too late.

Based
on the incorrect method, the Age of Aquarius arrives
around 2600 AD

while the correct method

has the arrival date in the 15th century AD :smile:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmYtxMcuNf0&feature=youtu.be
This adds yet ANOTHER opinion concerning the many, widely varying start-dates for the retrograde sidereal Ages.

In contrast, the direct-motion tropical Ages depend on astronomy rather than on astrological opinion for their start-dates.


Unfortunately for astrologers over the following period
(equivalent to the length of an age),
Hipparchus failed to realize that
the old zodiacal constellations had a much older method of calibration :smile:

The older method of calibrating the zodiacal constellations
is a visual technique.
All old astronomical techniques were visual
—mathematics took an insignificant role in ancient astronomy.
Hipparchus did not use the ages-old visual technique
as he was obviously transfixed by the new mathematical techniques
developed in his era.

.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Unfortunately for astrologers over the following period
(equivalent to the length of an age),
Hipparchus failed to realize that
the old zodiacal constellations had a much older method of calibration :smile:

The older method of calibrating the zodiacal constellations
is a visual technique.
All old astronomical techniques were visual
—mathematics took an insignificant role in ancient astronomy.
Hipparchus did not use the ages-old visual technique
as he was obviously transfixed by the new mathematical techniques
developed in his era.

.

That doesn't affect the tropical Ages for today's astrologers, who do use exact, non-visual calculations for a variety of important points, including the Angles and the Nodes.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
*

The VP aka VERNAL POINT

has been in the constellation of Pisces
for two thousand years or more
and remains in the constellation of Pisces :smile:
This is why most astrologers claim we remain in the Age of Pisces.
Most research astrologers
accept the zodiacal constellations as symbolic markers
only for the 12 sidereal signs of exactly 30 degrees each.
The sidereal zodiac was invented by the ancient Greeks
(or Babylonian astrologers)
to tidy up the zodiacal constellations
in their evolving practice of horoscopic astrology.

This video details the massive mistake made over 2,000 years ago
that incorrectly calibrates the astrological ages
with an error of around 1,100 years too late.

Based
on the incorrect method, the Age of Aquarius arrives
around 2600 AD

while the correct method

has the arrival date in the 15th century AD :smile:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmYtxMcuNf0&feature=youtu.be
This adds yet ANOTHER opinion concerning the many, widely varying start-dates for the retrograde sidereal Ages.

In contrast, the direct-motion tropical Ages depend on astronomy rather than on astrological opinion for their start-dates.


Unfortunately for astrologers over the following period
(equivalent to the length of an age),
Hipparchus failed to realize that
the old zodiacal constellations had a much older method of calibration :smile:

The older method of calibrating the zodiacal constellations
is a visual technique.
All old astronomical techniques were visual
—mathematics took an insignificant role in ancient astronomy.
Hipparchus did not use the ages-old visual technique
as he was obviously transfixed by the new mathematical techniques
developed in his era.

.
Unfortunately for astrologers over the following period
(equivalent to the length of an age),
Hipparchus failed to realize that
the old zodiacal constellations had a much older method of calibration :smile:

The older method of calibrating the zodiacal constellations
is a visual technique.
All old astronomical techniques were visual
—mathematics took an insignificant role in ancient astronomy.
Hipparchus did not use the ages-old visual technique
as he was obviously transfixed by the new mathematical techniques
developed in his era.

.

That doesn't affect the tropical Ages for today's astrologers, who do use exact, non-visual calculations for a variety of important points, including the Angles and the Nodes.
Rumen Kolev wrote Some Reflections about Babylonian Astrology :smile:

In this paper
Kolev explains the five basic principles
applied to ancient astronomy techniques in Babylon.

In summary, three of these principles
state the visible light directly received from a stellar object
was of primary concern, as the ancients believed “God is Light.”
In those days, the view of the heavens by the unaided eye
was the only method of determining astronomical phenomena.

The other two principles are
that the two key times for astronomical observations
are around Sunrise and Sunset



http://www.babylonianastrology.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=36&Itemid=54


.
 
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