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Astrology and Psychology For interesting discussions on psychological meanings and deeper implications in natal charts between members passionated by both psychology and astrology.


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  #1  
Unread 12-02-2007, 07:15 PM
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Lightbulb The Natal Charts of Famous Psychologists

I took a General Psychology course this past semester and am amazed by the almost exaggerated importance with which I regard the subject in comparison to other courses worth the same number of credits; it's not even necessarily more challenging than these other courses, for my learning style corresponds much more easily with this professor's clear and organized lecture style than with my Speech professor's much less organized style, and my grades reflect this.

Anyway, my clear preference of psychology--and my accidental discovery of Carl Jung's natal chart while searching for a topographical map of the psyche to include in my notes--has sparked my interest in examining the natal charts of famous psychologists I have studied in class in an attempt to detect possible patterns. I am certain my psychology professor would not approve of me engaging in "pseudo-psychology," but I personally have no problem combining the two subjects

I will use the data included in Astrotheme's database to begin, but please feel free to cite other sources of natal data and include the names of other prominent psychologists to include in this thread. I have a lot of work to finish this weekend, so unfortunately I do not have time to comb through my notes in detail to find the name of every psychologist my professor has mentioned in his lectures; there have been many, and I would eventually like to organize them by the various psychological theories they subscribed to (ex. psychodynamic theory, cognitive behavioral theory, behaviorist theory), but for now I must rely upon my memory and list the names as they come to me:

Psychodynamic Theorists:

Sigmund Freud
Anna Freud
Harry Stack Sullivan
Karen Horney
Erich Fromm

Behavioral Theorists:

John Watson
Edward Thorndike
B.F. Skinner
Albert Bandura
Ivan Petrovich Pavlov

Cognitive Behaviorists:

Albert Ellis (Note: He has Mars in Pisces, which someone brought up on another thread as being prominent in psychologists or those with mental illness; although I've found Mars in Cancer at least twice among these individuals, I haven't yet found another Mars in Pisces. Of course, there are still plenty of psychologists in history whose charts we haven't explored yet, so this is still a good indication to look for.)

Aaron Beck

Humanists:

Abraham Maslow
Carl Rogers

Of course, I can't forget Carl Jung, but I'm not exactly sure which school he belonged to.

There's also J.P. Guilford and Noam Chomsky.

I deliberated creating this thread in the Celebrity Astrology subboard or even the Vocational Astrology board so others could consult these charts to determine if they have a possible astrological influence inclining them to pursue a career in the field of psychology, but I eventually decided upon Astrology and Psychology.

Now, we've just got to find the natal data of the rest; I'm sure we can easily find the dates of birth, but the time of birth is always quite a bit trickier...

Arian Maverick

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Last edited by Arian Maverick; 12-02-2007 at 11:03 PM.
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Unread 12-02-2007, 10:33 PM
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Re: The Natal Charts of Famous Psychologists

I thought I should at least post the date of birth of the psychologists listed above who are not featured on the AstroTheme site; all of this information was derived from Wikipedia, so I cannot be certain of its accuracy, although I believe it's a good start until we can locate more respected sources.

Harry Stack Sullivan:

Quote:
Herbert "Harry" Stack Sullivan (February 21, 1892, Norwich, New York – January 14, 1949, Paris, France) was a U.S. psychiatrist whose work in psychoanalysis was based on direct and verifiable observation (versus the more abstract conceptions of the unconscious mind favored by Sigmund Freud and his disciples).


Karen Horney:

Quote:
Karen Horney (horn-eye), born Danielsen (September 16, 1885 – December 4, 1952) was a German Freudian psychoanalyst of Norwegian and Dutch descent. Her theories questioned some traditional Freudian views, particularly his theory of sexuality, as well as the instinct orientation of psychoanalysis and its genetic psychology. As such, she is often classified as Neo-Freudian.
Quote:
Karen Horney was born Karen Danielsen on September 16, 1885 in Hamburg.


John B. Watson:

Quote:
John Broadus Watson (January 9, 1878–September 25, 1958) was an American psychologist who established the psychological school of behaviorism, after doing research on animal behavior. He is known for having claimed that he could take any 12 healthy infants and, by applying behavioral techniques, create whatever kind of person he desired. He also conducted the controversial "Little Albert" experiment. Later he went on from psychology to become a popular author on child rearing, and an acclaimed contributor to the advertising industry.
Unfortunately, I could not find information about where Watson was born in this article, although it did mention that he was "raised in Greenville, South Carolina and attended Furman University."

There was a link at the bottom of the page, though, for an article titled It's All in the Upbringing, which was published by Johns Hopkins Magazine. It gave the following data:

Quote:
John Broadus Watson, born in the rural farm country of Greenville, South Carolina, was named for a local preacher.
Edward Thorndike:

Quote:
Edward Lee Thorndike (August 31, 1874 - August 9, 1949) was an American psychologist who spent nearly his entire career at Teachers College, Columbia University. His work on animal behavior and the learning process led to the theory of connectionism and helped lay the scientific foundation for modern educational psychology.He also worked on solving industrial problems, such as employee exams and testing. He was a member of the board of the Psychological Corporation, and served as president of the American Psychological Association in 1912. [1][2]
Again, I'm not finding information on exactly where Thorndike was born; this will require additional research.

Albert Bandura:

Quote:
Albert Bandura (b. 4 December 1925 in Mundare, Canada) is a psychologist specializing in social cognitive theory and self-efficacy.


I almost forgot Carl Rogers!

Quote:
Carl Ransom Rogers (January 8, 1902 – February 4, 1987) was an influential American psychologist and among the founders of the humanistic approach to psychology. Rogers is considered to be one of the founding fathers of psychotherapy research and was honored for his pioneering research with the Award for Distinguished Scientific Contributions by the American Psychological Association in 1956. The Person-centered approach, his own unique approach to understanding personality and human relationships, found wide application in various domains such as psychotherapy and counseling (Client-centered therapy), education (Student-centered learning), organizations, and other group settings. For his professional work he was bestowed the Award for Distinguished Professional Contributions to Psychology by the APA in 1972. Towards the end of his life Carl Rogers was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for his work with national intergroup conflict in South Africa and Northern Ireland.[1] In an empirical study by Haggbloom et al. (2002) using six criteria such as citations and recognition, Rogers was found to be the 6th most eminent psychologist of the 20th Century and among clinicians, 2nd only to Sigmund Freud.[2]


It seems I also forgot J. P. Guildford the first time I submitted this post.

Quote:
Joy Paul Guilford (March 7, 1897, Marquette, Nebraska – November 26, 1987, Los Angeles) was a US psychologist, best remembered for his psychometric study of human intelligence.

He graduated from the University of Nebraska before studying under Edward Titchener at Cornell. He then held a number of posts at Nebraska and briefly at the University of Southern California before becoming Director of Psychological Research at Santa Ana Army Air Base in 1941. There he worked on the selection and ranking of aircrew trainees.

Developing the views of L. L. Thurstone, Guilford rejected Charles Spearman's view that intelligence could be characterised in a single numerical parameter and proposed that three dimensions were necessary for accurate description:

* Content
* Operations
* Productions

He made the important distinction between convergent and divergent production.


I know I must have missed some influential psychologists; can anyone contribute to this list?

Arian Maverick
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Last edited by Arian Maverick; 12-02-2007 at 11:18 PM.
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Unread 12-02-2007, 11:37 PM
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Re: The Natal Charts of Famous Psychologists

I thought it would be interesting to do a tally of the Sun signs, Moon signs, etc. of the psychologists I have listed above, even though we all know that astrology is much more than Sun signs.

I have the charts of 15 psychologists saved on my computer--unfortunately, I can't seem to access the chart of John B. Watson--and their Sun signs tallied as thus:

Sagittarius: 3
Pisces: 3
Aries: 2
Virgo: 2
Taurus: 1
Cancer: 1
Leo: 1
Libra: 1
Capricorn: 1

On second thought, I've decided against doing Moon signs since many of these times of birth are unknown, but perhaps I can tally up the Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn signs (Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto may not differ very much because they are generational influences).

Mercury Signs:

Sagittarius: 3
Cancer: 2
Libra: 2
Aquarius: 2
Pisces: 2
Aries: 1
Taurus: 1
Virgo: 1
Capricorn: 1

I noticed an interesting phenomena when I went to tally the Venus signs; I actually decided against posting it here because due to the unknown birth time in many of these charts, I could not be certain that Venus was in a particular sign if it was at the very beginning or very end of a sign. This happened in quite a few charts, about four of them if my memory serves me correctly, so I believe this is worth notice.

Mars Signs:

Cancer: 4 (one was on the 29th degree, so I couldn't be certain)
Gemini: 2
Scorpio: 2
Sagittarius: 2
Aries: 1
Taurus: 1
Gemini: 1
Libra: 1
Aquarius: 1
Pisces: 1

Jupiter Signs:

Virgo: 4
Capricorn: 3
Leo: 2
Pisces: 2
Aries: 1
Taurus: 1
Libra: 1
Sagittarius: 1

I was also surprised how many of these psychologists had T-squares in their natal charts.

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Last edited by Arian Maverick; 12-02-2007 at 11:46 PM.
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Unread 12-03-2007, 03:13 PM
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Re: The Natal Charts of Famous Psychologists

Are there any trends that anyone studying the charts see emerge like Pluto on an angle or highly active in the chart?

House and aspects are usually telling also.
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Unread 12-03-2007, 03:33 PM
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Re: The Natal Charts of Famous Psychologists

Quote:
Are there any trends that anyone studying the charts see emerge like Pluto on an angle or highly active in the chart?

House and aspects are usually telling also.
Unfortunately, it is impossible to tell if Pluto is on an angle without an accurate time of birth

I am definitely interested in this theory, though; how would you define Pluto as highly active?

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Unread 12-03-2007, 11:14 PM
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Re: The Natal Charts of Famous Psychologists

Look at Jung's chart as one example.

Pl=IC and Sa=Asc

Very important .I forget what Freud had,but that is important to.He had Mars 11th I think a very bad placement,but that goes to show how one overcomes things that are said to be negatives.

One thing that has come to me that I have used for people of fame is the Nodes.

I read about it and once on a BB one person appeared and started to make comments of how popular they were at party's and how everyine wanted to talk to them./

I instinctively asked do you have NN close to the MC 9th Hse side and she said how did you know.

Uranus is another indicator of fame and popularity.

I think that my SA Ne coming to contact my Moon is making me aware of insights I had not had before. I had them ,but I just did not use the intuition.The next 2 yrs., I will have more.I hope I fine tune the ability or get in touch with it more.

Any angle is the most important part of the chart.Planets and aspects to them will be relevant.Pluto is the planet that digs deep into the psyche so I suspect it might be anglular or prominent in the charts you are researching.

I studied Jung a mionth or so ago. Loved his work and how his belief system was.He did believe in the Nazi regieme though which he admitted was a mistake.
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Unread 12-04-2007, 12:25 AM
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Re: The Natal Charts of Famous Psychologists

Here are some quick notes I've made about the placements of Pluto in the charts of these psychologists:

Aaron T. Beck had Pluto conjunct his retrograde Mercury in Cancer, and if he was born around noon, this conjunction would have opposed his Capricorn Moon to form an interesting boomerang configuration involving his natal Venus in Gemini and Neptune in Leo.

Abraham Maslow had Mercury in Pisces applying towards a loose square aspect with Pluto in Gemini; Saturn in Aries also formed a separating out-of-sign square aspect with Pluto.

Albert Bandura had his natal Mars in Scorpio in a tight trine with his Pluto in Cancer; Pluto also formed a loose trine to Uranus in Pisces, forming a Water Trine. Saturn was conjunct Mars.

Albert Ellis had Pluto conjunct Mars in Cancer; both of these planets sextiled Venus, formed a yod configuration with Uranus in Aquarius as the apex planet.

Mars-Pluto appears to be emerging as a theme...

Anna Freud had her natal Sun in Sagittarius in tight opposition with her first house Pluto in Gemini; Pluto is conjunct Neptune, quincunx Saturn, sextile Jupiter, and forms a loose opposition with Mercury, which is loosely conjunct her Sun.

B.F. Skinner had Pluto in Gemini sextile a dignified Mars in Aries and trine a similarly dignified Saturn in Aquarius; both of these aspects have an orb of about two degrees. Pluto is also square his poor combust Mercury in Pisces--the sign of Mercury's debility and fall.

Carl Jung has Pluto in Taurus at the apex of a yod configuration involving Jupiter in Libra and Mars in Sagittarius. Pluto also forms a tight square aspect to Saturn and a loose square aspect to Uranus; both of these planets loosely oppose each other and emphasize Pluto again, making it the apex planet of a T-square configuration. According to the time of birth given in Astrotheme, the exalted Moon in Taurus is also applying towards a conjunction with Pluto.

Carl Rogers has a large Capricorn stellium, and his tight Saturn-Sun conjunction form a tight quincunx aspect to retrograde Pluto in Gemini. Pluto also opposes Uranus in Sagittarius and forms a tight bi-quintile aspect with Jupiter and possible Mercury, if this planet did not move out-of-orb of this aspect at the time he was born...

Erich Fromm had Pluto in Gemini opposed a Jupiter-Uranus conjunction in Sagittarius; these planets are part of a pretty significant stellium in that sign, which possibly includes his North Node, Chiron, and possibly the Moon. Pluto is loosely conjunct Neptune and square Mars in Pisces.

Henry Stack Sullivan had a tight, applying Neptune-Pluto conjunction in Gemini which formed a square aspect to his Sun, a possible opposition to his Moon, a sextile to Venus, a quintile to Jupiter, a loose trine to Saturn, and a tight quincunx aspect to retrograde Uranus in Scorpio.

Ivan Pavlov had a Uranus-Pluto conjunction in late Aries; Pluto possibly formed a biquintile to his Sun, a possible trine aspect to his Moon, a loose trine to Jupiter, and a sextile to Neptune.

J.P. Guilford's chart has an interesting thing going on in his chart; his Pluto-Mars midpoint is tightly conjunct Neptune, which both planets "sandwich" from either side, and Neptune is tightly square his Pisces Sun. Getting back to Pluto, it is also loosely square Jupiter and loosely square the Sun, but the Sun and Jupiter do not oppose each other, so a T-square configuration is not formed here.

Karen Horney's chart has retrograde Pluto in early Gemini in a loose out-of-sign conjunction with retrograde Neptune in mid-Taurus; Pluto is tightly trine Uranus in Libra and more loosely trine Virgo Sun conjunct Jupiter. Pluto is also square dignified Mercury in Virgo and sextile Mars, which is either in late Cancer or early Leo.

Noam Chomsky had Pluto in Cancer sextile Sun and Saturn in Sagittarius (say that ten times fast!); it was also loosely opposite Venus and possibly square his Moon.

Sigmund Freud has Pluto conjunct his Descendant from the sixth house side.

Whew! That was a long post...

What I think I've noticed from all of this is a prevelance of both major Sun-Pluto aspects such as the square (Albert Ellis, Harry Stack Sullivan, J.P. Guilford), opposition (Anna Freud), and trine (Karen Horney) and minor Sun-Pluto aspects such as the quintile (Abraham Maslow, Erich Fromm), biquintile (Ivan Pavlov), and quincunx (Albert Bandura, Carl Rogers, Noam Chomsky).

There also seemed to be a presence of dynamic Mercury-Pluto aspects such as the conjunction (Aaron T. Beck), square (Abraham Maslow and B.F. Skinner), and opposition (Anna Freud).

Although I can not be certain of the Moon position with unknown birth times, the noon charts I have created for many of these psychologists also have a significant number of Moon-Pluto contacts.

Arian Maverick
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Last edited by Arian Maverick; 12-04-2007 at 01:20 AM.
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Unread 12-08-2007, 07:10 PM
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Re: The Natal Charts of Famous Psychologists

Geez,I am getting good at this after about 30yrs. of study .

So it's Me/Pl combo's that show up along with Mn.

How do the Moon's Nodes show up.I will re-read your post.

Last edited by Sag Moon; 12-08-2007 at 11:47 PM.
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Unread 12-09-2007, 02:48 PM
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Re: The Natal Charts of Famous Psychologists

I'd like to make a brief statement about Karen Horney. She wrote a marvelous paper entitled "Problems in marriage"..... and I have given copies of this paper throughout the years to my clients who are willing to actually expand their scope of ideas regarding their marriages, which were, at that particular time, in trouble.

Her paper is incredibly practical and reasonable and easy to read. Ultimately, with many examples, she shows how our "expectations" of what marriage will be, often keeps us from actually experiencing a good marriage.

I love Jung, as he studied astrology and I can equate what he says to what I know about psychology through my learning astrology. BUT I don't think it's a "pick one" situation...... every one of these doctors found "a truth".....THE truth about any one person is found within his/her OWN chart.
LIN

Last edited by Lin; 12-09-2007 at 03:01 PM.
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Unread 12-09-2007, 10:27 PM
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Re: The Natal Charts of Famous Psychologists

The natural psychologist is represented by Sun/Jupiter=Pluto mid point. I have seen this with people who are not psychologists and believe me they should be.

Some combinations of the midpoint work and even Moon/jupiter=Pluto

kingsley
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Unread 12-04-2011, 06:43 PM
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Re: The Natal Charts of Famous Psychologists

I'm with You folks for this pseudo-psychology. In personal terms I find it exalting the actual subject with in-depth understanding beyond normal capability.
My own guess had been that psychologists should either have a Water sign strong AS/MC or Jupiter/Pluto well placed. My own chart shows a very strong Psychological placement with Jupiter in 8th (& pluto 7th-8th cusp) in Scorpio, Sun=Cancer, Asc=Pisces. (See, all water)
.Believe me I've been to several therapist only for them to refuse to take me on because I threatened their ability (I turned tables too quickly) & despite having my sister & best friend as trained psychologists, I don't find them Capable ENOUGH. I have no professional training but people come to me regardless of that.

I'm actually surprised to see Carl Jung's chart.. I don't understand the Pluto placements mentioned but Otherwise he has no water signs dominant, so I guess he had a lot of intellectualisation regarding human psyche.

Good post!
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Unread 12-04-2011, 06:52 PM
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Re: The Natal Charts of Famous Psychologists

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingsley View Post
The natural psychologist is represented by Sun/Jupiter=Pluto mid point. I have seen this with people who are not psychologists and believe me they should be.

Some combinations of the midpoint work and even Moon/jupiter=Pluto

kingsley
I personally feel the most capable ones are NOT in the field. They just use the psychological insight in other ways. It's always an asset. Through experience I've learnt that people with traumatic histories usually train to 'make it better for others' especially to provide the 'acceptance' factor. So most of them are emotionally tuned trying to find the pieces of their own unfulfilled desires & therapists actually LIVE THROUGH THEIR CLIENTS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arian Maverick View Post
I thought it would be interesting to do a tally of the Sun signs, Moon signs, etc. of the psychologists I have listed above, even though we all know that astrology is much more than Sun signs.

I have the charts of 15 psychologists saved on my computer--unfortunately, I can't seem to access the chart of John B. Watson--and their Sun signs tallied as thus:

Sagittarius: 3
Pisces: 3
Aries: 2
Virgo: 2
Taurus: 1
Cancer: 1
Leo: 1
Libra: 1
Capricorn: 1

On second thought, I've decided against doing Moon signs since many of these times of birth are unknown, but perhaps I can tally up the Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn signs (Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto may not differ very much because they are generational influences).

Mercury Signs:

Sagittarius: 3
Cancer: 2
Libra: 2
Aquarius: 2
Pisces: 2
Aries: 1
Taurus: 1
Virgo: 1
Capricorn: 1

I noticed an interesting phenomena when I went to tally the Venus signs; I actually decided against posting it here because due to the unknown birth time in many of these charts, I could not be certain that Venus was in a particular sign if it was at the very beginning or very end of a sign. This happened in quite a few charts, about four of them if my memory serves me correctly, so I believe this is worth notice.

Mars Signs:

Cancer: 4 (one was on the 29th degree, so I couldn't be certain)
Gemini: 2
Scorpio: 2
Sagittarius: 2
Aries: 1
Taurus: 1
Gemini: 1
Libra: 1
Aquarius: 1
Pisces: 1

Jupiter Signs:

Virgo: 4
Capricorn: 3
Leo: 2
Pisces: 2
Aries: 1
Taurus: 1
Libra: 1
Sagittarius: 1

I was also surprised how many of these psychologists had T-squares in their natal charts.

Arian Maverick
Can someone notice the Ratio of CANCER/ SCORPIO signs being so low? (which are the naturals at psychology).
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Last edited by Blackempress; 12-04-2011 at 07:20 PM.
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