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  #1  
Unread 06-25-2015, 02:25 AM
as249x as249x is offline
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Question 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

Let me elaborate on my observation of 12th house Suns being Psychopaths.
I don't mean to generalize when I say anyone with a 12th house sun is a psychopath.

I came across a YouTube Astrologer Kapiel Raaj who covered information about the sun in the 12th house.
I also have read many articles about this placement.
Kapiel mentioned someone with this placement could , "be an ego or personality of someone who is like a killer, a murderer or psychopath..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSaaKY-sI7A

Aside from that, articles I've read have mentioned that the relationship with the father is often sacrificed, emotionally or physically through the loss of the father.
I mention this because Michael C Hall, the actor for the TV series Dexter has his sun in the 12th house. Michael C Hall lost his father at the young age of 11 (Sun Square Saturn in 12th house)

By no means am I saying he is a real life psychopath. I do find rather interesting however, is that his character Dexter is a serial killer. A psychopath. If you have seen Dexter, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Not only that, but my brother has his sun in the 12th house. I mention him because he also had father difficulties. Not by death, but emotional death. Father was not at all a father figure.

My last point is that even though my brother would never act on it, He has displayed psychopathic thoughts and fantasies.

Anyway, that was my observation. I wonder if anyone can connect the dots or have seen similarities with what I just said.

Thanks for reading.

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  #2  
Unread 06-25-2015, 03:11 AM
Julian Julian is offline
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

Quote:
Originally Posted by as249x View Post
Let me elaborate on my observation of 12th house Suns being Psychopaths.
I don't mean to generalize when I say anyone with a 12th house sun is a psychopath.

I came across a YouTube Astrologer Kapiel Raaj who covered information about the sun in the 12th house.
I also have read many articles about this placement.
Kapiel mentioned someone with this placement could , "be an ego or personality of someone who is like a killer, a murderer or psychopath..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSaaKY-sI7A

Aside from that, articles I've read have mentioned that the relationship with the father is often sacrificed, emotionally or physically through the loss of the father.
I mention this because Michael C Hall, the actor for the TV series Dexter has his sun in the 12th house. Michael C Hall lost his father at the young age of 11 (Sun Square Saturn in 12th house)

By no means am I saying he is a real life psychopath. I do find rather interesting however, is that his character Dexter is a serial killer. A psychopath. If you have seen Dexter, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Not only that, but my brother has his sun in the 12th house. I mention him because he also had father difficulties. Not by death, but emotional death. Father was not at all a father figure.

My last point is that even though my brother would never act on it, He has displayed psychopathic thoughts and fantasies.

Anyway, that was my observation. I wonder if anyone can connect the dots or have seen similarities with what I just said.

Thanks for reading.
Well that's a pretty stupid statement. How many people have been born with a Sun in the twelfth house? Let's count from say, 1915 or from 100 years ago. Approximately 360,000 babies are born each day. The approximate amount of babies born with a Sun in the 12th is 1/12 out of 360,000. That's 30,000. Multiply that by 365 days and then by 100 (the number of years). That's 1,095,000,000. So by your logic 1 billion people counting from 100 years ago have been psychopaths or have had a bad relationship with their fathers.
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  #3  
Unread 06-25-2015, 03:37 AM
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

just a note in general.

houses ,like signs do not exist in isolations. house are a function of the growth experiences in the house before. a 12th house must be seen as the assimilation of all the culturral experiences that occurred from the 10 house to the 12th. the preponderance of the 12 th house is because all the cultural experiences coming before them weigh on a 12th house sun.it is a house of limitation as circumstance occurring before one is born are played out on 12th house sun.

the Dial of Houses by dane rudhyar gives a good view of the interdependence of all the houses.

rahu
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Unread 06-25-2015, 03:37 AM
Slenkar Slenkar is offline
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

When listening to kapiel you have to look at your vedic chart.

There could be many psychopaths in the world as psychopath doesn't equal murderer.

Also the 12th house has many meanings.
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Unread 06-25-2015, 04:06 AM
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

I would have to say that being a 12th house sun gives you strong psychic and intuitive powers which can unfortunately overwhelm you. When you are around people who are crazy, and you are the only on who can see it, you can start to go crazy yourself. Because you are the only one who can see the craziness around you, other people start calling you crazy. Therefore it is a strength if you know how to use it well, but probably best not to expose.

For example, I use my powers of intuitively understanding my mother in laws' crazy motives. If I make my statements public, she smiles in my face whilst other people think im nuts, when in truth im portraying what she is thinking and wanting to do. So instead, I decide to use my intuition and then take action by being one step ahead of her and catching her before she does it. Then her an I have this internal realisation, and no one else knows about it.
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Unread 06-25-2015, 05:14 AM
Julian Julian is offline
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

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Originally Posted by Abby83 View Post
I would have to say that being a 12th house sun gives you strong psychic and intuitive powers which can unfortunately overwhelm you. When you are around people who are crazy, and you are the only on who can see it, you can start to go crazy yourself. Because you are the only one who can see the craziness around you, other people start calling you crazy. Therefore it is a strength if you know how to use it well, but probably best not to expose.

For example, I use my powers of intuitively understanding my mother in laws' crazy motives. If I make my statements public, she smiles in my face whilst other people think im nuts, when in truth im portraying what she is thinking and wanting to do. So instead, I decide to use my intuition and then take action by being one step ahead of her and catching her before she does it. Then her an I have this internal realisation, and no one else knows about it.
I disagree. I think that a 12th house Sun just gives a basic mindset.

When you have the Sun, which represents your father, your ego, the desire to express oneself and put it in the twelfth house which is related to spirituality, escapism, imagination and on the bad side hospitals, prisons, and mental insanity, you get someone who is shy.


Let me go further into details. The function of the Sun is to express and to feel like a king. A Sun in the 12th house has difficulty to express itself because it's in the house that isn't here. It's as if the Sun was in another reality. The person will be imaginative and maybe spiritual. It denotes escapism, day-dreaming... etc. Although you can take a look at what sign the Sun is in and what's the ruler of the Sun and what is it doing.


And that would be the natal chart for someone whose only planet was the Sun and it was placed in the 12th house. If an astrologer is provided with a natal chart then I assure you the astrologer in question would do a much better job to know the details of the natal horoscope.


Looking at the state of things related to the twelfth house and Pisces would be useful aswell. In this case look at what your Jupiter, Neptune and Venus are doing, but especially the one that's most related to the question. Say, if you want to know about your psychic intuition and spirituality, look at Neptune. If you want to know about your compassion and generosity, see where Jupiter is located. On the artistic side, see Venus.

Last edited by Julian; 06-25-2015 at 05:20 AM.
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  #7  
Unread 07-02-2015, 10:40 PM
NShane NShane is offline
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

I'm not psycho and I have a 12th house Sun in Taurus. However, I may have done some questionable things.
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Unread 07-02-2015, 10:56 PM
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

Yea I have the Sun conj. Saturn in my 12th house Capricorn. Its def. true about the Daddy issues but I have 5 planets in the 12th and I'm not a psychopathy.... well at least not yet.
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Unread 07-03-2015, 02:10 AM
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

Some 12th house associations:
  • Hard to Access
  • Harbors self-destructive tendencies
  • Meditation, spirituality
  • Crowd mentality
  • May indicate a lack of concrete direction
  • Prisons, incarceration, mental hospitals
  • Mental illness
  • Deep seated fears
  • Deep seated psychological urges and drives
  • Imagination and dreams
  • Occult activities, secret groups, secret societies
  • Hidden enemies
  • Secrets
  • Foreign lands
  • Fame (Politicians and celebs commonly have this Sun in 12th placement)

Cadent houses are associated with losses, which is why we often see many modern authors talk about the 12th house forcing one to let things go. If you have no more belongings, then you really have nothing else to lose.

Here lists the criteria of what it takes to be labeled a psychopath, and all are pretty severe, complex, and involves more than looking at a single house out of context of the chart: http://data.psych.udel.edu/abelcher/...ur,%201991.pdf (It's not the latest version, but it's to give you a hint what you're looking for)

Sun in the 12th is not so bad cuz We are in the 21st century here y'all! Nothing is impossible anymore.
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  #10  
Unread 07-03-2015, 01:56 PM
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

I have Sun on the Cusp of the 12th House Square to Neptune as ruler from 11th.

Significantly was, my friends was never be Germans i'm totally an Enemy with Germans mentality
Strong Wishes with Sun / Neptune...Moon in Pisces in 5th House - Sun - Moon as ruler from 10th (this Nation)...i'm Born with, maybe its Karmic, its always actually specialy with my Pluto trine Sun (Virgo - Mercury) transit, since 5 Years.

Most of my Family Escape to Canada & New Jersey in the 1950s But never meet, dont know his Names or something like that. Only my Mother stay here and later in the 1970s i'm Born and she gets my biggest Enemy...All her Kids (3) Hate her, thats significant for Pisces Moon...she Teach us having no Mercy and she become no Mercy.

but I'm Very good with Southerner like Italians, Spanish, Turk, Arabian or South Americans, i like this mentality, its more wild and i love the wilderness of nature...this behavior gets strong with Pluto trine to my Sun / Neptune + reading the Bhagavad Gita.

The first 25 Years of my life a have a strong Empathy, but my Sun is in Virgo and virgo distinguish in useless or not useless, and i decided for me empathy is useless and no longer feel Empathy, maybe this can leads to Psychopathic tendencies.

[deleted trolling comments - Moderator]

07.09.1976 /// 08:10 Hamburg Germany

Last edited by wilsontc; 08-11-2015 at 06:33 PM.
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  #11  
Unread 07-21-2015, 07:09 PM
ABM ABM is offline
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

Quote:
Originally Posted by as249x View Post
Let me elaborate on my observation of 12th house Suns being Psychopaths.
I don't mean to generalize when I say anyone with a 12th house sun is a psychopath.

I came across a YouTube Astrologer Kapiel Raaj who covered information about the sun in the 12th house.
I also have read many articles about this placement.
Kapiel mentioned someone with this placement could , "be an ego or personality of someone who is like a killer, a murderer or psychopath..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSaaKY-sI7A
No, it doesn't. This sort of thing cannot be pinned down to one placement. Disagree completely.
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  #12  
Unread 07-21-2015, 08:09 PM
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

I watched a video once that said Sun in 12th can do bad things because they feel ignored by the world and by people and they do things to get attention... I do not think a 12th house sun ALONE suggests psychopathy.. I do not even think a stellium there would suggest it. For psycopathy there needs to be a combination of very rough aspects with sun and mercury to the malefics but also a combination of environmental and lifestyle factors - someone could have a lot of rough aspects and 12th house placements but had a fairly good upbringing and are not exactly "suffering" so those are less likely to be psychopaths. Then there could be someone who doesn't have any 12th house planets and had an abusive and horrible upbringing and is more likely to be unstable. I feel anyone with any sun placement can be any way - Sun in 12th just feels very blocked. The answer lies in the aspects. Sun placement alone does not suggest it.

Last edited by ravenscall; 07-21-2015 at 08:12 PM.
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  #13  
Unread 07-21-2015, 08:17 PM
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

12th house suns care a lot for the suffering and therefore are considered weak and are used and treated poorly simply because they care. It's the house before the 1st and is the reason why the 12th person decides enough is enough and starts to put him or herself first. It is true that they become ignored or come last in situations (not sports related, but say for being recognised in any way) because the 12th is the last house. Of course transits and progressed planets can change things, especially if they transit the first house. I have to admit I love my first house. Currently have T Saturn in 1st and progressed Mercury in 1st so im roaring back like a tiger at all those people who took sadistic advantage of my self sacrificing niceness over the past years. I Gotta tell ya, it feels good.
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  #14  
Unread 08-07-2015, 10:40 PM
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

12th house Sun placement cannot be any more "psycopathic" than any other aspect in a chart

The dangers of singling out one element in a myriad in a chart!
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Unread 08-08-2015, 04:20 AM
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

Quote:
Originally Posted by as249x View Post
Let me elaborate on my observation of 12th house Suns being Psychopaths.
I don't mean to generalize when I say anyone with a 12th house sun is a psychopath.

I came across a YouTube Astrologer Kapiel Raaj who covered information about the sun in the 12th house.
I also have read many articles about this placement.
Kapiel mentioned someone with this placement could , "be an ego or personality of someone who is like a killer, a murderer or psychopath..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSaaKY-sI7A

Aside from that, articles I've read have mentioned that the relationship with the father is often sacrificed, emotionally or physically through the loss of the father.
I mention this because Michael C Hall, the actor for the TV series Dexter has his sun in the 12th house. Michael C Hall lost his father at the young age of 11 (Sun Square Saturn in 12th house)

By no means am I saying he is a real life psychopath. I do find rather interesting however, is that his character Dexter is a serial killer. A psychopath. If you have seen Dexter, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Not only that, but my brother has his sun in the 12th house. I mention him because he also had father difficulties. Not by death, but emotional death. Father was not at all a father figure.

My last point is that even though my brother would never act on it, He has displayed psychopathic thoughts and fantasies.

Anyway, that was my observation. I wonder if anyone can connect the dots or have seen similarities with what I just said.

Thanks for reading.
The psychopath lacks empathy. And so the 12th House would be the last one to consider.
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Unread 08-08-2015, 08:20 AM
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

I have 12th and I'm not a psychopath ...
I like the silence, I need to be alone to recharge my batteries.
I am a very sensitive, and besides this difference, I felt very early.
I am a person who tends to fade.
Actually, for me, this sun in 12th, one must succeed in breaking his prison ...
After, you should always look a natal chart as a whole.
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Unread 08-11-2015, 03:12 AM
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

"Actually, for me, this sun in 12th, one must succeed in breaking his prison"

This is the most common issue of the 12th house and Neptunian placements in general.
There's a LOT of 'working against one's own best interests'.

Being unable to see how one is hurting onesself by way of actions, addictions, fear, guilt...etc.
It's the "being unable to see" that is the 12th housee part. EVEN after it's pointed out to the person they often WILL NOT see how they are being self destructive.

So: more self destructive than "other person destructive."

That does not mean (as others have pointed out) that there is no 12th house component in the dynamic of socio and psycho pathy.

I have found the 8th house to be a dangerous place to have Malefics.

The Sun, of course, is not a Malefic. And theoretically, wherever the Sun resides SHOULD be an area of life where the person can be authentic, positive and useful.
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Unread 08-11-2015, 07:36 AM
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

"Being unable to see how one is hurting onesself by way of actions, addictions, fear, guilt...etc.
It's the "being unable to see" that is the 12th housee part. EVEN after it's pointed out to the person they often WILL NOT see how they are being self destructive."

Yes, but the hard part isn't to recognize it, but working on it.
It is as if one were to successfully transfer the sun in 1 ...
This is why I say we get him out of the prison, the shadows (like all the planets in 12th).
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Unread 08-14-2015, 12:04 AM
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

Quote:
Originally Posted by kendra View Post
"Being unable to see how one is hurting onesself by way of actions, addictions, fear, guilt...etc.
It's the "being unable to see" that is the 12th housee part. EVEN after it's pointed out to the person they often WILL NOT see how they are being self destructive."

Yes, but the hard part isn't to recognize it, but working on it.
.
The 12th house does not deny self awareness, it encourages it, and that happens through meditation and introspective contemplation in solitude and/or through healing work, the provinces of this house. This is how one can become aware of subconscious patterns of thought and behavior including the "self undoing" and karma associated with placements in the 12th.

These issues can be resolved in number of ways, but NLP and hypnotherapy address them directly, and that's what I use professionally.

Of course, careful analysis using natal astrology can also expose "unconscious" issues, and sometimes point to solutions too - if one bothers to look for those.
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Unread 08-14-2015, 09:09 AM
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

Horus, I tried Ericksonian hypnosis but it didn't work. There are many therapies ... It's not easy to find a therapy that fits.
I have not tried the NLP, there are also EFT, CBT, ACT, EMDR ... difficult to choose with many possible therapies.
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Unread 08-14-2015, 01:20 PM
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

Quote:
Originally Posted by as249x View Post

Let me elaborate on my observation of 12th house Suns being Psychopaths.
I don't mean to generalize when I say anyone with a 12th house sun is a psychopath.

I came across a YouTube Astrologer Kapiel Raaj who covered information about the sun in the 12th house.
I also have read many articles about this placement.
Kapiel mentioned someone with this placement could , "be an ego or personality of someone who is like a killer, a murderer or psychopath..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSaaKY-sI7A

Aside from that, articles I've read have mentioned that the relationship with the father is often sacrificed, emotionally or physically through the loss of the father.
I mention this because Michael C Hall, the actor for the TV series Dexter has his sun in the 12th house. Michael C Hall lost his father at the young age of 11 (Sun Square Saturn in 12th house)

By no means am I saying he is a real life psychopath. I do find rather interesting however, is that his character Dexter is a serial killer. A psychopath. If you have seen Dexter, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Not only that, but my brother has his sun in the 12th house. I mention him because he also had father difficulties. Not by death, but emotional death. Father was not at all a father figure.

My last point is that even though my brother would never act on it, He has displayed psychopathic thoughts and fantasies.

Anyway, that was my observation. I wonder if anyone can connect the dots or have seen similarities with what I just said.

Thanks for reading.
Interesting. George W Bush has 12th House sun
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Unread 08-14-2015, 04:23 PM
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

Quote:
Originally Posted by kendra View Post
Horus, I tried Ericksonian hypnosis but it didn't work. There are many therapies ... It's not easy to find a therapy that fits.
I have not tried the NLP, there are also EFT, CBT, ACT, EMDR ... difficult to choose with many possible therapies.
There's a lot to say on this topic and I don't wish to derail this thread, so you have a PM.
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Unread 08-16-2015, 09:15 PM
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

"The 12th house does not deny self awareness, it encourages it, and that happens through meditation and introspective contemplation in solitude and/or through healing work, the provinces of this house. This is how one can become aware of subconscious patterns of thought and behavior including the "self undoing" and karma associated with placements in the 12th."

UNfortunately, the number of people who GET to the state of seeking answers through meditation is a small percentage of those with 12th house energy.

We are not taught - at least in no culture I am familiar with - to meditate, contemplate, find our authentic selves - at least not as children. And in childhood is the time when the habits of a lifetime are formed.
On the contrary, we are taught to obey, conform, learn by rote, get through the next school year without embarrassing onesself or one's family, and finally become self sufficient.

So anyone who finds the path to enlightenment does so "on his own" and that is NOT the average person.
For the average person, the 12th house, if occupied (or even if it's not) is a place one does not visit, work on, or understand unless forced to by outside circumstances.
This is my experience with clients and others in my life.

One cannot escape some sort of sacrifice in our lives: and one place we can find this dynamic is the 12th house.
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Unread 08-16-2015, 10:00 PM
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin View Post
"The 12th house does not deny self awareness, it encourages it, and that happens through meditation and introspective contemplation in solitude and/or through healing work, the provinces of this house. This is how one can become aware of subconscious patterns of thought and behavior including the "self undoing" and karma associated with placements in the 12th."

UNfortunately, the number of people who GET to the state of seeking answers through meditation is a small percentage of those with 12th house energy.

We are not taught - at least in no culture I am familiar with - to meditate, contemplate, find our authentic selves - at least not as children. And in childhood is the time when the habits of a lifetime are formed.
On the contrary, we are taught to obey, conform, learn by rote, get through the next school year without embarrassing onesself or one's family, and finally become self sufficient.

So anyone who finds the path to enlightenment does so "on his own" and that is NOT the average person.
For the average person, the 12th house, if occupied (or even if it's not) is a place one does not visit, work on, or understand unless forced to by outside circumstances.
This is my experience with clients and others in my life.

One cannot escape some sort of sacrifice in our lives: and one place we can find this dynamic is the 12th house.
LIN
Well I guess you can make these rather sweeping generalizations, but there's no way of really knowing just how many people with personal planets in the 12th are meditating or contemplating their life. Contemplation simply means taking time out and thinking about things -nothing too unusual there.

Luminaries and personals in this house are predisposed to seek some solitude or isolate a little bit (or a lot). That's what I was getting at. That's because this is the karmic "doghouse" so to speak; in past lives one incurred negative karma and now they need to slow down or stop and deal with it on a different level. Some of this may be brought about externally (seemingly, though apparent external circumstances can be manifested from within) and others will have a natural inclination. I have a 12th House Moon and I absolutely need some time alone every week. I know many others with 12th House luminaries or personal planets who do the same, without being forced to do so.

As for habits, those are not only started in childhood.
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Unread 08-31-2015, 02:42 AM
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Re: 12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

It's true that I know only what 1) what I have read and studied regarding the 12th house, and 2) clients with 12 house issues which I've helped them work on (and always suggest and advise meditation, NOT comparing onesself with others and self help literature centered on these issues) and 3) my own 12 house issues and my own working on it. BUt....I'm an astrologer and I've learned thru time that delving into the 12th and getting to know it and not be afraid of the truth in it is vital to my life.

But....as Gibran says, and this is paraphrase: you can't give another your wisdom. Everyone has to find his own truth. and in order to do that you have to delve into some dark and secret places.

MY experience is that most people just don'twant to do this....most people today want some sort of instant wisdom and immediate epiphany....something totally impossible unless they're having unique multiple transits that are karmic in nature and lead them to this 'ah ha!' moment of discovery.

So it's just what I have experience with. I'm not arguing the premise.
LIN
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