north node opposing ascendant
- Thread starter issajakes
- Start date
Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
That would mean the north node was on the descendant..... the descendant represents not only others but where you are heading spiritually in this lifetime. (The asc is "who" and desc is "whom-to" from a spiritual perspective)
the north node represents progress and balance of character...
so this placement is very promising... it suggests that you are destined to reach great spiritual growth in this lifetime.
mars conjunct north node seems to give an extra oomph and push to bring about this progress.
the north node shows potential and mars shows the drive to turn that potential into reality.
sn on ascendant isn't necessarily doomed you just have to make sure that you leave behind the negative qualities of virgo (Criticism and perfectionism and whatever else that would depend on specific degree placement.)
This all is heightened due to pisces being a spiritually-focused sign.
i would be interested in knowing the exact degrees of these placements ( degree & minutes of desc, nn & mars) as it will tell you more specifically where you are headed in this lifetime...
the north node represents progress and balance of character...
so this placement is very promising... it suggests that you are destined to reach great spiritual growth in this lifetime.
mars conjunct north node seems to give an extra oomph and push to bring about this progress.
the north node shows potential and mars shows the drive to turn that potential into reality.
sn on ascendant isn't necessarily doomed you just have to make sure that you leave behind the negative qualities of virgo (Criticism and perfectionism and whatever else that would depend on specific degree placement.)
This all is heightened due to pisces being a spiritually-focused sign.
i would be interested in knowing the exact degrees of these placements ( degree & minutes of desc, nn & mars) as it will tell you more specifically where you are headed in this lifetime...
Last edited:
issajakes
Member
Thank you so much rahu & Phoenix Venus!
You both have helped to enlighten and validate some of the positive as well as the dangerous things intuit.
I actually just wrote an in depth response that got lost because by the time i had finished, apparently i was no longer logged in. I guess what i had written was not in harmony with what the numinous desired of me.
I will download my entire chart as reference. I'm not asking either of you or anyone else to necessarily read it but at least it will be there to put my NN question in context.
For now:
Descendant 9 Pisces 47'37
Moon's (North) Node 15 Pisces 35'53
Mars 7 Pisces 51'06
It is rare that i feel comfortable talking of that which i experience internally and i am grateful to you both and to this forum.
issa
You both have helped to enlighten and validate some of the positive as well as the dangerous things intuit.
I actually just wrote an in depth response that got lost because by the time i had finished, apparently i was no longer logged in. I guess what i had written was not in harmony with what the numinous desired of me.
I will download my entire chart as reference. I'm not asking either of you or anyone else to necessarily read it but at least it will be there to put my NN question in context.
For now:
Descendant 9 Pisces 47'37
Moon's (North) Node 15 Pisces 35'53
Mars 7 Pisces 51'06
It is rare that i feel comfortable talking of that which i experience internally and i am grateful to you both and to this forum.
issa
Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
Hi Issajakes, I am glad to be of help 
Okay let’s look at the sabian symbolism for those points. We’ll start with the dynamic between the Ascendant/ Descendant axis.
These symbols (purple text) are taken from Dane Rudhyar’s “An Astrological Mandala”
Ascendant @ 9.48 Virgo (remember this represents WHO you are)
"TWO HEADS LOOKING OUT AND BEYOND THE SHADOWS.
KEYNOTE: The growth of true understanding, born out of the transcendence of duality even while immersed in the world of duality.
The mind operates inevitably in this world of conflicts, oppositions and duality. Yet when the opposites realize that they are complementary aspects of the one Reality which sustains and encompasses all dualistic modes of existence, they are able then to look away from internal conflicts and beyond the shadows these conflicts generate. "
What a profound and complex symbol to have as a representation of who you are. It seems that your place in life is one of deep introspection. It’s important to RISE ABOVE the inherent duality of life rather than to feel stuck amongst opposing forces.
Descendant @ 9.48 Virgo. (this represents WHOM-TO, who you are aspiring to be in this life.)
"AN AVIATOR PURSUES HIS JOURNEY, FLYING THROUGH GROUND-OBSCURING CLOUDS.
KEYNOTE: Man's ability to develop powers and skills which by transcending natural limitations allow him to operate in mental-spiritual realms. "
So, you might see how these two symbols have an inherent “Creative Unity”, both representing aspects of transcendence. This suggests the ability to rise above your situation and cultural standards in order to bring an innovative outlook upon the world. MASTERY is the keyword of this symbol and that is really awesome as THE MASTER was The One who was spiritually fulfilled.
Next let’s look at your nodal axis.
The SOUTH NODE shows inherent abilities that will lead to the NORTH NODE (spiritual progress and balance.) It is important to MASTER these abilities and harness them in a positive way so that you can jump to the north node. Your ascendant symbolism suggests an understanding of this concept- oppositions represent a polarity that feed off of one another, so the south node is the route to the north node. So rather than leaving ALL of the south node behind, you should really EMBRACE that south node and only leave behind that which is not conducive to your spiritual growth.
South Node @ 15.36 Virgo
"IN THE ZOO, CHILDREN ARE BROUGHT FACE TO FACE WITH AN ORANG-UTANG.
KEYNOTE: A direct confrontation with the "wild" power of primordial nature within oneself."
I really like this quote to sum up what is required of this nodal position: “Every hidden motive and depth energy has to be "led out" and objectively faced” as well as this one: “and we may well repeat at a higher level the "sin of the mindless."
So it is important for you to remember to stay MINDFUL and aware, ready to FACE yourself and your own flaws and limitations, in order to get past them.
North Node @ 15.36 Pisces:
"IN THE QUIET OF HIS STUDY A CREATIVE INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCES A FLOW OF INSPIRATION.
KEYNOTE: Reliance upon one's inner source of inspiration or guidance."
So whereas the south node focuses on objectivity, the north node focuses on SUBJECTIVE STRENGTH. This is a crucial distinction because remember that your ac/dc axis is about rising above the dual forces of existence…. to do that you have to remain self-assured.
Pay close attention to this quote: “the keynote of truly significant creative processes: their source is above, beyond, but also around the individual creator. “
I get the sense that you have the potential to be a visionary, innovative person that could bring great changes to the world. It’s important then to not let yourself be too influenced by the world. Whereas the South node tells you to peer at yourself from an outside perspective, taking on self-criticism from a perspective of societal standards, Subjective strength is KEY to your progress as it allows you to stand UNCOMPROMISINGLY for YOUR TRUTH and YOUR VISION.
Lastly, let’s look at your mars placement which will show how you can best ACT to bring about this subjective strength that is required to reach spiritual balance.
Mars @ Pisces 7.51:
"A GIRL BLOWING A BUGLE.
KEYNOTE: A call to participation in the service of the race, as an evolutionary crisis approaches."
This happens to be the symbol for my part of soul! So it’s no coincidence that I felt called to respond to your question. This is a symbol of SERVICE and it shows that a drive to PARTICIPATE, get involved, and help others around you, will be your greatest asset in reaching your north node potential. It also suggests again a proclivity towards VISION… meaning that imagination and innovation are something that will become part of your life purpose.
[edited quotes that were more than 100 words and with more than three quotes per post against Forum rules - Moderator]
Okay let’s look at the sabian symbolism for those points. We’ll start with the dynamic between the Ascendant/ Descendant axis.
These symbols (purple text) are taken from Dane Rudhyar’s “An Astrological Mandala”
Ascendant @ 9.48 Virgo (remember this represents WHO you are)
"TWO HEADS LOOKING OUT AND BEYOND THE SHADOWS.
KEYNOTE: The growth of true understanding, born out of the transcendence of duality even while immersed in the world of duality.
The mind operates inevitably in this world of conflicts, oppositions and duality. Yet when the opposites realize that they are complementary aspects of the one Reality which sustains and encompasses all dualistic modes of existence, they are able then to look away from internal conflicts and beyond the shadows these conflicts generate. "
What a profound and complex symbol to have as a representation of who you are. It seems that your place in life is one of deep introspection. It’s important to RISE ABOVE the inherent duality of life rather than to feel stuck amongst opposing forces.
Descendant @ 9.48 Virgo. (this represents WHOM-TO, who you are aspiring to be in this life.)
"AN AVIATOR PURSUES HIS JOURNEY, FLYING THROUGH GROUND-OBSCURING CLOUDS.
KEYNOTE: Man's ability to develop powers and skills which by transcending natural limitations allow him to operate in mental-spiritual realms. "
So, you might see how these two symbols have an inherent “Creative Unity”, both representing aspects of transcendence. This suggests the ability to rise above your situation and cultural standards in order to bring an innovative outlook upon the world. MASTERY is the keyword of this symbol and that is really awesome as THE MASTER was The One who was spiritually fulfilled.
Next let’s look at your nodal axis.
The SOUTH NODE shows inherent abilities that will lead to the NORTH NODE (spiritual progress and balance.) It is important to MASTER these abilities and harness them in a positive way so that you can jump to the north node. Your ascendant symbolism suggests an understanding of this concept- oppositions represent a polarity that feed off of one another, so the south node is the route to the north node. So rather than leaving ALL of the south node behind, you should really EMBRACE that south node and only leave behind that which is not conducive to your spiritual growth.
South Node @ 15.36 Virgo
"IN THE ZOO, CHILDREN ARE BROUGHT FACE TO FACE WITH AN ORANG-UTANG.
KEYNOTE: A direct confrontation with the "wild" power of primordial nature within oneself."
I really like this quote to sum up what is required of this nodal position: “Every hidden motive and depth energy has to be "led out" and objectively faced” as well as this one: “and we may well repeat at a higher level the "sin of the mindless."
So it is important for you to remember to stay MINDFUL and aware, ready to FACE yourself and your own flaws and limitations, in order to get past them.
North Node @ 15.36 Pisces:
"IN THE QUIET OF HIS STUDY A CREATIVE INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCES A FLOW OF INSPIRATION.
KEYNOTE: Reliance upon one's inner source of inspiration or guidance."
So whereas the south node focuses on objectivity, the north node focuses on SUBJECTIVE STRENGTH. This is a crucial distinction because remember that your ac/dc axis is about rising above the dual forces of existence…. to do that you have to remain self-assured.
Pay close attention to this quote: “the keynote of truly significant creative processes: their source is above, beyond, but also around the individual creator. “
I get the sense that you have the potential to be a visionary, innovative person that could bring great changes to the world. It’s important then to not let yourself be too influenced by the world. Whereas the South node tells you to peer at yourself from an outside perspective, taking on self-criticism from a perspective of societal standards, Subjective strength is KEY to your progress as it allows you to stand UNCOMPROMISINGLY for YOUR TRUTH and YOUR VISION.
Lastly, let’s look at your mars placement which will show how you can best ACT to bring about this subjective strength that is required to reach spiritual balance.
Mars @ Pisces 7.51:
"A GIRL BLOWING A BUGLE.
KEYNOTE: A call to participation in the service of the race, as an evolutionary crisis approaches."
This happens to be the symbol for my part of soul! So it’s no coincidence that I felt called to respond to your question. This is a symbol of SERVICE and it shows that a drive to PARTICIPATE, get involved, and help others around you, will be your greatest asset in reaching your north node potential. It also suggests again a proclivity towards VISION… meaning that imagination and innovation are something that will become part of your life purpose.
[edited quotes that were more than 100 words and with more than three quotes per post against Forum rules - Moderator]
Last edited:
Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
To moderator: i was under the impression that quotes for educational purposes were allowed to remain.
That is such a shame as the inquirer is deserving of a full and proper reading.
issajakes, please go here to read the full symbols:
http://www.mindfire.ca/An%20Astrological%20Mandala/An%20Astrological%20Mandala%20-%20Contents.htm
Symbols should be read for next degree up for instance 7.35 pisces would be 8 pisces
That is such a shame as the inquirer is deserving of a full and proper reading.
issajakes, please go here to read the full symbols:
http://www.mindfire.ca/An%20Astrological%20Mandala/An%20Astrological%20Mandala%20-%20Contents.htm
Symbols should be read for next degree up for instance 7.35 pisces would be 8 pisces
issajakes
Member
Phoenix Venus,
Bowing deeply!
I did get a chance to read the symbols just a moment before they were edited out. Thank you also for the link. The language of this paradigm is somewhat overwhelming as i have only dabbled in trying to understand astrology but it resonates deeply nonetheless and i can't wait to learn more.
There are parts of me that do seem deeply primal co-existing with the sense of eternity flowing through. I have continued to do my best to remember that engaging the profound always entails embracing the inherent paradox.
I'd like to share a couple of mantra/prayers that i have developed since the close of my first Saturn return but i'm not sure this is the venue.
I have been attempting to upload my natal chart today following Aquarius 7000's directions to no avail. I read a senior member's post suggesting that one might just offer one's birth info. So here it is: 12/25/1969 9:56 pm Brooklyn, New York, USA. Again, i'm not asking you for a full reading as i understand the time and energy of this work and desire to be respectful. Having said that, i am open to anything you have to offer.
I'm curious about 'This happens to be the symbol for my part of soul!'. Does this mean your NN is in Pisces as well or that your Mars is? I am struck by the kinship that i feel. It is a blessing as i have recently been struggling to not be so critical of myself relative to a world that seems to mistakenly identify wealth as worth. I am a slightly published self (or soul) taught poet. I have always endeavored to engage people deeply offering everything i learned from years of therapy as well as everything i've learned from evolving those tools. I have a very hard time with the concept of receiving money for either of these skills/talents. Lately i find myself sad to be relatively poor as this lack of material agency seems to occlude my ability to engage relationships the way i'd like to. This can be as mundane as having the money to buy a plane ticket to visit friends in New York etc. I keep thinking though that if i can see from the inside out rather than the outside in that which i need will make itself available.
I do have A LOT of Saturn influence & substantial Plutonian influence. If i understand correctly, serious challenges to master several realms and a lot of transformation respectively.
To some degree i feel now as if i am poised on the precipice. As if i must choose to truly plunge in to my role as servant. A leap of faith, eh.
Thanks again for your encouraging words.
Issa
Bowing deeply!
I did get a chance to read the symbols just a moment before they were edited out. Thank you also for the link. The language of this paradigm is somewhat overwhelming as i have only dabbled in trying to understand astrology but it resonates deeply nonetheless and i can't wait to learn more.
There are parts of me that do seem deeply primal co-existing with the sense of eternity flowing through. I have continued to do my best to remember that engaging the profound always entails embracing the inherent paradox.
I'd like to share a couple of mantra/prayers that i have developed since the close of my first Saturn return but i'm not sure this is the venue.
I have been attempting to upload my natal chart today following Aquarius 7000's directions to no avail. I read a senior member's post suggesting that one might just offer one's birth info. So here it is: 12/25/1969 9:56 pm Brooklyn, New York, USA. Again, i'm not asking you for a full reading as i understand the time and energy of this work and desire to be respectful. Having said that, i am open to anything you have to offer.
I'm curious about 'This happens to be the symbol for my part of soul!'. Does this mean your NN is in Pisces as well or that your Mars is? I am struck by the kinship that i feel. It is a blessing as i have recently been struggling to not be so critical of myself relative to a world that seems to mistakenly identify wealth as worth. I am a slightly published self (or soul) taught poet. I have always endeavored to engage people deeply offering everything i learned from years of therapy as well as everything i've learned from evolving those tools. I have a very hard time with the concept of receiving money for either of these skills/talents. Lately i find myself sad to be relatively poor as this lack of material agency seems to occlude my ability to engage relationships the way i'd like to. This can be as mundane as having the money to buy a plane ticket to visit friends in New York etc. I keep thinking though that if i can see from the inside out rather than the outside in that which i need will make itself available.
I do have A LOT of Saturn influence & substantial Plutonian influence. If i understand correctly, serious challenges to master several realms and a lot of transformation respectively.
To some degree i feel now as if i am poised on the precipice. As if i must choose to truly plunge in to my role as servant. A leap of faith, eh.
Thanks again for your encouraging words.
Issa
Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
Issajakes,
Ahh, a piscean poet... poised on the precipice (has such a nice ring!) I also consider myself an artist, lightly dabbling in painting and guitar ( on the beginner level..) Kinship indeed
The appreciation is.... much appreciated! Lol. i am glad you did get a chance to read the full text as Mr.Rudyhar's summation of the symbols are extremely rich & enlightening (they often have a synchronistic magic about them...) It is well worth the effort in spite of being dense and wordy at times...
i employ a method of astrology that is quite different from normal... i find that this method resonates with the more spiritually inclined souls, of which i can tell you are. (Also i forgot to mention i owe much of my knowledge regarding this style of interpretation to forum member piercethevale.)
when i mentioned my "part of soul" I was referring to an arabic part which is a point in the chart derived from the formula: ascendant + sun - moon (mine, at 7.27 pisces, is closely conjunct your mars.)
I like to combine the arabic parts and sabian symbols into my readings as i find this mix really does the best justice as far as explaining the more "attuned" aspects of ones life and purpose.
so let's look at a few of those parts in your chart, shall we?
(Due to restrictions i am quoting the highlights of the text for each symbol, taken from Dane Rudyhar's "An Astrological Mandala". i urge you to look up the full text at the site given in my previous post.)
Your Part of Soul (As + Sun - Moon) is found@ Aquarius 13.41:
"A train entering a tunnel. The ability to shortcut the process of natural evolution by the excercise of will, mental skill and physical self-discipline. Penetration."
Ill refrain frlm interpereting these symbols as i do believe they speak for themselves.
The part of soul represents the innate nature of your being. it could be described as pure uncontaminated energy flowing inward.
The formula that is in contrast to the part of soul is known as the part of fortune, its formula being As + Moon - Sun. this is the yang force that flows outward and represents the most fortunate action one can employ for achieving success and spiritual wellbeing.
Your part of Fortune (As + Moon - Sun) is @ Aries 5.55:
"A square with one of its sides brightly illumined. The emotional desire for concrete and stabilized existence as a person. A one-Sided urge for inner stability."
Some seem tthink that for people with night charts, these two formulae ( fortune & soul) should be reversed. i don't necessarily agree with that (imo the formulae retain the same inherent meaning as the planets themselves do) but. I admit i havent looked for this in enough charts to be completely convinced. so it is something you might want to consider when analyzing these two parts.
Let's also take a look at your part of spiritual service
Part of Spiritual Service (As + Moon - Merc) is found @ Pisces 16.22:
"An easter parade. The capacity inherent in all great sociocultural images to unite the members of a community in a display of excellence. Participation in collective peak experiences."
Lastly, lets look at your part of art.
Part of Art/Venture (As + Mercury - Venus) @ libra 6.28:
"A woman feeding chickens and protecting them from the hawks. The need to face the antagonism of 'powers of darkness' as one attempts to feed the mind of as yet helpless and frightened apprentices. Guardianship."
I can't help but percieve the materialism issues that you mentioned as those "dark forces" that need mitigation. (I feel your pain.)
Ill have a few more linksshortly here in my next post in case any of this was intriguing and you would like to learn more.
Ahh, a piscean poet... poised on the precipice (has such a nice ring!) I also consider myself an artist, lightly dabbling in painting and guitar ( on the beginner level..) Kinship indeed
The appreciation is.... much appreciated! Lol. i am glad you did get a chance to read the full text as Mr.Rudyhar's summation of the symbols are extremely rich & enlightening (they often have a synchronistic magic about them...) It is well worth the effort in spite of being dense and wordy at times...
i employ a method of astrology that is quite different from normal... i find that this method resonates with the more spiritually inclined souls, of which i can tell you are. (Also i forgot to mention i owe much of my knowledge regarding this style of interpretation to forum member piercethevale.)
when i mentioned my "part of soul" I was referring to an arabic part which is a point in the chart derived from the formula: ascendant + sun - moon (mine, at 7.27 pisces, is closely conjunct your mars.)
I like to combine the arabic parts and sabian symbols into my readings as i find this mix really does the best justice as far as explaining the more "attuned" aspects of ones life and purpose.
so let's look at a few of those parts in your chart, shall we?
(Due to restrictions i am quoting the highlights of the text for each symbol, taken from Dane Rudyhar's "An Astrological Mandala". i urge you to look up the full text at the site given in my previous post.)
Your Part of Soul (As + Sun - Moon) is found@ Aquarius 13.41:
"A train entering a tunnel. The ability to shortcut the process of natural evolution by the excercise of will, mental skill and physical self-discipline. Penetration."
Ill refrain frlm interpereting these symbols as i do believe they speak for themselves.
The part of soul represents the innate nature of your being. it could be described as pure uncontaminated energy flowing inward.
The formula that is in contrast to the part of soul is known as the part of fortune, its formula being As + Moon - Sun. this is the yang force that flows outward and represents the most fortunate action one can employ for achieving success and spiritual wellbeing.
Your part of Fortune (As + Moon - Sun) is @ Aries 5.55:
"A square with one of its sides brightly illumined. The emotional desire for concrete and stabilized existence as a person. A one-Sided urge for inner stability."
Some seem tthink that for people with night charts, these two formulae ( fortune & soul) should be reversed. i don't necessarily agree with that (imo the formulae retain the same inherent meaning as the planets themselves do) but. I admit i havent looked for this in enough charts to be completely convinced. so it is something you might want to consider when analyzing these two parts.
Let's also take a look at your part of spiritual service
Part of Spiritual Service (As + Moon - Merc) is found @ Pisces 16.22:
"An easter parade. The capacity inherent in all great sociocultural images to unite the members of a community in a display of excellence. Participation in collective peak experiences."
Lastly, lets look at your part of art.
Part of Art/Venture (As + Mercury - Venus) @ libra 6.28:
"A woman feeding chickens and protecting them from the hawks. The need to face the antagonism of 'powers of darkness' as one attempts to feed the mind of as yet helpless and frightened apprentices. Guardianship."
I can't help but percieve the materialism issues that you mentioned as those "dark forces" that need mitigation. (I feel your pain.)
Ill have a few more linksshortly here in my next post in case any of this was intriguing and you would like to learn more.
Last edited:
Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
Please bare with the typos in that post as i am on my phone....
Okay so there are a lot of parts to be found in your chart. Some goodies off the top of my head are the part of catastrophe (that which might be regretted but ultimately required to happen) the part of victory, courage, necessity, hidden identity, love & appreciation, etc.
here is a full list of the parts and their formulas and meanings:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39338
and here is an online calculator to determine the parts:
http://libracentre.com/arabic_parts_chart.php
You will also consider looking up the symbolism of each degree of your planets. (Especially those that you mentioned, saturn and pluto, as they do show a degree of import in your chart.) and the chart axis. we already discussed the ac-dc axis so lets talk about the mc-ic axis for a second. the Mc represents the spiritual "How"... that would be how you get from the asc to the desc.... and the Ic represents the spiritual "Why"..., why you are here moving from the ac to the dc... again remember to read the symbol for the next degree up (0.26 aries is 1 aries, etc..)
its probably a lot to take in and figure out all at once so don't hesitate to ask if you have any more questions.
Okay so there are a lot of parts to be found in your chart. Some goodies off the top of my head are the part of catastrophe (that which might be regretted but ultimately required to happen) the part of victory, courage, necessity, hidden identity, love & appreciation, etc.
here is a full list of the parts and their formulas and meanings:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39338
and here is an online calculator to determine the parts:
http://libracentre.com/arabic_parts_chart.php
You will also consider looking up the symbolism of each degree of your planets. (Especially those that you mentioned, saturn and pluto, as they do show a degree of import in your chart.) and the chart axis. we already discussed the ac-dc axis so lets talk about the mc-ic axis for a second. the Mc represents the spiritual "How"... that would be how you get from the asc to the desc.... and the Ic represents the spiritual "Why"..., why you are here moving from the ac to the dc... again remember to read the symbol for the next degree up (0.26 aries is 1 aries, etc..)
its probably a lot to take in and figure out all at once so don't hesitate to ask if you have any more questions.
Last edited:
issajakes
Member
Phoenix Venus,
(does your moniker indicate your Venus is in Scorpio or something of the like?)
Ok, lots(parts~ha!) to process! i'm getting a feel though. (You are amazing btw responding to me via phone! typos heartily forgiven!
)
So far i really dig Dane Rudhyar’s work. I am a Jung fan as well. When i read his autobiography i felt so much less lonely and directionless. I have been recording my dreams since i was young and he has helped me on the path to understanding that they are their own poetry speaking in their own language of metaphor(symbol) rather than in literal terms.
I have been reading Liz Greene: Astrology for Lovers but also, and mostly Saturn: A New Look at an Old Devil. This last has been extremely helpful in understanding my 6 planets in aspect to Saturn. I have also gleaned some insight into what each of the houses means as well as the planets. So, simplified....
I understand that
Sun=Destiny
Moon=What one needs, emotional identity, mothering principal
Mercury=Sense of truth & communication
Venus=One's femininity, how one is receptive, how one loves
Mars=Masculinity, how one is active
Jupiter=One's sense of faith, luck
Saturn=One's karma, Where one is occluded but also via this occlusion opportunity for mastery
I have looked much less into those further out although i understand that Pluto is about transformation (and would be responsible for creatures such as the Phoenix, oui?). It dawns on me that this is a weakness in my understanding as i also understand that these outer planets have to do with larger movements in the universe such as how we are evolving. I do have the tendency to believe that all things have a kind of consciousness, so when i say 'we', i mean Everything. (love to hear your thoughts on this concept!)
SO~ when looking at Rudhyar's symbols for each planet i read them as relative to that planet's meaning, ie: Mars Pisces 7.51=A Girl Blowing a Bugle is the way that i engage, approach, act, penetrate, step to the waking, manifested world as i bear my destiny along my spiritual path (NN, oui?). Venus Sagittarius 27.33 = An Old Bridge Over A Beautiful Stream Is Still In Constant Use is the way (or to what?) i am receptive, loving, feminine? Is that correct? Pardon my stumbling around a bit in the dark here.
Also, how do i use the symbols to read my major aspects, to understand Moon SQUARE Saturn 1.49 or Venus TRINE Saturn 5.04?
I was thinking of the symbol for my Mars Pisces & your part of soul btw today and it struck me that much of my writing deals with an attempt to synthesize parts and seeming opposites in a way that creates something new, a mutant, this being the process of evolution which is basically a changing in symphony with our constantly changing environment/universe. I can't help but think of a statistic my sister found somewhere that says that 1 in 50 children are being born representing hermaphroditic traits and the number is growing. Might we finally have begun to embrace the fact that everyone is both male and female?!
Still trying to digest the Arabic parts and what they mean. You have opened me to vast new worlds! I love it!
issa
(does your moniker indicate your Venus is in Scorpio or something of the like?)
Ok, lots(parts~ha!) to process! i'm getting a feel though. (You are amazing btw responding to me via phone! typos heartily forgiven!
)So far i really dig Dane Rudhyar’s work. I am a Jung fan as well. When i read his autobiography i felt so much less lonely and directionless. I have been recording my dreams since i was young and he has helped me on the path to understanding that they are their own poetry speaking in their own language of metaphor(symbol) rather than in literal terms.
I have been reading Liz Greene: Astrology for Lovers but also, and mostly Saturn: A New Look at an Old Devil. This last has been extremely helpful in understanding my 6 planets in aspect to Saturn. I have also gleaned some insight into what each of the houses means as well as the planets. So, simplified....
I understand that
Sun=Destiny
Moon=What one needs, emotional identity, mothering principal
Mercury=Sense of truth & communication
Venus=One's femininity, how one is receptive, how one loves
Mars=Masculinity, how one is active
Jupiter=One's sense of faith, luck
Saturn=One's karma, Where one is occluded but also via this occlusion opportunity for mastery
I have looked much less into those further out although i understand that Pluto is about transformation (and would be responsible for creatures such as the Phoenix, oui?). It dawns on me that this is a weakness in my understanding as i also understand that these outer planets have to do with larger movements in the universe such as how we are evolving. I do have the tendency to believe that all things have a kind of consciousness, so when i say 'we', i mean Everything. (love to hear your thoughts on this concept!)
SO~ when looking at Rudhyar's symbols for each planet i read them as relative to that planet's meaning, ie: Mars Pisces 7.51=A Girl Blowing a Bugle is the way that i engage, approach, act, penetrate, step to the waking, manifested world as i bear my destiny along my spiritual path (NN, oui?). Venus Sagittarius 27.33 = An Old Bridge Over A Beautiful Stream Is Still In Constant Use is the way (or to what?) i am receptive, loving, feminine? Is that correct? Pardon my stumbling around a bit in the dark here.
Also, how do i use the symbols to read my major aspects, to understand Moon SQUARE Saturn 1.49 or Venus TRINE Saturn 5.04?
I was thinking of the symbol for my Mars Pisces & your part of soul btw today and it struck me that much of my writing deals with an attempt to synthesize parts and seeming opposites in a way that creates something new, a mutant, this being the process of evolution which is basically a changing in symphony with our constantly changing environment/universe. I can't help but think of a statistic my sister found somewhere that says that 1 in 50 children are being born representing hermaphroditic traits and the number is growing. Might we finally have begun to embrace the fact that everyone is both male and female?!
Still trying to digest the Arabic parts and what they mean. You have opened me to vast new worlds! I love it!
issa
Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
Issa,
when i first found out about the sabians and arabic lots i felt like a kid at christmas there are so many of them and they get quite specific... it certainly is a whole new world of discovery.
Yes, my venus is at 0.49 scorpio and my ascendant is 1.09 scorpio... so my ac-dc line is right along your jupiter- saturn opposition... maybe a little corny but i like to think of my sn as "rebirth of love" (my birth name happens to mean "resurrection") and though i didn't realize it when i first came to the site, it really has been quite prophetic of some of my experiences since coming here.
I'm also a jung enthusiast and used to keep a dream journal back when i was younger.. (im unemployed atm and thus have plenty of extra time so i might get back into recording them....) I'm a believer in the veracity of prophetic dreams and lucid dreams. we will definitely have to talk more on this subject... i will shoot you a pm at some point.
This might interest you: forum member piercethevale has been championing a particular chart as the true chart of Yeshua (and after working with it for quite some time, i am completely convinced that this chart is the real deal.) The charts part of tragedy is conjunct your venus. The part of tragedy can be read as something like "the moral of the story" or the purpose behind life events... as the keyword for the symbol is the "beautiful necessity" you might see how it would relate to His life and how intriguing it is that your venus placement is there.
But yes that would be how you go about synthesising the symbols into meaning. It basically gives a more specific flavor to that planets position. It takes a lot of practice so don't be discouraged if it seems confusing at times.. (I've been studying astrology for 8 years now, the sabians for a year, and i still have to reach many times to get a good grasp of it.)
Regarding outer planets, it helps to remember them as higher vibrational representations of the inner planets:
Uranus: mercury. The higher mind, humanitarianism and innovation
Neptune: venus. The higher love principle, collective unconscious
Pluto: mars. The higher action, transformation (and don't listen to em when the say pluto is not a planet... its the orbit that matters not the mass and pluto's orbit is finely tuned with the orbits of the other planets. )
Man this is already getting long and i haven't even begun to get into those aspects you mentioned.... that shall come in a later post. (but i did want to point out that you have quite a few mini grand trines which points toward talent inclinations..)
when i first found out about the sabians and arabic lots i felt like a kid at christmas
there are so many of them and they get quite specific... it certainly is a whole new world of discovery.Yes, my venus is at 0.49 scorpio and my ascendant is 1.09 scorpio... so my ac-dc line is right along your jupiter- saturn opposition... maybe a little corny but i like to think of my sn as "rebirth of love" (my birth name happens to mean "resurrection") and though i didn't realize it when i first came to the site, it really has been quite prophetic of some of my experiences since coming here.
I'm also a jung enthusiast and used to keep a dream journal back when i was younger.. (im unemployed atm and thus have plenty of extra time so i might get back into recording them....) I'm a believer in the veracity of prophetic dreams and lucid dreams. we will definitely have to talk more on this subject... i will shoot you a pm at some point.
This might interest you: forum member piercethevale has been championing a particular chart as the true chart of Yeshua (and after working with it for quite some time, i am completely convinced that this chart is the real deal.) The charts part of tragedy is conjunct your venus. The part of tragedy can be read as something like "the moral of the story" or the purpose behind life events... as the keyword for the symbol is the "beautiful necessity" you might see how it would relate to His life and how intriguing it is that your venus placement is there.
But yes that would be how you go about synthesising the symbols into meaning. It basically gives a more specific flavor to that planets position. It takes a lot of practice so don't be discouraged if it seems confusing at times.. (I've been studying astrology for 8 years now, the sabians for a year, and i still have to reach many times to get a good grasp of it.)
Regarding outer planets, it helps to remember them as higher vibrational representations of the inner planets:
Uranus: mercury. The higher mind, humanitarianism and innovation
Neptune: venus. The higher love principle, collective unconscious
Pluto: mars. The higher action, transformation (and don't listen to em when the say pluto is not a planet... its the orbit that matters not the mass and pluto's orbit is finely tuned with the orbits of the other planets. )
Man this is already getting long and i haven't even begun to get into those aspects you mentioned.... that shall come in a later post.
(but i did want to point out that you have quite a few mini grand trines which points toward talent inclinations..)
issajakes
Member
Ooo, mini grand trines! That sounds promising!
I have no idea what they mean but i will go about seeing what i can find.
Studying His part of tragedy conjunct (does that mean the same, on the same axis?) my Venus~ The moral of His story is how i understand Love in a very personal way, Maybe?
Although i rarely go to church, when i do, it means something much different to me than what i think it means to most of the company and when i take communion, it brings tears to my eyes. Ash Wednesday, what i understand the symbolism of it to be, affects me in a similar way. I hear it as: From emptiness you came and to emptiness you shall return. The original miracle of existence!
don't worry, i believe there is truth to be found in what science has to say but even it speaks in metaphor which means we have to actually translate rather than swallow the literal hook line and sinker. I believe in Pluto! He's working in me as i speak!
I have no idea what they mean but i will go about seeing what i can find.Studying His part of tragedy conjunct (does that mean the same, on the same axis?) my Venus~ The moral of His story is how i understand Love in a very personal way, Maybe?
Although i rarely go to church, when i do, it means something much different to me than what i think it means to most of the company and when i take communion, it brings tears to my eyes. Ash Wednesday, what i understand the symbolism of it to be, affects me in a similar way. I hear it as: From emptiness you came and to emptiness you shall return. The original miracle of existence!
don't worry, i believe there is truth to be found in what science has to say but even it speaks in metaphor which means we have to actually translate rather than swallow the literal hook line and sinker. I believe in Pluto! He's working in me as i speak!
Birch Dragon
Well-known member
Issa's Nodal axis is the same as my Asc./Dec. axis. My Ascendent degree is Issa's South node (Virgo 16). I've thought a great deal about that particular symbol. Less about Pisces 16, for all the wrong reasons. The Descendent seems to me a highlighted and important axis in my chart, so I should spend as much time with that symbol.
So... I have no time to say anything about that at the moment except for that I'll be really interested to see how this thread pans out.
Issa I'd love to actually have a conversation with you about these two symbols and how you see them manifesting in your life. Maybe it could be mutually helpful?
Phoenix, I've noticed a few times that both you and piercetheviel (at least, maybe others as well) have noted that the Asc = who, the Des = where to, the IC = why and the MC = how. I also gather this is from Dane R., is that right??
Is this the wrong forum to ask you to say more about that... Or maybe point us to where Dane has a discussion of it?
So... I have no time to say anything about that at the moment except for that I'll be really interested to see how this thread pans out.
Issa I'd love to actually have a conversation with you about these two symbols and how you see them manifesting in your life. Maybe it could be mutually helpful?
Phoenix, I've noticed a few times that both you and piercetheviel (at least, maybe others as well) have noted that the Asc = who, the Des = where to, the IC = why and the MC = how. I also gather this is from Dane R., is that right??
Is this the wrong forum to ask you to say more about that... Or maybe point us to where Dane has a discussion of it?
Last edited:
Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
Hi Birch Dragon,
This application of the axis was i believe ascertained by piercethevale from some notes origionally given by Mr.Rudhyar.
you can read Rudhyars chapter titled "the cross and the star" here:
http://www.mindfire.ca/An Astrological Mandala/An Astrological Mandala - The Cross and the Star.htm
Piercethevale expounded on that concept, making the distinction that the attributuon of mc as the why and ic as the how was the mundane representation of the mc/ic axis. spiritually, the mc represents how and the ic represents why. (You might want to ask him to expound on how he came about this conclusion based on rudhyars findings, but i would suggest that the spiritual way is often reverse what is commonplace and ptv does mention that the sabian symbols progress in a spiritual manner backwards through the zodiac starting at virgo 30 and ending at libra 1 )
i expounded on this even further by noting that the axis can activate BOTH ways, coexistantly. Not necessarily one or the other (spiritual or mundane) at any time but both in harmony. This kinda relates back to issas asc symbol as there is a unity in the opposing forces of any polarity. (And ptv does seem to agree with this.)
But for clarity sake as far as interpereting your natal chart, it is most relevant and helpful to apply the mc to how and ic to why...
Hope this helps.
This application of the axis was i believe ascertained by piercethevale from some notes origionally given by Mr.Rudhyar.
you can read Rudhyars chapter titled "the cross and the star" here:
http://www.mindfire.ca/An Astrological Mandala/An Astrological Mandala - The Cross and the Star.htm
Piercethevale expounded on that concept, making the distinction that the attributuon of mc as the why and ic as the how was the mundane representation of the mc/ic axis. spiritually, the mc represents how and the ic represents why. (You might want to ask him to expound on how he came about this conclusion based on rudhyars findings, but i would suggest that the spiritual way is often reverse what is commonplace and ptv does mention that the sabian symbols progress in a spiritual manner backwards through the zodiac starting at virgo 30 and ending at libra 1 )
i expounded on this even further by noting that the axis can activate BOTH ways, coexistantly. Not necessarily one or the other (spiritual or mundane) at any time but both in harmony. This kinda relates back to issas asc symbol as there is a unity in the opposing forces of any polarity. (And ptv does seem to agree with this.)
But for clarity sake as far as interpereting your natal chart, it is most relevant and helpful to apply the mc to how and ic to why...
Hope this helps.
Last edited:
Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
btw, i sure am lucky to be a recipient of your free time right now! I hope that it feels like a circuit of recognition or that i can return the favor. Please feel free to pm me anytime. Not sure of the protocol, aqui, but just to make sure.
thank you. i am happy to be of service especially with sharing something i am so passionate about.
so no worries, i am definitely getting much out of this exchange.Conjunct means next to each other. as far as parts go, i use an orb of about only 1 degree max, for planets and chart axis i will extend it to 8 degrees in a natal, 4 degrees for synastry between 2 people, and 2 or 3 for transits.
You sound like a very deep person and i can totally relate to the sensitivity/receptivity. sometimes my heart nearly leaps out of my chest during my pastors sermons. (I also take things more symbollically and have unorthodox viewpoints about religion, being more of the mind that all religions flow into one... that everything flows into one actually.)
You asked about tying the sabian symbols into your planetary aspects so lets look at your major "harsh" configuration and that is the tsquare between saturn jupiter and moon.
We can say a few things about this configuration just by knowing the planets involved. Moon is your emotional response and instincts. Saturn restricts and jupiter expands and the moon is attempting to balance the two forces.
Jupiter @ 2 scorpio:
"A DELICATE BOTTLE OF PERFUME LIES BROKEN, RELEASING ITS FRAGRANCE.
KEYNOTE: The accidental nature of opportunities that impel one to break away from a past, the remembrance of which is still poignant and cherished."
So we could say that this philosophy of breaking boundaries and turning towards newness is expanded in your being.
Saturn @ 3 taurus:
"NATURAL STEPS LEAD TO A LAWN OF CLOVER IN BLOOM.
KEYNOTE: The gradual expansion of the individual consciousness after a fecundating experience."
Its funny that saturn the planet of boundaries mentions expansion of consiousness. I think now we could say that saturn retains that which gives you a sense of personal identification from new experiences.
And moon @ 1 leo:
"BLOOD RUSHES TO A MAN’S HEAD AS HIS VITAL ENERGIES ARE MOBILIZED UNDER THE SPUR OF AMBITION.
KEYNOTE: An irruption of bio-psychic energies into the ego-controlled field of consciousness."
So we could say that a receptivity towards new ideas and concepts retain personal worth in your psyche, resulting in a dramatic eruption of energy.
Id say this combo of symbols does go a bit in explaining the nature of your response toward empowering experiences.
issajakes
Member
Birch Dragon,
I will try all 4. This is pure intuition as i am New to this.
IC~ 7 Sagittarius (i believe) Why: CUPID KNOCKS AT THE DOOR OF A HUMAN HEART.
i offer a poem i wrote a couple years ago, it's source something that i am just now emerging as from a chrysalis:
Love
the Word itself
staggered out & lay
disemboweled
in the gravel road
bloodmoney
for his own
god
before He knew
the arrows of His wings
that the splatter of stars
are horde upon horde
of hungry souls
He said he'd rather
a rank sleep
in wolfskin cloak
farm trucks here
on the rise come fast
and visibility is meager
but these headlights stop
confounded idle
and round in the ditch
scintillant taillights
in a spoor of
dust
so the Word
rising did not give
& did not die but
each Letter
remains in exile
@ the dark edge of every
headstrong lie
Vowels vascular
between Ground & Sluice
patient for the eloquent (eager)
vagabond
Time
I guess what i would say is that i discovered (consciously that is) in my early twenties that i am in love with the world in a way that one might expect to be only with one other. This has brought me to much transformational heartache~Rebirth.
MC 7 Gemini (i believe) How:A WELL WITH BUCKET AND ROPE UNDER THE SHADE OF MAJESTIC TREES.
I have just now looked at these two symbols to answer your question. So. I am a poet. When i write i do feel as if i am hauling up water from the Well. I also feel as if my writing is a dialogue with the numinous, that i am at best, in reverence and humility, it's agent and vessel and my words are an attempt to speak that truth. This does mean that i am not an academic and also that i rarely write (anymore) a poem that seems to fit easily in the slot of narration. I have responded to the question of my lack of punctuation and capitalization with: these poems began before the page and meander beyond it, i shall not hinder them. Also, while i do believe technology has it's place, i do not believe that there is any mastery over matter (Mother). Rather i would endeavor to a mastery that recognizes, embraces, praises, cultivates the inherent worth of all things. I am coming to terms with how this puts me at odds with a money making society. I believe my challenge truly is to engage the world with my talents and trust that matter (Mother) will take care of me (the vessel).
I'm realizing that i must make dinner. I am very open to having this conversation, love to hear your feedback, questions, and own experiences, and i'm fine with it taking place in this post unless you or Phoenix think it better served somewhere else. I'm certainly down with with sharing it at large so that anything that might inspire anyone else on their way or to contribute is available. Having said that, i'm down with pm or a different post.
to be continued, eh? It's very satisfying for me to be putting this all together. I hope it truly can be mutually beneficial.
issa
I will try all 4. This is pure intuition as i am New to this.
IC~ 7 Sagittarius (i believe) Why: CUPID KNOCKS AT THE DOOR OF A HUMAN HEART.
i offer a poem i wrote a couple years ago, it's source something that i am just now emerging as from a chrysalis:
Love
the Word itself
staggered out & lay
disemboweled
in the gravel road
bloodmoney
for his own
god
before He knew
the arrows of His wings
that the splatter of stars
are horde upon horde
of hungry souls
He said he'd rather
a rank sleep
in wolfskin cloak
farm trucks here
on the rise come fast
and visibility is meager
but these headlights stop
confounded idle
and round in the ditch
scintillant taillights
in a spoor of
dust
so the Word
rising did not give
& did not die but
each Letter
remains in exile
@ the dark edge of every
headstrong lie
Vowels vascular
between Ground & Sluice
patient for the eloquent (eager)
vagabond
Time
I guess what i would say is that i discovered (consciously that is) in my early twenties that i am in love with the world in a way that one might expect to be only with one other. This has brought me to much transformational heartache~Rebirth.
MC 7 Gemini (i believe) How:A WELL WITH BUCKET AND ROPE UNDER THE SHADE OF MAJESTIC TREES.
I have just now looked at these two symbols to answer your question. So. I am a poet. When i write i do feel as if i am hauling up water from the Well. I also feel as if my writing is a dialogue with the numinous, that i am at best, in reverence and humility, it's agent and vessel and my words are an attempt to speak that truth. This does mean that i am not an academic and also that i rarely write (anymore) a poem that seems to fit easily in the slot of narration. I have responded to the question of my lack of punctuation and capitalization with: these poems began before the page and meander beyond it, i shall not hinder them. Also, while i do believe technology has it's place, i do not believe that there is any mastery over matter (Mother). Rather i would endeavor to a mastery that recognizes, embraces, praises, cultivates the inherent worth of all things. I am coming to terms with how this puts me at odds with a money making society. I believe my challenge truly is to engage the world with my talents and trust that matter (Mother) will take care of me (the vessel).
I'm realizing that i must make dinner. I am very open to having this conversation, love to hear your feedback, questions, and own experiences, and i'm fine with it taking place in this post unless you or Phoenix think it better served somewhere else. I'm certainly down with with sharing it at large so that anything that might inspire anyone else on their way or to contribute is available. Having said that, i'm down with pm or a different post.
to be continued, eh? It's very satisfying for me to be putting this all together. I hope it truly can be mutually beneficial.
issa
issajakes
Member
...ok so, i realize that in the rush of all this new information i didn't quite understand your question correctly Birch Dragon. Lo Ciento.
Virgo 16, your Ascendant & my South Node. Pisces 16, your Descendant & my North Node
Asc = who, the Des = where to, the IC = why and the MC = how.
And the way i've understood the NN is that it is the soul's path or Where the soul is heading, the SN is where the soul has been, feels comfortable, is the soul's foundation upon which the NN journey is built. I believe i read a Jung quote somewhere lately that referred to the SN as the gold in the shadow that one must access to 'fund' the voyage to the NN.
I guess i'm still a little confused about the difference between the Descendant and the NN. the difference between the Ascendant and the SN seems more clear. (help Phoenix?) Perhaps i'm still trying to wrap my mind around my SN being on my Ascendant.
So. My thoughts on how i experience Virgo 16 as my SN symbol-
IN THE ZOO, CHILDREN ARE BROUGHT FACE TO FACE WITH AN ORANG-UTANG.
KEYNOTE: A direct confrontation with the "wild" power of primordial nature within oneself.
I have many therapists in my family and so as a pretty young kid i began getting therapy. At first it was my father who brought me but later it was by my own initiation. It took me 11 different therapists of many walks to find a place that felt like would help me. I started in an adolescent group when i was fourteen and continued for five years, once a week. I also did individual therapy once a week during this time. Much of what i was needing to process was a very primal anger that had presented in my life in many ways. With the help of my group mates and the two therapists I went about systematically digging and facing as many shadows as i could. This sort of self analysis is very much my foundation. It is something that i have continued pretty much without ceasing since that time. It is something that i tend to facilitate & catalyze in and with anyone remotely close to me. Of course i have my many moments of weakness, but i do tend to view hidden motives and energies objectively in the sense that they are not bad, they are just unconscious and will wreak havoc until we 'lead them out' as the symbol says. Jung's concept of shadow for instance is something that i understand as something just about to break into consciousness from the wellspring of the unconscious. If we allow our fears to dictate how we deal with these shadows (which are constantly flowing upward) we tend to react to them unconsciously which presents then as a pathology~we hurt others or ourselves or both in ways that seem beyond our control. The shadow unrecognized for what it is becomes monstrous. I struggle a little with terms like 'degenerate remnants' & 'original sin' but i also recognize that these are metaphors.
So i guess i would say that this/these skill/talents do seem like my gold. This gold has led me out, so to speak, to a time just at the close of my Saturn return when i was forced to realize that i could no longer depend upon it as my sole MO. First it was an emotional trauma that my gift for analysis could not master and i found myself on my knees. Something carried me. Later this...presence presented after some exercise and meditation as a revelation. I call this revelation the Empty Vessel. I perceive of it as that from which we have sprung and that to which we shall return. And by what force did(do) i, does existence, spring? Simply a desire to be. I call this the Divine Beyond Within. Sounds to me like the subjective strength mentioned in my NN symbol, Pisces 16: IN THE QUIET OF HIS STUDY A CREATIVE INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCES A FLOW OF INSPIRATION.
KEYNOTE: Reliance upon one's inner source of inspiration or guidance.
The Divine Beyond Within feels like a personal experience of the Numinous. It is not mine, rather, i belong to it. It is the urge or drive back of the flow of inspiration that speaks with my hands and voice.
So.
I'd love to hear your thoughts/feelings about how these symbols manifest in you as well. And now that i have actually attempted to answer your actual question i'd love to hear your word on my experiences.
And what do you think Phoenix?
Virgo 16, your Ascendant & my South Node. Pisces 16, your Descendant & my North Node
Asc = who, the Des = where to, the IC = why and the MC = how.
And the way i've understood the NN is that it is the soul's path or Where the soul is heading, the SN is where the soul has been, feels comfortable, is the soul's foundation upon which the NN journey is built. I believe i read a Jung quote somewhere lately that referred to the SN as the gold in the shadow that one must access to 'fund' the voyage to the NN.
I guess i'm still a little confused about the difference between the Descendant and the NN. the difference between the Ascendant and the SN seems more clear. (help Phoenix?) Perhaps i'm still trying to wrap my mind around my SN being on my Ascendant.
So. My thoughts on how i experience Virgo 16 as my SN symbol-
IN THE ZOO, CHILDREN ARE BROUGHT FACE TO FACE WITH AN ORANG-UTANG.
KEYNOTE: A direct confrontation with the "wild" power of primordial nature within oneself.
I have many therapists in my family and so as a pretty young kid i began getting therapy. At first it was my father who brought me but later it was by my own initiation. It took me 11 different therapists of many walks to find a place that felt like would help me. I started in an adolescent group when i was fourteen and continued for five years, once a week. I also did individual therapy once a week during this time. Much of what i was needing to process was a very primal anger that had presented in my life in many ways. With the help of my group mates and the two therapists I went about systematically digging and facing as many shadows as i could. This sort of self analysis is very much my foundation. It is something that i have continued pretty much without ceasing since that time. It is something that i tend to facilitate & catalyze in and with anyone remotely close to me. Of course i have my many moments of weakness, but i do tend to view hidden motives and energies objectively in the sense that they are not bad, they are just unconscious and will wreak havoc until we 'lead them out' as the symbol says. Jung's concept of shadow for instance is something that i understand as something just about to break into consciousness from the wellspring of the unconscious. If we allow our fears to dictate how we deal with these shadows (which are constantly flowing upward) we tend to react to them unconsciously which presents then as a pathology~we hurt others or ourselves or both in ways that seem beyond our control. The shadow unrecognized for what it is becomes monstrous. I struggle a little with terms like 'degenerate remnants' & 'original sin' but i also recognize that these are metaphors.
So i guess i would say that this/these skill/talents do seem like my gold. This gold has led me out, so to speak, to a time just at the close of my Saturn return when i was forced to realize that i could no longer depend upon it as my sole MO. First it was an emotional trauma that my gift for analysis could not master and i found myself on my knees. Something carried me. Later this...presence presented after some exercise and meditation as a revelation. I call this revelation the Empty Vessel. I perceive of it as that from which we have sprung and that to which we shall return. And by what force did(do) i, does existence, spring? Simply a desire to be. I call this the Divine Beyond Within. Sounds to me like the subjective strength mentioned in my NN symbol, Pisces 16: IN THE QUIET OF HIS STUDY A CREATIVE INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCES A FLOW OF INSPIRATION.
KEYNOTE: Reliance upon one's inner source of inspiration or guidance.
The Divine Beyond Within feels like a personal experience of the Numinous. It is not mine, rather, i belong to it. It is the urge or drive back of the flow of inspiration that speaks with my hands and voice.
So.
I'd love to hear your thoughts/feelings about how these symbols manifest in you as well. And now that i have actually attempted to answer your actual question
i'd love to hear your word on my experiences. And what do you think Phoenix?
Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
Issajakes,
Nice poem
I only ever remember Jung mentioning astrology in very vague passing... could you perhaps point me in a direction to read more? Its funny because i never quite heard anyone say that about the sn, i thought it was pretty much just me, but then again no idea is truly original.
Regarding the difference between the nn and the descendant... the desc represents who you are becoming in this lifetime. there really is no getting around it, it is one of the four focal points of the soul. The nn represents a POTENTIAL area of growth and balance. it is not inherent, one has to strive for it.
that is why having nn conj desc and mars represents the increased likelihood of spiritual growth and success. mars and desc seem to put that "area of potential" into focus.
I happen to have mars conjunct my sn. (Actually, nn is in a grand cross with neptune and chiron, too.) this is what lead me to the realization that embracing the sn leads to the north node. (Rather than the typical interpretation that sn is negative and should be shed.)
Nice poem
I only ever remember Jung mentioning astrology in very vague passing... could you perhaps point me in a direction to read more? Its funny because i never quite heard anyone say that about the sn, i thought it was pretty much just me, but then again no idea is truly original.
Regarding the difference between the nn and the descendant... the desc represents who you are becoming in this lifetime. there really is no getting around it, it is one of the four focal points of the soul. The nn represents a POTENTIAL area of growth and balance. it is not inherent, one has to strive for it.
that is why having nn conj desc and mars represents the increased likelihood of spiritual growth and success. mars and desc seem to put that "area of potential" into focus.
I happen to have mars conjunct my sn. (Actually, nn is in a grand cross with neptune and chiron, too.) this is what lead me to the realization that embracing the sn leads to the north node. (Rather than the typical interpretation that sn is negative and should be shed.)
Last edited:
issajakes
Member
Thanks Phoenix!
I believe it was this site: http://northnodeastrology.blogspot.com/2008/03/pisces-north-node.html
where i most recently read Jung quoted as saying that the SN was the gold in one's shadow. And while she references it in this link, i swear she actually quoted him somewhere else that i'm not able to find now.
When i read Jung, usually it's sporadic: pick up one of the books i have and read for a while which then puts me on some new creative path. Maybe in the Quiet of My Study someday soon i will actually read him more systematically. But when i read about the gold in the shadow it was as if i had read it before somewhere. So when you referenced it, even though i don't think you used the word 'gold', this concept truly seemed to crystalize in my mind.
Thanks for delineating between the inherent nature of the Descendant and the potential nature of the NN. Both symbols ring very true for me. It's lovely to feel this validation as well as the support (toward NN).
Dreamt last night of a talking white mare that i'd share with you in another venue if you were interested. Seemed very much connected to this new flourish of growth and understanding as well as specifically to my Venus symbol, the 'Beautiful Necessity'.
I'm very interested in how you experience some of our similarities: my mars pisces & your part of soul for instance. If you'd be willing to share. I do feel as if the symbols speak for themselves quite eloquently but i have also really benefited from your bits of interpretation. For instance: "Its funny that saturn the planet of boundaries mentions expansion of consiousness. I think now we could say that saturn retains that which gives you a sense of personal identification from new experiences." This validates how i have been coming to terms with all my Saturn influence. That he is a task master disciplining me to mastery rather than just a negative influence. This is also similar to your interpretation of SN, oui?
Oh, and what about your ac-dc line being right along my jupiter- saturn opposition? Would you be willing to share with me how you understand/experience this axis so that i might understand my opposition better? I don't think it's corny at all btw, to think of your sn as "rebirth of love"! (reference my poem, eh?). I probably shouldn't ask but imagine you are an Anastasia or something of the like. I am beginning to see how the mandala of one's chart is made up of this series of axes (which cause also squares and trines and sextiles) so that an opposition is similar to a conjunct is similar to the ac-dc or NN-SN axes in their actions. True? What was it you said: "...noting that the axis can activate BOTH ways, coexistantly. Not necessarily one or the other (spiritual or mundane) at any time but both in harmony. This kinda relates back to issas asc symbol as there is a unity in the opposing forces of any polarity." And now that i think of it, my dream was of a new home in an alpine valley, very joyous but also with a sense of Saudade or something being surrendered in order that this new way proceed.
Part of soul and part of fortune too form an axis, no?!
This is probably for another venue too but i must say, my sun symbol feels a tad disturbing but maybe it is softened by conjunct Venus?
issa
I believe it was this site: http://northnodeastrology.blogspot.com/2008/03/pisces-north-node.html
where i most recently read Jung quoted as saying that the SN was the gold in one's shadow. And while she references it in this link, i swear she actually quoted him somewhere else that i'm not able to find now.
When i read Jung, usually it's sporadic: pick up one of the books i have and read for a while which then puts me on some new creative path. Maybe in the Quiet of My Study someday soon i will actually read him more systematically. But when i read about the gold in the shadow it was as if i had read it before somewhere. So when you referenced it, even though i don't think you used the word 'gold', this concept truly seemed to crystalize in my mind.
Thanks for delineating between the inherent nature of the Descendant and the potential nature of the NN. Both symbols ring very true for me. It's lovely to feel this validation as well as the support (toward NN).
Dreamt last night of a talking white mare that i'd share with you in another venue if you were interested. Seemed very much connected to this new flourish of growth and understanding as well as specifically to my Venus symbol, the 'Beautiful Necessity'.
I'm very interested in how you experience some of our similarities: my mars pisces & your part of soul for instance. If you'd be willing to share. I do feel as if the symbols speak for themselves quite eloquently but i have also really benefited from your bits of interpretation. For instance: "Its funny that saturn the planet of boundaries mentions expansion of consiousness. I think now we could say that saturn retains that which gives you a sense of personal identification from new experiences." This validates how i have been coming to terms with all my Saturn influence. That he is a task master disciplining me to mastery rather than just a negative influence. This is also similar to your interpretation of SN, oui?
Oh, and what about your ac-dc line being right along my jupiter- saturn opposition? Would you be willing to share with me how you understand/experience this axis so that i might understand my opposition better? I don't think it's corny at all btw, to think of your sn as "rebirth of love"! (reference my poem, eh?). I probably shouldn't ask but imagine you are an Anastasia or something of the like.
I am beginning to see how the mandala of one's chart is made up of this series of axes (which cause also squares and trines and sextiles) so that an opposition is similar to a conjunct is similar to the ac-dc or NN-SN axes in their actions. True? What was it you said: "...noting that the axis can activate BOTH ways, coexistantly. Not necessarily one or the other (spiritual or mundane) at any time but both in harmony. This kinda relates back to issas asc symbol as there is a unity in the opposing forces of any polarity." And now that i think of it, my dream was of a new home in an alpine valley, very joyous but also with a sense of Saudade or something being surrendered in order that this new way proceed. Part of soul and part of fortune too form an axis, no?!
This is probably for another venue too but i must say, my sun symbol feels a tad disturbing but maybe it is softened by conjunct Venus?
issa
Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
Issa,
I've got a full evening tonight and morning tomorrow so i will try to squeeze some time to respond to you in more length...
i just wanted to say, I can tell you have much thirst for knowledge and a willingness to face the truth... (facing the void.... theres a symbol about that... i will have to look that up at some point. i have an arabic part there and i wonder if you might too....)
I really admire that and am drawn towards your enthusiastic and deep demeanor... i am very glad we "met".. it wasn't a coincidence either, i am sure of that. I've been going through a major "spiritual awakening" lately. . we will have to talk more about it in private some time.
It all comes together. God is GOOD
Shoot me a pm about your dream if you wish. I've had some interesting dreams and even waking visions too lately as neptune has been transiting over my part of soul (and your mars!) recently... we shall talk some more later
I've got a full evening tonight and morning tomorrow so i will try to squeeze some time to respond to you in more length...
i just wanted to say, I can tell you have much thirst for knowledge and a willingness to face the truth... (facing the void.... theres a symbol about that... i will have to look that up at some point. i have an arabic part there and i wonder if you might too....)
I really admire that and am drawn towards your enthusiastic and deep demeanor... i am very glad we "met".. it wasn't a coincidence either, i am sure of that. I've been going through a major "spiritual awakening" lately. . we will have to talk more about it in private some time.
It all comes together. God is GOOD
Shoot me a pm about your dream if you wish. I've had some interesting dreams and even waking visions too lately as neptune has been transiting over my part of soul (and your mars!) recently... we shall talk some more later