Noel Tyl

delilah4

Well-known member
I was wondering what your opinions are on Noel Tyl and his techniques in Vocational Astrology.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Delilah, I am just starting to read his book, coincidentally! I think he has some good (if lengthy) practical advice. Most of his examples seem to be people he knows (clients) or knows of. He admits that much of his work indicates something about how the "native" needs to operate in a vocation, rather than what particular line of work is best suited for the person, let alone what s/he actually does for a living. But I think his "diagnostic" is basically sound, if one has the patience to work through it.
 

Nexus7

Well-known member
I don't know about his vocational techniques - apart from the MC, he has a real interest in the Sun/Moon blend as far as I remember. I did get one or two books of his at one time - all his ideas seemed very fluent, very clever, very up on latest psychological models, and his books also gave off an exciting sense of recognition of the potentials of his clients. At the same time, somehow his approach also engendered a little mistrust, at least for me - there is something a little slick about Tyl, too much of the magician, especially in the way he describes his interractions with his clients. I certainly did come across an interesting read from someone who blasted him from drawing 'creative' conclusions that had no real basis in any anecdotal experience.

Instead of referring to 'afflicted' planets, he refers to 'developmental tension' instead - might be interesting to one or two in view of one or two posts I have read here recently where fears have been expressed about being besieged by horrendous and unrelieved afflictions to various natal planets.

His books can still be enjoyed for the way many ideas are synthesised now, and he does not seem to mind sharing his experiences and interviews with clients.
 
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Kaylor

New member
My life has never had any direction. :confused: Several years ago, I got into having Astrology readings done, and getting free ones online. I got more interested in Astrology, but vocation wise, I was getting nowhere fast.

Then I decided to invest the $180.00 in my future, for a consultation with Noel Tyl, and get some answers once and for all. I was excited, and scared too. He's a big man, and very intimidating. It was the BIGGEST thing I had ever done for ME!!! :p

The "45 minute consultation" only lasted 25 minutes. I had made a list of important things that had happened in my life, with the dates. He was absolutely accurate on those. I was getting so excited, I just KNEW that he
could point me in a direction. I could hardly wait. I was SO excited.:)

Then what he told me...... was something that I would NEVER in my life do as a vocation. Later, I was so upset and disappointed that I could do nothing but cry.

He is a wonderful man, and very easy to talk to. The consultation goes very fast, and he is very commanding. His voice is loud and strong. He is all business, yet puts you at ease and makes you comfrortable.

I did feel better that he did validate that my mother was controling and unresonable. I feel better about that.

Overall, I did not get any help with a vocation. I didn't feel like he spent enough time with me to get a good sense of who I am. I was expecting to
hear something more UN-traditional as a Vocation. I didn't hear it. My life still has no direction.

Do I LOVE the man; yes, yes, yes!! :p So much so, that I am seriously thinking about taking his MASTER'S DEGREE COURSE in Astrology!!! I would have LOVED for him to find that in my chart and suggested it as a vocation.
:p
His site promises that if you take the Master's Degree course, when you have your degree in two years, you will be as good as any Astrologer in the world.

:p OMG!!! I would LOVE to do that....... FOR ME.:p
 

Nexus7

Well-known member
Kaylor

I do wonder about your post - you seem to be very much in awe of this man, a real fan of his, but you are then saying....not only was your reading much shorter than the 45 minutes you were supposed to have got, but you never did get the insights you had been hoping for.......


Perhaps it is easy to sit on your laurels a little when your reputation is asured and you have tons of charisma to go with your public image, but I don't know....maybe you should look for a more conscientious counsellor.

A stange little man once came to my table when I was doing fairs once and told me he was a career psychologist, and offered me a reading in exchange for an astrological one for me. He told me I should either be a 'minister of religion' for some strange reason, or a speech therapist.

Well, if it is any help at the time I was doing readings, and now I scrape a living from Tesol, though it is not really wanted. The scoring on the test he showed me seemed a little inflexible and therefore suspect - I was excluDed from 'artist' as a career, because I do not play any musical instruments and I don't see why that should have mattered.

If I were to go to an astrologer to get a better idea of where to take my career, I would rather go to someone trained in midpoints or harmonics - what Charles Harvey and Mike Harding suggest is that what their field is capable of doing is looking for the fine points in a chart where you really could find your groove, or niche. They suggest that your chart might not show that you don't really have it as a stand-up commedian, but maybe from the point Of view of editing scrips for these, you could excel.....
 
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Jilly

Banned
I know he still does guestings, but there is something about this man I just do not like the feel off.....

If I had paid and was short changed re time, you better believe I would have said something at the time or not paid him the full amount.

Astrologers are not magicians, or gods, and the sooner people wake up to this the better. They are working out our information, different folk have different tacks to it, but the end result is never magic, never awe inspiriring, and NEVER allow yourself to be bullshitted on..
 

Kaylor

New member
Hello Nexus7,
Thank you for your response. After hearing what Noel Tyl's recommendation was for a vocation, I wanted to be open minded and give myself time to think deeply about it. I didn't want to rush to judgement. I knew it wouldn't be something I would be interested in, but in all fairness I felt I should sleep on it. Then, it was such a let down, that I cried.

I realize that Noel Tyl is only human, and he can't be right all the time, nobody is. If I, who knows me better than anyone, could not find a passion for my life in a lifetime, it might have been to much for me to expect him to do it in 25 minutes.

Being a novice at Astrology, I was drawn to Noel Tyl by his reputation and the many books he has written on many Astrology subjects. (SO "Blinded by the light.")

My chart seems to be strong for Psychology, the occult, metaphysical knowledge and understanding, prophetic sense, charisma, personal power, deeply Spiritual, leadership, emotional power, advisor, counselor, travel, foreign culture, communicator, negotiator, new ideas.

These should all be clues. There IS a pattern, I just don't like the direction it's headed in. It scares me more than it excites me.

Thank you again for your response Nexus7. You are so lovely, and wise beyond your years. I sense that you are in a good place in your life. You
have such a look of contentment with your life. You have definately found your GROOVE!!!

I wish you lasting success in all that you do. My best to you, and those you love.
Ms. Kaylor McKay
 

Nexus7

Well-known member
'but there is something about this man I just do not like the feel off.....'

I am glad it is not just me. I think the man brings a good deal of clever insights as I said to the art, there is optimism there, but as I said...there is too much of the magician there wih Tyl, something a litle manipulative, somehow...

Thanks for your kind words Kaylor, and why don't you put up your chart here? - there are plenty of astrologers here who should be happy to share their ideas about your career direction, if you share with us how you see things there too.

As for me - well, I have found a groove, it's just that I can't make a living from it, or find good galleries. Saturn well and truly squares my Midheaven and opposes the Aries point too, and this has not been an area of life where things have run altogether with ease: not when graduating in a recessed UK in 1981, where there were 500 graduates to the only lonely vacancy.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
Kaylor, taking a course in astrology from one of the leaders in the field would be exciting! But there are many courses out there, by individual astrologers as well as by organizations like the American Federation of Astrologers, the National Council for Geocosmic Research, and Kepler College. You might wish to shop around, both on the Internet and by reading books published by leading astrologers, unless money is not a problem for you and you don't mind the risk of not getting what you thought you paid for. I have a lot of respect for Mr. Tyl, but I doubt that his "Master's degree" program is accredited by any recognized body.

Good luck with your astrological studies: just keep your feet on the ground, your head on your shoulders, and your back to the wall! Which I bet you are savvy enough to do anyway, even without my advice.
 

BobZemco

Well-known member
Kaylor said:
Then what he told me...... was something that I would NEVER in my life do as a vocation. Later, I was so upset and disappointed that I could do nothing but cry.

In other words, you went to the consultation with preconceived notions regarding your vocation, then when he didn't tell you what you wanted to hear, you got upset.

I'll be that's in your chart, and I'll bet he probably knew that, which is why your consultation was short.

Kaylor said:
Overall, I did not get any help with a vocation. I didn't feel like he spent enough time with me to get a good sense of who I am. I was expecting to hear something more UN-traditional as a Vocation. I didn't hear it. My life still has no direction.

A good astrologer would know you from your chart and wouldn't need to sit around engaging in idle chatter.

He nailed all the important dates in your life, so he did have a good sense of who you are.

There are many aspects of vocation. One doesn't need to be a musician to be prominent and successful in the music industry, just like one doesn't need to be a doctor or lawyer to work in the medical or legal fields.

Maybe you should suck it up, do a little research and give the new vocation a try. You might be pleasantly surprised.
 

Nexus7

Well-known member
......but Kaylor only got 25 minutes, not the 45 minutes she had hoped for.

Kaylor, how do you feel about the vocational advice Tyl gave you now? Any more thoughts on the possible accuracy of it - or the lack of it?
 

Kingsley

Well-known member
If the Astrologer related to the chart and possible issues of sensitivity for the client, that would have hopefully inspired a more empathic response on his behalf instead of potyentially traumatizing the client.

I think you are a bit tough on Kalor, Bob. You do seem to be a straight shooter which is not a bad thing however being a member on this forum for only a couple of weeks I hope you find some flexibility.

kingsley
 

Nexus7

Well-known member
I always had it hammered into me when I did a course in astrology - the Mayo course - that the 'clever' astrologer can do a whole lot more harm than good. Yet I met a good many people before I did the course who seemed to think that it is somehow 'good' for people to reduce them to tears by pointing out the weak points of their charts, looking only for the negatives or just delivering nothing more than crass sun-sign generalisations.

I don't think it is necessarily the client's fault if they do get 'upset' after a either a negative or a slapdash reading.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Nexus, very wise!

Kaylor, are you willing to post your chart and tell us what career Noel Tyl recommended for you and why you don't like it? This would be very helpful for all of us astrology students, and might help delilah4 think through his techniques as well. I've got a copy of Tyl's book on vocational astrology, and so could try to follow his steps if he didn't explain them to you.
 

AquarianEssence

Well-known member
I would love to take a look too. I am fairly familiar with the technique and now the midheaven extension process doesn't work for me without taking other things into consideration. Of course, both my Moon and MC ruler are void of course, Moon by sign and degree, Venus by sign so if that isn't taken into account along with their last aspect, especially, it couldn't work. Then there is the complication that Noel won't acknowledge the validity of a natal body being void. Then there is confusion with him redefining what peregrine means, saying an unaspected planet is peregrine rather than a planet in a sign without dignity or debility.......

Besides the MC, the 2nd (natural born skills, self esteem and ability to share that with the world) and the 6th (necessary environment or work conditions along with any trade that might fill in until the vocation (10th) is manifest or when the economy and times don't allow the vocation voice) need to be included. It is the earth grand trine that creates the whole for harmony.

Connie
 

Shadowflash

Well-known member
Without meaning to sound judgmental of Mr. Tyl, as I'm sure the Divine loves him perfectly well just as he is... :) ...in support of those voicing hesitation around this individual's *vibe,* though I've had no personal contact with him, I'd have to say I'd be quite surprised if his own chart didn't reveal a *particularly strong first house*... ;-> ...to put it kindly. He is obviously an incredibly masterful astrologer, with great wisdom to pass along; what bothers me about his energy is that his acquired knowledge does not seem to be matched by that crucial awareness that the more we come to Know, the more we realize we Don't Know. I don't sense even a whiff of humility and openess in this way, about this person and, given that, no matter what degree of mastery he displays, even if I had the money it would not be his reading and insight I would seek...

Again, just FWIW...
 

waybread

Well-known member
Jerry, I think you can post his chart/birth data. Celebrities are normaly considered fair game. Member's friends, relatives, acquaintances generally are not, unless they have either given their permission for birth data to be used, or unless their material is made sufficiently anonymous so that no one else could identify them.
 

Night Sky

Well-known member
JerryRR said:
Thanks for clarification Waybread.
Noel Tyl.
Born 31st Dec 1936 at 3:57pm West Chester (PA) (USA).

I think he has tweaked his chart if my memory is correct.

He is a graduate of Harvard in Social Relations (Psychology,Sociology and Anthropology).

In 1998 he recieved the Regulus Award for establishing and maintaining professional image in the field of Astrology.

Asc 0:03 Cancer Mc 7:02 Pisces.

Jeremy.


I been reading some of his stuff, seems to be quite helpful in most cases.

Some things which ring true to me and that he says which I like include:

"contact is all that matters, doesn't matter if it is rx or debilitated, or hard aspect so long as there is an aspect"

Also about Aspects to the Midheaven being more important than planets which might be placed in the 10th house. I like this analysis.

And by natural extension you can probably say the same form of analysis can be used thinking about the Ascendant... chart ruler, and it's dispositors, are one factor but the aspects to the ASC and MC show the actual experiences...

Still reading his stuff. Will probably come back to this thread with more.
 

BobZemco

Well-known member
Nexus7 said:
......but Kaylor only got 25 minutes, not the 45 minutes she had hoped for.

Clearly there's a difference between someone who comes to you saying, "Tell me I'm going to be an astronaut" and someone who asks, "What are my vocational options?"

As soon as I tell them there's no chance in the next 30 lifetimes they'll ever be an astronaut, they'll get defensive and perhaps even hostile because I didn't tell them what they wanted to hear. What would be the point of continuing a consultation? It'd be a waste of time, like talking to a brick wall.

It's not uncommon at all. People come with relationship charts expecting you to tell them this is the greatest relationship since time immemorial and when you suggest they pursue other options, they get defensive and hostile, and then they tune you out because you aren't telling them what they want to hear, at which point any further consultation is fruitless.

Nexus7 said:
Kaylor, how do you feel about the vocational advice Tyl gave you now? Any more thoughts on the possible accuracy of it - or the lack of it?

I'm not familiar with Tyl's methods, but there are ways to judge vocation.

I have Pluto and the Sun angular, which is typical of law enforcement, but I no longer have an interest, which became obvious when I was looking at my progressed chart. Just as people change slightly as their Ascendant and Sun progresses, so do vocational interests and abilities.
 

Theo

Banned
Nexus7 said:
'but there is something about this man I just do not like the feel off.....'

I am glad it is not just me. I think the man brings a good deal of clever insights as I said to the art, there is optimism there, but as I said...there is too much of the magician there wih Tyl, something a litle manipulative, somehow...

Thanks for your kind words Kaylor, and why don't you put up your chart here? - there are plenty of astrologers here who should be happy to share their ideas about your career direction, if you share with us how you see things there too.

As for me - well, I have found a groove, it's just that I can't make a living from it, or find good galleries. Saturn well and truly squares my Midheaven and opposes the Aries point too, and this has not been an area of life where things have run altogether with ease: not when graduating in a recessed UK in 1981, where there were 500 graduates to the only lonely vacancy.

I have to agree with Nexus7 onTyl. He has done some good work in the mudane area, however, over the years, I have had problems with his natal work in that he doesn't seem to really gear into this area with clients and that's what I find manipulative as well. Moreover, I disagree with his MC method. Perhaps it's that I also forecast the weather, and found that the IC controls 50% of the chart. This works as well within natal charts. There's more on my thoughts on Tyl, however, I leave it at that.

I bring a scientific approach to astrology by forecasting long-range climate and weather. What most of the conventional scientific community (and some in the astrological community as well) is that weather forecasting, or meteorology, was invented by classical astrologers, and meteorology is one of the main branches of astrology. Accurate forcasting using astrological principles is a sure way of proving that astrology is a valid science.

Lynda, concerning your art, and that Saturn square to your MC the opposition to your Aries point... hit me up with a email, ok?
 
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