Lack of emotional awareness

I am struggling with understanding what describes in the chart of a person the lack of emotional awareness.
By emotional awareness I mean the incapability or difficulty of recognizing, handling and defining own emotions and also the difficulty of being sympathetic or emphatic with others.
This emotional problem is also defined by a difficulty of creating or sensing emotional connections.
I know that the lack of water in a chart or Moon in 12th house might be the answer to this question, but what other factors in a natal chart can describe this ?

Your struggle is because the situation is complicated. Lack of emotional awareness is not something very specific, because external factors are not calculated in this vision. This illness is also very complex, but it sounds like Moon-Saturn afflictions.
Carlos

I believe it must be something it can be responsible with this particular situation, like all of our personal traits and psychological layers.
I find this situation odd, since besides what I've mentioned in my initial post, I can't think of other aspects or placements that can lead to that, so I am curious.

What about Moon/Neptune hard aspects ?

There is a difference between being emotionally distant or unaware and another deeper affliction of actual narcissistic personality disorder. There is much info about NPD available online. This manifests as a seeming lack of empathy and a focus only on own's own emotional needs. I assume you are not asking about this type of extreme disorder?

I see the pattern you are asking about in chart s that rare very heavy in Air element. Aquarius being most prone especially a Moon in Aquarius. Also a chart heavy in Air along with Saggitarius prominent can do this too as these are the signs that seem to avoid negative emotions and therefore can do so much repressing and avoiding and denying that it becomes habitual. Air sign people often see their emotions as annoyances and can even be frigthened by them. The emotional world operates by different rules and principles than the rational world so they are often mystified by their own emotions.

A moon Neptune aspect creates idealism which also can cause one to not want to face harsh realities . Can create emotional confusion or a sense of being overwhelmed by emotion. And it makes for a very sensitive emotional nature which can cause the person to learn to repress and deny. I once knew someone with Moon conjunct Pluto who was pretty unaware of his own emotional states. But the signs could make for something like what you describe. For instance a Neptune in Saggy opposite Moon in Gemini could make for what you describe if other chart influences support it.

But generally I think all of us start out this way in childhood to some degree and have to learn to be attentive and aware emotionally.

So if chart showed a combination of these aspects it could very well make for a person who is emotionally unaware.

I have to ask Heidy, is your moon in a water sign? Watery moons tend to act like psychic sponges. A person with a watery chart more or less dwells in a world in which emotions are very real (to paraphrase Steven Arroyo.)

And we're not all like that. As an Aquarian sun-Mercury-Venus with only one planet in water (Mars) I have a perfect dread of someone trying to emotionally suffocate me. We Aquarians truly need our emotional space. So would an Aries or Gemini sort of person. I do try to be sensitive with other people, but this comes more from observation of their behaviour, rather than some innate capacity to intuit what they're feeling.

Just because Aquarians don't want some hyper-Scorpio or moody Cancer to manipulate them emotionally doesn't mean Aquarians are emotionally infantile. It means our emotions work through the air element and a Saturn-Uranus influence.

I've known several people with the moon in Aquarius. Although I never found them to be very sensitive towards me, they always seemed to have lots of friends.

Frankly, women since time immemorial have been criticizing the men they care about for being emotionally insensitive, cold, aloof, uncaring, and so on. Calling the Ice Man emotionally unaware or insensitive only drives him away further.

So I would recommend just giving up trying to engage these guys emotionally as a bad job. They do feel things, but are often socialized not to display emotions; or they may have a chart that simply has very little water in it.

thelivingsky said:

There is a difference between being emotionally distant or unaware and another deeper affliction of actual narcissistic personality disorder. There is much info about NPD available online. This manifests as a seeming lack of empathy and a focus only on own's own emotional needs. I assume you are not asking about this type of extreme disorder?

I see the pattern you are asking about in chart s that rare very heavy in Air element. Aquarius being most prone especially a Moon in Aquarius. Also a chart heavy in Air along with Saggitarius prominent can do this too as these are the signs that seem to avoid negative emotions and therefore can do so much repressing and avoiding and denying that it becomes habitual. Air sign people often see their emotions as annoyances and can even be frigthened by them. The emotional world operates by different rules and principles than the rational world so they are often mystified by their own emotions.

A moon Neptune aspect creates idealism which also can cause one to not want to face harsh realities . Can create emotional confusion or a sense of being overwhelmed by emotion. And it makes for a very sensitive emotional nature which can cause the person to learn to repress and deny. I once knew someone with Moon conjunct Pluto who was pretty unaware of his own emotional states. But the signs could make for something like what you describe. For instance a Neptune in Saggy opposite Moon in Gemini could make for what you describe if other chart influences support it.

But generally I think all of us start out this way in childhood to some degree and have to learn to be attentive and aware emotionally.

So if chart showed a combination of these aspects it could very well make for a person who is emotionally unaware.

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I'm interested in this subject because I see a pattern in people I know.
The chart I am talking about is filled with Fire, has Moon and MC in Air sign and 2 planets and DC in water.
Moon squares Neptune in Capricorn. Venus/Mars/Sun are in the 12th house.
After hearing the story and observing the behavior, I concluded that this person has a big problem with emotional awareness.

waybread said:

I have to ask Heidy, is your moon in a water sign? Watery moons tend to act like psychic sponges. A person with a watery chart more or less dwells in a world in which emotions are very real (to paraphrase Steven Arroyo.)

And we're not all like that. As an Aquarian sun-Mercury-Venus with only one planet in water (Mars) I have a perfect dread of someone trying to emotionally suffocate me. We Aquarians truly need our emotional space. So would an Aries or Gemini sort of person. I do try to be sensitive with other people, but this comes more from observation of their behaviour, rather than some innate capacity to intuit what they're feeling.

Just because Aquarians don't want some hyper-Scorpio or moody Cancer to manipulate them emotionally doesn't mean Aquarians are emotionally infantile. It means our emotions work through the air element and a Saturn-Uranus influence.

I've known several people with the moon in Aquarius. Although I never found them to be very sensitive towards me, they always seemed to have lots of friends.

Frankly, women since time immemorial have been criticizing the men they care about for being emotionally insensitive, cold, aloof, uncaring, and so on. Calling the Ice Man emotionally unaware or insensitive only drives him away further.

So I would recommend just giving up trying to engage these guys emotionally as a bad job. They do feel things, but are often socialized not to display emotions; or they may have a chart that simply has very little water in it.

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My Moon is not in a watery sign. My Moon is in the 12th house and squares Venus/Pluto in Scorpio. So I know what emotional unawareness is, but I am also very intuitive and emotional.
But I see your point. I am not trying to criticize or make statements about someone's aloof and detached behavior.
I'm talking about someone who never felt love, has a big problem in recognizing own emotions and handling them, has a very low emphatic/compassionate rate.And it is not me who spotted this emotional problem, but the person did.
When I ask this person "What did you feel in x moment?", starts to think and tries to remember what he felt. And thinks for a long time and cannot conclude and describe what he felt.
Friends and people he cares about are also kept to distance from own choice with the line "if I don't feel I should contact/engage with them, I don't". But being emotionally in a fog can't actually make you handle thing correctly, isn't it ?
This is the worst case I have met. I can see a pattern in me and other individuals I know, but never met someone so oblivious.

I want to help this person, but I have to understand the problem, first.

Marinka said:

You're not providing much information as to how the emotional unawareness is manifesting - is it cruel or simply detached?

If it is detached, then look to Uranus and Aquarius in the chart. Uranus tends to provide some coldness or aloofness where it is placed while Aquarius is the sign of the collective/group rather than the individual. Please note that this does not imply that the detachment shown by Aquarius is bad -- their sympathies lie with the group and that is where their passion is.

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You can say it is cruel in regards to the ones that perceive it. Detachment is at full rate, to the point of annihilating own emotions - maybe it is a psychological repression of own emotions steamed out from fear of being hurt.

Uranus widely conjuncts IC and aspects Saturn, MC, Mars. But I don't see this as descriptive for the issue.

Haidy, if you are not a licensed psychologist, I recommend that you tread very, very carefully with this man whom you are trying to help. At best you may indeed be able to help him, but you could simply begin to appear as an intrusive busybody in his life.

If you don't have this man's life history, you don't know why he appears emotionally stunted. He may have deliberately closed off his emotions as a means of coping with considerable pain-- that he is not prepared to discuss with you. You don't want to open up old wounds (if they're present) without having the clinical experience or his permission to conduct a course of therapy.

Has this man actually asked you to counsel him about his emotional state? Or is it mostly your idea that he "needs" to work on his feelings? So far as being in love goes, some late-bloomers do not meet the love of their lives until they are mature adults. That is neither unusual or abnormal.

If you have Venus-Pluto in Scorpio square moon, you are at risk yourself of coming across to others as very controlling, especially if they have more airy or fiery types of charts. Both moon-Pluto and Venus-Pluto people with the square or conjunction are prone to jealousy unless they are extremely self-aware. (I'm not making this up, I just checked my impressions against the entries in Robert Hand, Planets in Youth.) Hand further notes, with Venus conjunct Pluto, that "You hope to transform the conditions of your life through relationships. Thus you feel that every strong emotional attachment is important for your future." (p. 205.)

So it seems extremely important for you to discern what you hope to do for this man to free him up emotionally, and what you are doing basically for the sake of your own emotional needs.

Please trust me that for us more fiery and airy types, emotions are not the be-all and end-all of life. We may take great delight in mental activities or physical activity. When we find each other, we enjoy each other's company while giving one another a lot of space. Which we need and respect in other people.

Have you got this man's horoscope?

One sign that really dislikes talking about itself is Gemini, perhaps because it is so other- and outer-directed. On the other hand, a person with moon conjunct Pluto (Robert Hand here, again) may feel loving attachments so deeply that they have caused considerable pain in his life when they ended, and the last thing he wants to do is re-open those wounds and expose their vulnerability.

Whatever is going on with such people, I think we have to respect their personal boundaries.

Of course, it's possible that you are a licensed therapist and this man is actually your client. If so, I've misspoken.

waybread said:

Haidy, if you are not a licensed psychologist, I recommend that you tread very, very carefully with this man whom you are trying to help. At best you may indeed be able to help him, but you could simply begin to appear as an intrusive busybody in his life.

If you don't have this man's life history, you don't know why he appears emotionally stunted. He may have deliberately closed off his emotions as a means of coping with considerable pain-- that he is not prepared to discuss with you. You don't want to open up old wounds (if they're present) without having the clinical experience or his permission to conduct a course of therapy.

Has this man actually asked you to counsel him about his emotional state? Or is it mostly your idea that he "needs" to work on his feelings? So far as being in love goes, some late-bloomers do not meet the love of their lives until they are mature adults. That is neither unusual or abnormal.

If you have Venus-Pluto in Scorpio square moon, you are at risk yourself of coming across to others as very controlling, especially if they have more airy or fiery types of charts. Both moon-Pluto and Venus-Pluto people with the square or conjunction are prone to jealousy unless they are extremely self-aware. (I'm not making this up, I just checked my impressions against the entries in Robert Hand, Planets in Youth.) Hand further notes, with Venus conjunct Pluto, that "You hope to transform the conditions of your life through relationships. Thus you feel that every strong emotional attachment is important for your future." (p. 205.)

So it seems extremely important for you to discern what you hope to do for this man to free him up emotionally, and what you are doing basically for the sake of your own emotional needs.

Please trust me that for us more fiery and airy types, emotions are not the be-all and end-all of life. We may take great delight in mental activities or physical activity. When we find each other, we enjoy each other's company while giving one another a lot of space. Which we need and respect in other people.

Have you got this man's horoscope?

One sign that really dislikes talking about itself is Gemini, perhaps because it is so other- and outer-directed. On the other hand, a person with moon conjunct Pluto (Robert Hand here, again) may feel loving attachments so deeply that they have caused considerable pain in his life when they ended, and the last thing he wants to do is re-open those wounds and expose their vulnerability.

Whatever is going on with such people, I think we have to respect their personal boundaries.

Of course, it's possible that you are a licensed therapist and this man is actually your client. If so, I've misspoken.

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This man is my friend and I am not licensed in therapy. But he asked me to counsel him emotionally and opened up to me.
I am very prepared in this field, psychology is my passion and I have been studying it since forever.
I do have a big part of his biography - his parents split up before he was born and he really suffered because his father was not with him. His mother was very protective and firm, they argued a lot during his teenager years due to this.
He shut himself to cope with the pain that his father is not present. The relationship with the mother was not that great either, from what I observed he idealized them too much and imagined the parents/their relationship is different than things actually were.
This is a coping mechanism. Not surprising at all, he runs away from things that can make him open up emotionally.
No woman could make him feel love and that is curious. He doesn't even know where his problem steams from. He doesn't even know it's a problem on his side.
He is searching for love at every corner and can't find it because he can't feel it.

Besides the psychological aspects of his problem, I have to try and search for astrological reasons too. It will be much easier to surface the problem.

Heidy,

I tend to agree with Waybread. He clearly has long-standing and significant emotional issues of repression, avoidance and denial. he could also be somewhat autistic. He really should consult with a professional therapist and perhaps commit to therapy to help him reconnect to his feelings or manage his issues. Sometimes when a person is very deeply repressed and then has a breakthrough , they can have a significant mental health episode of panic, hysteria, etc. Best to let a pro work with him if he is looking for help.

Meditation is a wonderful tool for coping with any trauma, with anxiety, or to help release repressed feelings - if done daily. It's great that he has a supportive friend in you that he feels he can open up to even a little. I would be curious to see the whole chart ,but just to view it not for any recommendation I could make.
Barb at thelivingsky.wordpress.com

Heidy, it is good that you have this man's permission to work with him, but "studying psychology since forever" as an amateur doesn't mean that you have qualifications in clinical psychology, counseling, psychotherapy, or psychiatry. Please tread carefully, or you may do more harm than good.

Do you have any kind of formal education or training in dealing with someone in the midst of a nervous breakdown? If people are emotionally walled-off as a self-defense mechanism, exposing them to emotional pain-- that neither they nor you are prepared to deal with appropriately-- can have serious consequences.

If it is personally important to you to counsel such individuals, I hope you will continue your education to become a licensed therapist. This work is not for do-it-yourselfers.

To be fair, not everyone can afford to see a licensed therapist. Just saying...

craft94 said:

To be fair, not everyone can afford to see a licensed therapist. Just saying...

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Most communities here in the U.S have mental health clinics or centers where professionals are available and the fees are adjusted according to one's income. Sometimes there is a wait period to get started. As a practicing astrologer, I think it is important to know about the services that are available in my community just for instances such as this when you clearly have a client who needs more help than I can give.

thelivingsky said:

Most communities here in the U.S have mental health clinics or centers where professionals are available and the fees are adjusted according to one's income. Sometimes there is a wait period to get started. As a practicing astrologer, I think it is important to know about the services that are available in my community just for instances such as this when you clearly have a client who needs more help than I can give.

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Good point. I don't know where Heidy lives, but in US and Canadian cities, one place to start for professional counseling or psychotherapy is with United Way agencies. My husband and I once went through them to avail ourselves of marriage counseling, which turned out to be with Catholic Family Services. You don't have to be Catholic to use them, and they have no religious message for their patrons. They had a sliding payment scale based upon their clients' incomes.

The mental health professions (including social work) in the US and Canada not only require graduate-level academic degrees and board exams, but also a lot of supervised clinical hours, where the trainees have a lot of interaction with clients under the supervision of a senior mental health professional.

In the US and Canada, it is actually illegal to practice clinical psychology without a license. I think this is because, in the past, people with no education in psychology at all could claim professional status, and cause more harm than good. There are other job titles like "life coach" where probably anything goes, but then the client really doesn't know what sort of professional he's getting.

Astrologers have a lot of useful skills, and I think of myself, anyway, as offering friendly "kitchen table advice." But our work goes best when we operate with a lot of humility about the limits to our own capabilities in the face of a vulnerable human being. Once we try to "fix" people we need to tread very, very carefully.

heidy26 said:

I am struggling with understanding what describes in the chart of a person the lack of emotional awareness.
By emotional awareness I mean the incapability or difficulty of recognizing, handling and defining own emotions and also the difficulty of being sympathetic or emphatic with others.
This emotional problem is also defined by a difficulty of creating or sensing emotional connections.
I know that the lack of water in a chart or Moon in 12th house might be the answer to this question, but what other factors in a natal chart can describe this ?

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No, it's not like that. Lack of water in a chart only means lack of depth of of emotions, not lack of emotional awareness per se. And Moon in the 12th are the most empathetic people out there. Lack of emotional awareness is a typical characteristic of the air element which is all about abstractions. One who's extremely heavy on air signs can deal with feelings on a mental level only, not on a visceral level like the other signs do. But it's a complex story and involves many factors in a chart because even if, let's say your Moon is in Aquarius and conjunct Mercury but your 4th House is in a water sign or your ASC and/or Sun are in water signs, that would sorta neutralize it again. So for starters, if this is really an extreme case, then I'd look at the Moon and the water houses if there's an extreme air element influence.

heidy26 said:

This man is my friend and I am not licensed in therapy. But he asked me to counsel him emotionally and opened up to me.
I am very prepared in this field, psychology is my passion and I have been studying it since forever.
I do have a big part of his biography - his parents split up before he was born and he really suffered because his father was not with him. His mother was very protective and firm, they argued a lot during his teenager years due to this.
He shut himself to cope with the pain that his father is not present. The relationship with the mother was not that great either, from what I observed he idealized them too much and imagined the parents/their relationship is different than things actually were.
This is a coping mechanism. Not surprising at all, he runs away from things that can make him open up emotionally.
No woman could make him feel love and that is curious. He doesn't even know where his problem steams from. He doesn't even know it's a problem on his side.
He is searching for love at every corner and can't find it because he can't feel it.

Besides the psychological aspects of his problem, I have to try and search for astrological reasons too. It will be much easier to surface the problem.

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Sounds like the typical Scorpio way of dealing with emotional trauma.

@ waybread/thelivingsky: We don't live in America/Canada. In our country, therapy is just at its beginnings, people here are just opening up to the idea of counseling for the better sake of their life and therapy has not become such an important subject to get it free.
But this is not really the problem. If one wants licensed counseling, one can get it.
I don't believe that license proves your abilities, psychologists are bad at doing their job and good at doing their job, like in any other field. I do have experience in counseling and helping people and I do it as a passion. I will get my license in the future, but this is what I am good at, it's native ability.
This doesn't mean that I disapprove on getting specialized help. By all means, one should get all the help one needs.

@ marinka: I am not taking the astrologer side because I am not only an astrologer. I started studying psychology way before astrology came into scene.
Now that I have good knowledge on astrology too, it helps me more to put pieces of the puzzle together.

@muchacho: Actually, lack of water and Moon in 12th house is lack of emotional awareness, but not all of it. Recognizing and handling own emotions relates to both of them, but this is not the whole definition of lack of emotional awareness.
Moon in 12th house is also profound, while lack of water is responsible with superficiality in emotional field and low compassion/emphatic rate.

Moon in Air sign, yes, can be, but as you said, the Air element is somewhat balanced with the water on angle, a planet in Cancer...but the placements of these elements can show that, too, if, for example, Cancer falls on the 2nd house cusp, Taurus' natural house, can lower the water influence.

You know, you made me aware of something when talked about Scorpios; this person has Sun Square Pluto at 0 degree orb and Mars square Pluto; the square from Mars is wider.

Well, good luck with this Heidy. Just please be careful, and recognize your own limitations and motives. You crave an emotional intensity in your own life that not everybody shares.

I am not trying to make you feel defensive, but I should add that sometimes Junior Psychologists do get "clients" to recall incidents that trigger massive amounts of grief or anger. I had this happen personally with a dear friend who is a reiki practitioner working with her "spirit guides", and I've read many posts by one astrologer who actually tries to provoke his clients to tears.

Although such experiences can seem cathartic at the time to the "client" they can easily lead to subsequent feelings of being emotionally violated. In the days following my own cathartic experience with my friend, I actually began to feel that she had been too intrusive; and while we remain good friends, I never returned for further reiki sessions of this nature. I asked the above-mentioned astrologer how many repeat clients he had, and he didn't respond.

This is where psychological training is important. Professional therapists have had coursework and clinical experience in assisting clients through cathartic experiences, as well as follow-up care to ensure their subsequent well-being.

I also participated for about 12 years in the (former est) Landmark Education programs, one of the human potential organizations specializing in "breakthrough" experiences, and they do a lot of the kind of work that you seem to be attempting. The difference is that their trainers themselves go through rigorous educational programs. Also, they have a practical plan for participants to pursue, following their emotionally painful experiences.

You wrote:

You know, you made me aware of something when talked about Scorpios; this person has Sun Square Pluto at 0 degree orb and Mars square Pluto; the square from Mars is wider.

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These are both really difficult aspects. Sun square Pluto people were often bullied as children and they grow up learning that they cannot trust other people to emotionally support them. They tend to see inter-personal relationships in a "dominate or be dominated" dynamic with winners and losers. Mars square Pluto is such a strong, aggressive energy that it is hard for people to express it constructively. If they can't do this, they are liable to suppress it, but the chart will express itself in some fashion, so they may attract violent people. Understandably, control issues are just huge for such people. They learn as children that vulnerability is dangerous.

One helpful possibility about Mars in the mix (and Mars traditionally rules Scorpio) is to take up some kind of martial art, such as boxing, or really any kind of athletic activity that provides a supportive and structured environment for letting out that suppressed aggression.

Muchacho, just to follow up on your comments, I think any sign is capable of strong feelings. My moon is in Leo in the 11th house but it is broadly conjunct and partile parallel with Pluto. Despite having a chart that is mostly air and fire, I have the capacity to form deep and loyal attachments. Also, thanks to Pluto's ruthless agenda for change and Leo's pride, those attachments get deeply wrenched, on occasion.

What I don't have is a water sign's ability to live life primarily through moods, subjectivity, intuitions, and gut feelings. The rest of us, of course, have these, but not to the same extent. I have a dread of someone trying to emotionally manipulate me. Sun-Aquarian detachment has been a gift in my life.