Darth MI
Well-known member
I'll give this another shot. Both Sworm09 and I have repeatedly stated on this site that despite how many astrologers try to spin Adolf Hitler's chart into a sadistic murderer, was not a psychopath. back during the 1930s and 40s there was nothing wrong with his racist worldview.
In fact Adolf Hitler was actually quite mellow during his time period. He personally never got a pistol and shot down Jews randomly and even helped Jews who he considered friends escape from Nazi Germany. Long before his rise in power, he had lots of Jewish friends in Vienna.
The fact is despite how people try to point out placements in his chart to explain how racist and bloodthirsty he is (I even seen one self-proclaimed veteran of astrology point out to Saturn in his 10th house to explain his "hatred of foreigners"), the average Westerner (NOTE:Westerner, not just German) actually applauded his vocal hatred of Jews and nonwhites. During Hitler's youth in Vienna, riots against Jews were already occurring and the local newspaper was putting slanders against the Jewish community. Even nations who suffered tremendously as a result of Nazi genocidal policy such as Poland and Ukraine had its citizens (who were being sent to camps and starving to death or being experimented in labs,etc) who supported the Nazis simply to kill Jews for the hell of it. The Nazis didn't even approach them, many soldiers in Ukraine happily volunteered to shootdown Jews using Ukrainian resources for a targetting gallery.
If its saying something, Claus Von Stauffenberg, the man who attempted the most famous assassination operation against Hitler, believed Poles were so subhuman they deserved to be enslaved and despised Jews as not being "real Germans". Stauffenberg was actually more left-leaning than most in the Nazi party at the time and he made such statements before he even got affiliated with the Nazis personally.
So this is one thing I am interested in discussing about. I seen so many astrologers pull stuff out of nowhere to spin a natal chart so they match the schoolbook images of celebrity.
A most irritating example is Alexander of Macedonia who many astrologers rectify as having Aries Ascendant. We don't even know his birthday yet already astrologers had done rectification with a sure opinion, pointing out to his warmongering nature and aggressive personality that is prone to starting fights among his comrades and creating accidents like a fire that burned down a palace.
Thing is Alexander was the heir to the throne of a nation already known for its warlike tendencies. His father, Philip (who is praised as being a far more restrained man than Alexander was) spent his whole life fighting to unite Greece and even expected Alexander to increase his empire's territory. He would have been proud of all what Alexander accomplished in his life.
This is not even adding that Macedonia was situated in a rocky region where one had to be hardened merely to survive the environment and to add to the hassle intrusion from random warlike nomadic tribes were common. Every noble was expected to be hardened in war by the time they reach their late 20s and the nation was known for its citizenry who were among the finest citizen armies in Greece.
Even Greece as a whole was a warlike civilization. For Christ's sake, one of their most sacred religious celebration was the Olympics, an athletic contest often featuring sports heavily entwined with fighting such as javelin throwing. Ancient Athens, the most scholarly of the Greek cities, had a citizenship fit enough to march for miles in full armor and sports was considered an essential thing in a young Athenian man's education. Even the famous philosophers like Socrates were known to wrestle in the gyms and had fought in several battles in their life time.
When we take it all into account, Alexander's warmongering nature was a standard trait in the culture he was raised in so to automatically go with Aries ascendant is a slap in the face against that reality.
I really think astrologers are doing a terrible job by studying a chart in its isolation. When one studies celebrities like Hitler and George Washington, we must look at the standards of the time period and culture they were raised in.
The most famous example of course is Adolf Hitler who many astrologers repeatedly try to rectify his chart into Scorpio ascendant or if they use the Libra Asc chart, they try to nitpick specific placements like Saturn in 10th house as proof of his hatred towards foreigners and tendencies to blame foreigners for all his problems. Ignoring that millions of Germans in his time were doing the same and had been done so for centuries before Hitler was even born as seen in the mass riots against Jews in the Medieval Ages (who were not considered Germans but foreign outsiders; in some riots not even as humans but as children of Satan).
Just like Hitler shows, despite his portrayal as a sadistic heartless psychopath in modern media, there was nothing wrong with his racist dogmas back int he 30s and most Germans would have eagerly accepted his views of killing Jews even if it were espoused by some random nobody. The fact Hitler used resources to save some Jews he considered friends is enough to contradict giving Scorpio as his Ascendant.
To use another relatively recent example, for years people considered Megan Fox Scorpio Ascendant. When it was recently revealed by MEGAN FOX HERSELF that she was Leo ascendant, not Scorpio, in this site people began to try to rectify her chart as Scorpio Asc, saying her birth time was wrong, or even point out her facial features as being Scorpionic, not Leonine. You can find the whole thread in the link below.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65273
Those who conceded the possibility of Megan being Leo then tried to point out at that she probably has Ascendant square Mars (despite the fact Megan didn't even reveal her full natal chart yet publicly at least at the time the discussion was happening).
I don't follow Megan Fox well enough to make a comment about her natal chart but she is a recent and legitimate example of how astrologers make assumption about celebrities despite not actually even reading a single biography summarizing her basic life story.
To use just as big an example is Osama Bin Ladin. We don't even know his true birth time as many biographers and CIA sources put contradicting information and we have yet to discover a birth certificate or see relatives admit his birth time. Not helping is the fact that the Islamic Calendar uses different months and dates from the Western Calendar.
Yet people are quick to point out that he is a Pisces Sun despite the fact we don't even have reliable information of what year he is born nevermind what month. All this is pointing to the fact that he "led" a holy war against the west and was a religious leader of Islam.
UUUUUHHHHHH Osama Bin Ladin was NOT AN IMAM (Islam's equivalent of priesthood). He never even studied in an Islamic university nor has witnesses admit another Imam tutored him in the ways of Islam. He doesn't even shown to have true understanding of Islam, all he's done before his death is cherrypick from the Koran verses to inspire the poor Arabs to fight the Westerners (but he completely ignored any quotes about peace or charity to the poor or fighting corruption in society).
Bin Ladin hasn't even been verified among Afghani Mujahedeen sources to have even step foot in Afghanistan; most Mujahedeen (including former leaders of the Taliban who really liked Bin Ladin) all state Bin Ladin was at best their main supplier of weapons but he has never actually been in a fire fight with the Soviets and it wouldn't surprise me if he never even shot an American soldier before.
This is not even counting that the country Bin Laden was born in is a THOECRACY that bans non Muslims from entering without a work visa and is so puritanical that one can go to jail for not attending the weekly Mosque meetings without a specific license and the local Saudi police is known to persecute even non-Muslim foreigners who got the necessary visas to enter the country.
The whole argument is automatically mute because we don't have his birth date but Bin Ladin is probably the best modern historical figure who exemplifies the cherrypicking by astrologers. Not only have they ignored the culture Bin Laden came from but they even ignore that Bin Laden is only one leader in the Islamic terrorism and there are many leaders who are arguably more fitting for a "Pisces Sun" chart.
What do you think?
In fact Adolf Hitler was actually quite mellow during his time period. He personally never got a pistol and shot down Jews randomly and even helped Jews who he considered friends escape from Nazi Germany. Long before his rise in power, he had lots of Jewish friends in Vienna.
The fact is despite how people try to point out placements in his chart to explain how racist and bloodthirsty he is (I even seen one self-proclaimed veteran of astrology point out to Saturn in his 10th house to explain his "hatred of foreigners"), the average Westerner (NOTE:Westerner, not just German) actually applauded his vocal hatred of Jews and nonwhites. During Hitler's youth in Vienna, riots against Jews were already occurring and the local newspaper was putting slanders against the Jewish community. Even nations who suffered tremendously as a result of Nazi genocidal policy such as Poland and Ukraine had its citizens (who were being sent to camps and starving to death or being experimented in labs,etc) who supported the Nazis simply to kill Jews for the hell of it. The Nazis didn't even approach them, many soldiers in Ukraine happily volunteered to shootdown Jews using Ukrainian resources for a targetting gallery.
If its saying something, Claus Von Stauffenberg, the man who attempted the most famous assassination operation against Hitler, believed Poles were so subhuman they deserved to be enslaved and despised Jews as not being "real Germans". Stauffenberg was actually more left-leaning than most in the Nazi party at the time and he made such statements before he even got affiliated with the Nazis personally.
So this is one thing I am interested in discussing about. I seen so many astrologers pull stuff out of nowhere to spin a natal chart so they match the schoolbook images of celebrity.
A most irritating example is Alexander of Macedonia who many astrologers rectify as having Aries Ascendant. We don't even know his birthday yet already astrologers had done rectification with a sure opinion, pointing out to his warmongering nature and aggressive personality that is prone to starting fights among his comrades and creating accidents like a fire that burned down a palace.
Thing is Alexander was the heir to the throne of a nation already known for its warlike tendencies. His father, Philip (who is praised as being a far more restrained man than Alexander was) spent his whole life fighting to unite Greece and even expected Alexander to increase his empire's territory. He would have been proud of all what Alexander accomplished in his life.
This is not even adding that Macedonia was situated in a rocky region where one had to be hardened merely to survive the environment and to add to the hassle intrusion from random warlike nomadic tribes were common. Every noble was expected to be hardened in war by the time they reach their late 20s and the nation was known for its citizenry who were among the finest citizen armies in Greece.
Even Greece as a whole was a warlike civilization. For Christ's sake, one of their most sacred religious celebration was the Olympics, an athletic contest often featuring sports heavily entwined with fighting such as javelin throwing. Ancient Athens, the most scholarly of the Greek cities, had a citizenship fit enough to march for miles in full armor and sports was considered an essential thing in a young Athenian man's education. Even the famous philosophers like Socrates were known to wrestle in the gyms and had fought in several battles in their life time.
When we take it all into account, Alexander's warmongering nature was a standard trait in the culture he was raised in so to automatically go with Aries ascendant is a slap in the face against that reality.
I really think astrologers are doing a terrible job by studying a chart in its isolation. When one studies celebrities like Hitler and George Washington, we must look at the standards of the time period and culture they were raised in.
The most famous example of course is Adolf Hitler who many astrologers repeatedly try to rectify his chart into Scorpio ascendant or if they use the Libra Asc chart, they try to nitpick specific placements like Saturn in 10th house as proof of his hatred towards foreigners and tendencies to blame foreigners for all his problems. Ignoring that millions of Germans in his time were doing the same and had been done so for centuries before Hitler was even born as seen in the mass riots against Jews in the Medieval Ages (who were not considered Germans but foreign outsiders; in some riots not even as humans but as children of Satan).
Just like Hitler shows, despite his portrayal as a sadistic heartless psychopath in modern media, there was nothing wrong with his racist dogmas back int he 30s and most Germans would have eagerly accepted his views of killing Jews even if it were espoused by some random nobody. The fact Hitler used resources to save some Jews he considered friends is enough to contradict giving Scorpio as his Ascendant.
To use another relatively recent example, for years people considered Megan Fox Scorpio Ascendant. When it was recently revealed by MEGAN FOX HERSELF that she was Leo ascendant, not Scorpio, in this site people began to try to rectify her chart as Scorpio Asc, saying her birth time was wrong, or even point out her facial features as being Scorpionic, not Leonine. You can find the whole thread in the link below.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65273
Those who conceded the possibility of Megan being Leo then tried to point out at that she probably has Ascendant square Mars (despite the fact Megan didn't even reveal her full natal chart yet publicly at least at the time the discussion was happening).
I don't follow Megan Fox well enough to make a comment about her natal chart but she is a recent and legitimate example of how astrologers make assumption about celebrities despite not actually even reading a single biography summarizing her basic life story.
To use just as big an example is Osama Bin Ladin. We don't even know his true birth time as many biographers and CIA sources put contradicting information and we have yet to discover a birth certificate or see relatives admit his birth time. Not helping is the fact that the Islamic Calendar uses different months and dates from the Western Calendar.
Yet people are quick to point out that he is a Pisces Sun despite the fact we don't even have reliable information of what year he is born nevermind what month. All this is pointing to the fact that he "led" a holy war against the west and was a religious leader of Islam.
UUUUUHHHHHH Osama Bin Ladin was NOT AN IMAM (Islam's equivalent of priesthood). He never even studied in an Islamic university nor has witnesses admit another Imam tutored him in the ways of Islam. He doesn't even shown to have true understanding of Islam, all he's done before his death is cherrypick from the Koran verses to inspire the poor Arabs to fight the Westerners (but he completely ignored any quotes about peace or charity to the poor or fighting corruption in society).
Bin Ladin hasn't even been verified among Afghani Mujahedeen sources to have even step foot in Afghanistan; most Mujahedeen (including former leaders of the Taliban who really liked Bin Ladin) all state Bin Ladin was at best their main supplier of weapons but he has never actually been in a fire fight with the Soviets and it wouldn't surprise me if he never even shot an American soldier before.
This is not even counting that the country Bin Laden was born in is a THOECRACY that bans non Muslims from entering without a work visa and is so puritanical that one can go to jail for not attending the weekly Mosque meetings without a specific license and the local Saudi police is known to persecute even non-Muslim foreigners who got the necessary visas to enter the country.
The whole argument is automatically mute because we don't have his birth date but Bin Ladin is probably the best modern historical figure who exemplifies the cherrypicking by astrologers. Not only have they ignored the culture Bin Laden came from but they even ignore that Bin Laden is only one leader in the Islamic terrorism and there are many leaders who are arguably more fitting for a "Pisces Sun" chart.
What do you think?