sibylline
Well-known member
I'm not offended, why would I be?
Have you had bad experiences with Pisceans lying to you? Or is it based on theory? I'm surprised Pisces is the winner, over, for example, Gemini.
Mars in Pisces
- Thread starter LovelyMissAries
- Start date
I'm not offended, why would I be?
Have you had bad experiences with Pisceans lying to you? Or is it based on theory? I'm surprised Pisces is the winner, over, for example, Gemini.
LovelyMissAries
Well-known member
Actually I did know a Mars in Pisces (Cancer Sun that was trine Pluto) who was a TERRIBLE liar. Like, pathological.) and two other Cancer / Pisces people who were the same way. Each mutable has their own way of disguise / deception though. I used to lie all the time and I have Gem ASC, Mars in Gem.
anjelik
Well-known member
I'm a Pisces Sun with a Gemini Moon and I would never tell a bold face lie, but I am really good at mirroring other people and picking up on social cues so it is almost a form of deception in a way because I can give an impression that I am a certain way just to suit a social audience or situation.
As someone married to someone with a ton of Piscean energy, I do think that it is a sign that is prone to deception, but not out of malice, just out of pure self-interest. I find it interesting that Pisces is deemed the sign of the martyr, but they will consciously or possibly subconsciously bend the truth in order to suit their own needs.
LovelyMissAries
Well-known member
How does someone subconsciously bend the truth? I need an example to understand what you mean.
anjelik
Well-known member
I think that they don't think they are lying, so they do it out of habit or self-interest. It's not premeditated or with malice - I think they just do it out of selfishness. I think a lot of people distort the truth out of sheer habit or to protect their own interests.
You calling me a liar?!?!?
Not that I would care. I've been studying astrology long enough to hear the many views people have of Pisces and I find it all very interesting.
Based on following posts, it seems people say it isn't that Pisces is deceitful but that it can be. So my question is if it's that Pisces energy can tend to deceit, can't any? Or is there something about Pisces energy that makes it more prone and in a hierarchy of deception would Pisces be at the top?
I think all signs have the ability to be deceitful,
But this OP was a specific question about whether a Mars in Pisces individual MIGHT be lying to her. And if Mars in Pisces energy can be like that.
In my experience, Mars in Pisces individuals CAN be evasive and somewhat dishonest in order to get what they desire. I have seen it with a couple of close friends.
One man is the ex husband of my cousin. He used to take off his wedding ring when he went out with his friends. And when caught, he said it was NOT because he wanted to cheat, he just liked pretending he was single.
He claimed he was not LYING to anyone. He just omitted the ring. LOL I don't know if he did cheat on her. But he did 'omit' the facts several times. He spent a lot of money on things for himself and lied to her. He would max out their cards and she owed half of that debt for his personal 'fun' like going to Vegas with his friends.
OBVIOUSLY there was more to it than just his Mars. But the Mars was squaring other mutable planets so Pisces was in the mix.
That is a tough question, about whether Pisces is more prone to deception that others. I don't know how to compile such stats. LOL
I will say however, that the many Pisces that I know closely and fondly and with great love and affection, all seem to have an ability to 'deny' certain things to themselves. To shield themselves, perhaps, from some ugly truths. Eventually many come to terms with the reality of certain circumstances. But there is an innate ability to let certain things slide and be ignored. And I think that is a form of self deception perhaps?
My Pisces Mom always loves to paint others in the best possible light. She sees the best in everyone, especially her kids and grandkids. I don't think that is dishonest at all. But I am not sure how accurate it is.
I think that some Pisces like to 'go with the flow.' They like to be emotionally connected to those they are relating to in a personal situation. And so they tend to empathize and agree with what the person is saying at the time. And that gives others the feeling that the Pisces is fully in their corner.
But then later, another friend, who may be in conflict with the other one, may also be hanging with the Pisces, and confiding in them. And now that friend feels that Pisces is in their camp and on their side. \\
And I don't think Pisces is lying or being deceitful at all. I think they just like to commiserate, bond, emotionally connect with people. But they often end up in the middle of others conflicts and can be called out for being two-faced. But I don't think they really are.
LovelyMissAries
Well-known member
Also to tag on Sibylline's question - whats deceitful from a Pisces (or any sogn really) to an Aries may be better understood and accepted by, for a wild example, a Capricorn or something.
HarmonE
Well-known member
Ive been watching this thread for a while....I think its time to weigh in. My Mars is in Pisces and am not a deceitful person. I know that is easy to say but I am not a person who will speak or act contrary to what I believe is true. Some of the ideas around what is lying has already been explored in this discussion. The examples that the original post cited were in my opinion lies. Same with the ring omitting story. For me that's a lie.
I happen to have a lot of mutable energy in my chart and so I am familiar with it. I think for some that don't understand it well it can seem like it is being untruthful. For those that have a fixed way of feeling or thinking it can look like a mutable person is being 'evasive' or 'dishonest'. To me, there are just so many great options, how do you choose just one!!
I think my mars in Pisces gives me an ability to do a lot of different things. I think it gives me empathy and that is helpful as there isn't a whole lot of water in my chart. I think its the part of me that fights for the underdog. For as long as I can remember this has been a part of me.
I tend to see the traditional rulerships more than the modern ones. I think Pisces is more influenced by Jupiter than it is by Neptune. I suppose if you are more inclined to see the Neptune I would understand why you might see dishonesty or a sense of delusion with oneself. My Dad is a Pisces Sun (mercury as well) and there isn't a Neptunian bone in his body. He is the most absolute person I have ever met, not deceitful or even all that imaginative. But he is most definitely ruled by his morals (Jupiter). Maybe some people are more prone to being ruled by traditional rulerships and others to the modern.
LovelyMissAries
Well-known member
"This doesn't apply to me!" shouldn't negate other people's perceptions and experiences as similarly mine shouldn't dictate what *you* or anybody thinks of Mars in Pisces. I apologize for using you as an example HarmonE, however it's anecdotal.
So, when I read this section it immediately resonated. Good point about "fixed" vs. mutable energy. I'm triple Aries, with a Taurus moon, and tons of Aquarian influence being that my Aries stellium is in the 11H. My Moon is trine Saturn which may not add to the fixed quality but definitely anchors it down. This is probably the nail on the head why I see Pisces as dishonest. Even though my best friend is the best person and I trust her incredibly among anyone else, she's a Taurus Sun with Pisces Moon, Mercury in Gemini, Venus in Gemini. When those muteables show - I get suspicious. When you deconstruct an argument it gets down to either this OR that, and THAT is where I speak from most of the time. No fluff.
I wasn't out to vilify Mars in Pisces, but because I only mentioned lying I think many members took it that way. As an Aries with Mars in the 12th - it's good to know you're fighting for the underdog too.
I was "raised" on Neptune, but since practicing Horary have come to relate Jupiter to Pisces too. Either have pros and cons, but yes whenever Neptune has been apart of my life it usually hasn't been a positive experience. Ultimately though you're saying to look at the whole chart - I assume there's something in your and your dad's chart which could explain morality. I posted the chart I was dissecting but all of us got swept up in this discussion about lying instead.
HarmonE
Well-known member
Absolutely, totally agree. I was just sharing my experience, not trying to negate yours.
Ok...maybe I missed the intention of the thread then. I thought it was a general discussion around wether this particular placement could explain someones lying nature on its own or did it have to have other placements or aspects.
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LovelyMissAries
Well-known member
I understand!
It is, but then people started calling for the chart and I posted it and "the people" forgot about the chart except for Sibylline.
Frisiangal
Well-known member
Mmmmmm......posts #29, 41, 46 and 54 ?????
Admittedly, the remarks were 'general' rather than personally specific. Something about the ethics of posting and discussing a chart without the owner's knowledge and permission?
Feisty!
Always in for a good and debatable discussion.....argument???
LovelyMissAries
Well-known member
Whoops, my bad.
Who said I didn't have their permission? Not only do I, but I will actuallly (hopefully) have a correct birth time when I see them next week.
Feisty!
Always in for a good and debatable discussion.....argument???
Hey! I didn't choose arguing about this, it chose me! ��
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sibylline
Well-known member
And Mercury square Neptune.
I'm the same way. I think if the Pisces-influenced people here on this forum can be honest, then shouldn't we give other Pisces types the benefit of the doubt?
Just based on experience.
I will say however, that the many Pisces that I know closely and fondly and with great love and affection, all seem to have an ability to 'deny' certain things to themselves. To shield themselves, perhaps, from some ugly truths. Eventually many come to terms with the reality of certain circumstances. But there is an innate ability to let certain things slide and be ignored. And I think that is a form of self deception perhaps?
My Pisces Mom always loves to paint others in the best possible light. She sees the best in everyone, especially her kids and grandkids. I don't think that is dishonest at all. But I am not sure how accurate it is.
I think some of the more mutable Pisces can be this way. They go with the flow and smell the roses along the way. Other Pisceans still appear to be this way because they don't focus on the negative aspects of life or people. This gives the impression that they are naive to them, which couldn't be further from the truth.
I have a lot of mutable energy also (and a lot of fixed...) and this sort of mindset is one of my biggest pet peeves. It seems some people with it can be fairly lacking in integrity (not saying you do).
LovelyMissAries
Well-known member
Agreed agreed. I get not dwelling on negatives (draining), but am impressed / baffled at how Pisces energy will seemingly ignore obvious red flags. Maybe it's my upbringing or mayve my Virgo SN but the "red flags" perisist and nag me like "This'll eventually be a detriment to you." "This is unfair..." "OH GOD IT'S A PROBLEM NOW, I TOLD YOU!" ...ya know?
sibylline
Well-known member
Red flags in terms of situations or people or both? I can only speak for myself (and maybe whisper for other Pisceans I know well) but I rarely miss red flags. Re: people, sometimes I forgive those close to me and I don't announce it like, "I forgive you for [wrongdoing]!!!" So from the outside looking in it may seem like I missed it, but it was cataloged.
HarmonE
Well-known member
Originally Posted by HarmonE
I happen to have a lot of mutable energy in my chart and so I am familiar with it. I think for some that don't understand it well it can seem like it is being untruthful. For those that have a fixed way of feeling or thinking it can look like a mutable person is being 'evasive' or 'dishonest'. To me, there are just so many great options, how do you choose just one!!
The last statement about not being able to choose just one option was meant to be bit cheeky and not super literal. I am able to make decisions and have definite values that guide me. I was really just trying to illustrate that there is a difference between seeing a lot of options and lying.
Lets just say that I am out shopping with a friend and they want my opinion on some clothes they are trying on. If I don't like either of the items and say that I do, that is lying. But lets say I like them both and then they ask which one that I like best, I might be challenged because I think "both are great, hard to choose. I like the one for the colour but the other is a better fit". I'm not lying because I really do feel that they are both good and so..... I just think, buy them both!!
I happen to have a lot of mutable energy in my chart and so I am familiar with it. I think for some that don't understand it well it can seem like it is being untruthful. For those that have a fixed way of feeling or thinking it can look like a mutable person is being 'evasive' or 'dishonest'. To me, there are just so many great options, how do you choose just one!!
The last statement about not being able to choose just one option was meant to be bit cheeky and not super literal. I am able to make decisions and have definite values that guide me. I was really just trying to illustrate that there is a difference between seeing a lot of options and lying.
Lets just say that I am out shopping with a friend and they want my opinion on some clothes they are trying on. If I don't like either of the items and say that I do, that is lying. But lets say I like them both and then they ask which one that I like best, I might be challenged because I think "both are great, hard to choose. I like the one for the colour but the other is a better fit". I'm not lying because I really do feel that they are both good and so..... I just think, buy them both!!
waybread
Well-known member
Re: Point of Departure
Well, yeah. Go back to Ptolemy and get a big eyeful.
Which is why I practice modern astrology, not the doomy, gloomy edition of traditional astrology. I just don't find labeling ordinary, everyday people as crummy human beings to be particularly helpful.
But note that in both cases, it depends upon how Mars is situated. A well-situated Mars confers courage, forthrightness, and military honours. In traditional astrology, Pisces is ruled by only the Great Benefic, Jupiter, not by Neptune.
Well, yeah. Go back to Ptolemy and get a big eyeful.
Which is why I practice modern astrology, not the doomy, gloomy edition of traditional astrology. I just don't find labeling ordinary, everyday people as crummy human beings to be particularly helpful.
But note that in both cases, it depends upon how Mars is situated. A well-situated Mars confers courage, forthrightness, and military honours. In traditional astrology, Pisces is ruled by only the Great Benefic, Jupiter, not by Neptune.