Thanks for your thoughts, Mr. Spock.
First of all, the title was written in the superlative, in the spirit of your supermarket tabloid, better known in yesteryears as a "slug line." Do I have a negative image of Saturn? Yes, I do—until I look at him from a different angle, but that's not the point with this post and another story entirely.
Supermarket tabloid is an apt description of your sensationalist style of prognostication, but that style is a disservice to any client or acquaintance it's inflicted upon. Your extraordinarily negative, superstitious, and fatalistic view of Saturn is out of date even for astrology, which is generally backward compared to other fields of knowledge.
Second of all, this is not my chart; this is not me. And in one's regard to attitude, it appears as if I have found myself in the unfortunate position of informing you that your thoughts—at their very best—will only serve as a means of mitigating the pernicious effects of Saturn—or, sometimes, its mortiferous effects. Thoughts have power, absolutely. They are extremely powerful. Nevertheless, the currents created by yesterdays thoughts and actions cannot be trumped by the best attitude that you can muster today. And Saturn symbolizes that "karma," if you will.
Saturn doesn't symbolize karma or anything else, nor does any other astrological factor, in my opinion. Saturn's effects are neither pernicious nor mortiferous, but astrological symbolism, as I opine in my article
After Symbolism linked below, has certainly had a pernicious effect on our understanding of astrology.
That is not to say that there are wondrous associations with Saturn. I do not deny that by any means. Absolutely. However, this unfortunately is not one of those situations as time will show for this individual. If this person had established the necessary foundations to withstand the "storm" that is on the horizon, I would not be concerned. It appears, however, that at this time, for her, Saturn (the malefic) heralds its ill-starred inevitability.
Storm on the horizon? Ill-starred inevitability? Are you trying to scare this person to death? From time to time I read horror stories of clients scarred by old-fashioned, apodictic astrological warnings of dire things to come.
If previous transit periods, at 14-15 and 21-22, have been difficult, then the appropriate thing is to let her know that these periods are recurrences of "the same thing", and to advise her to reflect on how they're similar and what she's perhaps doing to
make them difficult so she can perhaps deal with the same urges and needs more constructively this time around.
My natal Venus is 17°31" Libra. Saturn is 24°53" Cancer. During my Saturn Return in 1975 I moved from Portland, Oregon to Denver, Colorado. I was almost immediately added as a speaker at the regional conference due to begin in August thanks to the recommendation of a colleague who moved there several months earlier. Before the conference I wrote a flyer, About Transit Analysis, which the conference organizers were kind enough to hand out at the registration table. My two lectures were heavily attended and very popular. I think it would be fair to say I was the breakout star of the conference. Subsequently, using a mailing list the conference organizers kindly provided, I organized a very successful transit course. My Saturn Return thus coincided with a period during which I was highly lauded and became a member of the local astrological community with greatly enhanced status. Multidimensional nightmare and storm clouds indeed. I'll probably never get over it.
That's quite fascinating. I would like to hear more about this.
Your Venus, incidentally, is shielded by its being exalted by Saturn and in the sign of its rulership. That's quite an auspicious situation (one of a kind) to have one's Venus during a Saturn return and having a quadrate angle involved.
I don't think rulerships, exaltations, dignities, debilities, etc. have any effect at all or any place in a rational, natural astrology as opposed to a magical, supernatural one.
I don't know if you'd want to but for the purpose of edification, I think it would be wonderful if you could post your chart for us to see.
What's the rulership of your tenth and eleventh houses? What was your experience with close relationships at this time? Did you find yourself having to either put much more effort into them? Did you find that some disappeared? How did you navigate your way in the area of love at this time?
I have no objection to posting my chart, although I doubt that I'll agree with your way of interpreting it. You can determine the (imaginary, to me) rulerships of my tenth and eleventh houses by looking at the chart. It's attached. I have nothing to say myself because I 'believe in' neither rulerships nor houses. My experience with close relationships at 22, Saturn square itself and opposite Venus, was I got into a serious relationship for the first time, got married, then moved to Oregon in part so we could develop our relationship without interference from her parents and siblings.
That relationship ended when Saturn squared my Ascendant or, as I prefer, conjoined my Nonagesimal. When I and my second wife moved during my Saturn Return it was in part, again, to get away from in-laws (her parents lived in Oregon) so we could develop our relationship without interference. Her mother was very domineering, wanted her to marry a doctor or lawyer and kept trying to set her up with same, and ran off several previous boyfriends who didn't fit that mold. So the big change in 1975 was in part a career move and in part a relationship move.
Although the effect of a Saturn transit is going to be similar each time, the outcome won't necessarily be the same and it won't necessarily be catastrophically negative.
Absolutely agree. And my belief (understanding) is that this is due to the "seeds we sow" leading up to this event. If we've fortified ourselves; e.g., created healthy relationships, saved and secured our finances, etc., then we should, at best, pass through this period with nothing more than a blink. But if that's not the case, then hard lessons can be learned.
Also, as Jupiters Ascendant stated early on in the thread, it is nearly impossible to tell in a general sense because each chart will augment the effect significantly.
Here we're in at least partial agreement. Dealing constructively with a given transit in the past makes it easier to deal with in the future. Hence how we've dealt with it in the past affects how it's experienced in the future. But I take issue with the implicit notion that an eventful Saturn transit period is,
ipso facto, one during which bad things happen, and that conversely the best that we can hope for during a Saturn transit is that nothing much happens, i.e., no news is good news. Astrology does
not predict what happens
to us. It predicts recurrent urges and needs — motivations or drives — that
we react to (or resist reacting to) positively, negatively, or in between. And in that regard there's no difference between supposed 'malefics' like Saturn or supposed 'benefics' like Jupiter.
Look back to when you were 14-15 and 21-22 to get at least an idea of how this transit pattern, Saturn hard-angle natal Saturn and Venus, has worked for you. During the square in 1967-68, for instance, I got married and a few months later moved from southern Indiana to Portland, Oregon, leaving behind a factory job and finding more satisfying work as an actuarial trainee at a life insurance company. During both periods I was uncharacteristically decisive and confident. I knew what I wanted and went after it. Saturn is not your enemy. It's your self-image, or ego, which tends to change, for better or worse, during Saturn transits.
That's very interesting, Mr. Spock. If you wouldn't mind, could I have your birth details? I'd like to go through and analyze your chart. It would be very informative for me, and I think it might help me get a clearer perspective. I appreciate very much your post, nonetheless.
BTW: Hello from Portland, Oregon.
I miss Portland (and Eugene) and would dearly love to find employment on the west coast so I can move away from this very conservative and stultifying area. Chart is attached.